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	<title>Comments on: Barron&#8217;s: One of Those Aberrational Stock Markets</title>
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	<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2006/10/barrons-one-of-those-aberrational-stock-markets/</link>
	<description>Macro Perspective on the Capital Markets, Economy, Geopolitics, Technology, and Digital Media</description>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2006/10/barrons-one-of-those-aberrational-stock-markets/comment-page-1/#comment-26575</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Oct 2006 08:55:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigpicture.dev.wilder.ca/blog/2006/10/14/barrons-one-of-those-aberrational-stock-markets/#comment-26575</guid>
		<description>Low interest rates? Show me.
Low P/Es? Show me.

Neither of these statements are even remotely true, Cathy, thanks. We have elevated PEs on record earnings and profit margins, both mean reverting series if you care to look. These interest rates are not terribly high compared to the 70s true, but you picked out a straw man there to knock down haven&#039;t you?

&quot;The reason people are ignoring the bearish news is that they have little/no long term consequences. &quot;

TRUE, thanks to the Greenspan Put. But I think you will not like the end to that bit of moral hazard either. It won&#039;t be pretty. Or do you think that it&#039;s now the Feds job to keep asset classes inflated? If so, the flip side to that is $USD devaluation and goodbye to price stability. So far, so good though with the Fed talking tough (&quot;managing inflation expectations&quot;) and flooding the system with money. It works until it doesn&#039;t even if they do give Nobel Prizes for the concept.


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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Low interest rates? Show me.<br />
Low P/Es? Show me.</p>
<p>Neither of these statements are even remotely true, Cathy, thanks. We have elevated PEs on record earnings and profit margins, both mean reverting series if you care to look. These interest rates are not terribly high compared to the 70s true, but you picked out a straw man there to knock down haven&#8217;t you?</p>
<p>&#8220;The reason people are ignoring the bearish news is that they have little/no long term consequences. &#8221;</p>
<p>TRUE, thanks to the Greenspan Put. But I think you will not like the end to that bit of moral hazard either. It won&#8217;t be pretty. Or do you think that it&#8217;s now the Feds job to keep asset classes inflated? If so, the flip side to that is $USD devaluation and goodbye to price stability. So far, so good though with the Fed talking tough (&#8220;managing inflation expectations&#8221;) and flooding the system with money. It works until it doesn&#8217;t even if they do give Nobel Prizes for the concept.</p>
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		<title>By: Cathy</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2006/10/barrons-one-of-those-aberrational-stock-markets/comment-page-1/#comment-26574</link>
		<dc:creator>Cathy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Oct 2006 03:03:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigpicture.dev.wilder.ca/blog/2006/10/14/barrons-one-of-those-aberrational-stock-markets/#comment-26574</guid>
		<description>This site is called The Big Picture, but I am amazed at the number of bears who have  failed  to see it.
The Big Picture is that the US  is enjoying low interest rates and when coupled with a low S&amp;P p/e it shouldn&#039;t be surprising the market is rallying - and likely to go much higher as long as interest rates stay relatively low and there are no major geo/political shocks.
I have seen the argument that p/e&#039;s can go much lower, but I don&#039;t buy it.  The only time p/e ratios were much lower than todays level is when inflation/interest rates are very high.   And the comparison&#039;s I&#039;ve seen to 1972 are ludicrous.  The money supply was out of control, the Fed had no clue what they were doing and there were rampant wage/price spirals.
Who wants to buy long bonds below 5%?  Who wants to speculate on  the housing market right now?
Without reasonable alternative investments the stock market is exceptionally attractive at these levels.
This is the Big Picture to me.  I may be wrong, but I don&#039;t think so.
The reason people are ignoring the bearish news is that they have little/no long term consequences.  Keep your eye only on inflation - if that starts moving higher that&#039;s when you&#039;ll get a major correction, not before.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This site is called The Big Picture, but I am amazed at the number of bears who have  failed  to see it.<br />
The Big Picture is that the US  is enjoying low interest rates and when coupled with a low S&#038;P p/e it shouldn&#8217;t be surprising the market is rallying &#8211; and likely to go much higher as long as interest rates stay relatively low and there are no major geo/political shocks.<br />
I have seen the argument that p/e&#8217;s can go much lower, but I don&#8217;t buy it.  The only time p/e ratios were much lower than todays level is when inflation/interest rates are very high.   And the comparison&#8217;s I&#8217;ve seen to 1972 are ludicrous.  The money supply was out of control, the Fed had no clue what they were doing and there were rampant wage/price spirals.<br />
Who wants to buy long bonds below 5%?  Who wants to speculate on  the housing market right now?<br />
Without reasonable alternative investments the stock market is exceptionally attractive at these levels.<br />
This is the Big Picture to me.  I may be wrong, but I don&#8217;t think so.<br />
The reason people are ignoring the bearish news is that they have little/no long term consequences.  Keep your eye only on inflation &#8211; if that starts moving higher that&#8217;s when you&#8217;ll get a major correction, not before.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2006/10/barrons-one-of-those-aberrational-stock-markets/comment-page-1/#comment-26573</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Oct 2006 23:59:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigpicture.dev.wilder.ca/blog/2006/10/14/barrons-one-of-those-aberrational-stock-markets/#comment-26573</guid>
		<description>DavidB-

Thanks for the tip. Nice unique handle you have.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DavidB-</p>
<p>Thanks for the tip. Nice unique handle you have.</p>
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		<title>By: Mick</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2006/10/barrons-one-of-those-aberrational-stock-markets/comment-page-1/#comment-26572</link>
		<dc:creator>Mick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Oct 2006 21:54:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigpicture.dev.wilder.ca/blog/2006/10/14/barrons-one-of-those-aberrational-stock-markets/#comment-26572</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s always easy to make the bearish case. Lots of negative facts around at any one time !
Ken Fischer (btw, I do not like or endorse his firm) has been one who publicly projected this bull market. Based on what ? Mostly fundamentally strong economic growth worldwide.
What a concept: since when does the market reflect the real world ?
This cannot possibly last for long.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s always easy to make the bearish case. Lots of negative facts around at any one time !<br />
Ken Fischer (btw, I do not like or endorse his firm) has been one who publicly projected this bull market. Based on what ? Mostly fundamentally strong economic growth worldwide.<br />
What a concept: since when does the market reflect the real world ?<br />
This cannot possibly last for long.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2006/10/barrons-one-of-those-aberrational-stock-markets/comment-page-1/#comment-26571</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Oct 2006 18:59:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigpicture.dev.wilder.ca/blog/2006/10/14/barrons-one-of-those-aberrational-stock-markets/#comment-26571</guid>
		<description>The big money managers and Wall St firms have been taking the indexes for a ride since the lows of summer ... it seems they are pressing hard until most are bullish and then the rug gets pulled out ... and down we go.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The big money managers and Wall St firms have been taking the indexes for a ride since the lows of summer &#8230; it seems they are pressing hard until most are bullish and then the rug gets pulled out &#8230; and down we go.</p>
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		<title>By: DavidB</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2006/10/barrons-one-of-those-aberrational-stock-markets/comment-page-1/#comment-26570</link>
		<dc:creator>DavidB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Oct 2006 18:10:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigpicture.dev.wilder.ca/blog/2006/10/14/barrons-one-of-those-aberrational-stock-markets/#comment-26570</guid>
		<description>The way I see it there are three scenarios that can happen. The bubble can keep on growing. That would happen if the fed(and other CB&#039;s of course) continues to print money faster than what the economy can reasonably absorb it. That will result in a pop at some time. I don&#039;t think the fed is interested in this option for obvious reasons

The bubble can also be rapidly popped now by a reduction in the money supply. For even more obvious reasons this won&#039;t happen either.

The third option, which is what is currently happening I believe, is the fed will continue to attempt to print money at a rate that will conitnue to support the economy while we work our way out of this bubble. I am assuming that rate of money supply growth is between 2% and 8%. This is in the best interest of the fed and seems like their only alternative

Theoretically there will be a rate of growth that can deflate the bubble slowly without causing a panic. Do I believe the fed can find it? I believe they are bending their will in that direction and I don&#039;t think the problem is as complicated as everyone would have us believe. I don&#039;t think this is a dynamic problem but a static one. The problem is finding the ideal rate which is what the people at the fed are paid to do
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The way I see it there are three scenarios that can happen. The bubble can keep on growing. That would happen if the fed(and other CB&#8217;s of course) continues to print money faster than what the economy can reasonably absorb it. That will result in a pop at some time. I don&#8217;t think the fed is interested in this option for obvious reasons</p>
<p>The bubble can also be rapidly popped now by a reduction in the money supply. For even more obvious reasons this won&#8217;t happen either.</p>
<p>The third option, which is what is currently happening I believe, is the fed will continue to attempt to print money at a rate that will conitnue to support the economy while we work our way out of this bubble. I am assuming that rate of money supply growth is between 2% and 8%. This is in the best interest of the fed and seems like their only alternative</p>
<p>Theoretically there will be a rate of growth that can deflate the bubble slowly without causing a panic. Do I believe the fed can find it? I believe they are bending their will in that direction and I don&#8217;t think the problem is as complicated as everyone would have us believe. I don&#8217;t think this is a dynamic problem but a static one. The problem is finding the ideal rate which is what the people at the fed are paid to do</p>
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		<title>By: teddy</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2006/10/barrons-one-of-those-aberrational-stock-markets/comment-page-1/#comment-26569</link>
		<dc:creator>teddy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Oct 2006 16:56:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigpicture.dev.wilder.ca/blog/2006/10/14/barrons-one-of-those-aberrational-stock-markets/#comment-26569</guid>
		<description>DavidB, I agree with your microeconomic view which deals with generalities that we all espouse, but you are missing my point about money supply and concentration of wealth. This is a huge factor in the world of macroeconomics right now, not only in this country, but elsewhere. This is the new paradigm which demands asset inflation to keep the worldwide financial bubble from bursting and whose basic premise is suspect except on computer programs using highly sophisticated mathematical formulas.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DavidB, I agree with your microeconomic view which deals with generalities that we all espouse, but you are missing my point about money supply and concentration of wealth. This is a huge factor in the world of macroeconomics right now, not only in this country, but elsewhere. This is the new paradigm which demands asset inflation to keep the worldwide financial bubble from bursting and whose basic premise is suspect except on computer programs using highly sophisticated mathematical formulas.</p>
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		<title>By: DavidB</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2006/10/barrons-one-of-those-aberrational-stock-markets/comment-page-1/#comment-26568</link>
		<dc:creator>DavidB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Oct 2006 14:03:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigpicture.dev.wilder.ca/blog/2006/10/14/barrons-one-of-those-aberrational-stock-markets/#comment-26568</guid>
		<description>First off, Alexd,

you are welcome. I first got that link from a poster on this blog a  while back so I am now returning the favor.

Secondly, Mark,

you should add a little uniqueness to your posting handle. At least that way it is more evidential that you are being copied

and finally, Teddy,

Has the concentration of wealth caused a discernable change in the markets? I would love to see if there is data on that. All I know is that good buys are still good buys and that the big boys dis them until they have loaded up their pockets. Then suddenly the dog is a beautiful thing again. Nothing has changed much. If anything the game is just a little quicker and more efficient these days.

If you&#039;re sharp the game is still there because that&#039;s how they like to play it. You also can&#039;t rule out the human element. One of my favorite trades is identifying quality management that is outperforming their peers or the economy. I believe that character and style tend to be consistent and it will show up in the way a CEO manages his company both on the good side &lt;i&gt;and&lt;/i&gt; the bad side.

Those things can only be determined over longer periods and by the time a manager has built up a track record of consistent performance he has won the job until he no longer wants it. Thus he will probably perpetuate his performance going forward

Also, the big boys can&#039;t easily get into the small plays without causing major distruption to the price. That gives the smaller player a huge market to play in that the big boys won&#039;t touch until we deliver it up to them in size

As for the Fed and the money supply, we are not talking about micro moves here but the fed is working very hard behind the scenes to influence the general direction and the general direction they seem to be aiming for is a slow motion devalutation of people&#039;s savings and dollars over time. I haven&#039;t seen any evidence that this has changed at all with globalization. The reason for this is because the other economies of the world are also governed by central banks and fractional reserve banking systems and those banks are following the same basic game plan as the fed.

What they do is systemic and there is no significant financial destination that you can go in the world where the game is any different. You could read the minutes  and money supply figures from other CB&#039;s I suppose but that is like trying to get a different spin on the news from two different sources in the main stream media....especially when it comes down to the bottom line issues. They are all on the same team and we are the (willing?) pawns in their game. They want (relatively) satiated pawns though, it keeps us quiet that way
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First off, Alexd,</p>
<p>you are welcome. I first got that link from a poster on this blog a  while back so I am now returning the favor.</p>
<p>Secondly, Mark,</p>
<p>you should add a little uniqueness to your posting handle. At least that way it is more evidential that you are being copied</p>
<p>and finally, Teddy,</p>
<p>Has the concentration of wealth caused a discernable change in the markets? I would love to see if there is data on that. All I know is that good buys are still good buys and that the big boys dis them until they have loaded up their pockets. Then suddenly the dog is a beautiful thing again. Nothing has changed much. If anything the game is just a little quicker and more efficient these days.</p>
<p>If you&#8217;re sharp the game is still there because that&#8217;s how they like to play it. You also can&#8217;t rule out the human element. One of my favorite trades is identifying quality management that is outperforming their peers or the economy. I believe that character and style tend to be consistent and it will show up in the way a CEO manages his company both on the good side <i>and</i> the bad side.</p>
<p>Those things can only be determined over longer periods and by the time a manager has built up a track record of consistent performance he has won the job until he no longer wants it. Thus he will probably perpetuate his performance going forward</p>
<p>Also, the big boys can&#8217;t easily get into the small plays without causing major distruption to the price. That gives the smaller player a huge market to play in that the big boys won&#8217;t touch until we deliver it up to them in size</p>
<p>As for the Fed and the money supply, we are not talking about micro moves here but the fed is working very hard behind the scenes to influence the general direction and the general direction they seem to be aiming for is a slow motion devalutation of people&#8217;s savings and dollars over time. I haven&#8217;t seen any evidence that this has changed at all with globalization. The reason for this is because the other economies of the world are also governed by central banks and fractional reserve banking systems and those banks are following the same basic game plan as the fed.</p>
<p>What they do is systemic and there is no significant financial destination that you can go in the world where the game is any different. You could read the minutes  and money supply figures from other CB&#8217;s I suppose but that is like trying to get a different spin on the news from two different sources in the main stream media&#8230;.especially when it comes down to the bottom line issues. They are all on the same team and we are the (willing?) pawns in their game. They want (relatively) satiated pawns though, it keeps us quiet that way</p>
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		<title>By: alexd</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2006/10/barrons-one-of-those-aberrational-stock-markets/comment-page-1/#comment-26567</link>
		<dc:creator>alexd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Oct 2006 12:36:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigpicture.dev.wilder.ca/blog/2006/10/14/barrons-one-of-those-aberrational-stock-markets/#comment-26567</guid>
		<description>First a big thank you to David B on the m3 site.

Does anyone here ever look at any market besides the US stock market and that, in the most general terms?

Is this a reflection of the shortsightedness that many Americans (assuming you are from the USA, apologies to those who are not) seem to have? I am seeing a pickup in other economies and markets. Although we are a very big market when I look at he world in terms of regions I see major markets along with sub markets.

Let me share: Although there is always work to be done, the USA/Europe has quite the developed physical infrastructure. From what I have read ( If anyone wants me to travel on their dime to investigate please contact me!) many other countries and regions need to build up their infrastructures. This relates to demand. I think we need to get in between source and demand and filter out our take. MMMMMMM cement,mmmm zinc, mmmmm technologies, mmmmm you get the idea.

Any one here ever think about how cell phone technologies has allowed areas of the so called 3rd world to bypass all that wiring with &quot;cell&quot; phones? All of a sudden millions of lbs of human brains get to reach out to each other over vast silences. Think they are not going to talk about their concerns to each other? The rate of change itself, is increasing. Lets make sure we are not applying 19th century ideas to 21st century situations.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First a big thank you to David B on the m3 site.</p>
<p>Does anyone here ever look at any market besides the US stock market and that, in the most general terms?</p>
<p>Is this a reflection of the shortsightedness that many Americans (assuming you are from the USA, apologies to those who are not) seem to have? I am seeing a pickup in other economies and markets. Although we are a very big market when I look at he world in terms of regions I see major markets along with sub markets.</p>
<p>Let me share: Although there is always work to be done, the USA/Europe has quite the developed physical infrastructure. From what I have read ( If anyone wants me to travel on their dime to investigate please contact me!) many other countries and regions need to build up their infrastructures. This relates to demand. I think we need to get in between source and demand and filter out our take. MMMMMMM cement,mmmm zinc, mmmmm technologies, mmmmm you get the idea.</p>
<p>Any one here ever think about how cell phone technologies has allowed areas of the so called 3rd world to bypass all that wiring with &#8220;cell&#8221; phones? All of a sudden millions of lbs of human brains get to reach out to each other over vast silences. Think they are not going to talk about their concerns to each other? The rate of change itself, is increasing. Lets make sure we are not applying 19th century ideas to 21st century situations.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2006/10/barrons-one-of-those-aberrational-stock-markets/comment-page-1/#comment-26566</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Oct 2006 10:59:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigpicture.dev.wilder.ca/blog/2006/10/14/barrons-one-of-those-aberrational-stock-markets/#comment-26566</guid>
		<description>Gee, ANOTHER &quot;Mark&quot; is posting here! At least it is giving yet another (fourth I&#039;ve seen in a week) email address. Barry, I do not know the reason for what is going on but could you have your admin see if this is just one &quot;Mark&quot; and one IP address and if so, ban the little sucker? I think the &quot;you have a common name&quot; excuse/defense is more than a little lame under these circumstances. Thanks.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gee, ANOTHER &#8220;Mark&#8221; is posting here! At least it is giving yet another (fourth I&#8217;ve seen in a week) email address. Barry, I do not know the reason for what is going on but could you have your admin see if this is just one &#8220;Mark&#8221; and one IP address and if so, ban the little sucker? I think the &#8220;you have a common name&#8221; excuse/defense is more than a little lame under these circumstances. Thanks.</p>
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