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	<title>Comments on: NFP Day (plus, ADP update)</title>
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	<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2007/03/nfp-day-plus-adp-update/</link>
	<description>Macro Perspective on the Capital Markets, Economy, Geopolitics, Technology, and Digital Media</description>
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		<title>By: Barry Ritholtz</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2007/03/nfp-day-plus-adp-update/comment-page-1/#comment-35585</link>
		<dc:creator>Barry Ritholtz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Mar 2007 17:41:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigpicture.dev.wilder.ca/blog/2007/03/09/nfp-day-plus-adp-update/#comment-35585</guid>
		<description>Classic example of low expectations:

&lt;i&gt;Last week saw the markets nervous over recession talk - which had been reinvigorated the previous week by misreported comments by former Fed Chairman Alan Greenspan and then again by Greenspan later actually giving his own odds for recession this year - 30 percent incidentally, before this week&#039;s data came out. A moderately healthy employment report killed the recession talk - at least for the day on Friday - and equities responded with a mild boost while Treasuries slipped. &lt;/i&gt;

&lt;a href=&quot;http://premium.econoday.com/reports/US/EN/New_York/resource_domestic/year/2007/weekly/13/index.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Jobs thump recession talk &lt;/a&gt;

&lt;b&gt;Moderately healthy? Give me a break!&lt;/b&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Classic example of low expectations:</p>
<p><i>Last week saw the markets nervous over recession talk &#8211; which had been reinvigorated the previous week by misreported comments by former Fed Chairman Alan Greenspan and then again by Greenspan later actually giving his own odds for recession this year &#8211; 30 percent incidentally, before this week&#8217;s data came out. A moderately healthy employment report killed the recession talk &#8211; at least for the day on Friday &#8211; and equities responded with a mild boost while Treasuries slipped. </i></p>
<p><a href="http://premium.econoday.com/reports/US/EN/New_York/resource_domestic/year/2007/weekly/13/index.html" rel="nofollow">Jobs thump recession talk </a></p>
<p><b>Moderately healthy? Give me a break!</b></p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2007/03/nfp-day-plus-adp-update/comment-page-1/#comment-35584</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Mar 2007 03:56:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigpicture.dev.wilder.ca/blog/2007/03/09/nfp-day-plus-adp-update/#comment-35584</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;I&#039;m not arguing that this is a strong jobs recovery, but frankly, I&#039;m sick and tired of people comparing various economic statistics to &quot;the 90&#039;s.

I am also sick of your whining Mark when this expansion is supposed to be &quot;close&quot; to the 90&#039;s. The BLS may be just another bigger picture of Neo-con mind games and lies, a few slips of the LPF rate will do such a thing. A 5.3%UE rate isn&#039;t as sexy as a 4.5% rate, and in the mind of the invester, a HUGE difference. The fact is, I am not the only one that has had suspicions about them since the 2003 recovery got underway. It simply doesn&#039;t add up.
&lt;/i&gt;

I am guessing this was addressed to me.  And yes, I&#039;m sure you are correct.  All this data is generated by the &quot;neo-cons&quot;.  The left was running the gov&#039;t for 40 years  but all those workers have been replaced by neos.  No doubt Cheney is making the #s up himself!  Put the kool-aid down dude.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I&#8217;m not arguing that this is a strong jobs recovery, but frankly, I&#8217;m sick and tired of people comparing various economic statistics to &#8220;the 90&#8242;s.</p>
<p>I am also sick of your whining Mark when this expansion is supposed to be &#8220;close&#8221; to the 90&#8242;s. The BLS may be just another bigger picture of Neo-con mind games and lies, a few slips of the LPF rate will do such a thing. A 5.3%UE rate isn&#8217;t as sexy as a 4.5% rate, and in the mind of the invester, a HUGE difference. The fact is, I am not the only one that has had suspicions about them since the 2003 recovery got underway. It simply doesn&#8217;t add up.<br />
</i></p>
<p>I am guessing this was addressed to me.  And yes, I&#8217;m sure you are correct.  All this data is generated by the &#8220;neo-cons&#8221;.  The left was running the gov&#8217;t for 40 years  but all those workers have been replaced by neos.  No doubt Cheney is making the #s up himself!  Put the kool-aid down dude.</p>
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		<title>By: V L</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2007/03/nfp-day-plus-adp-update/comment-page-1/#comment-35583</link>
		<dc:creator>V L</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Mar 2007 12:59:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigpicture.dev.wilder.ca/blog/2007/03/09/nfp-day-plus-adp-update/#comment-35583</guid>
		<description>&quot;The jobless rate fell to 4.5% from 4.6% because people dropped out of the labor force, not because unemployed workers got jobs. According to a survey of 60,000 households, the labor force fell by 190,000 in February, the biggest drop in more than three years. Employment fell by 38,000. Unemployment fell by 152,000 to 6.9 million. The labor participation rate fell a tenth to 66.2%&quot;

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/us-feb-payrolls-up-97000/story.aspx?guid=%7B6E0A7CCE%2DE59E%2D4CC1%2D9384%2D35887AB68FB8%7D&amp;dist=

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The jobless rate fell to 4.5% from 4.6% because people dropped out of the labor force, not because unemployed workers got jobs. According to a survey of 60,000 households, the labor force fell by 190,000 in February, the biggest drop in more than three years. Employment fell by 38,000. Unemployment fell by 152,000 to 6.9 million. The labor participation rate fell a tenth to 66.2%&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/us-feb-payrolls-up-97000/story.aspx?guid=%7B6E0A7CCE%2DE59E%2D4CC1%2D9384%2D35887AB68FB8%7D&#038;dist=" rel="nofollow">http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/us-feb-payrolls-up-97000/story.aspx?guid=%7B6E0A7CCE%2DE59E%2D4CC1%2D9384%2D35887AB68FB8%7D&#038;dist=</a></p>
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		<title>By: Eclectic</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2007/03/nfp-day-plus-adp-update/comment-page-1/#comment-35582</link>
		<dc:creator>Eclectic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Mar 2007 09:32:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigpicture.dev.wilder.ca/blog/2007/03/09/nfp-day-plus-adp-update/#comment-35582</guid>
		<description>http://tinyurl.com/2o6bk9

Don&#039;t get too excited Barringo.

Sweet Bondie&#039;s just having another little episode of frightful sleep and maybe just from a morsel of undigested beef.

&quot;The data from both BLS and ADP is not consistent with a strong economy.&quot; --quoting your opening remarks.

My guess is that the &#039;under&#039; is the bet for some time yet.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://tinyurl.com/2o6bk9" rel="nofollow">http://tinyurl.com/2o6bk9</a></p>
<p>Don&#8217;t get too excited Barringo.</p>
<p>Sweet Bondie&#8217;s just having another little episode of frightful sleep and maybe just from a morsel of undigested beef.</p>
<p>&#8220;The data from both BLS and ADP is not consistent with a strong economy.&#8221; &#8211;quoting your opening remarks.</p>
<p>My guess is that the &#8216;under&#8217; is the bet for some time yet.</p>
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		<title>By: Eclectic</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2007/03/nfp-day-plus-adp-update/comment-page-1/#comment-35581</link>
		<dc:creator>Eclectic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Mar 2007 09:13:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigpicture.dev.wilder.ca/blog/2007/03/09/nfp-day-plus-adp-update/#comment-35581</guid>
		<description>http://tinyurl.com/nz4j9

See Chart 2, &#039;Growth of Private Nonfarm Employment, Goods-Producing Industries.&#039;

...then Chart 3, &#039;....Service-Providing Industries.&#039;

...then Chart 4, &#039;....(all private nonfarm employment) by Size of (Total) Payroll.&#039;

After you do that, you&#039;ll find that the argument often trotted out by the Say&#039;s Law, supply-side, &#039;Greatest Story Never Told&#039; crew over in Kudlowvia -- that &#039;creative destruction,&#039; as it moves the goods-producing job count to the scrap heap, is a good thing -- is not quite as creative as they might imagine.

For, if you take a look at those three charts it&#039;s pretty evident that both the employment of the services-providing industries, and the level of total payroll of all sizes of businesses, seem to correlate pretty reasonably with the direction and magnitude of the level of nonfarm goods-producing employment.

Now don&#039;t get me wrong... I&#039;m not an advocate of supporting the buggy whip industry, even though I do have a couple of shares left of Amalgamated Crawdad and Buggy that I&#039;ll let go cheap.

However, the Kudlowvians can&#039;t have it both ways.

They can&#039;t at first boast of job growth and economic prosperity in NeverToldVille, partly by crediting the correlation of the same prosperity in the goods-producing industries in the U.S. arising after the recession of 2001 -- and yet later, in a now obvious downturn of goods-producing employment, discount or deny the potential for an overall reversal in job growth and economic prosperity caused by that downturn, while simply blaming the decline of nonfarm goods-producing jobs on the supposed and desired concept of creative job destruction.

Creative destruction is something that occurs over a much longer time span, with a much more shallow gradient than can be absorbed in the space of only a few years without destabilizing the overall job market and the economy with it.

A goods-producing worker needs a great deal of non-goods-producing services, and when that worker doesn&#039;t have work... he needs far less of those services than when he was employed.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://tinyurl.com/nz4j9" rel="nofollow">http://tinyurl.com/nz4j9</a></p>
<p>See Chart 2, &#8216;Growth of Private Nonfarm Employment, Goods-Producing Industries.&#8217;</p>
<p>&#8230;then Chart 3, &#8216;&#8230;.Service-Providing Industries.&#8217;</p>
<p>&#8230;then Chart 4, &#8216;&#8230;.(all private nonfarm employment) by Size of (Total) Payroll.&#8217;</p>
<p>After you do that, you&#8217;ll find that the argument often trotted out by the Say&#8217;s Law, supply-side, &#8216;Greatest Story Never Told&#8217; crew over in Kudlowvia &#8212; that &#8216;creative destruction,&#8217; as it moves the goods-producing job count to the scrap heap, is a good thing &#8212; is not quite as creative as they might imagine.</p>
<p>For, if you take a look at those three charts it&#8217;s pretty evident that both the employment of the services-providing industries, and the level of total payroll of all sizes of businesses, seem to correlate pretty reasonably with the direction and magnitude of the level of nonfarm goods-producing employment.</p>
<p>Now don&#8217;t get me wrong&#8230; I&#8217;m not an advocate of supporting the buggy whip industry, even though I do have a couple of shares left of Amalgamated Crawdad and Buggy that I&#8217;ll let go cheap.</p>
<p>However, the Kudlowvians can&#8217;t have it both ways.</p>
<p>They can&#8217;t at first boast of job growth and economic prosperity in NeverToldVille, partly by crediting the correlation of the same prosperity in the goods-producing industries in the U.S. arising after the recession of 2001 &#8212; and yet later, in a now obvious downturn of goods-producing employment, discount or deny the potential for an overall reversal in job growth and economic prosperity caused by that downturn, while simply blaming the decline of nonfarm goods-producing jobs on the supposed and desired concept of creative job destruction.</p>
<p>Creative destruction is something that occurs over a much longer time span, with a much more shallow gradient than can be absorbed in the space of only a few years without destabilizing the overall job market and the economy with it.</p>
<p>A goods-producing worker needs a great deal of non-goods-producing services, and when that worker doesn&#8217;t have work&#8230; he needs far less of those services than when he was employed.</p>
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		<title>By: samuel</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2007/03/nfp-day-plus-adp-update/comment-page-1/#comment-35580</link>
		<dc:creator>samuel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Mar 2007 03:47:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigpicture.dev.wilder.ca/blog/2007/03/09/nfp-day-plus-adp-update/#comment-35580</guid>
		<description>Employment is a lagging indicator. The real problem is that America&#039;s main economic unit is debt creation. It is what fuels the US economy. Now, that appears to be ending slowly  starting with the subprime meltdown. When the credit creation process not only slows down but reverses and the deleveraging occurs then the US economy is screwed. I don&#039;t see why the highly paid and educated financial elites can&#039;t see this debt bubble as a disaster waiting to happen like I do.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Employment is a lagging indicator. The real problem is that America&#8217;s main economic unit is debt creation. It is what fuels the US economy. Now, that appears to be ending slowly  starting with the subprime meltdown. When the credit creation process not only slows down but reverses and the deleveraging occurs then the US economy is screwed. I don&#8217;t see why the highly paid and educated financial elites can&#8217;t see this debt bubble as a disaster waiting to happen like I do.</p>
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		<title>By: greg0658</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2007/03/nfp-day-plus-adp-update/comment-page-1/#comment-35579</link>
		<dc:creator>greg0658</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Mar 2007 00:59:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigpicture.dev.wilder.ca/blog/2007/03/09/nfp-day-plus-adp-update/#comment-35579</guid>
		<description>Group homes is the answer - if local governments will allow multi non relation families in a single family home. That zoning issue is rearing its ugly side around here. IE: to many cars on the street, property taxpayer rentals sitting empty.

This sollution has other effects. Fewer electricy, gas, phone, cable connections and fewer furniture and durable goods needs.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Group homes is the answer &#8211; if local governments will allow multi non relation families in a single family home. That zoning issue is rearing its ugly side around here. IE: to many cars on the street, property taxpayer rentals sitting empty.</p>
<p>This sollution has other effects. Fewer electricy, gas, phone, cable connections and fewer furniture and durable goods needs.</p>
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		<title>By: Joan</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2007/03/nfp-day-plus-adp-update/comment-page-1/#comment-35578</link>
		<dc:creator>Joan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Mar 2007 23:11:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigpicture.dev.wilder.ca/blog/2007/03/09/nfp-day-plus-adp-update/#comment-35578</guid>
		<description>Bottomline:  There must have been a doozy of a short-squeeze in Globex on the 8:30 a.m. release, implyin’ that the boys musta’ been bankin’ on a low number per the influence of the ADP report and those Street shills who hinted as much once that report was released.

Expect:  95k
Actual:  97k.

Did you ever get the feeling that the BLS first takes a gander at Street consensus before they publish?  Just askin’. Anyhow, here’s the details:
. . . . .  . . . .Expect    Actual
Mfg Payrolls    -15k     -14k
Unemployment Rate 4.6%   4.5%
Average Workweek  33.8   33.7

Avg Hourly Earnings  +0.3%  +0.4%

The BLS says that jobs were created in healthcare (+33k), prof and biz services (+29k) and food services (+21k).  Wholesale and Retail were flat. Air transport lost 7k.  Construction dropped 62k.  Of course, the very cold and snowy weather is a factor, but not if you’re a builder in Arizona, I would imagine.  So the +28k construction jobs added in January were followed by a -62k in February.  Use your head when considering the weather in general.  Because besides the fairly equal losses in res and non res construction, the BLS noted that “heavy construction” lost 10k jobs as well.

Oh, who cares?  I am so sick and tired of talking about doctor’s offices, laid-off sheet-rockers and bartenders, a shorter work week and a 6 cent increase in pay.  When at the same time,  we have a problem festering in the system, in case anybody is paying attention.  So sorry if I can’t get too worked up about a 4.5% rate of unemployment when NEW, for just one, tiny example, ceases its business because its lenders are balking.  That plus about another million BIG HINTS which for some reason, we are choosing to ignore.

Question:  Where are all the foreclosed-upon families going?  Tents?  If the abandoned homes had been of the spec variety (unoccupied), then who will raze them?  But my favorite is Cramer who is pounding the table in favor Advance America, Cash America, that ilk, as a great way to play the middle-class lending crisis.  Cool.

I think I’ve had enough.  You?
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bottomline:  There must have been a doozy of a short-squeeze in Globex on the 8:30 a.m. release, implyin’ that the boys musta’ been bankin’ on a low number per the influence of the ADP report and those Street shills who hinted as much once that report was released.</p>
<p>Expect:  95k<br />
Actual:  97k.</p>
<p>Did you ever get the feeling that the BLS first takes a gander at Street consensus before they publish?  Just askin’. Anyhow, here’s the details:<br />
. . . . .  . . . .Expect    Actual<br />
Mfg Payrolls    -15k     -14k<br />
Unemployment Rate 4.6%   4.5%<br />
Average Workweek  33.8   33.7</p>
<p>Avg Hourly Earnings  +0.3%  +0.4%</p>
<p>The BLS says that jobs were created in healthcare (+33k), prof and biz services (+29k) and food services (+21k).  Wholesale and Retail were flat. Air transport lost 7k.  Construction dropped 62k.  Of course, the very cold and snowy weather is a factor, but not if you’re a builder in Arizona, I would imagine.  So the +28k construction jobs added in January were followed by a -62k in February.  Use your head when considering the weather in general.  Because besides the fairly equal losses in res and non res construction, the BLS noted that “heavy construction” lost 10k jobs as well.</p>
<p>Oh, who cares?  I am so sick and tired of talking about doctor’s offices, laid-off sheet-rockers and bartenders, a shorter work week and a 6 cent increase in pay.  When at the same time,  we have a problem festering in the system, in case anybody is paying attention.  So sorry if I can’t get too worked up about a 4.5% rate of unemployment when NEW, for just one, tiny example, ceases its business because its lenders are balking.  That plus about another million BIG HINTS which for some reason, we are choosing to ignore.</p>
<p>Question:  Where are all the foreclosed-upon families going?  Tents?  If the abandoned homes had been of the spec variety (unoccupied), then who will raze them?  But my favorite is Cramer who is pounding the table in favor Advance America, Cash America, that ilk, as a great way to play the middle-class lending crisis.  Cool.</p>
<p>I think I’ve had enough.  You?</p>
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		<title>By: Darin</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2007/03/nfp-day-plus-adp-update/comment-page-1/#comment-35577</link>
		<dc:creator>Darin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Mar 2007 21:29:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigpicture.dev.wilder.ca/blog/2007/03/09/nfp-day-plus-adp-update/#comment-35577</guid>
		<description>It seems that one possible reason this has been such a weak recovery in terms of jobs has to be attributed to the changes in the global labor market.  With manufactures in the US on the decline, the increase in the China trade, and the increase in productivity and technology, it should come as no surprise that liberal trade policies are at the heart of the matter.  This also clearly explains the growing disparity that the WSJ has pointed out on a number of occasions between the top 5% and the rest of the country in terms of their share of the wealth.  The question, then, is one of sustainability.  How long will it take for globalization to reach parity in the labor markets and what will the transnational economic mechanism be to increase/decrease money supply.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems that one possible reason this has been such a weak recovery in terms of jobs has to be attributed to the changes in the global labor market.  With manufactures in the US on the decline, the increase in the China trade, and the increase in productivity and technology, it should come as no surprise that liberal trade policies are at the heart of the matter.  This also clearly explains the growing disparity that the WSJ has pointed out on a number of occasions between the top 5% and the rest of the country in terms of their share of the wealth.  The question, then, is one of sustainability.  How long will it take for globalization to reach parity in the labor markets and what will the transnational economic mechanism be to increase/decrease money supply.</p>
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		<title>By: Eclectic</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2007/03/nfp-day-plus-adp-update/comment-page-1/#comment-35576</link>
		<dc:creator>Eclectic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Mar 2007 21:21:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigpicture.dev.wilder.ca/blog/2007/03/09/nfp-day-plus-adp-update/#comment-35576</guid>
		<description>I must say that the majority of posts on this subject prove that the posters are a bunch of ignorant futhermuckers.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I must say that the majority of posts on this subject prove that the posters are a bunch of ignorant futhermuckers.</p>
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