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	<title>Comments on: A Closer Look at Unemployment</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2007/09/a-closer-look-at-unemployment/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2007/09/a-closer-look-at-unemployment/</link>
	<description>Macro Perspective on the Capital Markets, Economy, Geopolitics, Technology, and Digital Media</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 14 Feb 2012 22:06:42 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: The Big Picture</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2007/09/a-closer-look-at-unemployment/comment-page-1/#comment-62225</link>
		<dc:creator>The Big Picture</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Apr 2008 13:24:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigpicture.dev.wilder.ca/blog/2007/09/06/a-closer-look-at-unemployment/#comment-62225</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Jobless vs. Unemployed&lt;/strong&gt;

In today&#039;s NYT, Floyd Norris hits on a subject that has been a favorite of ours over the years: Finding the true measure of the economy&#039;s labor situation.The unemployment rate is low. The jobless rate is high.Those two seemingly contradictory statement...
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Jobless vs. Unemployed</strong></p>
<p>In today&#8217;s NYT, Floyd Norris hits on a subject that has been a favorite of ours over the years: Finding the true measure of the economy&#8217;s labor situation.The unemployment rate is low. The jobless rate is high.Those two seemingly contradictory statement&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: The Big Picture</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2007/09/a-closer-look-at-unemployment/comment-page-1/#comment-62224</link>
		<dc:creator>The Big Picture</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Mar 2008 14:13:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigpicture.dev.wilder.ca/blog/2007/09/06/a-closer-look-at-unemployment/#comment-62224</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;More on Unemployment Rates&lt;/strong&gt;

Over the past few days, we&#039;ve been discussing job creation and the various ways to think about unemployment. This has been a long standing theme around here (Augmented unemployment rate, as well as the NILF issue -- Not In Labor Force). See the list at...
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>More on Unemployment Rates</strong></p>
<p>Over the past few days, we&#8217;ve been discussing job creation and the various ways to think about unemployment. This has been a long standing theme around here (Augmented unemployment rate, as well as the NILF issue &#8212; Not In Labor Force). See the list at&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: The Big Picture</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2007/09/a-closer-look-at-unemployment/comment-page-1/#comment-62223</link>
		<dc:creator>The Big Picture</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Mar 2008 11:09:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigpicture.dev.wilder.ca/blog/2007/09/06/a-closer-look-at-unemployment/#comment-62223</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;ADP, NFP Numbers&lt;/strong&gt;

Construction and Financial Employment Changes Source: ADP, Macroeconomic advisors Tomorrow we learn what BLS data shows for the Non-Farm Payroll data for February. Consensus is for a meek 25,000 new jobs created. However, given the present concerns abo...
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>ADP, NFP Numbers</strong></p>
<p>Construction and Financial Employment Changes Source: ADP, Macroeconomic advisors Tomorrow we learn what BLS data shows for the Non-Farm Payroll data for February. Consensus is for a meek 25,000 new jobs created. However, given the present concerns abo&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Juan</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2007/09/a-closer-look-at-unemployment/comment-page-1/#comment-62222</link>
		<dc:creator>Juan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Sep 2007 05:06:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigpicture.dev.wilder.ca/blog/2007/09/06/a-closer-look-at-unemployment/#comment-62222</guid>
		<description>May be worth noting that BLS methodologies and definitions have not been static but have periodically undergone more and less substantial revisions, the last major overhaul was, i believe, completed in 1993. Shortly thereafter the range of alternative measures of unemployment was reduced and the headline measure shifted from U-5 to U-3 while what had been the most inclusive, a U-7 measure was ended in favor of a broadened U-6.

This particular complete revision also created problems of comparability between pre and post-1994 time series, which may have been corrected but if so not until the last two or three years. If not corrected, erroneous cycle peak and trough comparisons can result.

At the same time, unemployment rates fail to take account of the quality of employment, e.g., longer run and at least partially disaggregated changes in real wages.

It&#039;s late, so, let me add a clip from a recent paper by David R. Howell, Milano Graduate School
The New School &lt;i&gt;Beyond Unemployment: Measuring Labor Market Performance Across Countries&lt;/i&gt;:

&quot;Recent wage trends in the U.S. underscore the current need to take changes in the quality of jobs into account in an assessment of labor market performance. &lt;b&gt;Comparing business cycle peaks, the unemployment rate showed an impressive decline over the last two decades, from same period, the real earnings for less-educated workers collapsed and earnings inequality exploded, requiring more household members to hold more jobs and work more hours to maintain a constant standard of living. Real annual hourly wages for production and nonsupervisory workers fell at an average rate of .2% per year from 1979 through 1999, and weekly wages fell even faster, at .4% per year (Ibid., Table 2.4). Workers at the 10th percentile took home 9.3% less in 1999 than in 1979, and those with just a high school degree show an average wage decline of about 15% over this twenty year period, from $15.65 to $13.34 (Ibid.,table 2.6; table 2.19). As a result, the share of all full-time, full-year workers with poverty-level earnings rose from 14.4% in 1979 to 17.5% in 1998 (ibid., Figure 5G).&lt;/b&gt; For those without jobs or threatened with job loss, declining unemployment rates are the critical dimension of labor market performance.&quot;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>May be worth noting that BLS methodologies and definitions have not been static but have periodically undergone more and less substantial revisions, the last major overhaul was, i believe, completed in 1993. Shortly thereafter the range of alternative measures of unemployment was reduced and the headline measure shifted from U-5 to U-3 while what had been the most inclusive, a U-7 measure was ended in favor of a broadened U-6.</p>
<p>This particular complete revision also created problems of comparability between pre and post-1994 time series, which may have been corrected but if so not until the last two or three years. If not corrected, erroneous cycle peak and trough comparisons can result.</p>
<p>At the same time, unemployment rates fail to take account of the quality of employment, e.g., longer run and at least partially disaggregated changes in real wages.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s late, so, let me add a clip from a recent paper by David R. Howell, Milano Graduate School<br />
The New School <i>Beyond Unemployment: Measuring Labor Market Performance Across Countries</i>:</p>
<p>&#8220;Recent wage trends in the U.S. underscore the current need to take changes in the quality of jobs into account in an assessment of labor market performance. <b>Comparing business cycle peaks, the unemployment rate showed an impressive decline over the last two decades, from same period, the real earnings for less-educated workers collapsed and earnings inequality exploded, requiring more household members to hold more jobs and work more hours to maintain a constant standard of living. Real annual hourly wages for production and nonsupervisory workers fell at an average rate of .2% per year from 1979 through 1999, and weekly wages fell even faster, at .4% per year (Ibid., Table 2.4). Workers at the 10th percentile took home 9.3% less in 1999 than in 1979, and those with just a high school degree show an average wage decline of about 15% over this twenty year period, from $15.65 to $13.34 (Ibid.,table 2.6; table 2.19). As a result, the share of all full-time, full-year workers with poverty-level earnings rose from 14.4% in 1979 to 17.5% in 1998 (ibid., Figure 5G).</b> For those without jobs or threatened with job loss, declining unemployment rates are the critical dimension of labor market performance.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Winston Munn</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2007/09/a-closer-look-at-unemployment/comment-page-1/#comment-62221</link>
		<dc:creator>Winston Munn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Sep 2007 01:01:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigpicture.dev.wilder.ca/blog/2007/09/06/a-closer-look-at-unemployment/#comment-62221</guid>
		<description>In 2000, this was the age breakdown.

174.1 million, or 62 percent, were age 18 to 64.

Doesn&#039;t matter how you slice or dice it, this is a rough guage of the total number available to work.

The only true guage of the aggregate strength of an economic system is how many of the total work-eligible population is working?
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In 2000, this was the age breakdown.</p>
<p>174.1 million, or 62 percent, were age 18 to 64.</p>
<p>Doesn&#8217;t matter how you slice or dice it, this is a rough guage of the total number available to work.</p>
<p>The only true guage of the aggregate strength of an economic system is how many of the total work-eligible population is working?</p>
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		<title>By: Moe</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2007/09/a-closer-look-at-unemployment/comment-page-1/#comment-62220</link>
		<dc:creator>Moe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Sep 2007 23:57:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigpicture.dev.wilder.ca/blog/2007/09/06/a-closer-look-at-unemployment/#comment-62220</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s something from another site about &lt;a href=&quot;http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2007/09/mass-layoffs-soar.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Mass Layoffs Soar&lt;/a&gt; for August.


&lt;i&gt;&quot;Announced lay-offs surged 85 percent to 79,459 in August from 42,897 in July, according to Challenger, Gray &amp; Christmas Inc, an employment consulting firm. August&#039;s job cuts were the highest since February, when they totaled 84,014.&quot;&lt;/a&gt;

&lt;i&gt;&quot; Private payrolls grew by 38,000 in August, following a 41,000 gain in July, ADP said. &quot;A deceleration of employment may be under way,&quot; the company said in a release. The report suggests nonfarm payrolls may have grown much less in August than the 120,000 anticipated by economists.

&quot;The slowdown in hiring was not related to last month&#039;s credit market turmoil&quot;&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s something from another site about <a href="http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2007/09/mass-layoffs-soar.html" rel="nofollow">Mass Layoffs Soar</a> for August.</p>
<p><i>&#8220;Announced lay-offs surged 85 percent to 79,459 in August from 42,897 in July, according to Challenger, Gray &#038; Christmas Inc, an employment consulting firm. August&#8217;s job cuts were the highest since February, when they totaled 84,014.&#8221;</p>
<p></i><i>&#8221; Private payrolls grew by 38,000 in August, following a 41,000 gain in July, ADP said. &#8220;A deceleration of employment may be under way,&#8221; the company said in a release. The report suggests nonfarm payrolls may have grown much less in August than the 120,000 anticipated by economists.</p>
<p>&#8220;The slowdown in hiring was not related to last month&#8217;s credit market turmoil&#8221;"</i></p>
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		<title>By: Moe</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2007/09/a-closer-look-at-unemployment/comment-page-1/#comment-62219</link>
		<dc:creator>Moe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Sep 2007 23:42:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigpicture.dev.wilder.ca/blog/2007/09/06/a-closer-look-at-unemployment/#comment-62219</guid>
		<description>Actually, this job market is one where it&#039;s incredibly hard to find anything other than minimum wage jobs.  This job market is the worst I&#039;ve ever seen. You can send out an endless number of resumes and barely get any responses.  Starting a business is hard too because no one is spending so they can buy anything.

You&#039;re talking a 50%-75% (or more) cuts from previous income.

This is chronic long term unemployment / underemployment.

Canada on the other hand has been growing 10%+ year-over-year and have begun limiting US people from entering Canada.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, this job market is one where it&#8217;s incredibly hard to find anything other than minimum wage jobs.  This job market is the worst I&#8217;ve ever seen. You can send out an endless number of resumes and barely get any responses.  Starting a business is hard too because no one is spending so they can buy anything.</p>
<p>You&#8217;re talking a 50%-75% (or more) cuts from previous income.</p>
<p>This is chronic long term unemployment / underemployment.</p>
<p>Canada on the other hand has been growing 10%+ year-over-year and have begun limiting US people from entering Canada.</p>
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		<title>By: Nick</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2007/09/a-closer-look-at-unemployment/comment-page-1/#comment-62218</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Sep 2007 17:23:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigpicture.dev.wilder.ca/blog/2007/09/06/a-closer-look-at-unemployment/#comment-62218</guid>
		<description>Unemployment rate = (unemployed) / (employed + unemployed)

Take those termed unemployed, divide that BY the civilian labor force,and multiply by 100, and you get a percentage.&gt;


</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Unemployment rate = (unemployed) / (employed + unemployed)</p>
<p>Take those termed unemployed, divide that BY the civilian labor force,and multiply by 100, and you get a percentage.></p>
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		<title>By: M.Z. Forrest</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2007/09/a-closer-look-at-unemployment/comment-page-1/#comment-62217</link>
		<dc:creator>M.Z. Forrest</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Sep 2007 16:47:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigpicture.dev.wilder.ca/blog/2007/09/06/a-closer-look-at-unemployment/#comment-62217</guid>
		<description>When people talk about a bad job market they are saying that they can&#039;t easily (and in some case with much difficulty) find work and a salary that interests them.  Unfortunately data tunnel vision causes people to keep looking at a measure and variations of the same measure to force it to answer something it can&#039;t.  When need only look at the wage stangation for anyone making under $100K a year to understand the job market is incredibly weak.  We don&#039;t have a people starving in the streets weak labor market.  We have a I&#039;m-not-sure-how-much-longer-I-can-continue-paying-my-bills-if-prices-keep-rising-and-my-wage-doesn&#039;t-continue-to-rise job market.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When people talk about a bad job market they are saying that they can&#8217;t easily (and in some case with much difficulty) find work and a salary that interests them.  Unfortunately data tunnel vision causes people to keep looking at a measure and variations of the same measure to force it to answer something it can&#8217;t.  When need only look at the wage stangation for anyone making under $100K a year to understand the job market is incredibly weak.  We don&#8217;t have a people starving in the streets weak labor market.  We have a I&#8217;m-not-sure-how-much-longer-I-can-continue-paying-my-bills-if-prices-keep-rising-and-my-wage-doesn&#8217;t-continue-to-rise job market.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Hessel</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2007/09/a-closer-look-at-unemployment/comment-page-1/#comment-62216</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Hessel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Sep 2007 16:11:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigpicture.dev.wilder.ca/blog/2007/09/06/a-closer-look-at-unemployment/#comment-62216</guid>
		<description>Great Post!

So I have to ask.

What was the &quot;official&quot; unemployment rate in 1980? 1990? 2000?

Also from previous discussions by Barry --
What was the &quot;official&quot; inflation rate in 1980? 1990? 2000?

Or

What was the &quot;official&quot; GDP in 1980? 1990? 2000?

If everything has been jiggered to look better for whatever reason
what is the point in measuring these things?

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great Post!</p>
<p>So I have to ask.</p>
<p>What was the &#8220;official&#8221; unemployment rate in 1980? 1990? 2000?</p>
<p>Also from previous discussions by Barry &#8211;<br />
What was the &#8220;official&#8221; inflation rate in 1980? 1990? 2000?</p>
<p>Or</p>
<p>What was the &#8220;official&#8221; GDP in 1980? 1990? 2000?</p>
<p>If everything has been jiggered to look better for whatever reason<br />
what is the point in measuring these things?</p>
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