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	<title>Comments on: 1987 Crash Revisited</title>
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		<title>By: Lindsay</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2007/10/1987-crash-revisited-3/comment-page-1/#comment-77290</link>
		<dc:creator>Lindsay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Oct 2007 20:35:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigpicture.dev.wilder.ca/blog/2007/10/15/1987-crash-revisited-3/#comment-77290</guid>
		<description>There is a poll on the TradersBlog  that asks, &quot;Black Monday - Can It Happen Again This Week?&quot; I am amazed at how divided traders were. When I checked the results there was almost a 50/50 split on how traders thought the market will fair this 20th Anniversary week. Crazy. http://club.ino.com/trading/?poll
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is a poll on the TradersBlog  that asks, &#8220;Black Monday &#8211; Can It Happen Again This Week?&#8221; I am amazed at how divided traders were. When I checked the results there was almost a 50/50 split on how traders thought the market will fair this 20th Anniversary week. Crazy. <a href="http://club.ino.com/trading/?poll" rel="nofollow">http://club.ino.com/trading/?poll</a></p>
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		<title>By: Charles</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2007/10/1987-crash-revisited-3/comment-page-1/#comment-77289</link>
		<dc:creator>Charles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Oct 2007 02:57:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigpicture.dev.wilder.ca/blog/2007/10/15/1987-crash-revisited-3/#comment-77289</guid>
		<description>I wasn&#039;t in the business then, but I had a middle size account.  I just got scared in the Summer and got into cash.  The market was up three straight years, and 40% that year so far. So I was playing golf with a friend, and when we got into the car to leave, we heard it on the radio.  My friend had a margin account and was substantially wiped out.  I signed up for a three year subscription to Elaines&#039; letter, and lost a ton.

I did get a subscription refund though.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wasn&#8217;t in the business then, but I had a middle size account.  I just got scared in the Summer and got into cash.  The market was up three straight years, and 40% that year so far. So I was playing golf with a friend, and when we got into the car to leave, we heard it on the radio.  My friend had a margin account and was substantially wiped out.  I signed up for a three year subscription to Elaines&#8217; letter, and lost a ton.</p>
<p>I did get a subscription refund though.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris/tx</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2007/10/1987-crash-revisited-3/comment-page-1/#comment-77288</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris/tx</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Oct 2007 02:43:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigpicture.dev.wilder.ca/blog/2007/10/15/1987-crash-revisited-3/#comment-77288</guid>
		<description>I had worked as an expat in Dubai during &#039;86, saved all my money, quit in early &#039;87, and decided to try being a full time day trader for a year.  Went out and bought one of those spanking new 286 PC&#039;s with a modem (for online quotes), dumped what money was left into the relatively new company called Fidelity with a trading account ($20k or so).

After a bad January, I was making about a thousand a month trading options.  IIRC I had a run of making money or breaking even on about twenty or more trades.

Then came mid October.  Something didn&#039;t feel right, and told my girlfriend that I was living with (now wife) that I was going to sit on the sideline for a couple weeks.  Sure enough, less than a week later came Black Monday.

She came home from working the night shift at the hospital on the morning of Black Monday, and I was in front of the TV basically crying that I had not followed my instincts and bought puts.  She said since you were right before, why not follow your instincts now?  So I called the brokers I knew in New York for Fidelity about an hour before closing, and told them to buy every thing up to the balance in my account.  It took a couple days to even figure out what I owned.

Eventually I was told they only got half of what I wanted.  The bounce I expected happened, but it was mostly built into the options I had bought.  Unfortunately I broke my golden rule of not holding over weekends.

Mainly, I remember watching the financial network late Sunday night (a week after Black Monday), and all the int&#039;l markets opening way down.  Didn&#039;t even bother to get up Monday morning other than to see Black Monday II, and know I was basically wiped out.

Dusted off the resume, and went back to working for the man.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I had worked as an expat in Dubai during &#8217;86, saved all my money, quit in early &#8217;87, and decided to try being a full time day trader for a year.  Went out and bought one of those spanking new 286 PC&#8217;s with a modem (for online quotes), dumped what money was left into the relatively new company called Fidelity with a trading account ($20k or so).</p>
<p>After a bad January, I was making about a thousand a month trading options.  IIRC I had a run of making money or breaking even on about twenty or more trades.</p>
<p>Then came mid October.  Something didn&#8217;t feel right, and told my girlfriend that I was living with (now wife) that I was going to sit on the sideline for a couple weeks.  Sure enough, less than a week later came Black Monday.</p>
<p>She came home from working the night shift at the hospital on the morning of Black Monday, and I was in front of the TV basically crying that I had not followed my instincts and bought puts.  She said since you were right before, why not follow your instincts now?  So I called the brokers I knew in New York for Fidelity about an hour before closing, and told them to buy every thing up to the balance in my account.  It took a couple days to even figure out what I owned.</p>
<p>Eventually I was told they only got half of what I wanted.  The bounce I expected happened, but it was mostly built into the options I had bought.  Unfortunately I broke my golden rule of not holding over weekends.</p>
<p>Mainly, I remember watching the financial network late Sunday night (a week after Black Monday), and all the int&#8217;l markets opening way down.  Didn&#8217;t even bother to get up Monday morning other than to see Black Monday II, and know I was basically wiped out.</p>
<p>Dusted off the resume, and went back to working for the man.</p>
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		<title>By: ardano</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2007/10/1987-crash-revisited-3/comment-page-1/#comment-77287</link>
		<dc:creator>ardano</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Oct 2007 19:22:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigpicture.dev.wilder.ca/blog/2007/10/15/1987-crash-revisited-3/#comment-77287</guid>
		<description>Like the author of the original post, I was a babe in the biz in 1987...I was registered in 85 and worked for Legg Mason in their main DC office.  I too had been advised by my branch manager to &quot;leverage life&quot; (as I liked to call it.)  This must be page one in the branch manager&#039;s playbook.  Like Rob, I too had been told to trust the buy list.  Unlike Rob, though I was in a big enough office that a few of the senior brokers had been selling, pre crash.

Before I became a broker, I had been in the media business and had a good contact at the Washington Post.  A week before the crash, I had been called and asked about the market.  I responded the way senior brokers in my office had advised me.  To paraphase...&quot;I don&#039;t know what&#039;s going to happen, but it might make some sense to take some profits and raise some cash.&quot;

I didn&#039;t issue a &quot;sell call.&quot;  I only advised caution and prudence.  My manager took one look at the Wash. Post and told me never to speak to the press without clearing it with him.  (I have the article framed in my office as a constant reminder.)

What I recall most about the days after the crash was just how bad things were.  Much worse back then anything that&#039;s occured since.  There were rumors about major firms being bankrupt.  There were squawk box driven attempts to mobilize brokers to coordinate buys.  As a retail broker we had to quickly respond to margin calls.  I had a number of substantial clients who took money from my accounts for margin calls at other brokerage houses.

Shortly after the crash, every broker in my branch was called into the manager&#039;s office for a meeting.  We were all asked what we were going to do to help him get through what everyone thought would be an impossible year.  Younger brokers like myself were advised to consider career alternatives.  I was specifically asked what I was going to do to help lower overhead in the branch.

I recall my response.  I said...&quot;If I had to make 100 phone calls to generate interest in stocks, how many phone calls is it going to take now?  My costs are going up, not down.&quot;

I delieved this assessment to a grim faced industry veteran who is still managing today.  My conclusion was to escape to another firm with deeper pockets, but how was I going to get there with a blown book?

For those of us in the business at that time, do you remember how we survived?

Closed end bond funds.  We had a new closed end bond fund every month.  That was how we survived.  (At least that&#039;s how I survived.)

Wall Street gave us one fund after another.  Each month a little different.  We always pounded people on the deals.  We built positions in exchange traded bond funds like they were GM or GE.

There wasn&#039;t much product in those days.  No serious broker made a career on mutual funds.  We were mostly stock jockeys.  We needed the ability to build positions in those bond funds, margin them, and later trade them a little.  We counted on the extra commissions associated with new issues.  We also prayed that the firms would not let the bond fund shares drop due to commissions we had been paid on the offering.

Our smarter clients wondered whether it made more sense to buy these bond funds in the aftermarket.  It was desperation that pounded these people into the deals.

Aftermarket?  We&#039;d only make regular commission on an aftermarket trade; not the juice of a new issue.

That&#039;s my lasting impression of the crash.  Closed end bonds funds kept most of us in the game.

And yes, we did have quote machines back then, not tickers.

best to all


</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Like the author of the original post, I was a babe in the biz in 1987&#8230;I was registered in 85 and worked for Legg Mason in their main DC office.  I too had been advised by my branch manager to &#8220;leverage life&#8221; (as I liked to call it.)  This must be page one in the branch manager&#8217;s playbook.  Like Rob, I too had been told to trust the buy list.  Unlike Rob, though I was in a big enough office that a few of the senior brokers had been selling, pre crash.</p>
<p>Before I became a broker, I had been in the media business and had a good contact at the Washington Post.  A week before the crash, I had been called and asked about the market.  I responded the way senior brokers in my office had advised me.  To paraphase&#8230;&#8221;I don&#8217;t know what&#8217;s going to happen, but it might make some sense to take some profits and raise some cash.&#8221;</p>
<p>I didn&#8217;t issue a &#8220;sell call.&#8221;  I only advised caution and prudence.  My manager took one look at the Wash. Post and told me never to speak to the press without clearing it with him.  (I have the article framed in my office as a constant reminder.)</p>
<p>What I recall most about the days after the crash was just how bad things were.  Much worse back then anything that&#8217;s occured since.  There were rumors about major firms being bankrupt.  There were squawk box driven attempts to mobilize brokers to coordinate buys.  As a retail broker we had to quickly respond to margin calls.  I had a number of substantial clients who took money from my accounts for margin calls at other brokerage houses.</p>
<p>Shortly after the crash, every broker in my branch was called into the manager&#8217;s office for a meeting.  We were all asked what we were going to do to help him get through what everyone thought would be an impossible year.  Younger brokers like myself were advised to consider career alternatives.  I was specifically asked what I was going to do to help lower overhead in the branch.</p>
<p>I recall my response.  I said&#8230;&#8221;If I had to make 100 phone calls to generate interest in stocks, how many phone calls is it going to take now?  My costs are going up, not down.&#8221;</p>
<p>I delieved this assessment to a grim faced industry veteran who is still managing today.  My conclusion was to escape to another firm with deeper pockets, but how was I going to get there with a blown book?</p>
<p>For those of us in the business at that time, do you remember how we survived?</p>
<p>Closed end bond funds.  We had a new closed end bond fund every month.  That was how we survived.  (At least that&#8217;s how I survived.)</p>
<p>Wall Street gave us one fund after another.  Each month a little different.  We always pounded people on the deals.  We built positions in exchange traded bond funds like they were GM or GE.</p>
<p>There wasn&#8217;t much product in those days.  No serious broker made a career on mutual funds.  We were mostly stock jockeys.  We needed the ability to build positions in those bond funds, margin them, and later trade them a little.  We counted on the extra commissions associated with new issues.  We also prayed that the firms would not let the bond fund shares drop due to commissions we had been paid on the offering.</p>
<p>Our smarter clients wondered whether it made more sense to buy these bond funds in the aftermarket.  It was desperation that pounded these people into the deals.</p>
<p>Aftermarket?  We&#8217;d only make regular commission on an aftermarket trade; not the juice of a new issue.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s my lasting impression of the crash.  Closed end bonds funds kept most of us in the game.</p>
<p>And yes, we did have quote machines back then, not tickers.</p>
<p>best to all</p>
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		<title>By: weinerdog43</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2007/10/1987-crash-revisited-3/comment-page-1/#comment-77286</link>
		<dc:creator>weinerdog43</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Oct 2007 15:18:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigpicture.dev.wilder.ca/blog/2007/10/15/1987-crash-revisited-3/#comment-77286</guid>
		<description>I was in Austin, TX working for AIG in the Claims dept.  I was only 29 and was mostly concerned about my 401k.  Our computer screens were about 8&quot; x 8&quot; that displayed only green text.  Basically, there was a lot of standing around gossiping by us 20 somethings.  Some of the older guys (they were always guys in those days) looked sick to their stomachs and spent most of the day on the phone w/their wives or brokers.  Finally, some geezer of about 45 yells out, Goddammit!...I&#039;m broke!  I&#039;m gunna go get wasted!  We all thought this was a terrific excuse to get drunk on a Monday, so off we went too.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was in Austin, TX working for AIG in the Claims dept.  I was only 29 and was mostly concerned about my 401k.  Our computer screens were about 8&#8243; x 8&#8243; that displayed only green text.  Basically, there was a lot of standing around gossiping by us 20 somethings.  Some of the older guys (they were always guys in those days) looked sick to their stomachs and spent most of the day on the phone w/their wives or brokers.  Finally, some geezer of about 45 yells out, Goddammit!&#8230;I&#8217;m broke!  I&#8217;m gunna go get wasted!  We all thought this was a terrific excuse to get drunk on a Monday, so off we went too.</p>
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		<title>By: karl smith</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2007/10/1987-crash-revisited-3/comment-page-1/#comment-77285</link>
		<dc:creator>karl smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Oct 2007 14:18:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigpicture.dev.wilder.ca/blog/2007/10/15/1987-crash-revisited-3/#comment-77285</guid>
		<description>I was 9 and I was sitting with my father watching it when I got home from school.

I remember saying, &quot;but Dad &lt;b&gt;they&lt;/b&gt; won&#039;t let the market crash. &lt;b&gt;They&lt;/b&gt; won&#039;t let another Great Depression happen.&quot;

He turned to me and in one of the few times I ever saw my father scared in his life (not even the day he died), he said &quot;It did crash and its worse than the Great Depression&quot;

Honestly, that was probably the moment the conspiracy theory instinct inside me died and I realized that no entity was even capable of pulling the strings on the whole economy.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was 9 and I was sitting with my father watching it when I got home from school.</p>
<p>I remember saying, &#8220;but Dad <b>they</b> won&#8217;t let the market crash. <b>They</b> won&#8217;t let another Great Depression happen.&#8221;</p>
<p>He turned to me and in one of the few times I ever saw my father scared in his life (not even the day he died), he said &#8220;It did crash and its worse than the Great Depression&#8221;</p>
<p>Honestly, that was probably the moment the conspiracy theory instinct inside me died and I realized that no entity was even capable of pulling the strings on the whole economy.</p>
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		<title>By: kevin</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2007/10/1987-crash-revisited-3/comment-page-1/#comment-77284</link>
		<dc:creator>kevin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Oct 2007 13:10:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigpicture.dev.wilder.ca/blog/2007/10/15/1987-crash-revisited-3/#comment-77284</guid>
		<description>In 1987, I was still in college. My father, however, was changing fields and had just started a new job in a downtown broker&#039;s office. On Black Monday, amidst the chaos in that broker&#039;s office, a &quot;little old lady&quot; walked in with most of her savings and said that she&#039;d &quot;heard that P&amp;G was a good company to buy stock in.&quot; My dad&#039;s new boss looked at her and said, &quot;yes, ma&#039;am&quot; and promptly took her money and invested it in a rapidly declining market, with no mention to her of the market conditions. All so he could pocket another commission.

It would have cost him very little to tell her of the crash, and the way I heard it, she lost thousands that day.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In 1987, I was still in college. My father, however, was changing fields and had just started a new job in a downtown broker&#8217;s office. On Black Monday, amidst the chaos in that broker&#8217;s office, a &#8220;little old lady&#8221; walked in with most of her savings and said that she&#8217;d &#8220;heard that P&#038;G was a good company to buy stock in.&#8221; My dad&#8217;s new boss looked at her and said, &#8220;yes, ma&#8217;am&#8221; and promptly took her money and invested it in a rapidly declining market, with no mention to her of the market conditions. All so he could pocket another commission.</p>
<p>It would have cost him very little to tell her of the crash, and the way I heard it, she lost thousands that day.</p>
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		<title>By: steeliekid</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2007/10/1987-crash-revisited-3/comment-page-1/#comment-77283</link>
		<dc:creator>steeliekid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Oct 2007 12:46:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigpicture.dev.wilder.ca/blog/2007/10/15/1987-crash-revisited-3/#comment-77283</guid>
		<description>I was a sophmore in a northeastern college. The large screen TV in the basement of the fraternity house was on 24/7.  I popped in inbetween classes and it was tuned to CNN. I didn&#039;t at the time grasp the enormity of the day, but I did know that most of my college funding was in mutual funds.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was a sophmore in a northeastern college. The large screen TV in the basement of the fraternity house was on 24/7.  I popped in inbetween classes and it was tuned to CNN. I didn&#8217;t at the time grasp the enormity of the day, but I did know that most of my college funding was in mutual funds.</p>
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		<title>By: mote</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2007/10/1987-crash-revisited-3/comment-page-1/#comment-77282</link>
		<dc:creator>mote</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Oct 2007 07:20:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigpicture.dev.wilder.ca/blog/2007/10/15/1987-crash-revisited-3/#comment-77282</guid>
		<description>I remember when Lou Dobbs interviewed Elaine M. Garzarelli - to me, it was the most vivid “get out of Dodge” investment sequences ever.

I started investing in 1978. What the crash of 1987 taught me was that there are times when mere survival becomes an accomplishment. I’ve had two of them, and they will haunt you for the remainder of your investment life.

You will mutter “with the grace of God go I” and it won’t have any religious connotation at all, it will simply convey your astonishment.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I remember when Lou Dobbs interviewed Elaine M. Garzarelli &#8211; to me, it was the most vivid “get out of Dodge” investment sequences ever.</p>
<p>I started investing in 1978. What the crash of 1987 taught me was that there are times when mere survival becomes an accomplishment. I’ve had two of them, and they will haunt you for the remainder of your investment life.</p>
<p>You will mutter “with the grace of God go I” and it won’t have any religious connotation at all, it will simply convey your astonishment.</p>
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		<title>By: Markham Lee</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2007/10/1987-crash-revisited-3/comment-page-1/#comment-77281</link>
		<dc:creator>Markham Lee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Oct 2007 07:16:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigpicture.dev.wilder.ca/blog/2007/10/15/1987-crash-revisited-3/#comment-77281</guid>
		<description>I feel making people feel old today......

I was eleven on Black Monday...at the time my rather strict parents didn&#039;t allow us to watch  &quot;Mainstream TV&quot; (excepting on Saturdays) - we were a PBS/NPR household.

I finished watching &quot;The Electric Company&quot; and was settling in for my evening routine, which involved hanging out with my Step-father in his study, watching the McNeil-Lehrer Newshour and then the nightly business report.

They were all abuzz about the crash.

I had read about the crash of 1929, so I thought it was a repeat of that same situation and was worried about the family having to stand in bread lines....a concern my step-father quickly disabused.

&quot;No Markham it&#039;s not that bad, this is a short-term thing&quot;

&quot;Oh&quot;

Still, he did explain the stock market to me that day, I showed a lot of interest so he got me a subscription to the WSJ.

Hmm, this story should have a point........


</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I feel making people feel old today&#8230;&#8230;</p>
<p>I was eleven on Black Monday&#8230;at the time my rather strict parents didn&#8217;t allow us to watch  &#8220;Mainstream TV&#8221; (excepting on Saturdays) &#8211; we were a PBS/NPR household.</p>
<p>I finished watching &#8220;The Electric Company&#8221; and was settling in for my evening routine, which involved hanging out with my Step-father in his study, watching the McNeil-Lehrer Newshour and then the nightly business report.</p>
<p>They were all abuzz about the crash.</p>
<p>I had read about the crash of 1929, so I thought it was a repeat of that same situation and was worried about the family having to stand in bread lines&#8230;.a concern my step-father quickly disabused.</p>
<p>&#8220;No Markham it&#8217;s not that bad, this is a short-term thing&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;Oh&#8221;</p>
<p>Still, he did explain the stock market to me that day, I showed a lot of interest so he got me a subscription to the WSJ.</p>
<p>Hmm, this story should have a point&#8230;&#8230;..</p>
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