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	<title>Comments on: Farewell To Ben Stein</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/01/farewell-to-ben-stein/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/01/farewell-to-ben-stein/</link>
	<description>Macro Perspective on the Capital Markets, Economy, Geopolitics, Technology, and Digital Media</description>
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		<title>By: alius123</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/01/farewell-to-ben-stein/comment-page-3/#comment-87287</link>
		<dc:creator>alius123</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 May 2008 00:16:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigpicture.dev.wilder.ca/blog/2008/01/29/farewell-to-ben-stein/#comment-87287</guid>
		<description>There is nothing special about the sites you gave.  This first review is just a someone giving some steam on the issue with no new substance to the issue.  The other link is no better than this link when it comes to comments.  The comment on evolution leading to murder is a valid thing to criticize though since he proved himself anything can be rationalized to cause violence and he mentioned that evolution itself doesn&#039;t lead to hitler.  Though the statement in itself is not impossible.  I did think he did a great job showing how murder has actually been rationalized through evolution just as extremist religious people have rationalized muder in the sake of God.  The main point taken from his movie in my opinion is that it displays more importantly a battle of culture in america.  We have a big divide of both religion and athiesm and liberalism and conservatism and if one wins dominately over another we will have a problem.  You could say that this very battle is neccessary and should not leave otherwise America will definately become narrowminded.   *All in my opinion :D
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is nothing special about the sites you gave.  This first review is just a someone giving some steam on the issue with no new substance to the issue.  The other link is no better than this link when it comes to comments.  The comment on evolution leading to murder is a valid thing to criticize though since he proved himself anything can be rationalized to cause violence and he mentioned that evolution itself doesn&#8217;t lead to hitler.  Though the statement in itself is not impossible.  I did think he did a great job showing how murder has actually been rationalized through evolution just as extremist religious people have rationalized muder in the sake of God.  The main point taken from his movie in my opinion is that it displays more importantly a battle of culture in america.  We have a big divide of both religion and athiesm and liberalism and conservatism and if one wins dominately over another we will have a problem.  You could say that this very battle is neccessary and should not leave otherwise America will definately become narrowminded.   *All in my opinion :D</p>
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		<title>By: Boris</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/01/farewell-to-ben-stein/comment-page-3/#comment-75554</link>
		<dc:creator>Boris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 20:57:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigpicture.dev.wilder.ca/blog/2008/01/29/farewell-to-ben-stein/#comment-75554</guid>
		<description>Ben Stein has proven he is a lunatic.  His divorce from reality is now final and he&#039;s celebrating his new freedom by adopting the intelligent design creationism cause.

Did you see his interview on Trinity Broadcast Network?  Did you see the part where he says &quot;science leads to murder&quot;?

Have you read John Derbyshire&#039;s article at National Review - http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=ZGYwMzdjOWRmNGRhOWQ4MTQyZDMxNjNhYTU1YTE5Njk=&amp;w=MA==

Have you seen where the Anti-Defamation Leaugue has come out against his movie?  Have you read all the reviews at www.rottentomatoes.com yet?  http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/expelled_no_intelligence_allowed/

The whole world is now learning what many of us already knew - Ben Stein is a lunatic.

I love the &quot;Ben Steinery&quot;, I&#039;ll use that often.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ben Stein has proven he is a lunatic.  His divorce from reality is now final and he&#8217;s celebrating his new freedom by adopting the intelligent design creationism cause.</p>
<p>Did you see his interview on Trinity Broadcast Network?  Did you see the part where he says &#8220;science leads to murder&#8221;?</p>
<p>Have you read John Derbyshire&#8217;s article at National Review &#8211; <a href="http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=ZGYwMzdjOWRmNGRhOWQ4MTQyZDMxNjNhYTU1YTE5Njk=&#038;w=MA==" rel="nofollow">http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=ZGYwMzdjOWRmNGRhOWQ4MTQyZDMxNjNhYTU1YTE5Njk=&#038;w=MA==</a></p>
<p>Have you seen where the Anti-Defamation Leaugue has come out against his movie?  Have you read all the reviews at <a href="http://www.rottentomatoes.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.rottentomatoes.com</a> yet?  <a href="http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/expelled_no_intelligence_allowed/" rel="nofollow">http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/expelled_no_intelligence_allowed/</a></p>
<p>The whole world is now learning what many of us already knew &#8211; Ben Stein is a lunatic.</p>
<p>I love the &#8220;Ben Steinery&#8221;, I&#8217;ll use that often.</p>
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		<title>By: erina barlome</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/01/farewell-to-ben-stein/comment-page-3/#comment-75553</link>
		<dc:creator>erina barlome</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 15:14:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigpicture.dev.wilder.ca/blog/2008/01/29/farewell-to-ben-stein/#comment-75553</guid>
		<description>Virgil - Why not see Ben stein&#039;s movie?  Are you that insecure in your FAITH? Evolution is also based on philosophical speculation.  No one was there to observe how everything began, so ALL theories,including evolution, on how life began are based on presuppositions.  Did everything happen by chance, or was there an intelligence behind it?  How can anyone tell when no one was there to observe it all?  BTW - Ben is NOT a fundamentalist Christian. He&#039;s not even a Christian - he&#039;s a Jew.

Being open-minded, I will go to see the movie. If Darwin&#039;s theory and its modern derivatives are so well tested, why are so many modern scientists questioning it?  I&#039;d like to know all the arguments, not just one narrow-minded side.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Virgil &#8211; Why not see Ben stein&#8217;s movie?  Are you that insecure in your FAITH? Evolution is also based on philosophical speculation.  No one was there to observe how everything began, so ALL theories,including evolution, on how life began are based on presuppositions.  Did everything happen by chance, or was there an intelligence behind it?  How can anyone tell when no one was there to observe it all?  BTW &#8211; Ben is NOT a fundamentalist Christian. He&#8217;s not even a Christian &#8211; he&#8217;s a Jew.</p>
<p>Being open-minded, I will go to see the movie. If Darwin&#8217;s theory and its modern derivatives are so well tested, why are so many modern scientists questioning it?  I&#8217;d like to know all the arguments, not just one narrow-minded side.</p>
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		<title>By: Virgil H. Soule</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/01/farewell-to-ben-stein/comment-page-3/#comment-75552</link>
		<dc:creator>Virgil H. Soule</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Apr 2008 12:55:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigpicture.dev.wilder.ca/blog/2008/01/29/farewell-to-ben-stein/#comment-75552</guid>
		<description>Intelligent Design and Creationism are, in fact, one and the same. Creationism arose out of a literal belief in the miraculous creation events described in Genesis 1 and 2 in the Bible. It has gone through numerous pseudo-scientific contortions attempting to disprove and discredit Evolution. Since the creation acts were miracles, Creationists have never seen the need to describe the processes involved in the creation.

Michael Behe, in his exposition of the Intelligent Design idea (Darwin&#039;s Black Box), posits the existence of an intelligent designer who created designs for various complex biological forms. The nature and identity of the Designer are fundamental questions left unanswered by Prof. Behe. The means by which the designer produced the designed objects in our natural world is also not described. ID is therefore open to the conclusion that it, likewise, requires magic or miracle to explain its operation. ID is, at best, philosophical speculation –  not objective science – and is basically the same as Creationism.

Darwin&#039;s theory and its modern derivatives at least provide the beginnings of answers to questions about biological origins and lineages. Genetics introduces new forms into our world and natural selection tests them for viability. If the new forms survive the tests, they pass their genes to succeeding generations, which may or may not become new species.

As I see it, Expelled is another attempt by Creationists – now using the ID masquerade –  to subvert science education and the First Amendment prohibition of official religion. Getting their dogma into public schools would provide leverage to enable the Creationists to expand their influence into other areas of our government with the ultimate goal of making Fundamentalist Christianity the national religion. Freedom of speech is not the issue as the movie alleges. Creationists have all the freedom they need to preach their peculiar view of the world through religious channels. Our governmental system is secular and must remain so if we all are to remain free. I have not and will not see the movie because it is another attempt to dispense the same propaganda that Creationists have been peddling for years.

Ben Stein’s movie is a propaganda piece produced purely for political purposes. It has neither scientific nor religious value.

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Intelligent Design and Creationism are, in fact, one and the same. Creationism arose out of a literal belief in the miraculous creation events described in Genesis 1 and 2 in the Bible. It has gone through numerous pseudo-scientific contortions attempting to disprove and discredit Evolution. Since the creation acts were miracles, Creationists have never seen the need to describe the processes involved in the creation.</p>
<p>Michael Behe, in his exposition of the Intelligent Design idea (Darwin&#8217;s Black Box), posits the existence of an intelligent designer who created designs for various complex biological forms. The nature and identity of the Designer are fundamental questions left unanswered by Prof. Behe. The means by which the designer produced the designed objects in our natural world is also not described. ID is therefore open to the conclusion that it, likewise, requires magic or miracle to explain its operation. ID is, at best, philosophical speculation –  not objective science – and is basically the same as Creationism.</p>
<p>Darwin&#8217;s theory and its modern derivatives at least provide the beginnings of answers to questions about biological origins and lineages. Genetics introduces new forms into our world and natural selection tests them for viability. If the new forms survive the tests, they pass their genes to succeeding generations, which may or may not become new species.</p>
<p>As I see it, Expelled is another attempt by Creationists – now using the ID masquerade –  to subvert science education and the First Amendment prohibition of official religion. Getting their dogma into public schools would provide leverage to enable the Creationists to expand their influence into other areas of our government with the ultimate goal of making Fundamentalist Christianity the national religion. Freedom of speech is not the issue as the movie alleges. Creationists have all the freedom they need to preach their peculiar view of the world through religious channels. Our governmental system is secular and must remain so if we all are to remain free. I have not and will not see the movie because it is another attempt to dispense the same propaganda that Creationists have been peddling for years.</p>
<p>Ben Stein’s movie is a propaganda piece produced purely for political purposes. It has neither scientific nor religious value.</p>
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		<title>By: Barry Ritholtz</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/01/farewell-to-ben-stein/comment-page-3/#comment-75551</link>
		<dc:creator>Barry Ritholtz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Apr 2008 10:33:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigpicture.dev.wilder.ca/blog/2008/01/29/farewell-to-ben-stein/#comment-75551</guid>
		<description>Not anti-science -- Anti-Scientific method.

This is the body of techniques for investigating phenomena, acquiring new knowledge, or correcting and integrating previous knowledge. It is based on gathering observable, empirical and measurable evidence subject to specific principles of reasoning. A scientific method consists of the collection of data through observation and experimentation, and the formulation and testing of hypotheses. Peer reviews of experiments and reports are integral to the process.

Does creationism and ID do this? Do they experiment and test theories, attempting to validate the thesis or not?  Are they then peer reviewed?

That&#039;s why they are not science. And why the supporters who want it taught as science are zealots and propagandists.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not anti-science &#8212; Anti-Scientific method.</p>
<p>This is the body of techniques for investigating phenomena, acquiring new knowledge, or correcting and integrating previous knowledge. It is based on gathering observable, empirical and measurable evidence subject to specific principles of reasoning. A scientific method consists of the collection of data through observation and experimentation, and the formulation and testing of hypotheses. Peer reviews of experiments and reports are integral to the process.</p>
<p>Does creationism and ID do this? Do they experiment and test theories, attempting to validate the thesis or not?  Are they then peer reviewed?</p>
<p>That&#8217;s why they are not science. And why the supporters who want it taught as science are zealots and propagandists.</p>
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		<title>By: Ashok Shah</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/01/farewell-to-ben-stein/comment-page-3/#comment-75550</link>
		<dc:creator>Ashok Shah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Apr 2008 08:17:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigpicture.dev.wilder.ca/blog/2008/01/29/farewell-to-ben-stein/#comment-75550</guid>
		<description>PS

Read the books by Michael Denton

&quot;Evolution... A theory in crisis&quot;

&quot;Nature&#039;s Destiny: How the laws of Biology reveal purpose in the universe&quot;

Michael Denton is an ex evolutionary Biologist who realised that all evolution was a myth.

By Johnathen wells

&quot;Icons of evolution&quot; and
&quot;Darwin strikes back&quot;

Get educated and do not listen to these so called scientists who have blinded you (some of them have been blinded themselves).

Ben Stein talks to some of the major Darwinists and shows how they are so confused. See the movie and enjoy it.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PS</p>
<p>Read the books by Michael Denton</p>
<p>&#8220;Evolution&#8230; A theory in crisis&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;Nature&#8217;s Destiny: How the laws of Biology reveal purpose in the universe&#8221;</p>
<p>Michael Denton is an ex evolutionary Biologist who realised that all evolution was a myth.</p>
<p>By Johnathen wells</p>
<p>&#8220;Icons of evolution&#8221; and<br />
&#8220;Darwin strikes back&#8221;</p>
<p>Get educated and do not listen to these so called scientists who have blinded you (some of them have been blinded themselves).</p>
<p>Ben Stein talks to some of the major Darwinists and shows how they are so confused. See the movie and enjoy it.</p>
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		<title>By: Ashok Shah</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/01/farewell-to-ben-stein/comment-page-3/#comment-75549</link>
		<dc:creator>Ashok Shah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Apr 2008 08:09:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigpicture.dev.wilder.ca/blog/2008/01/29/farewell-to-ben-stein/#comment-75549</guid>
		<description>Lets get a few FACTS established here.

1. Ben Stein is NOT repeat NOT against science.

2. Ben Stein is exposing the hijakers of science who have made their RELIGION of Darwinism into science forcefully and want to shove it down everyones throats.

3. Ben Stein did a great job in exposing these hijakers in the movie. They really came out and spoke their own beliefs, making fools of themselves. They were presented as they spoke, no one put words into their mouths. Now they are running around saying that they were not told what the movie was about and they were deceived. That means that if they knew what the movie was about, they would have lied about their beliefs. So they are self admitted liars.

4. ID is NOT creationism.

5. ID is the science of detecting intelligence by observation. (For those of you capable of understanding what that means).

Why are you, who have been duped by the religion of evolution so riled up? Evolution is a myth, it has not been proven, all the evidence that these liars say they have is either coined evidence or fraud. Study some history and science, you may learn something, instead of BELIEVING what you are told by these so called scientists who are but a bunch of liars and hijackers.

If you want to study these things with an open mind, there are many sites on the internet where there is tons of study material which speaks volumes about the science behind intelligent design.

Most of the journalists that write, simply, like fools accept what the liars tell them and then they start bashing what they do not understand.

Get a life and do your own research. You may learn something that will make your existence a bit more meaningful, unless you wish to be an animal that just wants to have maximum selfish pleasure and make the most of this life since you have been duped into believing that this is all there is.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lets get a few FACTS established here.</p>
<p>1. Ben Stein is NOT repeat NOT against science.</p>
<p>2. Ben Stein is exposing the hijakers of science who have made their RELIGION of Darwinism into science forcefully and want to shove it down everyones throats.</p>
<p>3. Ben Stein did a great job in exposing these hijakers in the movie. They really came out and spoke their own beliefs, making fools of themselves. They were presented as they spoke, no one put words into their mouths. Now they are running around saying that they were not told what the movie was about and they were deceived. That means that if they knew what the movie was about, they would have lied about their beliefs. So they are self admitted liars.</p>
<p>4. ID is NOT creationism.</p>
<p>5. ID is the science of detecting intelligence by observation. (For those of you capable of understanding what that means).</p>
<p>Why are you, who have been duped by the religion of evolution so riled up? Evolution is a myth, it has not been proven, all the evidence that these liars say they have is either coined evidence or fraud. Study some history and science, you may learn something, instead of BELIEVING what you are told by these so called scientists who are but a bunch of liars and hijackers.</p>
<p>If you want to study these things with an open mind, there are many sites on the internet where there is tons of study material which speaks volumes about the science behind intelligent design.</p>
<p>Most of the journalists that write, simply, like fools accept what the liars tell them and then they start bashing what they do not understand.</p>
<p>Get a life and do your own research. You may learn something that will make your existence a bit more meaningful, unless you wish to be an animal that just wants to have maximum selfish pleasure and make the most of this life since you have been duped into believing that this is all there is.</p>
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		<title>By: alius123</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/01/farewell-to-ben-stein/comment-page-3/#comment-75548</link>
		<dc:creator>alius123</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Apr 2008 10:40:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigpicture.dev.wilder.ca/blog/2008/01/29/farewell-to-ben-stein/#comment-75548</guid>
		<description>Let&#039;s set one thing, creationism and intelligent design are different, maybe people could actually be open-minded themselves and try to learn the other side of the argument without automatically saying Ben Stein&#039;s an idiot.  Ben Stein has a better resume than half the people on here, but wait someone who graduated in economics, and graduated from Yale for law school in honors and whose dad was an economist himself is a moron.  But let&#039;s all just believe what &quot;scientists&quot; say because they are smarter than us, yet not know the specific people behind the curtain.  I read a book called: science and religion: are they compatible by Paul Kurtz.  It was absurd.  It went so far to say that people believe in religion because of a gene and that those that do believe are less evolved, which we need to figure out why people switch from believing or not believing so we can convert believers to atheism.  This isn&#039;t me putting my interpretation to his views either.  How convenient.  Let&#039;s all believe that no one but scientists are smart enough to understand anything related to this and let them tell us what to believe.  But then someone who has proven to be smarter than most is an idiot because he says he doesn&#039;t believe in evolution.  Half the people on here probably haven’t taken anything but a common biology course in their whole life and hear from media that &quot;scientists&quot; say so and so and just take it for fact.  Just as evolutionists believe creationists are closed minded, creationists believe evolutionists are closed-minded.  I personally believe it is probably neither I don&#039;t think we will ever know exactly.  I personally find rational and irrational arguments from both sides, but does that make me stupid?  We are all just too closed minded to actually be reasonable towards anything regarding issues in our country.  On that note...everyone will get ridiculously emotional when someone from another mindset decides to publish something public...you don&#039;t like this movie, make your own movie, just like conservatives made their own movie to Michael moore&#039;s called Fahrenhype.  Everyone take your own advise and try to hear both sides before you make ridicoulous claims...for those that have, let us know, just don&#039;t blab out &quot;He&#039;s an idiot!&quot;  Maybe try to explain what specifically is wrong with the idea..hint maybe this article could explain to people exactly why you believe sub-prime is not nothing and exactly how it&#039;s related..or does this author even know.  Am I just to take his word for it??  Give me other people who support this view with validity.  This reminds me when people started calling Allen Greenspan an idiot, and yet the guy is considered to be considered someone to look up to in the business realm.  Just like when everyone spouts how henious it was to put down the idea of a round earth, people are doing the same thing right now with everything else.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let&#8217;s set one thing, creationism and intelligent design are different, maybe people could actually be open-minded themselves and try to learn the other side of the argument without automatically saying Ben Stein&#8217;s an idiot.  Ben Stein has a better resume than half the people on here, but wait someone who graduated in economics, and graduated from Yale for law school in honors and whose dad was an economist himself is a moron.  But let&#8217;s all just believe what &#8220;scientists&#8221; say because they are smarter than us, yet not know the specific people behind the curtain.  I read a book called: science and religion: are they compatible by Paul Kurtz.  It was absurd.  It went so far to say that people believe in religion because of a gene and that those that do believe are less evolved, which we need to figure out why people switch from believing or not believing so we can convert believers to atheism.  This isn&#8217;t me putting my interpretation to his views either.  How convenient.  Let&#8217;s all believe that no one but scientists are smart enough to understand anything related to this and let them tell us what to believe.  But then someone who has proven to be smarter than most is an idiot because he says he doesn&#8217;t believe in evolution.  Half the people on here probably haven’t taken anything but a common biology course in their whole life and hear from media that &#8220;scientists&#8221; say so and so and just take it for fact.  Just as evolutionists believe creationists are closed minded, creationists believe evolutionists are closed-minded.  I personally believe it is probably neither I don&#8217;t think we will ever know exactly.  I personally find rational and irrational arguments from both sides, but does that make me stupid?  We are all just too closed minded to actually be reasonable towards anything regarding issues in our country.  On that note&#8230;everyone will get ridiculously emotional when someone from another mindset decides to publish something public&#8230;you don&#8217;t like this movie, make your own movie, just like conservatives made their own movie to Michael moore&#8217;s called Fahrenhype.  Everyone take your own advise and try to hear both sides before you make ridicoulous claims&#8230;for those that have, let us know, just don&#8217;t blab out &#8220;He&#8217;s an idiot!&#8221;  Maybe try to explain what specifically is wrong with the idea..hint maybe this article could explain to people exactly why you believe sub-prime is not nothing and exactly how it&#8217;s related..or does this author even know.  Am I just to take his word for it??  Give me other people who support this view with validity.  This reminds me when people started calling Allen Greenspan an idiot, and yet the guy is considered to be considered someone to look up to in the business realm.  Just like when everyone spouts how henious it was to put down the idea of a round earth, people are doing the same thing right now with everything else.</p>
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		<title>By: wilson</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/01/farewell-to-ben-stein/comment-page-3/#comment-75547</link>
		<dc:creator>wilson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Apr 2008 03:01:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigpicture.dev.wilder.ca/blog/2008/01/29/farewell-to-ben-stein/#comment-75547</guid>
		<description>The comments of this article and the
hundreds of journalistic commentaries on
this movie seem to prove the movies premise.

~~~

&lt;b&gt;BR&lt;/b&gt;: Yes, you have incontrovertibly proven this beyond any possible doubt!

Thank you for your detailed and informative comment, thus proving the validity of Intelligent Design.


</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The comments of this article and the<br />
hundreds of journalistic commentaries on<br />
this movie seem to prove the movies premise.</p>
<p>~~~</p>
<p><b>BR</b>: Yes, you have incontrovertibly proven this beyond any possible doubt!</p>
<p>Thank you for your detailed and informative comment, thus proving the validity of Intelligent Design.</p>
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		<title>By: BA</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/01/farewell-to-ben-stein/comment-page-3/#comment-75546</link>
		<dc:creator>BA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Apr 2008 13:28:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigpicture.dev.wilder.ca/blog/2008/01/29/farewell-to-ben-stein/#comment-75546</guid>
		<description>&quot;I&#039;m a libertarian/socialist type...&quot;
Some body actually wrote that down? In a public forum? For all to see? On purpose?
This place is better than mind altering drugs! Which our friend abouve thinks is his right to take but needs government to protect him from himself.  Wow
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I&#8217;m a libertarian/socialist type&#8230;&#8221;<br />
Some body actually wrote that down? In a public forum? For all to see? On purpose?<br />
This place is better than mind altering drugs! Which our friend abouve thinks is his right to take but needs government to protect him from himself.  Wow</p>
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