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	<title>Comments on: What&#8217;s Wrong With Billionaire Fund Managers?</title>
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	<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/04/whats-wrong-with-billionaire-fund-managers/</link>
	<description>Macro Perspective on the Capital Markets, Economy, Geopolitics, Technology, and Digital Media</description>
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		<title>By: Richard Wilson, Hedge Funds</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/04/whats-wrong-with-billionaire-fund-managers/comment-page-2/#comment-53495</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Wilson, Hedge Funds</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 11:21:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigpicture.dev.wilder.ca/blog/2008/04/16/whats-wrong-with-billionaire-fund-managers/#comment-53495</guid>
		<description>Amen.  Nice post and I agree with both your opinion on the situation and reaction to the comments above.  These hedge fund managers, like most written about in mainstream media are the Jordans of the industry.  The average hedge fund manager makes an income that wouldn&#039;t turn the heads of too many super liberals.  Hedge funds have recently managed risk better than the banks, it is now the hedge fund managers evaluating the cash positions of their prime brokerage partners instead of the other way around.

Let me know if you would ever want to co-write a post, debate or interview each other for our blogs.

- Richard
Hedge Fund Consulting Blog
Hedge Fund Group (HFG)

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Amen.  Nice post and I agree with both your opinion on the situation and reaction to the comments above.  These hedge fund managers, like most written about in mainstream media are the Jordans of the industry.  The average hedge fund manager makes an income that wouldn&#8217;t turn the heads of too many super liberals.  Hedge funds have recently managed risk better than the banks, it is now the hedge fund managers evaluating the cash positions of their prime brokerage partners instead of the other way around.</p>
<p>Let me know if you would ever want to co-write a post, debate or interview each other for our blogs.</p>
<p>- Richard<br />
Hedge Fund Consulting Blog<br />
Hedge Fund Group (HFG)</p>
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		<title>By: Just a  Point</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/04/whats-wrong-with-billionaire-fund-managers/comment-page-2/#comment-53494</link>
		<dc:creator>Just a  Point</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Apr 2008 22:12:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigpicture.dev.wilder.ca/blog/2008/04/16/whats-wrong-with-billionaire-fund-managers/#comment-53494</guid>
		<description>Most People fail to see the money being made be the oil well owners in this country. they are pumping like crazy and are getting a great price for their oil and don&#039;t have to ship it any where and are selling it right to the government.Oh by the way that&#039;s you..
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Most People fail to see the money being made be the oil well owners in this country. they are pumping like crazy and are getting a great price for their oil and don&#8217;t have to ship it any where and are selling it right to the government.Oh by the way that&#8217;s you..</p>
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		<title>By: The Big Picture</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/04/whats-wrong-with-billionaire-fund-managers/comment-page-2/#comment-53496</link>
		<dc:creator>The Big Picture</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Apr 2008 12:05:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigpicture.dev.wilder.ca/blog/2008/04/16/whats-wrong-with-billionaire-fund-managers/#comment-53496</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Hedge Fund Compensation&lt;/strong&gt;

Earlier this week, I asked, What&#039;s Wrong With Billionaire Fund Managers? In noted the very top % of this profession carried enormous compensation for those Alpha creators who earned tremendous returns for their partners. Most of the top earners are als...
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Hedge Fund Compensation</strong></p>
<p>Earlier this week, I asked, What&#8217;s Wrong With Billionaire Fund Managers? In noted the very top % of this profession carried enormous compensation for those Alpha creators who earned tremendous returns for their partners. Most of the top earners are als&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: OhNoNotAgain</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/04/whats-wrong-with-billionaire-fund-managers/comment-page-2/#comment-53493</link>
		<dc:creator>OhNoNotAgain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Apr 2008 10:57:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigpicture.dev.wilder.ca/blog/2008/04/16/whats-wrong-with-billionaire-fund-managers/#comment-53493</guid>
		<description>So, you&#039;re essentially saying to those that are getting screwed out of some (or most) of their pension:

&quot;Be happy with what you got and shut up&quot;.

Is that about right ?  Something tells me that you wouldn&#039;t be so cavalier about this if it were *your* retirement money that you were counting on.

The fact of the matter is that the traditional investments would be doing a lot better if we&#039;d stop all of this financial speculation and get back to being an actual productive economy.  There&#039;s way too much money chasing way too little actual productive value, and way too many people taking their pound of flesh in the process.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, you&#8217;re essentially saying to those that are getting screwed out of some (or most) of their pension:</p>
<p>&#8220;Be happy with what you got and shut up&#8221;.</p>
<p>Is that about right ?  Something tells me that you wouldn&#8217;t be so cavalier about this if it were *your* retirement money that you were counting on.</p>
<p>The fact of the matter is that the traditional investments would be doing a lot better if we&#8217;d stop all of this financial speculation and get back to being an actual productive economy.  There&#8217;s way too much money chasing way too little actual productive value, and way too many people taking their pound of flesh in the process.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/04/whats-wrong-with-billionaire-fund-managers/comment-page-2/#comment-53492</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Apr 2008 19:55:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigpicture.dev.wilder.ca/blog/2008/04/16/whats-wrong-with-billionaire-fund-managers/#comment-53492</guid>
		<description>What some people seem to be missing, is that the alternative part of most institutional investor portfolios is holding up much better today than their traditional assets.  So, in essence, folks like Paulson and some hedge funds (not all by any stretch) are actually helping alleviate the externalities (unfunded pension liabilities) mentioned above.

All this belly-aching about compensation comes down to jealously.  Just like all the dis-belief about the internet million/billionaires in the late 1990&#039;s and the Schadenfreude that came with the collapse.  If you think you can put up the performance these guys do, all you have to do is convince some initial investors and have at it.

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What some people seem to be missing, is that the alternative part of most institutional investor portfolios is holding up much better today than their traditional assets.  So, in essence, folks like Paulson and some hedge funds (not all by any stretch) are actually helping alleviate the externalities (unfunded pension liabilities) mentioned above.</p>
<p>All this belly-aching about compensation comes down to jealously.  Just like all the dis-belief about the internet million/billionaires in the late 1990&#8242;s and the Schadenfreude that came with the collapse.  If you think you can put up the performance these guys do, all you have to do is convince some initial investors and have at it.</p>
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		<title>By: Justin Dangel</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/04/whats-wrong-with-billionaire-fund-managers/comment-page-2/#comment-53491</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin Dangel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Apr 2008 11:26:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigpicture.dev.wilder.ca/blog/2008/04/16/whats-wrong-with-billionaire-fund-managers/#comment-53491</guid>
		<description>Kennycan needs to recognize that most of the money in hedge funds is now institutional (i.e. pension funds) and that the industry is producing many non-economic externalities.  Its pretty obvious to any good faith arguer that hedge fund compensation is a free market disfunction.  We can choose to be worried about that and the negative externalities it causes or not.  Please stop calling people who are concerned about a well-functioning market economy socialist.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kennycan needs to recognize that most of the money in hedge funds is now institutional (i.e. pension funds) and that the industry is producing many non-economic externalities.  Its pretty obvious to any good faith arguer that hedge fund compensation is a free market disfunction.  We can choose to be worried about that and the negative externalities it causes or not.  Please stop calling people who are concerned about a well-functioning market economy socialist.</p>
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		<title>By: OhNoNotAgain</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/04/whats-wrong-with-billionaire-fund-managers/comment-page-2/#comment-53490</link>
		<dc:creator>OhNoNotAgain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Apr 2008 09:38:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigpicture.dev.wilder.ca/blog/2008/04/16/whats-wrong-with-billionaire-fund-managers/#comment-53490</guid>
		<description>Egg, you&#039;ve added another dimension that even I failed to address adequately - the failure of our markets (and hedge funds) to fully understand the products and companies that they&#039;re dealing with, and the effect that this has on our *actual* standard of living.  The worst part is, at least for a while, this type of arrangement works.  But then the increases in costs for health care, social spending, crime prevention, loss of productivity, etc. start to slowly creep up, and we&#039;re left with an unsustainable mess on our hands.

I had some further responses for kennycan, but the spam filter keeps flagging my comments as spam, and I&#039;m done trying to guess which phrase or phrases it doesn&#039;t like.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Egg, you&#8217;ve added another dimension that even I failed to address adequately &#8211; the failure of our markets (and hedge funds) to fully understand the products and companies that they&#8217;re dealing with, and the effect that this has on our *actual* standard of living.  The worst part is, at least for a while, this type of arrangement works.  But then the increases in costs for health care, social spending, crime prevention, loss of productivity, etc. start to slowly creep up, and we&#8217;re left with an unsustainable mess on our hands.</p>
<p>I had some further responses for kennycan, but the spam filter keeps flagging my comments as spam, and I&#8217;m done trying to guess which phrase or phrases it doesn&#8217;t like.</p>
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		<title>By: Egg</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/04/whats-wrong-with-billionaire-fund-managers/comment-page-2/#comment-53489</link>
		<dc:creator>Egg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Apr 2008 08:58:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigpicture.dev.wilder.ca/blog/2008/04/16/whats-wrong-with-billionaire-fund-managers/#comment-53489</guid>
		<description>As far as creation of value goes, I frequently hear the explanation (quite a theoretical one) that investors are ultimately rewarded for discovering inefficiencies and for the efficient reallocation of resources.  Once again, if you only measure efficiency in terms of liquid money then the real value may easily slip through your fingers.

Here is my current favorite historical example: milk.  When you make the production of milk efficient, quality goes through the floor.  Something like 99.9% of us don&#039;t know what milk tasted like before 1850.  But 0.01% of us do know, because a few farmers are making milk the same way it was made back then--and it tastes gooooood.  In those days there was something known as the &quot;milk cure&quot;--drink nothing but milk for a month and it would cure just about any disease.  Today nobody would try to argue that milk is a health food, because it isn&#039;t anymore: there is plenty of science to show that modern milk causes heart disease, cancer, allergies, etc.

A basic aspect of the problem is that the vast majority of consumers are not aware of milk quality issues, so the apparently &quot;rational&quot; choice (paying less for the &quot;same&quot; product) is ultimately not the real rational choice (paying more now to avoid heart disease and cancer later).  This deviation from rational behavior has only increased over the past 150 years due to the steadily growing political influence of big dairies, and there is little hope of mean-reversion in the foreseeable future.

Now investors would surely have been rewarded for reallocating assets away from slow, small-scale milk production towards large factory dairies.  So in terms of liquid money, there is greater value in efficient milk production.  But throw the health and quality issues into the equation, and this added value disappears.  What is left is a transfer of wealth from small dairies and consumers to large dairies and their investors.  In particular, the consumer experiences a loss of wealth in the form of a loss of health and quality of life.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As far as creation of value goes, I frequently hear the explanation (quite a theoretical one) that investors are ultimately rewarded for discovering inefficiencies and for the efficient reallocation of resources.  Once again, if you only measure efficiency in terms of liquid money then the real value may easily slip through your fingers.</p>
<p>Here is my current favorite historical example: milk.  When you make the production of milk efficient, quality goes through the floor.  Something like 99.9% of us don&#8217;t know what milk tasted like before 1850.  But 0.01% of us do know, because a few farmers are making milk the same way it was made back then&#8211;and it tastes gooooood.  In those days there was something known as the &#8220;milk cure&#8221;&#8211;drink nothing but milk for a month and it would cure just about any disease.  Today nobody would try to argue that milk is a health food, because it isn&#8217;t anymore: there is plenty of science to show that modern milk causes heart disease, cancer, allergies, etc.</p>
<p>A basic aspect of the problem is that the vast majority of consumers are not aware of milk quality issues, so the apparently &#8220;rational&#8221; choice (paying less for the &#8220;same&#8221; product) is ultimately not the real rational choice (paying more now to avoid heart disease and cancer later).  This deviation from rational behavior has only increased over the past 150 years due to the steadily growing political influence of big dairies, and there is little hope of mean-reversion in the foreseeable future.</p>
<p>Now investors would surely have been rewarded for reallocating assets away from slow, small-scale milk production towards large factory dairies.  So in terms of liquid money, there is greater value in efficient milk production.  But throw the health and quality issues into the equation, and this added value disappears.  What is left is a transfer of wealth from small dairies and consumers to large dairies and their investors.  In particular, the consumer experiences a loss of wealth in the form of a loss of health and quality of life.</p>
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		<title>By: kennycan</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/04/whats-wrong-with-billionaire-fund-managers/comment-page-2/#comment-53488</link>
		<dc:creator>kennycan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Apr 2008 08:05:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigpicture.dev.wilder.ca/blog/2008/04/16/whats-wrong-with-billionaire-fund-managers/#comment-53488</guid>
		<description>Let me clarify my point. Many people are criticizing things unrelated to the core issue brought up in the post. Party A, an investor with let&#039;s say $100mm to invest, pays Party B, a hedge fund manager, a large sum of money to invest his money. All the criticisms along the lines of &quot;heads I win, tails you lose&quot; and &quot;overall hedge funds underperform the S&amp;P&quot; and &quot;they don&#039;t create anything of value&quot; are irrelevant to the post. You don&#039;t pay Party B, Party A does. If Party A does not get value for his money for whatever reason, that&#039;s not for you to say anything about. It is a private contract between Party A and Party B and Party A&#039;s business. MYOB.

The people you should be criticizing is not Party B but Party A. &quot;Why is Party A not taking his US$100mm and investing it in something that creates value&quot;, might be a valid argument. If it&#039;s &quot;Heads I Win, Tails you Lose&quot; then the answer is Party A is stupid. But that would be off topic to the post at hand.

Solutions like capping these people&#039;s salaries is counterproductive. It rewards Party A but doesn&#039;t necessarily benefit anyone else. If Party A no longer has acess to the investment returns of a Jim Simons et al, then in the long run it hurts Party A as well. So how has any of this made anything better?

It&#039;s the problem with socialism. We end up trying to equalize the outcomes by cutting everyone down to the lowest common denominator rather than expanding equality of opportunity for everyone.

I&#039;ve got an idea. If it&#039;s so easy, why don&#039;t we all get together and start our own hedge fund. The Big Picture Blog Readers Hedge Fund. We only charge 1 + 10 and we voluntarily pay 35% tax rates, just to be fair to the regular guy, doncha know.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let me clarify my point. Many people are criticizing things unrelated to the core issue brought up in the post. Party A, an investor with let&#8217;s say $100mm to invest, pays Party B, a hedge fund manager, a large sum of money to invest his money. All the criticisms along the lines of &#8220;heads I win, tails you lose&#8221; and &#8220;overall hedge funds underperform the S&#038;P&#8221; and &#8220;they don&#8217;t create anything of value&#8221; are irrelevant to the post. You don&#8217;t pay Party B, Party A does. If Party A does not get value for his money for whatever reason, that&#8217;s not for you to say anything about. It is a private contract between Party A and Party B and Party A&#8217;s business. MYOB.</p>
<p>The people you should be criticizing is not Party B but Party A. &#8220;Why is Party A not taking his US$100mm and investing it in something that creates value&#8221;, might be a valid argument. If it&#8217;s &#8220;Heads I Win, Tails you Lose&#8221; then the answer is Party A is stupid. But that would be off topic to the post at hand.</p>
<p>Solutions like capping these people&#8217;s salaries is counterproductive. It rewards Party A but doesn&#8217;t necessarily benefit anyone else. If Party A no longer has acess to the investment returns of a Jim Simons et al, then in the long run it hurts Party A as well. So how has any of this made anything better?</p>
<p>It&#8217;s the problem with socialism. We end up trying to equalize the outcomes by cutting everyone down to the lowest common denominator rather than expanding equality of opportunity for everyone.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve got an idea. If it&#8217;s so easy, why don&#8217;t we all get together and start our own hedge fund. The Big Picture Blog Readers Hedge Fund. We only charge 1 + 10 and we voluntarily pay 35% tax rates, just to be fair to the regular guy, doncha know.</p>
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		<title>By: kennycan</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/04/whats-wrong-with-billionaire-fund-managers/comment-page-2/#comment-53487</link>
		<dc:creator>kennycan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Apr 2008 07:30:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigpicture.dev.wilder.ca/blog/2008/04/16/whats-wrong-with-billionaire-fund-managers/#comment-53487</guid>
		<description>OK, if they &quot;earned&quot; it, they must have created something of value.

At what store can I buy this something?

Didn&#039;t think so.

Posted by: donna &#124; Apr 17, 2008 12:58:06 AM

I have a friend who is a tailor. He&#039;s probably the best tailor in the world. He&#039;s so good that the most successful gentleman in the world will pay large sums of money to get his bespoke suits. Because of this he only works by appointment and charges oodles of money.

Substitute &quot;hedge fund manager&quot; for tailor and substitute &quot;investment returns&quot; for bespoke suits.

Jeebus, you people make it sound like you&#039;re paying these guys.

I also believe it&#039;s unfair that ordinary people have to pay 30+% income taxes while these people only pay 15%. That&#039;s why I think we should lower ordinary income rates down to 15%.

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK, if they &#8220;earned&#8221; it, they must have created something of value.</p>
<p>At what store can I buy this something?</p>
<p>Didn&#8217;t think so.</p>
<p>Posted by: donna | Apr 17, 2008 12:58:06 AM</p>
<p>I have a friend who is a tailor. He&#8217;s probably the best tailor in the world. He&#8217;s so good that the most successful gentleman in the world will pay large sums of money to get his bespoke suits. Because of this he only works by appointment and charges oodles of money.</p>
<p>Substitute &#8220;hedge fund manager&#8221; for tailor and substitute &#8220;investment returns&#8221; for bespoke suits.</p>
<p>Jeebus, you people make it sound like you&#8217;re paying these guys.</p>
<p>I also believe it&#8217;s unfair that ordinary people have to pay 30+% income taxes while these people only pay 15%. That&#8217;s why I think we should lower ordinary income rates down to 15%.</p>
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