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	<title>Comments on: Oil Exporters Are Unable To Keep Up With Demand</title>
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	<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/05/oil-exporters-are-unable-to-keep-up-with-demand/</link>
	<description>Macro Perspective on the Capital Markets, Economy, Geopolitics, Technology, and Digital Media</description>
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		<title>By: jb</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/05/oil-exporters-are-unable-to-keep-up-with-demand/comment-page-2/#comment-88404</link>
		<dc:creator>jb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 15:51:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigpicture.dev.wilder.ca/blog/2008/05/oil-exporters-are-unable-to-keep-up-with-demand/#comment-88404</guid>
		<description>Barry,

&quot;Under IP address 159.53.78.140, you publish under multiple names (DMR, Matt, Monty Burns, Contrarian) , bad email address, no ID, no website.&quot;

Well, considering that IP address is a JP Morgan Chase gateway, it could be any number of people from the company.  The Big Picture must be some popular reading at JP Morgan during lunch.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Barry,</p>
<p>&#8220;Under IP address 159.53.78.140, you publish under multiple names (DMR, Matt, Monty Burns, Contrarian) , bad email address, no ID, no website.&#8221;</p>
<p>Well, considering that IP address is a JP Morgan Chase gateway, it could be any number of people from the company.  The Big Picture must be some popular reading at JP Morgan during lunch.</p>
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		<title>By: That Guy Drinks Beer</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/05/oil-exporters-are-unable-to-keep-up-with-demand/comment-page-1/#comment-88403</link>
		<dc:creator>That Guy Drinks Beer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 03:00:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigpicture.dev.wilder.ca/blog/2008/05/oil-exporters-are-unable-to-keep-up-with-demand/#comment-88403</guid>
		<description>&quot;Exxon is the world&#039;s largest non-state oil company and the largest publicly traded corporation by market capitalization ($478 billion). If anyone has both the incentive and the resources to find and sell more oil, it is them. But they can&#039;t. In the last five years, as the average price of oil more than tripled, their production has been flat...

And it&#039;s not as if they haven&#039;t been trying: their capital and exploration expenses for upstream operations have nearly doubled in recent years.&quot;

http://suddendebt.blogspot.com/2008/04/crude-facts.html
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Exxon is the world&#8217;s largest non-state oil company and the largest publicly traded corporation by market capitalization ($478 billion). If anyone has both the incentive and the resources to find and sell more oil, it is them. But they can&#8217;t. In the last five years, as the average price of oil more than tripled, their production has been flat&#8230;</p>
<p>And it&#8217;s not as if they haven&#8217;t been trying: their capital and exploration expenses for upstream operations have nearly doubled in recent years.&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://suddendebt.blogspot.com/2008/04/crude-facts.html" rel="nofollow">http://suddendebt.blogspot.com/2008/04/crude-facts.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: peakoiler</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/05/oil-exporters-are-unable-to-keep-up-with-demand/comment-page-1/#comment-88402</link>
		<dc:creator>peakoiler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 00:22:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigpicture.dev.wilder.ca/blog/2008/05/oil-exporters-are-unable-to-keep-up-with-demand/#comment-88402</guid>
		<description>I live in DC and I noticed on I-270 Sunday afternoon, traffic seemed really light for a gorgeous Sunday on Memorial Day weekend.  I have also noticed more people waiting for buses at bus stops.  Also saw an actual pedestrian trying to cross a major intersection in Rockville the other day where I had never seen a pedestrian before.  Been noticing these types of things lately.  I say bring it on.  Then maybe I can bike more to places and not worry about cheating death while I do so.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I live in DC and I noticed on I-270 Sunday afternoon, traffic seemed really light for a gorgeous Sunday on Memorial Day weekend.  I have also noticed more people waiting for buses at bus stops.  Also saw an actual pedestrian trying to cross a major intersection in Rockville the other day where I had never seen a pedestrian before.  Been noticing these types of things lately.  I say bring it on.  Then maybe I can bike more to places and not worry about cheating death while I do so.</p>
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		<title>By: patfla</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/05/oil-exporters-are-unable-to-keep-up-with-demand/comment-page-1/#comment-88401</link>
		<dc:creator>patfla</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 May 2008 23:08:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigpicture.dev.wilder.ca/blog/2008/05/oil-exporters-are-unable-to-keep-up-with-demand/#comment-88401</guid>
		<description>Hi Juan,  yes I&#039;m aware that there as newer, better methods as regards both the Canadian tar sands and Venezuela&#039;s heavy oil.  Methods that are both less environmentally destructive (it&#039;s better put than way than &quot;more environmentally benighn&quot;) and increase output.

I think one can almost assume that it&#039;s a matter of time before these methods are used in Canada.

Oh and as regards a prior post of yours (different grades of crude).  I was reading some piece on an independent US refiner somewhere in the Middle US (by which I mean from Texas to Montana) that had had the foresight to rig out their refineries for the extra beating that heavy oil produces.

And there&#039;s a non-trivial quantity of heavy oil in places like Wyoming and Montana.  There&#039;s been a mini-boom with lots of new rigs put in, and the refiner in question is one of the few that can handle their output and is making money hand-over-fist.

Wyoming/Montana would make sense to me since that&#039;s where the Powder River Basin is.  And the world&#039;s largest coal mine.  More US coal now comes from here than from Appalachia.

Think the Ghawar of coal.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Juan,  yes I&#8217;m aware that there as newer, better methods as regards both the Canadian tar sands and Venezuela&#8217;s heavy oil.  Methods that are both less environmentally destructive (it&#8217;s better put than way than &#8220;more environmentally benighn&#8221;) and increase output.</p>
<p>I think one can almost assume that it&#8217;s a matter of time before these methods are used in Canada.</p>
<p>Oh and as regards a prior post of yours (different grades of crude).  I was reading some piece on an independent US refiner somewhere in the Middle US (by which I mean from Texas to Montana) that had had the foresight to rig out their refineries for the extra beating that heavy oil produces.</p>
<p>And there&#8217;s a non-trivial quantity of heavy oil in places like Wyoming and Montana.  There&#8217;s been a mini-boom with lots of new rigs put in, and the refiner in question is one of the few that can handle their output and is making money hand-over-fist.</p>
<p>Wyoming/Montana would make sense to me since that&#8217;s where the Powder River Basin is.  And the world&#8217;s largest coal mine.  More US coal now comes from here than from Appalachia.</p>
<p>Think the Ghawar of coal.</p>
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		<title>By: Juan</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/05/oil-exporters-are-unable-to-keep-up-with-demand/comment-page-1/#comment-88400</link>
		<dc:creator>Juan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 May 2008 22:37:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigpicture.dev.wilder.ca/blog/2008/05/oil-exporters-are-unable-to-keep-up-with-demand/#comment-88400</guid>
		<description>patfla,

Athabascan, and potenially Orinoco, production might benefit from newer in-situ recovery methods such as toe to heel air injection (a thermal recovery technique with much lighter footprint).
Here&#039;s a piece from Oil Drum Canada:
http://canada.theoildrum.com/node/2907#more
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>patfla,</p>
<p>Athabascan, and potenially Orinoco, production might benefit from newer in-situ recovery methods such as toe to heel air injection (a thermal recovery technique with much lighter footprint).<br />
Here&#8217;s a piece from Oil Drum Canada:<br />
<a href="http://canada.theoildrum.com/node/2907#more" rel="nofollow">http://canada.theoildrum.com/node/2907#more</a></p>
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		<title>By: Juan</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/05/oil-exporters-are-unable-to-keep-up-with-demand/comment-page-1/#comment-88399</link>
		<dc:creator>Juan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 May 2008 21:36:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigpicture.dev.wilder.ca/blog/2008/05/oil-exporters-are-unable-to-keep-up-with-demand/#comment-88399</guid>
		<description>thefinancedude,

Exactly, and if you look at inventories by PADD, it&#039;s evident that nearly all of the total draw is accounted for by PADD 3 (U.S. Gulf Coast).
---

The WSJ seems unconscious to the fact that consumer demand within some importing nations has not been exactly booming while many exporting nations subsidise domestic demand. Beyond which there&#039;s some implication of a generic &#039;world oil&#039;, no matter that there are many different grades within a reference formula structure with benchmarks&#039; price discovery taking place in financial markets.
Too many still imagine there was/is some strict supply/demand; price relation -- even though this hasn&#039;t held for nearly a century (or more). Instead it has been a matter of distinct price regimes and who/what dominated these. Price management, whether decades ago by the so-called &#039;international oil cartel&#039; or by OPEC or by financial interests does not have much to do with free market orthodoxies, though the current regime is often referred to as &quot;market-related&quot;.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>thefinancedude,</p>
<p>Exactly, and if you look at inventories by PADD, it&#8217;s evident that nearly all of the total draw is accounted for by PADD 3 (U.S. Gulf Coast).<br />
&#8212;</p>
<p>The WSJ seems unconscious to the fact that consumer demand within some importing nations has not been exactly booming while many exporting nations subsidise domestic demand. Beyond which there&#8217;s some implication of a generic &#8216;world oil&#8217;, no matter that there are many different grades within a reference formula structure with benchmarks&#8217; price discovery taking place in financial markets.<br />
Too many still imagine there was/is some strict supply/demand; price relation &#8212; even though this hasn&#8217;t held for nearly a century (or more). Instead it has been a matter of distinct price regimes and who/what dominated these. Price management, whether decades ago by the so-called &#8216;international oil cartel&#8217; or by OPEC or by financial interests does not have much to do with free market orthodoxies, though the current regime is often referred to as &#8220;market-related&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Sinomania!</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/05/oil-exporters-are-unable-to-keep-up-with-demand/comment-page-1/#comment-88398</link>
		<dc:creator>Sinomania!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 May 2008 20:58:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigpicture.dev.wilder.ca/blog/2008/05/oil-exporters-are-unable-to-keep-up-with-demand/#comment-88398</guid>
		<description>Chinese oil/gas retailers are forced to eat a lot of profit by the state dictate on prices.  They forced a supply &quot;shortage&quot; last year and I saw big lines for petrol in Xi&#039;An, deep inside China.  They got permission for a 20% price jump then.  Rumour is the oil majors are grumbling for another price jump.

Feeding Chinese demand is a big factor.  There are several major oil refineries under construction that will dramatically increase Chinese oil imports (and consumption) in the next 10 years.  In just the past 14 years China has gone from self-sufficiency to importing over 3 million barrels per day last year.  This is going effect prices for a long time.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chinese oil/gas retailers are forced to eat a lot of profit by the state dictate on prices.  They forced a supply &#8220;shortage&#8221; last year and I saw big lines for petrol in Xi&#8217;An, deep inside China.  They got permission for a 20% price jump then.  Rumour is the oil majors are grumbling for another price jump.</p>
<p>Feeding Chinese demand is a big factor.  There are several major oil refineries under construction that will dramatically increase Chinese oil imports (and consumption) in the next 10 years.  In just the past 14 years China has gone from self-sufficiency to importing over 3 million barrels per day last year.  This is going effect prices for a long time.</p>
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		<title>By: patfla</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/05/oil-exporters-are-unable-to-keep-up-with-demand/comment-page-1/#comment-88397</link>
		<dc:creator>patfla</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 May 2008 20:58:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigpicture.dev.wilder.ca/blog/2008/05/oil-exporters-are-unable-to-keep-up-with-demand/#comment-88397</guid>
		<description>(eric) again (in a way) it&#039;s not that I&#039;m deaf to peak oil.  I&#039;ve read maybe six books on the subject and thought about it a lot.

When you include the Athabasca tar sands, Canada&#039;s reserves are second only to Saudi Arabia.  Now one caveat is that not all of that is recoverable with current methods.  But huge amounts are.  And, as I investigated it, predictions that Canada will go from 1 b bbl/yr to 3 - i.e. tripling their output - seem very realistic.

Another problem/caveat though (let&#039;s put as many facts up front as possible) is that the current methods are very water (and energy) intensive.  Northern Canada has plenty of water but some people are already worrying that water availability is going to impact oil extraction from tar sands.

In sum though, I don&#039;t think Canada is going to peak anytime soon.

Ghawar may be in decline (and if so, generally it&#039;s steep) although the Saudis would of course never cop to this.

But the Saudis (and their Am and European precursors) having been going at Ghawar for a long time.  The Canadian tar sands have been barely touched.

The point is to buy ourselves time while we hopefully get a better handle on energy consumption in general and develop new technologies.  Without a collapse of the world economy.  A conservative guess is that a &#039;sufficient&#039; collapse of the world economy would require a reduction of the current 6.6 billion world population by, let&#039;s say, 25-50 percent (and the longer the collapse, the more the reduction).
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(eric) again (in a way) it&#8217;s not that I&#8217;m deaf to peak oil.  I&#8217;ve read maybe six books on the subject and thought about it a lot.</p>
<p>When you include the Athabasca tar sands, Canada&#8217;s reserves are second only to Saudi Arabia.  Now one caveat is that not all of that is recoverable with current methods.  But huge amounts are.  And, as I investigated it, predictions that Canada will go from 1 b bbl/yr to 3 &#8211; i.e. tripling their output &#8211; seem very realistic.</p>
<p>Another problem/caveat though (let&#8217;s put as many facts up front as possible) is that the current methods are very water (and energy) intensive.  Northern Canada has plenty of water but some people are already worrying that water availability is going to impact oil extraction from tar sands.</p>
<p>In sum though, I don&#8217;t think Canada is going to peak anytime soon.</p>
<p>Ghawar may be in decline (and if so, generally it&#8217;s steep) although the Saudis would of course never cop to this.</p>
<p>But the Saudis (and their Am and European precursors) having been going at Ghawar for a long time.  The Canadian tar sands have been barely touched.</p>
<p>The point is to buy ourselves time while we hopefully get a better handle on energy consumption in general and develop new technologies.  Without a collapse of the world economy.  A conservative guess is that a &#8217;sufficient&#8217; collapse of the world economy would require a reduction of the current 6.6 billion world population by, let&#8217;s say, 25-50 percent (and the longer the collapse, the more the reduction).</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff B</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/05/oil-exporters-are-unable-to-keep-up-with-demand/comment-page-1/#comment-88396</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 May 2008 20:49:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigpicture.dev.wilder.ca/blog/2008/05/oil-exporters-are-unable-to-keep-up-with-demand/#comment-88396</guid>
		<description>I think one distinction that bears fleshing out is the control of reserves by states as opposed to private companies.  States can easily have a different set of incentives (e.g., macro/exchange rate stability, long-term economic diversification or simply political goals) that result in a backward bending supply curve.  It&#039;s no secret that many of the state-dominated producers -- Mexico, Venezuela, Russia, etc. -- have underinvested in upstream production for many years.  Russia has oil export duties that effectively siphon off any additional profit above $35/bbl.  Kazakhstan has recently followed suit with similar export duties.  In terms of promoting macro stability (i.e., avoiding excessive real exchange rate appreciation as a result of oil-related revenues), this has actually been a reasonably effective policy in Russia (combined with the saving of oil-related revenue off shore in the stabilization fund).  However, it&#039;s come at the cost of new production capacity.

Russia is at least considering changes in these oil export duties and there are efforts by the Mexican gov&#039;t to loosen restrictions on foreign investment but this is still very politically sensitive.  Venezuela&#039;s PDVSA can&#039;t invest because it has to spend on social programs.  Russia&#039;s Gazprom, for that matter, has to pay for a winter olympics in 2012.

Finally, even the private companies&#039; incentives have not changed as dramatically as prices have increased.  This is because of capital budgeting constraints.  Exxon is famous for being very conservative in its capital budgeting having learned very hard lessons from the 1980s oil bust.  The market has consistently rewarded this approach with a very high price/bbl reserve ratio.  Most of the private majors invest in projects that are profitable at relatively low prices.  These use to be set as low as $18-20 bbl at the beginning of the decade.  You hear that there are some investments made on $50/bbl price assumptions but that&#039;s about it.  Even at $50/bbl much of the potential new deep sea production wouldn&#039;t be profitable.  Keep in mind, these prices need to materialize through the 20+ plus year life of the project so spot prices are not a particularly useful gauge.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think one distinction that bears fleshing out is the control of reserves by states as opposed to private companies.  States can easily have a different set of incentives (e.g., macro/exchange rate stability, long-term economic diversification or simply political goals) that result in a backward bending supply curve.  It&#8217;s no secret that many of the state-dominated producers &#8212; Mexico, Venezuela, Russia, etc. &#8212; have underinvested in upstream production for many years.  Russia has oil export duties that effectively siphon off any additional profit above $35/bbl.  Kazakhstan has recently followed suit with similar export duties.  In terms of promoting macro stability (i.e., avoiding excessive real exchange rate appreciation as a result of oil-related revenues), this has actually been a reasonably effective policy in Russia (combined with the saving of oil-related revenue off shore in the stabilization fund).  However, it&#8217;s come at the cost of new production capacity.</p>
<p>Russia is at least considering changes in these oil export duties and there are efforts by the Mexican gov&#8217;t to loosen restrictions on foreign investment but this is still very politically sensitive.  Venezuela&#8217;s PDVSA can&#8217;t invest because it has to spend on social programs.  Russia&#8217;s Gazprom, for that matter, has to pay for a winter olympics in 2012.</p>
<p>Finally, even the private companies&#8217; incentives have not changed as dramatically as prices have increased.  This is because of capital budgeting constraints.  Exxon is famous for being very conservative in its capital budgeting having learned very hard lessons from the 1980s oil bust.  The market has consistently rewarded this approach with a very high price/bbl reserve ratio.  Most of the private majors invest in projects that are profitable at relatively low prices.  These use to be set as low as $18-20 bbl at the beginning of the decade.  You hear that there are some investments made on $50/bbl price assumptions but that&#8217;s about it.  Even at $50/bbl much of the potential new deep sea production wouldn&#8217;t be profitable.  Keep in mind, these prices need to materialize through the 20+ plus year life of the project so spot prices are not a particularly useful gauge.</p>
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		<title>By: patfla</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/05/oil-exporters-are-unable-to-keep-up-with-demand/comment-page-1/#comment-88395</link>
		<dc:creator>patfla</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 May 2008 20:48:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigpicture.dev.wilder.ca/blog/2008/05/oil-exporters-are-unable-to-keep-up-with-demand/#comment-88395</guid>
		<description>Sorry.  In my first poast re: Canada started mixing bbl per yr with per day.

If Canada goes to 3 bil bbl/yr that translates to 8.22 m bbl/day.  In a currently (approximate) market of 85 m bbl/day.

Which is huge.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry.  In my first poast re: Canada started mixing bbl per yr with per day.</p>
<p>If Canada goes to 3 bil bbl/yr that translates to 8.22 m bbl/day.  In a currently (approximate) market of 85 m bbl/day.</p>
<p>Which is huge.</p>
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