Nice discussion via Charlie Rose: Floyd Norris, Mohamed El-Erian, Gretchen Morgenson, Nouriel Roubini discuss the world’s biggest bailout: Fanny Mae and Freddie Mac
Hat tip, Paul!
Charlie Rose: Floyd Norris, Mohamed El-Erian, Gretchen Morgenson, Nouriel Roubini
September 10, 2008 3:30am by Barry Ritholtz
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Nouriel Roubini’s argument is the one most plausible and all the other guests arguments supported the status quo. The system needs to be allowed to fail; it is the only way that things will get washed out systemically. Once cleansed, we can build anew!
But what will happen is support after, support, after support, and in the end we will get the same result failure of the entire world economies. SO LET IT HAPPEN PEOPLE…THE SOONER THE BETTER.
Roubini echoes Rogoff who has argued that the whole world financial system, or at least the system in the West, needs to shrink and consolidate and de- leverage. The sooner the better.
Daily Mash has a good summation of the issue :-)
http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/international/us-becomes-world's-biggest-council-estate-200809081236/
Nouriel Roubini is so cool, he fires off his list of debtors like bullets from a machine gun.
His grasp on the situation is so complete and he articulates it so well and you know he’s done all the maths and read all the graphs and there just is nothing left in doubt.
Mohamed El-Erian sits there wishing he was not so compromised by working for Pimco and having to tow the line. Thinking how he’d much rather be teaming up with Nouriel and offering policy makers solutions that aren’t bailouts for the rich.
But he makes a good point China has options and could be the good son. Isn’t it a bit weird that the democratic west is looking to the non-democratic east for leadership and responsibility???
Charlie can have a show next month after the Dow drops under 10,000. Maybe have Greenspan on to reminisce about what it was like in 1987, and how todays environment isn’t his fault.
WOW! FREAKIN F***KIN WOWWWW
THAT WAS SOOO GOOD. the best I have ever seen. charlie rose was absolutely GOSMACKED.
you could FEEL the penny DROP111
Nouriel is CAPTAIN OT THE SHIP all eyes upon him, his every word is heard.
REALISATION…THIS IS THE MOMENT!
WTF! Roubini is on CNBC, and they won’t let him say anything… What a bunch of bias Cook-Suckers!!!
JTS,
That kind, of Roubini, of Reality would startle the 401k crowd.
As it is, the vast majority of them are still priming the Font of the Perpetual Bid, sending their statements, unopened, straight to the shredder, and “Hope”(-ing) for “Change”( or “Reform”).
CNBC, if nothing else, knows who their market is. Remember, it takes Genius to get away with looking so Stupid.
Thanks, Barry….As I wrote yesterday, everything else that is not related to the economic crisis should be cut to the bone in the national budget…Dept. of Agriculture, federal employment, since the Iraqi government wants us out we leave, etc.
Get spending down by the governement. If the people in Washington don’t know what to do, this is the best first idea.
If your family finances had this problem, what would you do? It really is that simple.
Bruce in Tennessee
Roubini was on squawk boc this AM – 9/10/2008, they did not let him speak, this guy has been right over and over, he predicted 1 trillion of losses and they laughed, he said you were right, its going to be more like 2 Trillion, no one wants to listen to the real news if its bad.
Bruce,
You keep sayin’ it’s so simple…
Still waitin’ for that list of trillion dollar cuts.
.
VJ..
It is simple if you must do it.
Journey of 1000 miles begins with a single…you know.
The alternative, allowing deficits to continue to massively increase, means eventually no one, not even the Chinese, buys treasuries..
If you and I can see it, others do too…the medicine just tastes bad.
What would be your first step?
Bruce in Tennessee
This was really excellent, especially in terms of reaching out to otherwise intelligent people who don’t “do” economics. I think MSM and Treasury are really scared of having too many people hear Roubini, but with the Charlie Rose show and the recent NYT mag article the cat is slowly being let out of the bag.
I have been gently trying to push this kind of material to my 401K friends who have been fed the buy-and-hold mantra, so that they will at least give this some thought. It is amazing how many otherwise smart people are still parroting the party line and think that financial blogs are beyond the pale. Of course these same people use tons of other on-line resources….
Bruce & VJ.,
I’d start by getting out of Iraq. I’d leave them a nice hand written note saying, “Sorry we f’d up your country for no real reason, but we’ve gotta go.” Then I’d cut the IRS and replace it with a flat tax, say 10% for everyone including businesses. After all, we’re in this mess together. Then sayonara to the Dept of Education. Oh, and an adios to the subsidies we’re giving the oil companies and the other U.S. businesses migrating jobs to other countries. How about we cut in half all the other economic aid we’re giving the planet? Sorry folks, business is bad, please take your cup to the Chinese, they have all our money. Ok, I figure that covers about 10% of what we need to cut, anyone else have any ideas?
well wasn’t that just a ray of morning sunshine!
our country seems doomed when faced with these major problems, American’s main concerns are
– gas prices, which should be much much higher to capture the negative externalities
and
– tax cuts, which will make our finances even worse
A little too much focus on the problem — which are all too well defined at this point — versus the solution.
The housing issue ultimately comes down to supply and demand. So, either we start bulldozing homes, or we open up the immigration throttle for the kinds of productive and intelligent people that we want to have in the U.S.
It’s not difficult to identify this solution, except for the fact that we’re in an election cycle and immigration is a third-rail issue that is easily confused and intentionally mis-spun. But…it is the only viable solution.
Immigration is the solution? Immigration is not a long term sustainable solution. I personally think it is not desirable to have an ever-increasing population with its associated crowding, increase in pollution, environmental degradation, and increased competition (and increasing prices) of resources.
We should be LOWERING our population not INCREASING it, and we’ll see an increase in our quality of life.
Jesuit Child,
“Then I’d cut the IRS and replace it with a flat tax, say 10% for everyone including businesses.”
Very BAD idea.
Even the originators of the misleadingly termed “Flat Tax”, Professors Robert Hall and Alvin Rabushka, freely admitted in the 1983 edition of their book, that the “Flat Tax” will be “a tremendous boon to the economic elite from the start“. In an appendix to the book, Hall and Rabushka estimated that their flat tax proposal would increase the tax bill for the lowest income families by 78 percent, and decrease it for the very richest families by 41 percent.
Throwing money at the Rich & Corporate has never worked economically.
Past studies have shown that with any form of consumption taxation (flat tax, national sales tax, VAT tax, etc.), that even with exemptions for food, medical care, drugs, and housing, the Middle-class would pay almost THREE times more of their income, proportionally, as the wealthy, and the poor would pay FIVE times more of their income, proportionally, as the wealthy.
.
Bruce,
“It is simple if you must do it.”
Great.
Then show us your list of cuts totaling a trillion dollars.
“What would be your first step?”
Reversing what created the massive federal budget deficits and debt: four rounds of tax cuts for the Rich & Corporate.
Talk about simple.
.
Is anyone really interested in making a difference? Willing to put forth more effort than occasional paragraphs on a blog?
Who is willing to file actions in Federal Court? It will cost you appx $295-$450 depending upon your area, but if enough of us get together we could make a difference.
The Presidential candidates and congress will be forced to address white collar crimes and the criminals who have just destroyed free market capitalism and our financial markets.
Just because the execs were smart enough to attempt to impute losses and liabilities to others does not mean they were not involved. Clearly, the execs were the masterminds.
My recently amended complaint
http://www.michaelblomquist.com/Docket/Document145.pdf
Instead of selling my clients into slavery and over-priced homes, having my agents commit fraud and breach fiduciary duties I closed my office in 2004. The median prices for homes in my country peaked at just under $900k…median price. It was and is insanity!
I have been trying to warn of the rampant fraud and deception for many years.
http://www.michaelblomquist.com/complaint/complaint%20exhibits.htm#b
http://www.michaelblomquist.com/complaint/complaint%20exhibits.htm
Send me an email and we can start discussing tactics. Under the APA act we can demand that regulators lose their jobs and there are many other avenues we could pursue in courts.
michaelsblomquist@gmail.com
Posted by: Todd | Sep 10, 2008 12:23:54 PM
Todd,
Malthus called, he wants you credit his Thesis: “Essay on the Principle of Population”
Posted by: VJ | Sep 10, 2008 12:37:08 PM
VJ,
Marx says you owe him Royalties, or you’re getting a C&D Letter from his Attorneys.
Those M&M’s will melt you into a Grave dug by your own hand.
The flat tax is only supported by stupid people or rich people.
It would be a disaster, for the reasons stated well here by others.
Mark,
“Marx says you owe him Royalties”
Ah, can’t substantiate your arguments, eh ?
.
VJ,
riddle me this: Which is the ‘First Principle’ you’d like to start with: 1) Government derives its Power from the Consent of the Governed. or 2) The Government is the Master of its People. (?)
It’s, really, one or the other, there is no middle ground fantasy-world of ‘mixed economy’, we are, either, at Liberty, or we are not Free.
Todd,
Who said the rich pay taxes? I guess you have to see it to believe it. A wealthy person’s financial structure is built around having to pay the least amount of taxes. High paid accountants and attorneys search through volumes of tax law to form a structure that avoids paying taxes. What is reported to the IRS is just a feeble amount that is credible enough to prevent an audit. So, if the world was built around text book theory, I would agree with you. But once you’re out in the real world and you see how it operates, a flat tax would squeeze the wealthy much more than you think.
Have to say -Roubini’s tone and accent just makes his very strong empirical case all the more lucid — everything he says seems like it’s etched in some kind of cosmic financial truth, not just an economist spouting.
Jim Rogers: America More Communist than China
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgsBDF_Lrg8
Posted by: VJ
“The Presidential candidates and congress will be forced to address white collar crimes and the criminals who have just destroyed free market capitalism and our financial markets.”
VJ – The Presidential candidates and congress ARE the white collar criminals.