"America is more communist than China is right now. You can see that
this is welfare of the rich, it is socialism for the rich… it’s just
bailing out financial institutions," Rogers said.

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See also:  Welcome to the U.S.S.R. (United States Socialist Republic)  Citigroup  (PDF)

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Jimmy_rogers_socialist

Category: Bailouts, Credit, Video

Please use the comments to demonstrate your own ignorance, unfamiliarity with empirical data and lack of respect for scientific knowledge. Be sure to create straw men and argue against things I have neither said nor implied. If you could repeat previously discredited memes or steer the conversation into irrelevant, off topic discussions, it would be appreciated. Lastly, kindly forgo all civility in your discourse . . . you are, after all, anonymous.

31 Responses to “Jim Rogers: “American Socialism for the Rich””

  1. maspablo says:

    Jim did move to China , though , i think he now lives in singapore. Did u ever notice the experts that speak up , are considered kooky . Rogers , Paul . while Buffet statements are hardly publicized or , down played ??

  2. Bob G. says:

    The insanity from 2003-2006 fueled by greed, stupidity and lack of regulation has put the world’s financial system at risk of melting down. Houses for everyone! Bailouts for everyone! These are the naive notions that could lead to hyperinflation and an eventual breakdown of the world economy into a Great Depression part II.

  3. Vermont Trader says:

    Yeah, he’s smart but he’s been telling everyone who can listen to buy Chinese stocks and they are down 50% this year.

    No one ever calls him out on this though.

    I bet he’s down a lot more than the “dumb money” that’s just long the SPX.

    Bear markets have a way of making everyone look dumb, even the bears.

  4. CNBC Sucks says:

    Jim Rogers is one of the few people for whom I would unmute my TV now that I can tolerate CNBC HD+ while I work. Robert Hirsch, Charles Maxwell, Matt Simmons, Scott Sperling, Steve Rattner, David Einhorn, Barry Ritholtz, there’s a few others. It’s about a 1 in 20 ratio, maybe worse, in terms of CNBC guests.

    I don’t know if that makes me an oil bull or a civilization bear, but we need a much greater proportion of realists before financial markets return to any semblance of normalcy. Just like the market post 1929. it might take a decade to wash out half a generation of Westburies. Capitulation is only a theory in technicians’ minds.

  5. JustinTheSkeptic says:

    Jimmy’s got gonads, yes big big balls!

  6. JustinTheSkeptic says:

    Bob G, “that could lead to hyperinflation”

    That will lead to HYPERINFLATION! The U.S. thinks that it is immune to such nonsense, but be ready because here it comes baby!

    OK, let me put the onus on you: how can it not lead to hyperinflation? I mean we’ve got bail-out nation going on! What money grows on trees to pay for this stuff and you don’t think there are not going to be a lot of un-needed apples falling on the ground and being scuffed up and re-instituted back into the system?

  7. JustinTheSkeptic says:

    I forgot to mention: why do you think the banks are rallying?

  8. JustinTheSkeptic says:

    Darn! regional banks, is what I ment… Anyhow, the Bulls are having heavenly dreams of yesteryear!!! That’s why.

  9. JustinTheSkeptic says:

    OK guys and gals, have to admit I might be wrong on this one because I just read an article about the bond market looking toward “deflation.” Is the bond market always right? If they are isn’t the stock market all wrong?

  10. leftback says:

    Justin:

    too much coffee, dude? the regionals are smelling a rate cut – so trade carefully.

    VT Trader said:

    “Bear markets have a way of making everyone look dumb, even the bears”

    True, true. The problem is you have to trade what you see, and what the Fed does and all of the other interference and not trade your hypothesis. Your ego can lose you a lot of money, but your charts can make it for you.

    As far as I am concerned the XLF can stay in a trading range between 20 and 22 forever and we can all just get rich!!

    Do you sit out until after the FED meeting or do you have alternate trades set up?
    Just wondering.

  11. leftback says:

    Justin: the bond market is right more often than the stock market. We are on the “D” train, as in deflation.

    But there will be detours, and the beatings will continue until morale improves.

  12. Dave says:

    Did you notice what a calm conversation this was? No one was talking over the other or yelling at anyone! Nice to see some cool heads out there.

  13. CNBC Sucks says:

    @Dave: It’s Saturday and it’s early yet.

    @Vermont Trader: If Rogers is telling everyone to go long China, that wouldn’t make Rogers exclusively a bear, but a China bull. If he were a true bear, he would be long cash all year and then he can outperform SPX, at least in nominal terms. Also, acknowledging that you and many of the peeps here are traders, I take some exception to a 9-month investment horizon, although I must admit that 50% to the downside is steep.

  14. km4 says:

    “This is madness, this is insanity, they have more than doubled the American national debt in one weekend for a bunch of crooks and incompetents. I’m not quite sure why I or anybody else should be paying for this,” Rogers told “Squawk Box Europe.”

    This is a severe body blow to the fast diminishing Middle Class America.

    They might not know it yet but they will in near future !

  15. Richard says:

    I believe Jim recently sparked a rally in airline stocks with some positive comments. Those that also listened to him when he called the bull market in commodities, years ago, are happy investors.

  16. ? says:

    Now we all read this blog for the same reason; we all work hard and want to get ahead in life, but the rules keep changing to suit the few, and the ruling “families” in politics. So we never get anywhere.
    So now that we have the fiat dollar and the rule book suited for wallstreet and every special interest represented in washington, what can be done to restore the level playing field ?
    Well what if we did something similar in finance as to what open source is to the software market ? disruptive business, disruptive finance. What if we all decided to make our own world wide currency, and started to trade in this currency ? And we made an organisation like what w3o is to the software industri; open protocol that all agree on. Think about it! I leave the details to the brilliant minds on this site!

  17. BG says:

    It is quite revealing when you have to go to Singapore and Europe to get a true assessment of what is going on in the United States of America.

    Things are so out of balance in this Country, I am afraid we have already lost her. There is now so much greed, politics and social conflicts among us, I don’t think we will ever get all Americans united with a common goal and purpose as we have for the most part enjoyed in years past.

    We are too conflicted even while facing obvious problems which can no longer be ignored. We no longer commit to sacrifice for the benefit of the many (Country); but instead focus only on the personal gain of the few.

    Expect to see a decrease in the stature of the US around the world as our overall significance and influence is greatly diminished.

    By outsourcing all of our manufacturing capability over the last 30 years and bankrupting the Country for generations to come, we have now completed the circle and made ourselves total inept for decades.

  18. John(2) says:

    Guys, Rogers has an axe to grind. He’s sitting in Singapore making millions from shorting. That’s not to say he doesn’t have some interesting things to say and that part of them are not totally accurate. They just need to be placed in context. I’ve met him a few times and know one or two members of his family and I can assure you the landing space for flies is very limited.

  19. Socialist says:

    It is clear for me that Americans don’t have a clue about the difference between communism and socialism. Something that is taught in social studies at 10th level grade around the world. Sad,sad,sad.

  20. Robert says:

    I really like Jim. But this comment is over the top wrong. The Chinese aren’t capitalist.

  21. Dave says:

    Rogers is a joke. A former wall st. guy who made millions as a trader but never contributed any hard work to society. Now he runs off to Asia and starts hurling invective at the US. Way to go buddy.

    ~~~

    : I disagree completely.

  22. John(2) says:

    Socialist | Sep 13, 2008 11:53:14 AM

    You’re right, they don’t but you have to remember Socialist and Communist are words used to frighten the children. Don’t go out after dark or the big bad socialists will come and get you. Oooooooh no mummy don’t send me out in the dark. It’s all so friggin juvenile. In fact Federal and State government practice state “socialism” all the time whether it’s handing out huge subsidies to big ag or taking disabled schoolchildren to school in special buses. For some reason large numbers of Americans live in some sort of comic book world of their own imagining.

  23. Brian says:

    You have to love the guy–says things people can only dream about saying on TV.

    Couple things about these posts:
    1. Singapore is NOT China.
    2. China is not Communist.
    3. America is a health system away from Socialism.
    4. Lastly, God and our forefathers gave us a mouth for a reason–one of them is to use it when things are BAD–things are BAD in America–it’s about time some of you used what God gave you like Jim is….

  24. DL says:

    I’m as much opposed to all these bailouts as most of the other TBP readers. But there is a political issue. Suppose that there had been no bailout of Bear Stearns, or of FRE and FNM, and that as a result, housing prices and stock market indexes had taken a much bigger fall than they have. What would Obama say? He would say that the economic conditions prove the proposition that lowering marginal tax rates on the top 1% (of incomes) cause economic downturns, and that raising marginal tax rates on the top 1% cause economic growth to increase. And I think that most voters would believe him.

  25. Bob Morrfis says:

    No, it’s not socialism, it’s plutocracy.

    In socialism, the people (at least theoretically) own the means of production and have a major say in how they are run.

    In plutocracy, money and state merge together and become one while there is a huge, growing disparity between rich and poor.

  26. peter says:

    as an outsider (non american) i see many flaws in the way things are done in the states. the states is the only country i know where executives can make decision and not be held criminally liable. reckless lending, bad decisions etc…. why do you not see all these top executives in jail ?? why are their no prudent lending mechanisims in place etc… many countries have legally established lending criteria that have in fact avoided this sub prime debacle, why is the states so far behind the rest of the world in company accountability, lending practices and financial management ??? this attitude of dod eat dog or get as rich as you can as quickly as you can needs to be stopped.

  27. VJ says:

    DL,

    He would say that the economic conditions prove the proposition that lowering marginal tax rates on the top 1% (of incomes) cause economic downturns, and that raising marginal tax rates on the top 1% cause economic growth to increase. And I think that most voters would believe him.

    Well, let’s examine the historical record.

    A) The three times in the 20th Century that the failed RightWing theory of tax rate cuts for the Rich & Corporate were implemented, soon after the national economy either entered recession or slowed dramatically:

    * The first time, the national economy experienced a dramatic drop in GDP, less than 18 months after the tax rate cuts were enacted into law.

    * The second time the GDP plummeted a net 8.8% over the six subsequent quarters after the tax rate cuts.

    * And, of course, the fiasco of the past eight years of dismal failure.

    B) The two times of greatest economic prosperity in the 20th Century coincided with federal income taxation on the Rich & Corporate at the relative highest levels.

    Rather illuminating, eh ?
    .

  28. I have a lot of respect for Jim Rogers, who has been early and right often in his long career, but he is just being hyperbolic and a little disingenuous here. To worry about socialism with the GSEs now, 70 years after FDR created Fannie Mae, is a little much. The only reason Fannie was quasi-privatized in the first place (by LBJ) was to keep its debt off the federal government’s books, as federal borrowing swelled due to LBJ’s guns & butter policies.

    Due to the limits on the size of the mortgages the GSEs buy, the primary beneficiaries of the takeover of Fannie and Freddie earlier this week are middle class borrowers, not the rich. Mortgage rates have already declined by about 30 basis points since the takeover.

  29. Anonymous says:

    Regarding the bond market and deflation, we are already in a worldwide deflation. Just look at almost every worldwide stock index. Most people have been fooled by high commodity prices into thinking we are in inflationary times. The recent inflation in commodities prices was for two reasons: (1) the massive global inflationary forces (cheap money) unleashed this decade finally catching up with commodities and leading to higher prices and (2) speculation by those who didn’t want equities that commodities would continue to increase in value. This is not inflation. It is a head fake. The body is moving lockstep with deflation.

    So, basically, we’re in deflation right now. Don’t mistake that. And the bond market sees that. But please don’t take this to mean that we will continue to be in deflation. It will soon occur to the politicians that our entire banking system is about to implode and the only possible way to recapitalize the banks is to hyperinflate the currency. The US really is different because it has the reserve currency and its debts are denominated in its own currency. Trust me, if the democracy has to choose between buying fewer plasma TVs or screwing China’s central bank through hyperinflation of the dollar and a dramatic currency revaluation, the democracy is going to choose to screw China’s central bank. Do NOT threaten their plasma TVs. It will get ugly if you do.

    By the way, if this does indeed play out as I suggest, equities in China will be a huge winner and the temporary (though large drop) in their value over the last year will seem irrelevant in the long run. FWIW, I don’t own any such equities because I fear the risk of investing in a communist country, but they seem to be very attractively priced right now.

  30. CathyG says:

    “No, it’s not socialism, it’s plutocracy.”

    No, it’s not plutocracy, it’s kleptocracy: rule by thieves.

    Not content with the loot to be made on Wall Street, the banker gangsters are now demanding and, too often, getting a direct IV line to the national treasury.

    I don’t think even that will be enough to satisfy their greed.

  31. VennData says:

    Jim Roger’s statement that we’ve increased the debt by five to six trillion is incorrect, it depends on how much the mortgages that will pay off that GSE mortgage holdings are worth and nobody knows that.

    We do know that currently, the loss difference is greater than the capital of the GSEs. And Jim Roger’s right that we do have bankruptcy courts and we could reorganize their debts. But…

    Bush/Paulson did it because if the GSEs went to bankruptcy the spike in US interest rates would end the government’s ability to finance their massive increase in debts and it’s not five trillion it’s closer to ten trillion (and that’s just Federal.)