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	<title>Comments on: California Real Estate: Big $ Drops, Big Sale Increases</title>
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	<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/10/california-real-estate-big-drops-big-sale-increases/</link>
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		<title>By: Pacific Views</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/10/california-real-estate-big-drops-big-sale-increases/comment-page-1/#comment-123677</link>
		<dc:creator>Pacific Views</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Oct 2008 02:33:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ritholtz.vs3.wilder.ca/blog/2008/10/california-real-estate-big-drops-big-sale-increases/#comment-123677</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;California Housing Woes&lt;/strong&gt;

California has been ground zero for bubble and bust mortgage market. From the WSJ, one can see how extensive and destructive the past five years have been. In this view, the deep red county is Merced, with 84% of the...
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>California Housing Woes</strong></p>
<p>California has been ground zero for bubble and bust mortgage market. From the WSJ, one can see how extensive and destructive the past five years have been. In this view, the deep red county is Merced, with 84% of the&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: latesummer2009</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/10/california-real-estate-big-drops-big-sale-increases/comment-page-1/#comment-120176</link>
		<dc:creator>latesummer2009</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Oct 2008 18:19:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ritholtz.vs3.wilder.ca/blog/2008/10/california-real-estate-big-drops-big-sale-increases/#comment-120176</guid>
		<description>Increase in volume and drastically lower prices means one thing. People are waiting for big discounts on over-inflated property. Foreclosure sales have increased while non-foreclosure sales have decreased. All this does is, condition buyers into waiting for prices to drop, reflecting more fundamental values, rather than mere speculation. Bubble area markets will have to drop by 50% (from peak) in order to see buyers return. That is what has happened in Los Banos, and will happen elswhere.

Affluent areas that have over-inflated will correct (50% off peak), if not more, as the market tends to overshoot in the end. AThese neighborhoods have always been and will continue to be, the last ones to fall.

http://www.westsideremeltdown.blogspot.com
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Increase in volume and drastically lower prices means one thing. People are waiting for big discounts on over-inflated property. Foreclosure sales have increased while non-foreclosure sales have decreased. All this does is, condition buyers into waiting for prices to drop, reflecting more fundamental values, rather than mere speculation. Bubble area markets will have to drop by 50% (from peak) in order to see buyers return. That is what has happened in Los Banos, and will happen elswhere.</p>
<p>Affluent areas that have over-inflated will correct (50% off peak), if not more, as the market tends to overshoot in the end. AThese neighborhoods have always been and will continue to be, the last ones to fall.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.westsideremeltdown.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.westsideremeltdown.blogspot.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: Greg0658</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/10/california-real-estate-big-drops-big-sale-increases/comment-page-1/#comment-120175</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg0658</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Oct 2008 14:25:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ritholtz.vs3.wilder.ca/blog/2008/10/california-real-estate-big-drops-big-sale-increases/#comment-120175</guid>
		<description>fresnodan - you could consider the Illinois Valley
(see community college site; since we are a hodge podge of small communities; similar but smaller version of the Chicago area)
http://www.ivcc.edu/

I don&#039;t think I&#039;m out of line inviting your big city gained wealth into our community; spiking inflation in housing and other needs for/on the current residents that live on small town salaries. We understand &quot;its the way that it is&quot;.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>fresnodan &#8211; you could consider the Illinois Valley<br />
(see community college site; since we are a hodge podge of small communities; similar but smaller version of the Chicago area)<br />
<a href="http://www.ivcc.edu/" rel="nofollow">http://www.ivcc.edu/</a></p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think I&#8217;m out of line inviting your big city gained wealth into our community; spiking inflation in housing and other needs for/on the current residents that live on small town salaries. We understand &#8220;its the way that it is&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: fresnodan</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/10/california-real-estate-big-drops-big-sale-increases/comment-page-1/#comment-120174</link>
		<dc:creator>fresnodan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Oct 2008 12:58:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ritholtz.vs3.wilder.ca/blog/2008/10/california-real-estate-big-drops-big-sale-increases/#comment-120174</guid>
		<description>I retire in 3 years (I am in Maryland now), and I started looking at real estate prices in Fresno 2 years ago.  I despaired of retiring to Fresno as home prices were just bizarre - to make retirement work I need to live somewhere with a low cost of housing.
Now that prices are reverting to the mean, it looks like I will be able to retire in my home town.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I retire in 3 years (I am in Maryland now), and I started looking at real estate prices in Fresno 2 years ago.  I despaired of retiring to Fresno as home prices were just bizarre &#8211; to make retirement work I need to live somewhere with a low cost of housing.<br />
Now that prices are reverting to the mean, it looks like I will be able to retire in my home town.</p>
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		<title>By: Brandon</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/10/california-real-estate-big-drops-big-sale-increases/comment-page-1/#comment-120173</link>
		<dc:creator>Brandon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Oct 2008 03:41:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ritholtz.vs3.wilder.ca/blog/2008/10/california-real-estate-big-drops-big-sale-increases/#comment-120173</guid>
		<description>&quot;@Chuck, environmentalism has almost nothing to do with the anti-growth stuff that&#039;s happened on the CA coast from Monterey to Marin. Rather, it&#039;s a product of the wealthy and established &quot;I got mine, you go away&quot; crowd preserving their selfish lifestyle of driving BMWs and Mercedes and flying to Europe while talking about the environment.&quot;

Exactly right.  The high housing costs have little to do with environmentalism and EVERYTHING to do with low-density dogma in Sacramento and tons of metropolitan suburban communities throughout the state.

I&#039;ve lived in San Francisco and San Diego, and in San Diego every time someone&#039;s tried to put up a high-density condo development, there&#039;s instant outrage from the neighbors who scream about: a) falling home prices (increased supply), b) increased traffic (well...maybe we have been relying too much on car transport), c) &quot;greedy developers&quot; trying to destroy the suburban way of life and &quot;force us to live in little boxes&quot;.

When all you can build is McMansions....it&#039;s not surprising that you run out of space and have to start building hours away from businesses.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;@Chuck, environmentalism has almost nothing to do with the anti-growth stuff that&#8217;s happened on the CA coast from Monterey to Marin. Rather, it&#8217;s a product of the wealthy and established &#8220;I got mine, you go away&#8221; crowd preserving their selfish lifestyle of driving BMWs and Mercedes and flying to Europe while talking about the environment.&#8221;</p>
<p>Exactly right.  The high housing costs have little to do with environmentalism and EVERYTHING to do with low-density dogma in Sacramento and tons of metropolitan suburban communities throughout the state.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve lived in San Francisco and San Diego, and in San Diego every time someone&#8217;s tried to put up a high-density condo development, there&#8217;s instant outrage from the neighbors who scream about: a) falling home prices (increased supply), b) increased traffic (well&#8230;maybe we have been relying too much on car transport), c) &#8220;greedy developers&#8221; trying to destroy the suburban way of life and &#8220;force us to live in little boxes&#8221;.</p>
<p>When all you can build is McMansions&#8230;.it&#8217;s not surprising that you run out of space and have to start building hours away from businesses.</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/10/california-real-estate-big-drops-big-sale-increases/comment-page-1/#comment-120172</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Oct 2008 22:41:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ritholtz.vs3.wilder.ca/blog/2008/10/california-real-estate-big-drops-big-sale-increases/#comment-120172</guid>
		<description>@Chuck, environmentalism has almost nothing to do with the anti-growth stuff that&#039;s happened on the CA coast from Monterey to Marin. Rather, it&#039;s a product of the wealthy and established &quot;I got mine, you go away&quot; crowd preserving their selfish lifestyle of driving BMWs and Mercedes and flying to Europe while talking about the environment.

Elitist Bay Area politics conveys a &quot;Let them eat cake&quot; attitude while not realistically dealing with all the people, jobs, and issues next door. (Including SF/SJ traffic being a major cause of the pollution in Los Banos and Sacramento.)

What about the tons of CO2 dumped into the atmosphere from the gridlocked cars coming in from Tracy and Gilroy every day? The anti-growth folks just made the environmental problems worse! Is the open space worth global warming? Is the open space worth forcing half the population to commute so much?

On the subject of open space, have you ever been to Japan? They pack 125 million people into an area the size of California and preserve gobs and gobs of open space. The urban areas in Japan are sprawling messes (akin to Los Angeles) but development EFFICIENTLY stays in the established urban areas and stops cold at the tree covered hills. They have a public transit system that makes BART look like a toy. They don&#039;t force people to drive 100 miles a day to Los Banos just to sleep on once prime farmland.

Of course, head-in-the-sand politics is nothing new for California. The state government is broke, incoherent, and lost. I&#039;m curious to see how things go in this recession, and am feeling a bit of schadenfreude for California.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Chuck, environmentalism has almost nothing to do with the anti-growth stuff that&#8217;s happened on the CA coast from Monterey to Marin. Rather, it&#8217;s a product of the wealthy and established &#8220;I got mine, you go away&#8221; crowd preserving their selfish lifestyle of driving BMWs and Mercedes and flying to Europe while talking about the environment.</p>
<p>Elitist Bay Area politics conveys a &#8220;Let them eat cake&#8221; attitude while not realistically dealing with all the people, jobs, and issues next door. (Including SF/SJ traffic being a major cause of the pollution in Los Banos and Sacramento.)</p>
<p>What about the tons of CO2 dumped into the atmosphere from the gridlocked cars coming in from Tracy and Gilroy every day? The anti-growth folks just made the environmental problems worse! Is the open space worth global warming? Is the open space worth forcing half the population to commute so much?</p>
<p>On the subject of open space, have you ever been to Japan? They pack 125 million people into an area the size of California and preserve gobs and gobs of open space. The urban areas in Japan are sprawling messes (akin to Los Angeles) but development EFFICIENTLY stays in the established urban areas and stops cold at the tree covered hills. They have a public transit system that makes BART look like a toy. They don&#8217;t force people to drive 100 miles a day to Los Banos just to sleep on once prime farmland.</p>
<p>Of course, head-in-the-sand politics is nothing new for California. The state government is broke, incoherent, and lost. I&#8217;m curious to see how things go in this recession, and am feeling a bit of schadenfreude for California.</p>
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		<title>By: weinerdog43</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/10/california-real-estate-big-drops-big-sale-increases/comment-page-1/#comment-120171</link>
		<dc:creator>weinerdog43</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Oct 2008 22:15:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ritholtz.vs3.wilder.ca/blog/2008/10/california-real-estate-big-drops-big-sale-increases/#comment-120171</guid>
		<description>Anecdotal evidence:

Here in the western &#039;burbs of Chicago, they are still tearing down $400,000 houses to replace them w/$2.5M houses.  The best part that is although the houses were moving about a year ago, not anymore.  While I will not dispute that the new home is beautiful, the fact is that your taxes are going to be over $25,000 per year.  And that does not include your monthly nut.  Good luck folks!
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anecdotal evidence:</p>
<p>Here in the western &#8216;burbs of Chicago, they are still tearing down $400,000 houses to replace them w/$2.5M houses.  The best part that is although the houses were moving about a year ago, not anymore.  While I will not dispute that the new home is beautiful, the fact is that your taxes are going to be over $25,000 per year.  And that does not include your monthly nut.  Good luck folks!</p>
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		<title>By: Pat G.</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/10/california-real-estate-big-drops-big-sale-increases/comment-page-1/#comment-120170</link>
		<dc:creator>Pat G.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Oct 2008 21:58:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ritholtz.vs3.wilder.ca/blog/2008/10/california-real-estate-big-drops-big-sale-increases/#comment-120170</guid>
		<description>I guess I just never understood the lure of California.  Too congested for me.  And then there&#039;s the Santa Ana winds, fires, mudslides and earthquakes.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess I just never understood the lure of California.  Too congested for me.  And then there&#8217;s the Santa Ana winds, fires, mudslides and earthquakes.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim D</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/10/california-real-estate-big-drops-big-sale-increases/comment-page-1/#comment-120169</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim D</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Oct 2008 21:41:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ritholtz.vs3.wilder.ca/blog/2008/10/california-real-estate-big-drops-big-sale-increases/#comment-120169</guid>
		<description>The SFBay area (one of the grey areas in that chart) still has prices that are too high to buy things as rental properties (with at least a 5% return).  But some areas are getting close.

Santa Teresa, on the butt-end of San Jose, has houses going for $425k that went for $720k just two years ago.  But they still need to fall to $325k to make sense as rentals.

If you think they don&#039;t have to, you really shouldn&#039;t be a landlord - you&#039;ll lose your shirt.

My guess?  They go below that, as rents fall during a hard recession.  If we avoid the hard recession (fat chance), they&#039;ll &quot;only&quot; fall to $325k.

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The SFBay area (one of the grey areas in that chart) still has prices that are too high to buy things as rental properties (with at least a 5% return).  But some areas are getting close.</p>
<p>Santa Teresa, on the butt-end of San Jose, has houses going for $425k that went for $720k just two years ago.  But they still need to fall to $325k to make sense as rentals.</p>
<p>If you think they don&#8217;t have to, you really shouldn&#8217;t be a landlord &#8211; you&#8217;ll lose your shirt.</p>
<p>My guess?  They go below that, as rents fall during a hard recession.  If we avoid the hard recession (fat chance), they&#8217;ll &#8220;only&#8221; fall to $325k.</p>
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		<title>By: skewed</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/10/california-real-estate-big-drops-big-sale-increases/comment-page-1/#comment-120168</link>
		<dc:creator>skewed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Oct 2008 21:31:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ritholtz.vs3.wilder.ca/blog/2008/10/california-real-estate-big-drops-big-sale-increases/#comment-120168</guid>
		<description>@Chuck, yes, there was a selenium problem near Los Banos, in a wildlife (mainly migratory fowl) refuge, no less. I used to pass through there on my way to Yosemite quite often, ~35 years ago.  At the time, I was a quasi-hippie living in a funky section of Palo Alto.
@John, yes, we tree-huggers on the SF Peninsula have preserved a lot of open space, which had the (unintended?) effect of driving home prices up. I&#039;m happily semi-retired here, but it will be tough for my kids to stay.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Chuck, yes, there was a selenium problem near Los Banos, in a wildlife (mainly migratory fowl) refuge, no less. I used to pass through there on my way to Yosemite quite often, ~35 years ago.  At the time, I was a quasi-hippie living in a funky section of Palo Alto.<br />
@John, yes, we tree-huggers on the SF Peninsula have preserved a lot of open space, which had the (unintended?) effect of driving home prices up. I&#8217;m happily semi-retired here, but it will be tough for my kids to stay.</p>
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