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	<title>Comments on: Fundamental Analysts Belated Downgrades</title>
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	<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/11/belated-downgrades/</link>
	<description>Macro Perspective on the Capital Markets, Economy, Geopolitics, Technology, and Digital Media</description>
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		<title>By: aidyn kussainov</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/11/belated-downgrades/comment-page-1/#comment-127314</link>
		<dc:creator>aidyn kussainov</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 19:07:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=9962#comment-127314</guid>
		<description>wow, selling X here - at the end of a perfect (as perfect as the get) 5th wave... down another 10%, possibly - then up to 100% gain.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>wow, selling X here &#8211; at the end of a perfect (as perfect as the get) 5th wave&#8230; down another 10%, possibly &#8211; then up to 100% gain.</p>
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		<title>By: Bruce in Tn</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/11/belated-downgrades/comment-page-1/#comment-127211</link>
		<dc:creator>Bruce in Tn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 13:02:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=9962#comment-127211</guid>
		<description>One final thought before going to the salt mine...

We still have one tax that needs to go into effect immediately....tax on imported oil...we need the governmental revenue, delays Obama&#039;s personal tax hikes, and continues us down the path of renewable energy and less foreign dependence on oil...need this one tax implemented now....

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/credit-crisis-low-gas-prices/story.aspx?guid={74F9D1AD-46D8-4BA9-8B2A-CB15C097425B}&amp;siteid=yhoof

Alternative energy bulls face bear market.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One final thought before going to the salt mine&#8230;</p>
<p>We still have one tax that needs to go into effect immediately&#8230;.tax on imported oil&#8230;we need the governmental revenue, delays Obama&#8217;s personal tax hikes, and continues us down the path of renewable energy and less foreign dependence on oil&#8230;need this one tax implemented now&#8230;.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/credit-crisis-low-gas-prices/story.aspx?guid=" rel="nofollow">http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/credit-crisis-low-gas-prices/story.aspx?guid=</a>{74F9D1AD-46D8-4BA9-8B2A-CB15C097425B}&amp;siteid=yhoof</p>
<p>Alternative energy bulls face bear market.</p>
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		<title>By: Bruce in Tn</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/11/belated-downgrades/comment-page-1/#comment-127210</link>
		<dc:creator>Bruce in Tn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 12:48:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=9962#comment-127210</guid>
		<description>OK...good morning...hump day.

The Big Picture is that the future for employment in the US is for lower wages and when this happens, we&#039;ll have jobs, but people will have to work harder, and longer to provide.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/19/business/economy/19ports.html?pagewanted=1&amp;_r=1&amp;ref=business

A Sea of Unwanted Imports 

Our labor pool and wages will be affected by immigrants and lower labor costs overseas...just as they are now...but in order to compete, we&#039;ll do the recycling of paper products here, and the things talked about in this article will come back to our shores...or we won&#039;t be competitive, and I don&#039;t think that will happen.  Of course, people in business for themselves will still do well, but people who work for others will continue to see stagnant wages and harder working conditions.  Occam&#039;s razor, this is the simple solution....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK&#8230;good morning&#8230;hump day.</p>
<p>The Big Picture is that the future for employment in the US is for lower wages and when this happens, we&#8217;ll have jobs, but people will have to work harder, and longer to provide.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/19/business/economy/19ports.html?pagewanted=1&amp;_r=1&amp;ref=business" rel="nofollow">http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/19/business/economy/19ports.html?pagewanted=1&amp;_r=1&amp;ref=business</a></p>
<p>A Sea of Unwanted Imports </p>
<p>Our labor pool and wages will be affected by immigrants and lower labor costs overseas&#8230;just as they are now&#8230;but in order to compete, we&#8217;ll do the recycling of paper products here, and the things talked about in this article will come back to our shores&#8230;or we won&#8217;t be competitive, and I don&#8217;t think that will happen.  Of course, people in business for themselves will still do well, but people who work for others will continue to see stagnant wages and harder working conditions.  Occam&#8217;s razor, this is the simple solution&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Bruce in Tn</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/11/belated-downgrades/comment-page-1/#comment-127176</link>
		<dc:creator>Bruce in Tn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 02:44:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=9962#comment-127176</guid>
		<description>Jurgen:

I was just kidding about the bailout gathering steam.  NOT.  So you don&#039;t think every pig isn&#039;t muscling his way to the trough who can do so?

My grandkids will probably dig me up so they can pee on my remains......

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27791141/

CEOs urge $500B stimulus from Obama</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jurgen:</p>
<p>I was just kidding about the bailout gathering steam.  NOT.  So you don&#8217;t think every pig isn&#8217;t muscling his way to the trough who can do so?</p>
<p>My grandkids will probably dig me up so they can pee on my remains&#8230;&#8230;</p>
<p><a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27791141/" rel="nofollow">http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27791141/</a></p>
<p>CEOs urge $500B stimulus from Obama</p>
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		<title>By: DP</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/11/belated-downgrades/comment-page-1/#comment-127158</link>
		<dc:creator>DP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 00:59:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=9962#comment-127158</guid>
		<description>Not a bad thing to take money off the table while there&#039;s still a table.

I can&#039;t find a single article, person, blog commenter or &quot;expert&quot; who says it is time to buy financials. Maybe that means it is time to buy financials.

Not a recommendation, I also smoke and used to sky dive :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not a bad thing to take money off the table while there&#8217;s still a table.</p>
<p>I can&#8217;t find a single article, person, blog commenter or &#8220;expert&#8221; who says it is time to buy financials. Maybe that means it is time to buy financials.</p>
<p>Not a recommendation, I also smoke and used to sky dive <img src='http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Bob_in_MA</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/11/belated-downgrades/comment-page-1/#comment-127157</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob_in_MA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 00:49:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=9962#comment-127157</guid>
		<description>I has a put spread on US Steel of like 160/140 for JAN 2010. It cashed out a couple months ago. I made 60-75%, but talk about leaving money on the table! That steel bubble was probably the last great short opportunity of this market. Oh, well. Better luck next crisis...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I has a put spread on US Steel of like 160/140 for JAN 2010. It cashed out a couple months ago. I made 60-75%, but talk about leaving money on the table! That steel bubble was probably the last great short opportunity of this market. Oh, well. Better luck next crisis&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Winston Munn</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/11/belated-downgrades/comment-page-1/#comment-127156</link>
		<dc:creator>Winston Munn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 00:39:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=9962#comment-127156</guid>
		<description>Jurgen,

If you are so confident of the quality of these &quot;loans&quot;, I will gladly allow you to pay for my share of the bailout &quot;investments&quot;, let you take over 100% of the winnings and 100% of the losses.

Shake on it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jurgen,</p>
<p>If you are so confident of the quality of these &#8220;loans&#8221;, I will gladly allow you to pay for my share of the bailout &#8220;investments&#8221;, let you take over 100% of the winnings and 100% of the losses.</p>
<p>Shake on it?</p>
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		<title>By: AmenRa</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/11/belated-downgrades/comment-page-1/#comment-127155</link>
		<dc:creator>AmenRa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 00:38:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=9962#comment-127155</guid>
		<description>What if the lows in 2002 aren&#039;t the lows from the dot com bust? The housing bubble was inflated before all of the air left the dot com bubble. This is what has me worried. The actual low from the bubble has yet to be reached.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What if the lows in 2002 aren&#8217;t the lows from the dot com bust? The housing bubble was inflated before all of the air left the dot com bubble. This is what has me worried. The actual low from the bubble has yet to be reached.</p>
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		<title>By: babycondor</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/11/belated-downgrades/comment-page-1/#comment-127152</link>
		<dc:creator>babycondor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Nov 2008 23:53:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=9962#comment-127152</guid>
		<description>leftback:

if the bank stocks go to zero, does the bank not still have physical assets, customers, employees, and some role to play in the real world economy? therefore are not the loans at least theoretically recoverable, if the bank changes its game plan? if we flushed the existing banks, who would staff the new banks? employees and management of the old banks, right? same old wine , new bottles, new playbook. 

there seems to be this huge disconnect in many traders&#039; minds (understandably) between &quot;stocks&quot; (virtual casino chips)  and actual companies.  i imagine this is why the stock market is acting so schizo these days.

re zombies: most large Japanese banks were only able to comply with capital standards because regulators were lax. the banks engaged in sham loan restructurings that kept credit flowing to otherwise insolvent borrowers. thus, the normal competitive outcome whereby the zombies would lay off workers and lose market share was thwarted. i do not see the same situation occurring here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>leftback:</p>
<p>if the bank stocks go to zero, does the bank not still have physical assets, customers, employees, and some role to play in the real world economy? therefore are not the loans at least theoretically recoverable, if the bank changes its game plan? if we flushed the existing banks, who would staff the new banks? employees and management of the old banks, right? same old wine , new bottles, new playbook. </p>
<p>there seems to be this huge disconnect in many traders&#8217; minds (understandably) between &#8220;stocks&#8221; (virtual casino chips)  and actual companies.  i imagine this is why the stock market is acting so schizo these days.</p>
<p>re zombies: most large Japanese banks were only able to comply with capital standards because regulators were lax. the banks engaged in sham loan restructurings that kept credit flowing to otherwise insolvent borrowers. thus, the normal competitive outcome whereby the zombies would lay off workers and lose market share was thwarted. i do not see the same situation occurring here.</p>
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		<title>By: leftback</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/11/belated-downgrades/comment-page-1/#comment-127145</link>
		<dc:creator>leftback</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Nov 2008 23:08:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=9962#comment-127145</guid>
		<description>Jurgen, if the bank stocks go to zero, the funds will not be recoverable. Please see the history of Japanese zombie banks for the likely trajectory of the capital injections performed by the central bank.

We should do what Barry and Chris Whalen have suggested, and flush 90% of the existing banks and start new ones capitalized by Buffett and others who have saved their cash. This avoids moral hazard, punishes the guilty and allows for new banking capital to go to work in the economy.

UYG &lt; $6 now, another few weeks and it will be at zero....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jurgen, if the bank stocks go to zero, the funds will not be recoverable. Please see the history of Japanese zombie banks for the likely trajectory of the capital injections performed by the central bank.</p>
<p>We should do what Barry and Chris Whalen have suggested, and flush 90% of the existing banks and start new ones capitalized by Buffett and others who have saved their cash. This avoids moral hazard, punishes the guilty and allows for new banking capital to go to work in the economy.</p>
<p>UYG &lt; $6 now, another few weeks and it will be at zero&#8230;.</p>
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