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	<title>Comments on: Good News on Stock Options &amp; AMT</title>
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	<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/11/good-news-on-stock-options-amt/</link>
	<description>Macro Perspective on the Capital Markets, Economy, Geopolitics, Technology, and Digital Media</description>
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		<title>By: Barry Ritholtz</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/11/good-news-on-stock-options-amt/comment-page-1/#comment-125952</link>
		<dc:creator>Barry Ritholtz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Nov 2008 10:45:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=9261#comment-125952</guid>
		<description>Its more nuanced then that  -- what happens when, as an insider, you have a lock up agreement -- no sales for a 1 or 2 years after exercise? 

You did everything legally, but ended up with a giant loss,  and phantom income, and a big tax bill.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Its more nuanced then that  &#8212; what happens when, as an insider, you have a lock up agreement &#8212; no sales for a 1 or 2 years after exercise? </p>
<p>You did everything legally, but ended up with a giant loss,  and phantom income, and a big tax bill.</p>
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		<title>By: davecjohnson</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/11/good-news-on-stock-options-amt/comment-page-1/#comment-125951</link>
		<dc:creator>davecjohnson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Nov 2008 06:47:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=9261#comment-125951</guid>
		<description>This is GOOD news?

I had stock options in the 90&#039;s.  I sold stock to cover the tax at the time.  It cost me a little bit.  So I was a CHUMP.  The ones who decided to wait and not cover the taxes because stocks always go up and they wanted to clean up ... well now they get this bailout.

I did the right thing and I&#039;m out.  They were greedy, they win.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is GOOD news?</p>
<p>I had stock options in the 90&#8217;s.  I sold stock to cover the tax at the time.  It cost me a little bit.  So I was a CHUMP.  The ones who decided to wait and not cover the taxes because stocks always go up and they wanted to clean up &#8230; well now they get this bailout.</p>
<p>I did the right thing and I&#8217;m out.  They were greedy, they win.</p>
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		<title>By: KJ Foehr</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/11/good-news-on-stock-options-amt/comment-page-1/#comment-125948</link>
		<dc:creator>KJ Foehr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Nov 2008 04:32:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=9261#comment-125948</guid>
		<description>(off-topic)

Now it’s the e-bully pulpit (or is that the bully e-pulpit?)

Obama to pioneer Web outreach as president

By BETH FOUHY, Associated Press Writer Beth Fouhy, Associated Press Writer – Wed Nov 12, 6:10 pm (excerpt)
NEW YORK – Transition officials call it Obama 2.0 — an ambitious effort to transform the president-elect&#039;s vast Web operation and database of supporters into a modern new tool to accomplish his goals in the White House. If it works, the new president could have an unprecedented ability to appeal for help from millions of Americans who already favor his ideas, bypassing the news media to pressure Congress.
&quot;He&#039;s built the largest network anyone has ever seen in politics, and congressional Republicans are clueless about the communications shift that has happened,&quot; Democratic strategist Joe Trippi proclaims. The results, he says, &quot;will be amazing to watch.&quot;


Change has come to America!   

And it’s not just a slogan.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(off-topic)</p>
<p>Now it’s the e-bully pulpit (or is that the bully e-pulpit?)</p>
<p>Obama to pioneer Web outreach as president</p>
<p>By BETH FOUHY, Associated Press Writer Beth Fouhy, Associated Press Writer – Wed Nov 12, 6:10 pm (excerpt)<br />
NEW YORK – Transition officials call it Obama 2.0 — an ambitious effort to transform the president-elect&#8217;s vast Web operation and database of supporters into a modern new tool to accomplish his goals in the White House. If it works, the new president could have an unprecedented ability to appeal for help from millions of Americans who already favor his ideas, bypassing the news media to pressure Congress.<br />
&#8220;He&#8217;s built the largest network anyone has ever seen in politics, and congressional Republicans are clueless about the communications shift that has happened,&#8221; Democratic strategist Joe Trippi proclaims. The results, he says, &#8220;will be amazing to watch.&#8221;</p>
<p>Change has come to America!   </p>
<p>And it’s not just a slogan.</p>
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		<title>By: kaleberg</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/11/good-news-on-stock-options-amt/comment-page-1/#comment-125947</link>
		<dc:creator>kaleberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Nov 2008 04:31:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=9261#comment-125947</guid>
		<description>I also found out that you can get fully vested by dropping dead walking down the street. (This happened to a friend of mine, not me.) You pay taxes when you buy the options based on the difference between what you pay and what you would get that day if you sold. That sets the basis price. If it goes to zero, you get a tax loss. That isn&#039;t the same as winning big, but it can be worth something.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I also found out that you can get fully vested by dropping dead walking down the street. (This happened to a friend of mine, not me.) You pay taxes when you buy the options based on the difference between what you pay and what you would get that day if you sold. That sets the basis price. If it goes to zero, you get a tax loss. That isn&#8217;t the same as winning big, but it can be worth something.</p>
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		<title>By: DisciplinedInvesting</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/11/good-news-on-stock-options-amt/comment-page-1/#comment-125945</link>
		<dc:creator>DisciplinedInvesting</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Nov 2008 03:47:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=9261#comment-125945</guid>
		<description>BR,

You ask why the AMT option language is in the package. Tell me why this is in the package:
H. R. 1424—117, Subtitle B—Paul Wellstone and Pete Domenici Mental Health Parity and Addiction
Equity Act of 2008.

In the case of a group health plan (or health insurance coverage offered in connection with such a plan) that provides both medical and surgical benefits and mental health or substance use disorder benefits, such plan or coverage shall ensure that— 
‘‘(i) the financial requirements applicable to such mental health or substance use disorder benefits are no more restrictive than the predominant financial requirements applied to substantially all medical and
surgical benefits covered by the plan (or coverage), and there are no separate cost sharing requirements
that are applicable only with respect to mental health or substance use disorder benefits; and
‘‘(ii) the treatment limitations applicable to such mental health or substance use disorder benefits are
no more restrictive than the predominant treatment limitations applied to substantially all medical and
surgical benefits covered by the plan (or coverage) and there are no separate treatment limitations that are applicable only with respect to mental health or substance use disorder benefits.

The above is another reason for employers to lay off employees now. Talk to any insurance agent and this will add an enormous cost burden to employers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BR,</p>
<p>You ask why the AMT option language is in the package. Tell me why this is in the package:<br />
H. R. 1424—117, Subtitle B—Paul Wellstone and Pete Domenici Mental Health Parity and Addiction<br />
Equity Act of 2008.</p>
<p>In the case of a group health plan (or health insurance coverage offered in connection with such a plan) that provides both medical and surgical benefits and mental health or substance use disorder benefits, such plan or coverage shall ensure that—<br />
‘‘(i) the financial requirements applicable to such mental health or substance use disorder benefits are no more restrictive than the predominant financial requirements applied to substantially all medical and<br />
surgical benefits covered by the plan (or coverage), and there are no separate cost sharing requirements<br />
that are applicable only with respect to mental health or substance use disorder benefits; and<br />
‘‘(ii) the treatment limitations applicable to such mental health or substance use disorder benefits are<br />
no more restrictive than the predominant treatment limitations applied to substantially all medical and<br />
surgical benefits covered by the plan (or coverage) and there are no separate treatment limitations that are applicable only with respect to mental health or substance use disorder benefits.</p>
<p>The above is another reason for employers to lay off employees now. Talk to any insurance agent and this will add an enormous cost burden to employers.</p>
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		<title>By: leftback</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/11/good-news-on-stock-options-amt/comment-page-1/#comment-125943</link>
		<dc:creator>leftback</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Nov 2008 03:39:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=9261#comment-125943</guid>
		<description>@ philipat:  thanks for putting a word in for Japan. they get a bad press, much worse than they deserve, although they did play a role in global imbalances by keeping interest rates artificially low and yen too weak for years.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ philipat:  thanks for putting a word in for Japan. they get a bad press, much worse than they deserve, although they did play a role in global imbalances by keeping interest rates artificially low and yen too weak for years.</p>
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		<title>By: peachin</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/11/good-news-on-stock-options-amt/comment-page-1/#comment-125941</link>
		<dc:creator>peachin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Nov 2008 03:25:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=9261#comment-125941</guid>
		<description>Why in TARP? For the same reason that there probably will be something like a NOL - Net Operating Loss Carryover - which can be carried back 3 years and forward a number of years - in going back 3 years
it will only (in those 3 years) bring back the excess of AMT over Reg Tax as a refund in those years.  Now, most of those AMT excesses were paid over 3 years ago.  Maybe they will be allowed to &quot;mitigate&quot; the &quot;closed year law&quot; and let them take the particular amount back to when it cost the taxpayer.  Mitigation of closed years is not uncommon - esp. with this attachment to the new law.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why in TARP? For the same reason that there probably will be something like a NOL &#8211; Net Operating Loss Carryover &#8211; which can be carried back 3 years and forward a number of years &#8211; in going back 3 years<br />
it will only (in those 3 years) bring back the excess of AMT over Reg Tax as a refund in those years.  Now, most of those AMT excesses were paid over 3 years ago.  Maybe they will be allowed to &#8220;mitigate&#8221; the &#8220;closed year law&#8221; and let them take the particular amount back to when it cost the taxpayer.  Mitigation of closed years is not uncommon &#8211; esp. with this attachment to the new law.</p>
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		<title>By: philipat</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/11/good-news-on-stock-options-amt/comment-page-1/#comment-125940</link>
		<dc:creator>philipat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Nov 2008 03:23:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=9261#comment-125940</guid>
		<description>Bruce in Tn:

Hooray for our side!

Tonight the Nikkei is 8200…

Today the DOW is 8200…

I think we might just win the race to the bottom….

Hooray for our side!!!&quot;

No problem, the US will win. Japan, a tiny island state, has created the second largest economy in the world by being a selfless society. Japanese managers work for the Company and Society, not like in the US where CEO&#039;s work to make themselves rich. Japanese managers have absurd Company expense accounts but only for the Company and in the best interests of the Company and society. They take very little home and live in shoe boxes. And what they do take home, most of it is saved.

You may not like it, but the mercantile model is alive and well. And will probably prevail.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bruce in Tn:</p>
<p>Hooray for our side!</p>
<p>Tonight the Nikkei is 8200…</p>
<p>Today the DOW is 8200…</p>
<p>I think we might just win the race to the bottom….</p>
<p>Hooray for our side!!!&#8221;</p>
<p>No problem, the US will win. Japan, a tiny island state, has created the second largest economy in the world by being a selfless society. Japanese managers work for the Company and Society, not like in the US where CEO&#8217;s work to make themselves rich. Japanese managers have absurd Company expense accounts but only for the Company and in the best interests of the Company and society. They take very little home and live in shoe boxes. And what they do take home, most of it is saved.</p>
<p>You may not like it, but the mercantile model is alive and well. And will probably prevail.</p>
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		<title>By: philipat</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/11/good-news-on-stock-options-amt/comment-page-1/#comment-125939</link>
		<dc:creator>philipat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Nov 2008 03:17:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=9261#comment-125939</guid>
		<description>Ken H: &quot;no longer a Democracy&quot;

It&#039;s a representational decocracy. You don&#039;t like the representation, you vote the bums out, as the GOP just noted. That having been said, Stevens is still neck and neck in Alaska and, yes Alaska is different but, ultimately in a democracy, you get the Government you deserve?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ken H: &#8220;no longer a Democracy&#8221;</p>
<p>It&#8217;s a representational decocracy. You don&#8217;t like the representation, you vote the bums out, as the GOP just noted. That having been said, Stevens is still neck and neck in Alaska and, yes Alaska is different but, ultimately in a democracy, you get the Government you deserve?</p>
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		<title>By: leftback</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/11/good-news-on-stock-options-amt/comment-page-1/#comment-125938</link>
		<dc:creator>leftback</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Nov 2008 03:10:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=9261#comment-125938</guid>
		<description>Yo, Bruce, I put some toes in today, hope I still have feet by Friday. 
A burger says we finish the week above SPX 890.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yo, Bruce, I put some toes in today, hope I still have feet by Friday.<br />
A burger says we finish the week above SPX 890.</p>
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