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	<title>Comments on: Green Roadblocks</title>
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	<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/11/green-roadblocks/</link>
	<description>Macro Perspective on the Capital Markets, Economy, Geopolitics, Technology, and Digital Media</description>
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		<title>By: daveNYC</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/11/green-roadblocks/comment-page-1/#comment-127547</link>
		<dc:creator>daveNYC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 15:49:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=10209#comment-127547</guid>
		<description>&quot;Their sales depend heavily on tax incentives—which means that selling more of them will require more taxpayer dollars. &quot;

The Prius gets a $3k tax credit and is selling like hot cakes, but I suspect that even if you removed the credit it would still be doing well.  He also doesn&#039;t mention the favorable tax treatment that SUVs are getting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Their sales depend heavily on tax incentives—which means that selling more of them will require more taxpayer dollars. &#8221;</p>
<p>The Prius gets a $3k tax credit and is selling like hot cakes, but I suspect that even if you removed the credit it would still be doing well.  He also doesn&#8217;t mention the favorable tax treatment that SUVs are getting.</p>
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		<title>By: awilensky</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/11/green-roadblocks/comment-page-1/#comment-127508</link>
		<dc:creator>awilensky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 14:07:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=10209#comment-127508</guid>
		<description>Greene is just towing the line in the family business; do nothing to change the cost structure of the old think, and leave industry alone. He is paid to do that. He is an idiot on the payroll.

All electric drive trains have as near a zero maintenance cost as can be acheived in any over the road application. They have no pistons, hot sump lube, or ignitions. They run, as a whole, as a far more trouble free drive systems that internal combustion. Ask and maintainer of a fleet of electric golf carts. All cars need some fixing, but electric drive lines are as good as it gets. And that is really the trouble that Detroit had with the electrics - less parts and repair dollars for the repair and supply chain.

A veritable phalanx of small, entrepreneurial companies filed through the BIG 3 pitch rooms to license all manner of alternative drive line tech - this all occurred over the past 15 years or so. They all signed NDA&#039;s and were all rebuffed.

The only thing I can say about Wagoner and his ilk is this (after seeing them testify and on the news circuit):  

They have all developed a permanent squint from lying so often; even they cannot internally swallow the crap they are required to repeat ad nauseum. And as for the Union guys sitting at the job banks that have signs in the parking lot saying, &quot;no foreign cars&quot; --- it&#039;s your turn too (I am a CWA union ex-member) - no soup for you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Greene is just towing the line in the family business; do nothing to change the cost structure of the old think, and leave industry alone. He is paid to do that. He is an idiot on the payroll.</p>
<p>All electric drive trains have as near a zero maintenance cost as can be acheived in any over the road application. They have no pistons, hot sump lube, or ignitions. They run, as a whole, as a far more trouble free drive systems that internal combustion. Ask and maintainer of a fleet of electric golf carts. All cars need some fixing, but electric drive lines are as good as it gets. And that is really the trouble that Detroit had with the electrics &#8211; less parts and repair dollars for the repair and supply chain.</p>
<p>A veritable phalanx of small, entrepreneurial companies filed through the BIG 3 pitch rooms to license all manner of alternative drive line tech &#8211; this all occurred over the past 15 years or so. They all signed NDA&#8217;s and were all rebuffed.</p>
<p>The only thing I can say about Wagoner and his ilk is this (after seeing them testify and on the news circuit):  </p>
<p>They have all developed a permanent squint from lying so often; even they cannot internally swallow the crap they are required to repeat ad nauseum. And as for the Union guys sitting at the job banks that have signs in the parking lot saying, &#8220;no foreign cars&#8221; &#8212; it&#8217;s your turn too (I am a CWA union ex-member) &#8211; no soup for you.</p>
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		<title>By: DMR</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/11/green-roadblocks/comment-page-1/#comment-127507</link>
		<dc:creator>DMR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 14:07:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=10209#comment-127507</guid>
		<description>There have been technologies (like cell phone networks) that needed no incentives because market penetration was so exponentially fast.  Others like the internet and nuclear power tacitly enjoyed the dollars pouring into the defense sector.

I think Green does a lousy job at making a fundamental point:    how does the government know which alternative energy is the best?  They have already warped the market with their ethanol subsidies (I can name poor people in a dozen third world countries who lost their staple diets to the inflation that caused), and they are still chasing the windmills of a supposed hydrogen economy that would require an entire new infrastructure to be put in place.  The economy is gradually moving towards an electric economy that leverages existing power lines, but I can&#039;t claim to know that to be the best.  Would I rather have companies making limited bets and losing their shirts trying figure out the right technology or would I like a grand tax payer assisted multi trillion dollar effort chasing one wrong answer?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There have been technologies (like cell phone networks) that needed no incentives because market penetration was so exponentially fast.  Others like the internet and nuclear power tacitly enjoyed the dollars pouring into the defense sector.</p>
<p>I think Green does a lousy job at making a fundamental point:    how does the government know which alternative energy is the best?  They have already warped the market with their ethanol subsidies (I can name poor people in a dozen third world countries who lost their staple diets to the inflation that caused), and they are still chasing the windmills of a supposed hydrogen economy that would require an entire new infrastructure to be put in place.  The economy is gradually moving towards an electric economy that leverages existing power lines, but I can&#8217;t claim to know that to be the best.  Would I rather have companies making limited bets and losing their shirts trying figure out the right technology or would I like a grand tax payer assisted multi trillion dollar effort chasing one wrong answer?</p>
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		<title>By: mmmmike</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/11/green-roadblocks/comment-page-1/#comment-127503</link>
		<dc:creator>mmmmike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 13:29:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=10209#comment-127503</guid>
		<description>One word: HYPERCAR (http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/09/04/video-rmis-hypercar-a-100-mpg-suv-featuring-amory-lovins/ )</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One word: HYPERCAR (<a href="http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/09/04/video-rmis-hypercar-a-100-mpg-suv-featuring-amory-lovins/" rel="nofollow">http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/09/04/video-rmis-hypercar-a-100-mpg-suv-featuring-amory-lovins/</a> )</p>
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		<title>By: CNBC Sucks</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/11/green-roadblocks/comment-page-1/#comment-127502</link>
		<dc:creator>CNBC Sucks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 13:28:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=10209#comment-127502</guid>
		<description>Sorry for the double post, but I should add that as a registered Republican, I am all for nuclear power as long as we build one nuclear reactor directly under the New York Stock Exchange and one under the CNBC studios.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry for the double post, but I should add that as a registered Republican, I am all for nuclear power as long as we build one nuclear reactor directly under the New York Stock Exchange and one under the CNBC studios.</p>
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		<title>By: CNBC Sucks</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/11/green-roadblocks/comment-page-1/#comment-127501</link>
		<dc:creator>CNBC Sucks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 13:24:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=10209#comment-127501</guid>
		<description>Without huge amounts of government research spending (said Manhattan Project and later) and a ginormous implied subsidy from Price-Anderson indemnification, you would have not one watt generated from nuclear power.  Not one single, dangerous, dirty, indisposable, radioactive watt.  Repetit...not one watt.

Without a huge investment in defense, the world&#039;s most powerful Navy, and an implicit guarantee to keep the sea lanes open, your oil trade would be totally at risk.  I don&#039;t think I need to explain this further given current events...just a tip of the hat to the Indian Navy for starting to pick up some of the burden.

It is simple: There is no discussion of free markets when it comes to energy.  There are no energy free markets.  None.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Without huge amounts of government research spending (said Manhattan Project and later) and a ginormous implied subsidy from Price-Anderson indemnification, you would have not one watt generated from nuclear power.  Not one single, dangerous, dirty, indisposable, radioactive watt.  Repetit&#8230;not one watt.</p>
<p>Without a huge investment in defense, the world&#8217;s most powerful Navy, and an implicit guarantee to keep the sea lanes open, your oil trade would be totally at risk.  I don&#8217;t think I need to explain this further given current events&#8230;just a tip of the hat to the Indian Navy for starting to pick up some of the burden.</p>
<p>It is simple: There is no discussion of free markets when it comes to energy.  There are no energy free markets.  None.</p>
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		<title>By: subscriber</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/11/green-roadblocks/comment-page-1/#comment-127497</link>
		<dc:creator>subscriber</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 13:09:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=10209#comment-127497</guid>
		<description>Totally agree that Green&#039;s attitude is harmful; Green&#039;s in the same camp as Bush, who last week wanted fuel mileage standards reduced!   Backing away from important challenges is one of the reasons we&#039;re in this sorry economic state.  America used to meet challenges head-on (synthetic rubber, Manhattan project, man to the moon), but now ... pathetically little.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Totally agree that Green&#8217;s attitude is harmful; Green&#8217;s in the same camp as Bush, who last week wanted fuel mileage standards reduced!   Backing away from important challenges is one of the reasons we&#8217;re in this sorry economic state.  America used to meet challenges head-on (synthetic rubber, Manhattan project, man to the moon), but now &#8230; pathetically little.</p>
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