Hire This Man!
By Barry Ritholtz - November 10th, 2008, 10:31AM
Depression era flashback:
Remember all of those photos of people looking for work in the 1930s? The sandwich boards that said things like “WILL WORK FOR FOOD” ?
Walking to work on Friday (42nd St and Vanderbilt), I bumped into Paul Nawrocki. He is looking for a job in Operations without much success. He got the idea for the sandwich board from an ex-Lehman employee who found success with it.
You can reach Paul at home 845-831-1802 or on his cell phone 646-584-3900
Email address: beaconpaul@aol.com
Paul, next time, hit our job board . . .
November 10th, 2008 at 10:53 am
Losing your health insurance because you lost your job really sucks!
November 10th, 2008 at 11:02 am
I admire this man’s courage. I don’t think I’d have the guts to stand there with a sandwich board.
November 10th, 2008 at 11:07 am
I admire his courage as well. (And thank you Barry for posting…because, as you know well, behind all these numbers about job losses and foreclosures there are millions of people….)
November 10th, 2008 at 11:17 am
Thanks for posting this, Barry.
I hope Paul finds employment quickly.
By the way… um… the job board has one job on it! Yikes!
November 10th, 2008 at 11:25 am
It must be brutally competetive right now. There at least appears to be some jobs in NYC in operations:
http://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=operations&l=new+york+city
or
http://jobsearch.monster.com/Search.aspx?re=130&cy=us&brd=1&JSNONREG=1&q=operations&cnme=New+York+City&sid=57&rad=20&rad_units=miles
I wonder what the average number of interviewies is for them? I hope he’s able to find something.
I was in a similar shituation in NJ at the end of the dot com collapse… I found myself with an MBA and Fortune 100 experience serving coffee and pastries in a Dunkin Donuts for a month. It was pretty humbling.
November 10th, 2008 at 11:46 am
Many jobs that are posted aren’t really because there is an actual opening or that they want to hire anyone. I find many job post are to fill some type of government requirement before hiring a non-minority or to justify more H1-B’s.
Look at how many thousands of job opening some of our largest corporations have open and then look at the recent business news on how many they are laying off. It doesn’t add up.
There are companies that make a lot of money consulting with companies on how NOT to hire American.
I wonder what percentages of job ads and supposed openings are really open?
November 10th, 2008 at 11:53 am
some companies have HR interview for shell jobs, so that they can query the labor market and assess the pay scales that are being paid in the marketplace.
pretty crummy to interview for a position that doesn’t even exist!
November 10th, 2008 at 12:03 pm
I wonder how long it’ll be before fiction becomes reality?
November 10th, 2008 at 12:04 pm
Its the 1930s all over !
November 10th, 2008 at 12:45 pm
@Concerned American: You’re exactly right. Also, many firms ARE interviewing for so-called “openings” but aren’t extending offers (even after several rounds of interviews), even to truly solid qualified candidates. In that respect, there are far fewer “real” open jobs out there than what the postings may indicate.
November 10th, 2008 at 12:47 pm
Concerned American is exactly right. There is a LOT of corporate lobbying power behind increasing H1B limits, and they corporations are winning. There’s nobody on the other side to put up a fight.
There is an important publication from the Center for Immigration Studies that clearly shows American workers are being displaced by imported workers who are willing to accept a lower wage. The argument made by the proponents of work visas that there are not enough American workers to fill positions is provable false. Have a look at the study.
http://www.cis.org/articles/2005/back1305.pdf
Best of luck to Paul.
November 10th, 2008 at 1:14 pm
Guys who do their work very will keep their. If you cannot and lose your job, dont blame it on immigration.
November 10th, 2008 at 1:16 pm
@Tom76: ????
November 10th, 2008 at 1:17 pm
Guys who do their work very well will keep their job…If you cannot and lose your job, dont blame it on immigration.
Hope Paul finds a job very soon.
November 10th, 2008 at 1:24 pm
WalMart needs greeters, and McDonald’s same-store sales rose 8%.
Let the good times roll.
November 10th, 2008 at 1:31 pm
Guys who do their work very will keep their. If you cannot and lose your job, dont blame it on immigration.
Nope, I blame depressed wages (especially in the IT field) on immigration. That’s what drives me nuts: these companies complain about a lack of skilled workers.. How about raising your xenudamn salaries?
November 10th, 2008 at 1:41 pm
@Dr. Noisewater: But that would mean the CEO and others in the executive suite would have to make less money. Since they’re used to the 450:1 compensation ratio to workers’ pay, it’s not likely to happen anytime soon. Need that newer, bigger yacht, private jet and 9th home, you know, or the joneses down the road won’t be impressed……..
November 10th, 2008 at 1:48 pm
OK, a couple of thoughts:
1. Losing your formerly secure high-paying job and finding nothing even close really sucks, especially when you have a family. You find yourself doing stuff you never expected to do. I had that experience in the Dot.com crash. Went from 6-figure jobs to being a phone jockey. It was not the best of times. Thankfully got back on my feet, but getting worried about this new recession.
2. Every recession, people blame immigration. But that’s not where the real problems are. The basis for the American economy should not be, and should never have been, finance and pushing paper around. It should be making real things better than anyone else - solving the technological problems of the age (clean energy, better transportation systems, etc).
3. I think Obama is right. Why give tax credits to companies that ship jobs overseas?
Henry
November 10th, 2008 at 1:49 pm
@ConcernedCitizen, a cap on H1Bs will just force those same job seekers to work for foreign companies and compete against you. This is exactly what happened to the Tech industry after the outsourcing backlash earlier in the decade. The result? Indian companies like Tata, Wipro, and Infosys are billion dollar companies now, with the benefits going to Indian society rather than to Silicon Valley.
If you can’t compete against them on home turf when all the chips are stacked against them with a hostile visa environment, what chance do you stand against them in the free for all world of global trade???
At least in the H1B scenario, we are taxing their labor and plowing it into AIG and Iraq (before Jan 20), and schools and bridges (hopefully after Jan 20) .
November 10th, 2008 at 1:51 pm
patient renter,
Contrary to what certain numbnuts (who shall remain nameless) think, you are also exactly right. I have seen it with my own eyes. I’m sure many others who have worked in the tech or telecom industries have as well. Entire organizations of solid, veteran employees are let go and replaced by a bunch of folks right off the boat (well maybe the plane) at much lower salaries. While insourcing doesn’t get as much attention as outsourcing, it has also been tough on the American worker. It’s a little harder to make the claim that “there aren’t enough Americans to do these jobs” when people are aware that Americans were *already doing them*.
And, for the record, I have no animosity towards all those foreigners who took advantage of the situation. I imagine I would have done the same thing. My animosity is reserved for the traitors on Wall Street , in Washington and in corporate America who sold out their countrymen for a buck.
November 10th, 2008 at 1:51 pm
If he’s willing to relocate, there are lots of applicable jobs in Central New York. Indeed.com search centered on Syracuse or Rochester pulls up a bunch. Syracuse has a ton of medicine going on too, good for the wife.
November 10th, 2008 at 2:33 pm
Henry,
There is not a recession in IT jobs right now, there is a a downright depression. Most jobs pay 30 to 50% less than 10 years ago… that’s not inflation adjusted. Much of that is due to the supply side, primarily from India.
Ask anyone in IT, I recommend.
I know many Americans who have simply left the IT field to pursue more lucrative careers… and then there is the overall question of why we don’t churn out more software engineers. Wow, what a stupid question. There’s no incentive. In major cities, you cannot support a family or even self on an entry-level software job. Most H1Bs I know are willing to live in relative squalor to have a job in the US. They can retire to India in 5 to 10 years after an entry-level job here. And, there is constant pressure from executive management to reduce costs in the IT area, something that Barry has pointed out. Most of these departments have been hollowed out and can do no more than perform basic maintenance on antiquated existing systems. Forget new development, noone wants to do it for $20/hr when it can be outsourced to India.
That’s the word on the street. No incentives, no development. EOS
Chuck Ponzi
November 10th, 2008 at 2:35 pm
BTW, mine’s not a complaint, but stating the facts. I personally don’t care what happens since I’ll adapt as fast as needed.
Chuck
November 10th, 2008 at 3:01 pm
This is from a current story on BLOOMBERG.com
“JPMorgan’s Lee, who started the year with an S&P 500 estimate of 1,590, lowered his projection of 1,375 last month by a further 18 percent. The 1,125 forecast still implies an advance of 21 percent through the end of the year.”
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601213&sid=aDoIdg.m3hzE&refer=home
WFT is that??? How much do you think Lee makes for this crap. I bet Paul would take Lee’s job for a fraction of what they pay and do a better job.
Wall street analysts…pathetic waste of money.
Does anyone know how much these big time “analysts” make? I’d really like to know.
November 10th, 2008 at 3:05 pm
Kudos to everyone on their comments and some of the amusing screennames (bouquets to Mannwich and Chuck Ponzi especially). I am from the Old Big Picture, you know, from way back in October 2008.
Noisewater - you really scare me with that book reference!
Now, all I was going to say was I chuckled when Barry wrote “Paul, next time, hit our job board” and I found only one listing: http://thebigpicture.jobthread.com/
November 10th, 2008 at 3:41 pm
H1B does lower salaries across the board, if you think otherwise, you haven’t worked in HR.
November 10th, 2008 at 4:00 pm
cnbc: I hate to use the cliche ‘Swiftian’, but in a way, _The Ax_ really _is_ as disturbing as _A Modest Proposal_, at least IMO..
November 10th, 2008 at 4:41 pm
@MikeDonnelly,
You are correct, but isn’t that the whole point? IT, especially as it relates to business automation, is one of the most deflationary influences on our society today.
As someone who does work in IT, I cannot recommend to my clients that they should buy my software that is going to allow them to do with 10 people what they previously needed 50 to do, and then turn around and whine when my own livelihood is impacted by the same forces.
November 10th, 2008 at 5:13 pm
I cannot recommend to my clients that they should buy my software that is going to allow them to do with 10 people what they previously needed 50 to do, and then turn around and whine when my own livelihood is impacted by the same forces
Apples and oranges. An increase in productivity resulting in lower staffing needs is completely different than importing foreign workers to displace American workers on the false premise that there are no available Americans to fill the position (which is one of the legal stipulations).
November 10th, 2008 at 5:36 pm
When a company hires someone on H1B, they have to obtain approval from the BLS, and in that paper work they have to declare in black and white the salary they will pay to the hired person, and that salary has to be equal to or above the market rate. So, short of an employer making a false statement (of which I am sure no employer would take a risk), the salaries are supposed to be fair. Of course, what counts as fair market rate can still be manipulated within a small range.
So, it appears the real problem is that the salaries are black boxes anyway. Therefore, it is even questionable to assume that the American IT workers are paid significantly more than H1B workers. I have been working in IT industry for about 15 years, and it has always been a guesswork whether I was being paid fairly or not. You have to consult salary.com or similar sites, to get an idea of the median range, but usually the job classification and associated data have a huge variance.
November 10th, 2008 at 5:42 pm
Sorry, that should be Department of Labor, not BLS. I’m following too much economics/markets lately.
November 10th, 2008 at 5:42 pm
I’m in the entertainment biz, not finance, but I’ve noticed that the phenomenon Concerned American writes about is borne out here as well. A lot of studios are “hiring” for jobs that never materialize. It ends up being a lot of busy-making on the part of lower level executives trying to justify their existences to their superiors.
November 10th, 2008 at 6:11 pm
Re: H1-B program. Many people think that the H1-B program is mostly a sham and is used to hire cheaper or indentured workers in place of American’s. Well, we have some proof here that there is corruption in the H1-B program (along with most everything else in this world).
=========================
Businessweek
Immigration October 16, 2008
It’s True: There’s Fraud in the H1-B Visa Program
A new U.S. government report confirms that companies are using the visas to hire illegally. But reforms are on the way
By Moira Herbst
For years critics have charged that the U.S. visa program for highly skilled workers is susceptible to abuse. Now the federal agency that issues the visas has confirmed some of those concerns.
The program for what are known as H-1B visas is designed to help U.S. companies bring workers with rare or specialized skills into the country. A Microsoft (MSFT) or IBM (IBM) can use the visas to hire someone from abroad if they can’t find an American citizen with equivalent skills. But in a recent study, U.S. Citizenship & Immigration Services (USCIS) found that 13% of the requests for H-1B visas were fraudulent and 7% contained technical violations. In one case, when a company requested a visa for a “business development analyst,” USCIS found the person would be working in a laundromat, doing laundry and maintaining washing machines.
The study marks the first time the agency has documented systematic problems in the program. It’s based on a sample of 246 H-1B petitions and does not name the companies involved.
Critics say the report underscores the problems with H-1B visas. They charge that companies use the visas so they can hire cheap workers from abroad instead of hiring Americans, pushing down pay and benefits in the U.S. “The report makes it clear that the H-1B program is rife with abuse and misuse,” says Ron Hira, assistant professor of public policy at the Rochester Institute of Technology.
Hundreds of U.S. companies use the program to bring overseas workers into the country, and participants such as Microsoft and Google (GOOG) have long argued that the current limit of 65,000 visas a year should be increased. But the USCIS study makes it more likely that critics, such as Senators Dick Durbin (D-Ill.) and Charles Grassley (R-Iowa), will be able to win tighter oversight of the program before it is expanded. Presidential candidates Barack Obama and John McCain have both voiced support for expanding the program, with reforms.
….
Full article
November 10th, 2008 at 6:43 pm
patient renter - “An increase in productivity resulting in lower staffing needs is completely different”
about as much difference as a Florida or California orange
both situations leave a worker unable to provide for needs … thus power to the employer
I’ve been wondering if such a device existed, if it would help … those sci-fi suspended animation sleeping tubes
or what a bear does in winter to expell less energy, ie hibernate
wake me up when you want to pay me to do something … then I’ll spend some of that cash while working for you … otherwise employer - no juice for you
November 10th, 2008 at 7:31 pm
I am the man in the sandwich board and would like to respond to Tom76 who said “Guys who do their work very well will keep their job…” I did my job VERY well. In fact, I can supply superlative references from every one of my past employers. They will all tell you that I was their best employee. However, they are unemployed like me, since every company I worked for in the past is no longer in business. My last employer filed bankruptcy on August 13, 2008. Unfortunately, when you are unemployed a lot of people (including perspective employers) make assumptions that it was somehow your fault, and the longer you are unemployed the worse it is. Everyone begins to think “if he’s out of work all these months, there must be a reason.” And all the unemployed have this little nagging voice in their head saying “it’s your fault, it’s your fault, everyone else is working, it’s your fault.” I hope that Tom76 is never in my position, but if he were it would certainly give him a very different perspective. However, I wouldn’t wish anyone to be in this position, and many, many are.
November 10th, 2008 at 7:53 pm
I had the good fortune to be in IT in NYC from 1996-2000. It was beautiful. I saw the bloom coming off the rose in early 2000 and took a cushy IT job in the midwest. Took all that rent money I was saving and bought an apartment building.
Then 911 happened. The brokerage I was working for had its first layoff since its inception in 1860 something. Now that company doesn’t even exist anymore…was bought by Wachovia couple years ago.
I fked around for a couple years with some IT contracts here and there…then just got sick of it and went back to school. I finished up a degree in nuclear medicine and have been in the field since.
Here’s how ugly its getting. I spoke with a friend who is PhD Board certified Medical Physicist this weekend.
He just got laid off from the St Louis cancer center he was working at for past three years.
I’m luckier than most….but I’m battening down the hatches in a serious way. As pessimistic as I have been about the state of the economy for the past few years….I’m starting to think I was WAY too optimistic. It’s kinda scary.
Love the blog Barry. Thanks much. You’ve saved/made me lots of money.
If you’re ever in Columbia, MO the steak and beers are on me!!
November 10th, 2008 at 7:55 pm
Hey Paul.
I can relate.
Keep your head up.
Take care.
November 10th, 2008 at 8:06 pm
DMR — I like your grip on the economic scene and the causal relations of the IT global competitive market — especially the point about automation eating it’s own children when technological devices replace human labor. On a balance sheet a cost is a cost, a revenue source is a revenue source, but the difference between machines and human labor creates a socio-economic environment. Since Human population is increasing (rather than stabilizing or remain constant) , increasing the efficiency of markets ability to reach customers will eventually approach natural limits — such as now, when everyone has the ability to buy and sell anything.
The net amount of human wealth in any given year doesn’t change much beyond the natural human population growth rate, unless some group of people discover and control a massive technological use of resources. However, when readjustments of macro-economic balance sheets reduce the human labor force, there usually aren’t any immediate invisible market forces out there that are going to just capture those unemployed workers. Lower levels of economic positions are always available, but at some point the balance is achieved, and the fact will arrive when there just aren’t any jobs available because too many businesses and individuals went bankrupt and lost a lot of money.
Also, DMR stated that about the H1B scenario, we are taxing their labor and plowing it into AIG and Iraq (before Jan 20), and schools and bridges (hopefully after Jan 20) .
Wouldn’t it be better if those jobs were part of American owned and based companies and production?
You forget that laws are the means by which India keeps the “global competition” from competition on Indian soil. This is also true for China, Europe, Latin American nations, and in fact much of the world except for a lot of Africa and the middle east where cooperative dictatorships and oligarchies are installed that enable global colonialism.
We won’t lose competitiveness if we change the laws on January 20th to end the H1B vistas and create laws that support companies to hire American workers. Why not instead subsidize the companies by yielding the companies a tax rebate for t the difference between the H1B vista salary and the current salary paid to an American worker? At the same time, why not build a public infrastructure of real free education and technical schools through college that will provide the work force. This gives American workers the basis for skills that enable entrepreneurial talents to develop. Importing a high-end foreign labor force is merely a short-term solution that ruins American global competitiveness. Investing in a native local labor force with an investment in education of the necessary skills is the only way to create a basis for entrepreneurialism that off-shoots into new small businesses and new employment growth.
I enjoy the commentary here. Everyone makes intelligent points and the disagreement is merely about elaborating on another perspective. I’ll try to do the same.
Peace out.
November 10th, 2008 at 8:39 pm
“both situations leave a worker unable to provide for needs … thus power to the employer”
Only in the very short term. Over the long term it raises the standard of living for nearly everyone. This is where taxation to pay for infrastructure and education really come in.
Let me give you an extreme example I saw in india. These women (about twenty of them) were sitting in long line the grass at one of the tourists sites, using little curved knives to cut the grass. Two men were overseeing this operation. It was really slow going, even as hard as they were working. By your measure, these are really empowered workers. They have guaranteed employment through what must be some kind of job program and the grass isn’t every going to stop growing, so they’ll never run out of work. I would argue that it would be better to put them to work making reel mowers in a factory and sending them out in smaller teams to mow in a far saner manner. With the cost savings, they could put the laid off workers through school. But my idea involves empowering the employer, I guess, by your logic.
November 10th, 2008 at 10:31 pm
There’s always a market for talent. I believe this is a much needed purging experience for most people who have gotten comfortably numb in the work place. Top performers do 80% of the work anyway. We would be even more efficient if the bottom 80% just plain left. Takes more time to explain then to do it most of the time. And sometimes there’s no amount of explaining you can do to have someone understand what your talking about.
In a lot of ways I regret having gone into IT and should have taken the full ride to medical school, but I had to accept the offer my junior year in college and I didn’t want to make a commitment so early.
My heart goes out to the guy, but if he were worth his salt and not redundant, then he would have a job.
November 10th, 2008 at 10:51 pm
I just farted …..and it kinda smelled like johnny.
November 10th, 2008 at 10:54 pm
I need to add one more thing… Software is the most misunderstood profession of them all. If you pay 20% to 30% more to attract talent you don’t get someone 20 or 30% better. It’s more like 5 to 10 times better. So although IT is flooded with H1Bs from India, top talent is still rare even if your population is three times larger. So it looks good on the books, but when business realizes nothing gets done and the quality is shit - with dirty days everyday and a single 9 in reliability is considered an achievement - that attitude will change.
November 11th, 2008 at 12:08 am
hum - I’ll try this again
the purpose of a “Production Effieciency Expert” is to reduce costs to the business entity by:
a. employing robotics
b. outsourcing to a cheaper labor market
along with other means like using cheaper materials, new designs, locations, etc
“Over the long term it raises the standard of living for nearly everyone”
almost sounds like the WalMart* new ad slogan “Save Money Live Better”
“nearly everyone” = those with jobs with life+ sustaining wages
game therory efficiency produces a winner thus a loser - thats life - keeps us sharp in this jungle of survival of the fittest
November 11th, 2008 at 2:34 am
Know a company that bid on government engineering jobs - non IT. Put Indian PhD’s on the proposal to show competence (Gov just counts the number) but keep costs low (paid them less than USA BS grads). Apparently easy to game H1B - it was treated like a joke. One of these situations where you have to play the game to be competitive. Anyone wanting to expand H1B is hurting the US.
November 11th, 2008 at 6:54 am
BeaconPaul said “Unfortunately, when you are unemployed a lot of people (including perspective employers) make assumptions that it was somehow your fault, and the longer you are unemployed the worse it is. Everyone begins to think “if he’s out of work all these months, there must be a reason.” And all the unemployed have this little nagging voice in their head saying “it’s your fault, it’s your fault, everyone else is working, it’s your fault.”
I can attest that the above statements are absolutely, unequivocally, positively true. No matter how you try to explain it (assuming you haven’t been branded radioactive and are even given the chance to do so), no one wants to hear it. Of the last 3 companies I worked for, one has shut down, one had average employee tenure of 9 months and their stock price has been under 25 cents for most of the last 2 years (while they have continually diluted shareholders by issuing ever more stock), and the 3rd has average annual turnover in the 40% range. Any of this should be enough to show that the it is/was the company management that is/was at fault. But noooooo. It’s ALWYS somehow the employee’s fault!
This is why unemployed people often get depressed and give up job hunting.
November 11th, 2008 at 7:38 am
sleepin on this … I missed the big efficiency play
Buy your competitor with other peoples money promising a better world for all
then consolidate activities and turn an 8 hour daytime operation into 2 shifts (no kids ballgame for you Dad)
office jobs are not needed because of the computers lightspeed ability
Marketeer extracts his pay for betterment to the world
Office worker creates a Save the ____ business or a magazine (with others peoples money via the CC or MEW)
bottom line - since the sleepin tube doesn’t exist - in this world you (or your neighbor) WILL care for the people
somehow someway (or make war)
ps - jmay @ Nov 10 2008 at 5:42 pm
I could see that scenario going on all over the place
November 11th, 2008 at 7:58 am
ps -
in this world you (or your neighbor) WILL care for the people
can be JAIL or WAR … you will pay-up
war unfortunately for some … has the most paybacks for capital players
November 11th, 2008 at 9:32 am
There are lot of programming jobs still available in C#, Java and C++ in NYC. Unfortunately, most Americans don’t want to do programming. They don’t want to think. They want easy money doing operations or system administration. They must realize that they are over-qualified for that job. Most of the non-programming jobs don’t need any formal training. People can pickup the skills on the job. That is what the H1B guys do.
November 11th, 2008 at 11:53 am
When a company hires someone on H1B, they have to obtain approval from the BLS, and in that paper work they have to declare in black and white the salary they will pay to the hired person, and that salary has to be equal to or above the market rate. So, short of an employer making a false statement (of which I am sure no employer would take a risk), the salaries are supposed to be fair. Of course, what counts as fair market rate can still be manipulated within a small range.
Leaving aside any discussion of fraud or indentured-servitude in H1B, it is simple economics to say when you enlarge the pool of eligible workers, the salary will go down. When you have a fixed pool of workers and increasing demand for their labor, Adam Smith 101 says salaries will rise. When you enlarge the pool, salaries remain stagnant. When you enlarge the pool _and_ falsify demand, salaries go down.
Companies are both falsifying demand for labor as well as falsifying its supply, and appealing for special privileges to satisfy both false things in order to reduce wages. Let’s call it like it is.
There are lot of programming jobs still available in C#, Java and C++ in NYC. Unfortunately, most Americans don’t want to do programming. They don’t want to think. They want easy money doing operations or system administration.
You clearly have not worked in operations or admin on Wall St. And I have yet to meet a developer who carries a tether and is in an on-call rotation to support their own crappy code, unless they’re a developer/admin (common in startups and small companies where developers have root and life is hell).
November 11th, 2008 at 11:59 am
There are lot of programming jobs still available in C#, Java and C++ in NYC. Unfortunately, most Americans don’t want to do programming. They don’t want to think. They want easy money doing operations or system administration.
Actually, come to think of it, it seems to me that it’s an awful lot easier to outsource code monkeys than good ops folks, in the same way that it’s easy to hire architects and engineers to draw plans and design a building anywhere, but when it comes to carpenters, plumbers, electricians, ironworkers, etc. they still need to be on site to build the building.
Developers are more like architects, sysadmins more like plumbers. And your inexperienced architect or engineer is gonna make mistakes that an experienced plumber or electrician will see in a second and be able to fix..
(BTW, very few developers I’ve ever met could debug their own code on a platform properly, ESPECIALLY those that are addicted to IDEs and write Java or C++ or scripting.. And C#? Here’s a nickel, kid, buy a _real_ operating system…)
November 11th, 2008 at 2:47 pm
I must be set for life then, still developing plain old “C” and my IDE of choice is VI+cscope.
November 11th, 2008 at 7:48 pm
>but when it comes to carpenters, plumbers, electricians, ironworkers, etc. they still need to be on site >to build the building.
This is exactly the point I am making. There is too much supply of plumbers because it is a very low skilled job. Anyone can become a plumber. Engineer or Architect jobs are safer than plumber jobs. If Engineering/coding jobs can be outsourced, why there is so much demand for them in the US?
November 12th, 2008 at 7:12 am
vdhinaka I have an idea for you - work on the code that creates itself
you’ll be stinkin rich
you’ll put all your fellow programers out of work but
you’ll be stinkin rich
as far as the “very low skilled job” … very … really that is just a step to far
and I’m sure I could spend the time to find research to back up this statement - but why bother I know its close to true
the world has IQs from 50 to 150 - everyone of them need a job - to provide for their possible 150 IQ child from that 50 IQ father and 60 IQ mother
November 12th, 2008 at 8:02 am
>vdhinaka I have an idea for you - work on the code that creates itself
This is one of the hot topics for computer science research called Automatic programming or Generative Programming.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generative_programming
Once they accomplish this, there will not be any demand for programmers. There will be lot of demand for operations staff. you’ll be stinkin rich.