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	<title>Comments on: Major Damage</title>
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	<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/11/major-damage/</link>
	<description>Macro Perspective on the Capital Markets, Economy, Geopolitics, Technology, and Digital Media</description>
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		<title>By: Broken</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/11/major-damage/comment-page-2/#comment-128439</link>
		<dc:creator>Broken</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Nov 2008 18:36:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=10470#comment-128439</guid>
		<description>Heh!

Someone filled my crystal ball with mud a long time ago, but since everyone else was pulling predictions out of their various orifices, I thought I&#039;d take a shot.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Heh!</p>
<p>Someone filled my crystal ball with mud a long time ago, but since everyone else was pulling predictions out of their various orifices, I thought I&#8217;d take a shot.</p>
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		<title>By: mudpuppy</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/11/major-damage/comment-page-2/#comment-128397</link>
		<dc:creator>mudpuppy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Nov 2008 15:58:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=10470#comment-128397</guid>
		<description>&quot;Predictions are hard to make, especially about the future.&quot;  Yogi Berra

There sure are a lot of crystal balls around here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Predictions are hard to make, especially about the future.&#8221;  Yogi Berra</p>
<p>There sure are a lot of crystal balls around here.</p>
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		<title>By: Broken</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/11/major-damage/comment-page-2/#comment-128237</link>
		<dc:creator>Broken</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Nov 2008 22:12:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=10470#comment-128237</guid>
		<description>Great Depression:

 GNP dipped 33% by end of 1933  from 1928 highs. 

International trade dropped by 66% over the same period.

1929 stock market valuation was disconnected from underlying economy: at least 45% overvaluation.

Weak Fed took policies which increased deflation.

&quot;Global&quot; economy was essentially just US and Europe.



2008 &quot;Depression&quot;

Economic bubble created by extreme US credit bubble.

Minor stock market overvaluation relative to economy.

No protectionist measures on trade- so far.

Much stronger global economy than in 1929.

Global Keynesian response to downturn.


I see S&amp;P breaking 700 in 2009, economic recovery beginning 2010.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great Depression:</p>
<p> GNP dipped 33% by end of 1933  from 1928 highs. </p>
<p>International trade dropped by 66% over the same period.</p>
<p>1929 stock market valuation was disconnected from underlying economy: at least 45% overvaluation.</p>
<p>Weak Fed took policies which increased deflation.</p>
<p>&#8220;Global&#8221; economy was essentially just US and Europe.</p>
<p>2008 &#8220;Depression&#8221;</p>
<p>Economic bubble created by extreme US credit bubble.</p>
<p>Minor stock market overvaluation relative to economy.</p>
<p>No protectionist measures on trade- so far.</p>
<p>Much stronger global economy than in 1929.</p>
<p>Global Keynesian response to downturn.</p>
<p>I see S&amp;P breaking 700 in 2009, economic recovery beginning 2010.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark E Hoffer</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/11/major-damage/comment-page-2/#comment-128224</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark E Hoffer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Nov 2008 20:31:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=10470#comment-128224</guid>
		<description>VFTW, 

not that it much matters, though, with this: &quot;Anybody know who Leo Farnsworth was? No of course you don’t.&quot;  take it easy.  anyone who&#039;s read MAD Magazine more than three times, had access to a set of Encyclopedias, and a Spirit of Inquiry--stumbled across the Reality of ol&#039; Leo, and some else..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>VFTW, </p>
<p>not that it much matters, though, with this: &#8220;Anybody know who Leo Farnsworth was? No of course you don’t.&#8221;  take it easy.  anyone who&#8217;s read MAD Magazine more than three times, had access to a set of Encyclopedias, and a Spirit of Inquiry&#8211;stumbled across the Reality of ol&#8217; Leo, and some else..</p>
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		<title>By: hejpfund</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/11/major-damage/comment-page-2/#comment-128204</link>
		<dc:creator>hejpfund</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Nov 2008 17:15:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=10470#comment-128204</guid>
		<description>Keep in mind that stocks seldom sell for low multiples of trough earnings. For example, in 2001, S&amp;P 500 GAAP and non-GAAP profits fell 51% and 31%, respectively. Taking the average daily price for the whole year (1194), the S&amp;P 500&#039;s P/E was either 48.4 or 30.7, depending on which flavor of earnings you prefer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Keep in mind that stocks seldom sell for low multiples of trough earnings. For example, in 2001, S&amp;P 500 GAAP and non-GAAP profits fell 51% and 31%, respectively. Taking the average daily price for the whole year (1194), the S&amp;P 500&#8217;s P/E was either 48.4 or 30.7, depending on which flavor of earnings you prefer.</p>
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		<title>By: VoiceFromTheWilderness</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/11/major-damage/comment-page-2/#comment-128201</link>
		<dc:creator>VoiceFromTheWilderness</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Nov 2008 16:21:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=10470#comment-128201</guid>
		<description>Ah the great God Technology.  Surely if we can just double our transistor count one more time, we will have a computer that can tell us all what to do, and make everything great and glorious once again.  Finally a real god!  

uh, yeah.  Good luck with that.

From the &#039;We should have figured this out a long time ago department&#039;: Technology creates tools.  Tools are only as effective at creating results as the hand guiding them.  Technology can minimize the number of hands doing the driving.  Is that what you want?  Tough it&#039;s what you&#039;ve got.

Actually, technology is going to amplify this downturn, big time, already has in fact.  This is actually the beginning of the first real downturn in the global village brought to you by... the good folks at TUA --Technology Uber Alles.  The first truly global societal crisis.  Welcome to the 21st century brought to you by  TUA

American beliefs about technology are among the most confused beliefs we have.  We endlessly laud our technology while paying our technology innovators less than the garbage man.  We endlessly laud &#039;entrepeneurship&#039; while failing to note the distressing frequency with which corporations, and middle management reap the benefits created by those entrepeneurs.  We offshore our technology development fantasizing that we will still retain the power attendent to those who control technology.

Anybody know who Leo Farnsworth was?  No of course you don&#039;t.  He invented television believing it would usher in a golden age of knowledge and wisdom (not money).  He died penniless, the profits and control of his invention having been commandeered by David Sarnoff at CBS.   Farnsworth was a technological innovator, running what we would today call a &#039;startup&#039; in the &#039;20&#039;s.  Sarnoff was a corporate insider extremely adept at manipulation and the uses of power.  Who runs the world now, the descendents of Farnsworth, or the descendants of Sarnoff?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah the great God Technology.  Surely if we can just double our transistor count one more time, we will have a computer that can tell us all what to do, and make everything great and glorious once again.  Finally a real god!  </p>
<p>uh, yeah.  Good luck with that.</p>
<p>From the &#8216;We should have figured this out a long time ago department&#8217;: Technology creates tools.  Tools are only as effective at creating results as the hand guiding them.  Technology can minimize the number of hands doing the driving.  Is that what you want?  Tough it&#8217;s what you&#8217;ve got.</p>
<p>Actually, technology is going to amplify this downturn, big time, already has in fact.  This is actually the beginning of the first real downturn in the global village brought to you by&#8230; the good folks at TUA &#8211;Technology Uber Alles.  The first truly global societal crisis.  Welcome to the 21st century brought to you by  TUA</p>
<p>American beliefs about technology are among the most confused beliefs we have.  We endlessly laud our technology while paying our technology innovators less than the garbage man.  We endlessly laud &#8216;entrepeneurship&#8217; while failing to note the distressing frequency with which corporations, and middle management reap the benefits created by those entrepeneurs.  We offshore our technology development fantasizing that we will still retain the power attendent to those who control technology.</p>
<p>Anybody know who Leo Farnsworth was?  No of course you don&#8217;t.  He invented television believing it would usher in a golden age of knowledge and wisdom (not money).  He died penniless, the profits and control of his invention having been commandeered by David Sarnoff at CBS.   Farnsworth was a technological innovator, running what we would today call a &#8217;startup&#8217; in the &#8217;20&#8217;s.  Sarnoff was a corporate insider extremely adept at manipulation and the uses of power.  Who runs the world now, the descendents of Farnsworth, or the descendants of Sarnoff?</p>
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		<title>By: philipat</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/11/major-damage/comment-page-2/#comment-128183</link>
		<dc:creator>philipat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Nov 2008 13:55:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=10470#comment-128183</guid>
		<description>Also, to repeat an earlier post in a different thread, US Companies have the best profit margins ever by manufacturing in Asia. But of course there are no sales because all the jobs are in Asia.

Over-simplified perhaps but I&#039;m convinced there is a need for a radical re-think, especially now that Wall Street has confirmed systemic stupidity is possible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also, to repeat an earlier post in a different thread, US Companies have the best profit margins ever by manufacturing in Asia. But of course there are no sales because all the jobs are in Asia.</p>
<p>Over-simplified perhaps but I&#8217;m convinced there is a need for a radical re-think, especially now that Wall Street has confirmed systemic stupidity is possible.</p>
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		<title>By: philipat</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/11/major-damage/comment-page-1/#comment-128179</link>
		<dc:creator>philipat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Nov 2008 13:21:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=10470#comment-128179</guid>
		<description>Actually, wrt the $45-50 earnings estimate, S&amp;P itself is projecting this. Go to the XL spreadsheet of quarterly earnings at their website and look only at &quot;As reported&quot; earnings (That is, actual reported earnings for tax purposes) and the &quot;Top down&quot; estimates as opposed to the &quot;Bottom up&quot; estimates, which are averages of analysts estimates (Exactly!!)
And, voila, there&#039;s your estimate. I agree with BR, we may get a nice bounce but we will for sure reach new lows before this is over.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, wrt the $45-50 earnings estimate, S&amp;P itself is projecting this. Go to the XL spreadsheet of quarterly earnings at their website and look only at &#8220;As reported&#8221; earnings (That is, actual reported earnings for tax purposes) and the &#8220;Top down&#8221; estimates as opposed to the &#8220;Bottom up&#8221; estimates, which are averages of analysts estimates (Exactly!!)<br />
And, voila, there&#8217;s your estimate. I agree with BR, we may get a nice bounce but we will for sure reach new lows before this is over.</p>
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		<title>By: AndrewHorowitz</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/11/major-damage/comment-page-1/#comment-128174</link>
		<dc:creator>AndrewHorowitz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Nov 2008 06:57:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=10470#comment-128174</guid>
		<description>With respect. Santoli has been a stubborn bull and has tried to discredit every idea about the downtrend. When I spoke with him on show about credit a few months ago, he could not comprehend an unemployment rate above 6%-6.5%. No matter what info I sent to him or the several time we spoke on different ideas, he was happy to provide a a snappy comeback, always fighting the obvious. 

Notice that even in this look into the abyss, his final line quoted is looking for a hopeful bounce...

When he eventually gets bearish, I am all in....To his credit, his writing is gorgeous. Might I suggest that he use a chartbook to report finance rather than a thesaurus.. There is only one Abelson anyway..

A</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>With respect. Santoli has been a stubborn bull and has tried to discredit every idea about the downtrend. When I spoke with him on show about credit a few months ago, he could not comprehend an unemployment rate above 6%-6.5%. No matter what info I sent to him or the several time we spoke on different ideas, he was happy to provide a a snappy comeback, always fighting the obvious. </p>
<p>Notice that even in this look into the abyss, his final line quoted is looking for a hopeful bounce&#8230;</p>
<p>When he eventually gets bearish, I am all in&#8230;.To his credit, his writing is gorgeous. Might I suggest that he use a chartbook to report finance rather than a thesaurus.. There is only one Abelson anyway..</p>
<p>A</p>
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		<title>By: msecc</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/11/major-damage/comment-page-1/#comment-128156</link>
		<dc:creator>msecc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Nov 2008 03:23:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=10470#comment-128156</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the good read tonight...  Now I get to lay in bed with my eyes open all night and my mind racing....  ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the good read tonight&#8230;  Now I get to lay in bed with my eyes open all night and my mind racing&#8230;.  <img src='http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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