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	<title>Comments on: Propping Up Home Prices, Stopping Foreclosures</title>
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	<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/11/propping-up-home-prices-stopping-foreclosures/</link>
	<description>Macro Perspective on the Capital Markets, Economy, Geopolitics, Technology, and Digital Media</description>
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		<title>By: Pat G.</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/11/propping-up-home-prices-stopping-foreclosures/comment-page-1/#comment-124356</link>
		<dc:creator>Pat G.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Nov 2008 23:04:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=7765#comment-124356</guid>
		<description>I read somewhere that the median income seven years ago was a couple of hundred dollars more than it is now at $52K.  Adjusted for today&#039;s inflation median income should be around 64K.  Rework mortgages, if possible.   Going forward, there are still a number of people who are going to lose their jobs &amp; then thier homes.  So we&#039;re not through this yet.  It is only going to get worse.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I read somewhere that the median income seven years ago was a couple of hundred dollars more than it is now at $52K.  Adjusted for today&#8217;s inflation median income should be around 64K.  Rework mortgages, if possible.   Going forward, there are still a number of people who are going to lose their jobs &amp; then thier homes.  So we&#8217;re not through this yet.  It is only going to get worse.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark E Hoffer</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/11/propping-up-home-prices-stopping-foreclosures/comment-page-1/#comment-124355</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark E Hoffer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Nov 2008 23:01:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=7765#comment-124355</guid>
		<description>batmando, you should read what &#039;flipspiceland&#039; posted.

but, the idea that there is a &#039;World Labor Market&#039;, is a canard.  Simply, if it were so, we&#039;d be Importing Machine Tools from Bangladesh, not Germany, or Robotics from Sri Lanka, not Japan.  Simply, Labor Cost is but one component of the, multi-variate, expression of Value.

and, to encapsulate &#039;fsl&#039;&#039;s post, future &#039;valuations&#039; will be, even moreso, predicated by the fiat of the Fiat boys.

The only thing I would bet on is: Higher costs of Inputs, and, not necessarily Wages rising as fast..

Though, with this: &quot;much more acute folks with a better handle on this&quot;, I&#039;m not so sure I&#039;d belong in that grouping..that said, I do think, though, we&#039;re travelling in some, seriously, different days, and with that, it&#039;d behoove us all to 2X the hatches and overstock the Galley..
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/galley</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>batmando, you should read what &#8216;flipspiceland&#8217; posted.</p>
<p>but, the idea that there is a &#8216;World Labor Market&#8217;, is a canard.  Simply, if it were so, we&#8217;d be Importing Machine Tools from Bangladesh, not Germany, or Robotics from Sri Lanka, not Japan.  Simply, Labor Cost is but one component of the, multi-variate, expression of Value.</p>
<p>and, to encapsulate &#8216;fsl&#8217;&#8217;s post, future &#8216;valuations&#8217; will be, even moreso, predicated by the fiat of the Fiat boys.</p>
<p>The only thing I would bet on is: Higher costs of Inputs, and, not necessarily Wages rising as fast..</p>
<p>Though, with this: &#8220;much more acute folks with a better handle on this&#8221;, I&#8217;m not so sure I&#8217;d belong in that grouping..that said, I do think, though, we&#8217;re travelling in some, seriously, different days, and with that, it&#8217;d behoove us all to 2X the hatches and overstock the Galley..<br />
<a href="http://www.thefreedictionary.com/galley" rel="nofollow">http://www.thefreedictionary.com/galley</a></p>
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		<title>By: Mike in Nola</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/11/propping-up-home-prices-stopping-foreclosures/comment-page-1/#comment-124345</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike in Nola</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Nov 2008 21:04:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=7765#comment-124345</guid>
		<description>leftback:

Your reasoning for RXD sounds good, but when I checked the chart, it&#039;s amazingly thinly traded. Only 150k shares outstanding. Doesn&#039;t smell good.

Hoping this rally continues so I can get back into SRS. Have a buy set at 82.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>leftback:</p>
<p>Your reasoning for RXD sounds good, but when I checked the chart, it&#8217;s amazingly thinly traded. Only 150k shares outstanding. Doesn&#8217;t smell good.</p>
<p>Hoping this rally continues so I can get back into SRS. Have a buy set at 82.</p>
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		<title>By: flipspiceland</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/11/propping-up-home-prices-stopping-foreclosures/comment-page-1/#comment-124340</link>
		<dc:creator>flipspiceland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Nov 2008 20:04:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=7765#comment-124340</guid>
		<description>The policy wonks in DC have already figured it all out.  There is little they don&#039;t know, including that they should allow the market to work. 

What we need to know is why they refuse market oriented solutions. 

The specter of world wide economic catastrophe is the usual mantra that is offered up as to why they insist that they vmust interfere.

I don&#039;t believe a single syllable let alone one word from D.C. There is something else going on in those backrooms where they plot and scheme. 

But it it not ignorance of the speediest and most effective  solution.  If we follow the money, we will likely know the why markets are not being permitted to operate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The policy wonks in DC have already figured it all out.  There is little they don&#8217;t know, including that they should allow the market to work. </p>
<p>What we need to know is why they refuse market oriented solutions. </p>
<p>The specter of world wide economic catastrophe is the usual mantra that is offered up as to why they insist that they vmust interfere.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t believe a single syllable let alone one word from D.C. There is something else going on in those backrooms where they plot and scheme. </p>
<p>But it it not ignorance of the speediest and most effective  solution.  If we follow the money, we will likely know the why markets are not being permitted to operate.</p>
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		<title>By: batmando</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/11/propping-up-home-prices-stopping-foreclosures/comment-page-1/#comment-124333</link>
		<dc:creator>batmando</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Nov 2008 18:50:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=7765#comment-124333</guid>
		<description>willid3  Says: &quot;With equalization of the world economies, which we can’t escape...&quot;

@ Leftback, Dead Hobo, Mac E., Mark Hoffer and/or any of the rest of you much more acute folks with a better handle on this, critique this, please:

We are in a world labor market with our wages headed down toward the median wage level? 
The only way U.S. wages become more competitive will be a weaker dollar?
Which we&#039;ll see, after intermediate term deflation, when all the re-flating TARP, alphabet soup facilities, etc dollars come back in (runaway?) inflation?
Then cheaper dollar = higher oil and other commodities?
Along about the time the C-o-L takes off, then &quot;rising&quot; wages will meet falling housing prices at the magic 3 - to - 1 price to income ratio?

or not?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>willid3  Says: &#8220;With equalization of the world economies, which we can’t escape&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>@ Leftback, Dead Hobo, Mac E., Mark Hoffer and/or any of the rest of you much more acute folks with a better handle on this, critique this, please:</p>
<p>We are in a world labor market with our wages headed down toward the median wage level?<br />
The only way U.S. wages become more competitive will be a weaker dollar?<br />
Which we&#8217;ll see, after intermediate term deflation, when all the re-flating TARP, alphabet soup facilities, etc dollars come back in (runaway?) inflation?<br />
Then cheaper dollar = higher oil and other commodities?<br />
Along about the time the C-o-L takes off, then &#8220;rising&#8221; wages will meet falling housing prices at the magic 3 &#8211; to &#8211; 1 price to income ratio?</p>
<p>or not?</p>
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		<title>By: rtol</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/11/propping-up-home-prices-stopping-foreclosures/comment-page-1/#comment-124332</link>
		<dc:creator>rtol</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Nov 2008 18:47:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=7765#comment-124332</guid>
		<description>Kid-

You may have missed my point. Excessive leverage in real estate is clearly the problem, which is why I am approaching this as a way of minimizing acquisition leverage by making down payments more accessible to first time home buyers. Housing equilibrium has to be about more than lower prices, it has to involve increasing effective demand. 

Right now, besides the psychological burden of buying in a falling market, it&#039;s extraordinarily difficult for any &quot;normal&quot; owner occupied buyer to finance property, partly because of the recent 50 bp uptick in mortgage rates, and even more so because of the paucity of affordable and economically sustainable low down payment financing.  Housing prices have to do more than come down to the level a willing buyer wants to pay, it has to come to a level he can QUALIFY to pay, and a big part of qualifying to pay in the current financial market involves the size of your down payment.

Most current plans involve taxing renters (and others) to support housing prices, in part by having the government guarantee high risk low down payment loan programs (like FHA loans). This means that from a renters perspective they are paying to keep housing unaffordable, a deeply unfair arrangement. My thought would not contribute to that, and would in the long run have minimal tax costs, at least as I see it.

Thanks for your comments, anyway.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kid-</p>
<p>You may have missed my point. Excessive leverage in real estate is clearly the problem, which is why I am approaching this as a way of minimizing acquisition leverage by making down payments more accessible to first time home buyers. Housing equilibrium has to be about more than lower prices, it has to involve increasing effective demand. </p>
<p>Right now, besides the psychological burden of buying in a falling market, it&#8217;s extraordinarily difficult for any &#8220;normal&#8221; owner occupied buyer to finance property, partly because of the recent 50 bp uptick in mortgage rates, and even more so because of the paucity of affordable and economically sustainable low down payment financing.  Housing prices have to do more than come down to the level a willing buyer wants to pay, it has to come to a level he can QUALIFY to pay, and a big part of qualifying to pay in the current financial market involves the size of your down payment.</p>
<p>Most current plans involve taxing renters (and others) to support housing prices, in part by having the government guarantee high risk low down payment loan programs (like FHA loans). This means that from a renters perspective they are paying to keep housing unaffordable, a deeply unfair arrangement. My thought would not contribute to that, and would in the long run have minimal tax costs, at least as I see it.</p>
<p>Thanks for your comments, anyway.</p>
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		<title>By: willid3</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/11/propping-up-home-prices-stopping-foreclosures/comment-page-1/#comment-124321</link>
		<dc:creator>willid3</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Nov 2008 17:45:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=7765#comment-124321</guid>
		<description>i don&#039;t think housing prices can go up until wages have. the root cause of our problems is that wages have fallen to the point that even with easy credit (now gone)  they had no support. With out growing wages, there is only one direction for prices (of just about every thing) and thats down. And that could lead to that problem of deflation. I think of it of just the equalization of the world economies. which we can&#039;t escape. any more</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i don&#8217;t think housing prices can go up until wages have. the root cause of our problems is that wages have fallen to the point that even with easy credit (now gone)  they had no support. With out growing wages, there is only one direction for prices (of just about every thing) and thats down. And that could lead to that problem of deflation. I think of it of just the equalization of the world economies. which we can&#8217;t escape. any more</p>
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		<title>By: ron32</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/11/propping-up-home-prices-stopping-foreclosures/comment-page-1/#comment-124320</link>
		<dc:creator>ron32</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Nov 2008 17:41:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=7765#comment-124320</guid>
		<description>babycondor: thats for the feedback, looks grim for the builders!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>babycondor: thats for the feedback, looks grim for the builders!</p>
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		<title>By: babycondor</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/11/propping-up-home-prices-stopping-foreclosures/comment-page-1/#comment-124318</link>
		<dc:creator>babycondor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Nov 2008 17:33:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=7765#comment-124318</guid>
		<description>California may be a leading indicator. Things tend to happen here faster and bigger (more people) but the scenarios may play out in a similar fashion nationwide...but hopefully, not in such an extreme manner.

Anecdotal: Last weekend we drove through the eastern LA basin (Riverside, one of  the hardest hit foreclosure areas). Saw many brown lawns, hallmark of vacancy, in the nice upper-middle class subdivision where inlaws live. A few for sale signs. MIL casually asks SIL: &quot;So, did ____ let the house go into foreclosure?&quot; Must happen all the time these days around there. 

ron32: Already happening. We saw several large new developments further out in the desert north of San Bernardino (cheap land), with prices in the mid-100K range and even one developer offering BRAND NEW RENTAL HOMES for $995 a month. These homes were obviously not getting any purchase offers and the developer decided to just rent them out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>California may be a leading indicator. Things tend to happen here faster and bigger (more people) but the scenarios may play out in a similar fashion nationwide&#8230;but hopefully, not in such an extreme manner.</p>
<p>Anecdotal: Last weekend we drove through the eastern LA basin (Riverside, one of  the hardest hit foreclosure areas). Saw many brown lawns, hallmark of vacancy, in the nice upper-middle class subdivision where inlaws live. A few for sale signs. MIL casually asks SIL: &#8220;So, did ____ let the house go into foreclosure?&#8221; Must happen all the time these days around there. </p>
<p>ron32: Already happening. We saw several large new developments further out in the desert north of San Bernardino (cheap land), with prices in the mid-100K range and even one developer offering BRAND NEW RENTAL HOMES for $995 a month. These homes were obviously not getting any purchase offers and the developer decided to just rent them out.</p>
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		<title>By: ron32</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/11/propping-up-home-prices-stopping-foreclosures/comment-page-1/#comment-124315</link>
		<dc:creator>ron32</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Nov 2008 17:20:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=7765#comment-124315</guid>
		<description>Mannwich:  considering the economic impact of homebuilding in the burbs as it generates the shopping malls,schools new communities etc the excess inventory of SFR impacts more then home prices.  Noboby wants to talk about the massive overbuilding that has taken place which could only be accomplished via home speculation and the supporting tax deductions to make it  work.  
I expect the builders to start using the cheap lots to build relatively lower cost housing in the 75K to 150K range here in Calif, which will be another nail in the price curve!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mannwich:  considering the economic impact of homebuilding in the burbs as it generates the shopping malls,schools new communities etc the excess inventory of SFR impacts more then home prices.  Noboby wants to talk about the massive overbuilding that has taken place which could only be accomplished via home speculation and the supporting tax deductions to make it  work.<br />
I expect the builders to start using the cheap lots to build relatively lower cost housing in the 75K to 150K range here in Calif, which will be another nail in the price curve!</p>
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