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	<title>Comments on: AIG&#8217;s Financial Products Division</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/12/aigs-financial-products-division/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/12/aigs-financial-products-division/</link>
	<description>Macro Perspective on the Capital Markets, Economy, Geopolitics, Technology, and Digital Media</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 12:43:00 -0500</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Mutant Capitalism</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/12/aigs-financial-products-division/comment-page-1/#comment-136728</link>
		<dc:creator>Mutant Capitalism</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 2008 22:39:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=14330#comment-136728</guid>
		<description>One has to wonder if appropriate firewalls between trading desks and I-Bank subsidiary mortgage servicers were effectively in place. Given epidemic mortgage servicing fraud, these CDS bets shorting ABX subprime index would appear to be no more than rigged bets. Was AIG schnookered by I-Banks or were they somehow complicit?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One has to wonder if appropriate firewalls between trading desks and I-Bank subsidiary mortgage servicers were effectively in place. Given epidemic mortgage servicing fraud, these CDS bets shorting ABX subprime index would appear to be no more than rigged bets. Was AIG schnookered by I-Banks or were they somehow complicit?</p>
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		<title>By: Mark E Hoffer</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/12/aigs-financial-products-division/comment-page-1/#comment-136359</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark E Hoffer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Dec 2008 14:37:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=14330#comment-136359</guid>
		<description>SB, 

thank you, w/ U$D 550, I was looking for Max. downside Risk, upon 2x-checking, if we got there, it&#039;d be a whole different kettle of Fish-- from what&#039;s making sense, now..

U$D 700 does look like a much better # for support, in the current context.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>SB, </p>
<p>thank you, w/ U$D 550, I was looking for Max. downside Risk, upon 2x-checking, if we got there, it&#8217;d be a whole different kettle of Fish&#8211; from what&#8217;s making sense, now..</p>
<p>U$D 700 does look like a much better # for support, in the current context.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Barry</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/12/aigs-financial-products-division/comment-page-1/#comment-136347</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Barry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Dec 2008 13:41:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=14330#comment-136347</guid>
		<description>Mark:

if AU breaks 700, 550 looks like next support.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark:</p>
<p>if AU breaks 700, 550 looks like next support.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark E Hoffer</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/12/aigs-financial-products-division/comment-page-1/#comment-136344</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark E Hoffer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Dec 2008 12:47:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=14330#comment-136344</guid>
		<description>to add-on to Down South&#039;s line, this part:
http://www.icerocket.com/search?tab=web&amp;fr=h&amp;q=AIG+CIA

needs to be attached to the model..
~~

SB, 

I&#039;ve been thinking that Au could see a pull-back to U$D 550, do you have an idea?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>to add-on to Down South&#8217;s line, this part:<br />
<a href="http://www.icerocket.com/search?tab=web&amp;fr=h&amp;q=AIG+CIA" rel="nofollow">http://www.icerocket.com/search?tab=web&amp;fr=h&amp;q=AIG+CIA</a></p>
<p>needs to be attached to the model..<br />
~~</p>
<p>SB, </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been thinking that Au could see a pull-back to U$D 550, do you have an idea?</p>
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		<title>By: DownSouth</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/12/aigs-financial-products-division/comment-page-1/#comment-136343</link>
		<dc:creator>DownSouth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Dec 2008 12:43:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=14330#comment-136343</guid>
		<description>This quote from the  Washington Post story encapsulates the intent and spirit of the big fraud:

&quot;But even as Financial Products experimented, Savage said, he continued to stress the need to minimize risk.   &#039;That was one of the things that really marked this company, was the rigor with which it looked at the business of trading. . . . There was an academic rigor to it that very few companies match,&#039; he said.&quot; 

What these con men did was to invent a pseudo-mathematics and a pseudo-science to make the risk appear less than what it really was.  That was the only way they could hoodwink people into putting their money into things that were inherently risky, obfuscating the risk with their bogus mathematics and bogus science.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This quote from the  Washington Post story encapsulates the intent and spirit of the big fraud:</p>
<p>&#8220;But even as Financial Products experimented, Savage said, he continued to stress the need to minimize risk.   &#8216;That was one of the things that really marked this company, was the rigor with which it looked at the business of trading. . . . There was an academic rigor to it that very few companies match,&#8217; he said.&#8221; </p>
<p>What these con men did was to invent a pseudo-mathematics and a pseudo-science to make the risk appear less than what it really was.  That was the only way they could hoodwink people into putting their money into things that were inherently risky, obfuscating the risk with their bogus mathematics and bogus science.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Barry</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/12/aigs-financial-products-division/comment-page-1/#comment-136338</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Barry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Dec 2008 12:09:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=14330#comment-136338</guid>
		<description>The gold/oil ratio is near unsustainable levels...my bet is gold has a massive correction here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The gold/oil ratio is near unsustainable levels&#8230;my bet is gold has a massive correction here.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Barry</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/12/aigs-financial-products-division/comment-page-1/#comment-136337</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Barry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Dec 2008 11:59:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=14330#comment-136337</guid>
		<description>3 out of 30 Dow stocks, 10%, have required some form of direct bailout...C, AIG and GM.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>3 out of 30 Dow stocks, 10%, have required some form of direct bailout&#8230;C, AIG and GM.</p>
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		<title>By: DownSouth</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/12/aigs-financial-products-division/comment-page-1/#comment-136336</link>
		<dc:creator>DownSouth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Dec 2008 11:53:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=14330#comment-136336</guid>
		<description>Joel McDade,

I agree completely.  But to complete the picture I would also recommend:

Nassim Nicholas Taleb--&quot;The Black Swan&quot;

Kevin Phillips--&quot;Wealth and Democracy&quot;

Jacob S. Hacker--&quot;The Great Risk Shift&quot;

None of this happened purely by accident.   It was a huge fraud perpetrated on the American people and on the world, and the outcome was all but predictable.  Mandelbrot is a wonderful read, but he is blind to, or chooses to ignore, the greed and perfidy that lurks in the heart of man.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joel McDade,</p>
<p>I agree completely.  But to complete the picture I would also recommend:</p>
<p>Nassim Nicholas Taleb&#8211;&#8221;The Black Swan&#8221;</p>
<p>Kevin Phillips&#8211;&#8221;Wealth and Democracy&#8221;</p>
<p>Jacob S. Hacker&#8211;&#8221;The Great Risk Shift&#8221;</p>
<p>None of this happened purely by accident.   It was a huge fraud perpetrated on the American people and on the world, and the outcome was all but predictable.  Mandelbrot is a wonderful read, but he is blind to, or chooses to ignore, the greed and perfidy that lurks in the heart of man.</p>
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		<title>By: fraud guy</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/12/aigs-financial-products-division/comment-page-1/#comment-136317</link>
		<dc:creator>fraud guy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Dec 2008 02:46:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=14330#comment-136317</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;It is a parable about people who thought they could outwit competitors and market forces alike, and who behaved as though they were uniquely positioned to sidestep the disasters that had destroyed so many financial dreams before them.&lt;/i&gt;

Wasn&#039;t this one of the tag lines of Enron, also?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>It is a parable about people who thought they could outwit competitors and market forces alike, and who behaved as though they were uniquely positioned to sidestep the disasters that had destroyed so many financial dreams before them.</i></p>
<p>Wasn&#8217;t this one of the tag lines of Enron, also?</p>
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		<title>By: JustinTheSkeptic</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/12/aigs-financial-products-division/comment-page-1/#comment-136311</link>
		<dc:creator>JustinTheSkeptic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Dec 2008 01:57:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=14330#comment-136311</guid>
		<description>Enjoy your kosher wine!  What the hell would we do with out ya! J</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Enjoy your kosher wine!  What the hell would we do with out ya! J</p>
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