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	<title>Comments on: Crude Oil = $36.50</title>
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	<description>Macro Perspective on the Capital Markets, Economy, Geopolitics, Technology, and Digital Media</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 14 Feb 2012 15:05:57 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Greg0658</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/12/crude-oil-3650/comment-page-2/#comment-134915</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg0658</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Dec 2008 11:29:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=13200#comment-134915</guid>
		<description>DanM says - &quot;If you do your homework and go into Cdn oil companies’ income statements, you’ll see that the cost to produce a conventional barrell is around 50$. With its oil sands, Canada was gearing up for 100$+ cost of production… so you see that even with high oil prices, companies always produce to break even&quot;

me - makes ya wonder if last year was a massive field experiment to determine the worlds ability to cope at price levels - if so, where do you think the super computers are putting the point of demand destruction vs max return ... with the twist of R&amp;D for the future vs killing (acquire) the opponents attempt to jump out in front?

DanM and Justin jumpin in here

on material things vs services - it needs to be phrased more like this poster I made (but with a twist) because if a catastrophe hits you and yours (like bad weather or a job loss or etc) one thing you can always take with you - the other stash maybe not

What d&#039;ya wanna do?
What d&#039;ya need to do?
What ya gonna do?
Get ur done.
http://grfxplus.dotphoto.com/CPViewAlbum.asp?AID=5287197&amp;IID=191040240&amp;Page=1</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DanM says &#8211; &#8220;If you do your homework and go into Cdn oil companies’ income statements, you’ll see that the cost to produce a conventional barrell is around 50$. With its oil sands, Canada was gearing up for 100$+ cost of production… so you see that even with high oil prices, companies always produce to break even&#8221;</p>
<p>me &#8211; makes ya wonder if last year was a massive field experiment to determine the worlds ability to cope at price levels &#8211; if so, where do you think the super computers are putting the point of demand destruction vs max return &#8230; with the twist of R&amp;D for the future vs killing (acquire) the opponents attempt to jump out in front?</p>
<p>DanM and Justin jumpin in here</p>
<p>on material things vs services &#8211; it needs to be phrased more like this poster I made (but with a twist) because if a catastrophe hits you and yours (like bad weather or a job loss or etc) one thing you can always take with you &#8211; the other stash maybe not</p>
<p>What d&#8217;ya wanna do?<br />
What d&#8217;ya need to do?<br />
What ya gonna do?<br />
Get ur done.<br />
<a href="http://grfxplus.dotphoto.com/CPViewAlbum.asp?AID=5287197&#038;IID=191040240&#038;Page=1" rel="nofollow">http://grfxplus.dotphoto.com/CPViewAlbum.asp?AID=5287197&#038;IID=191040240&#038;Page=1</a></p>
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		<title>By: danm</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/12/crude-oil-3650/comment-page-2/#comment-134826</link>
		<dc:creator>danm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Dec 2008 20:29:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=13200#comment-134826</guid>
		<description>Yes, I&#039;ve been in many museums too and by the gloomy art realized just how hard life was throughout history.  Just visiting the cathedrals built in the middle ages and still standing today made me understand how majestic they must have looked then.

I realized how lucky I was to be born in the most comfortable era of all times and that it probably would not last.

Europe builds things to last longer but their way of life is not sustainable either. 

But I still think their socialism is somewhat a reflection of their economic maturity.  A movement from goods to services.  Services manage the goods!  For example, have you seen the underground postal system in Paris?  Impressive.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, I&#8217;ve been in many museums too and by the gloomy art realized just how hard life was throughout history.  Just visiting the cathedrals built in the middle ages and still standing today made me understand how majestic they must have looked then.</p>
<p>I realized how lucky I was to be born in the most comfortable era of all times and that it probably would not last.</p>
<p>Europe builds things to last longer but their way of life is not sustainable either. </p>
<p>But I still think their socialism is somewhat a reflection of their economic maturity.  A movement from goods to services.  Services manage the goods!  For example, have you seen the underground postal system in Paris?  Impressive.</p>
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		<title>By: JustinTheSkeptic</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/12/crude-oil-3650/comment-page-2/#comment-134811</link>
		<dc:creator>JustinTheSkeptic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Dec 2008 19:04:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=13200#comment-134811</guid>
		<description>Oh, I&#039;ll agree some of it ends up in the dump, and we as americans are fools in so many ways.  Have you ever been overseas to places like europe where they appreciate old buildings and don&#039;t adhear to a throw-away society?  They maintain the &quot;hard goods.&quot;  If things really do deteriate economically, it is the modern U.S. citizen who will be the most effected, because they cannot, and do not know how to live without throw-out this and toss-away that...and fast food, and etm&#039;s, etc....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, I&#8217;ll agree some of it ends up in the dump, and we as americans are fools in so many ways.  Have you ever been overseas to places like europe where they appreciate old buildings and don&#8217;t adhear to a throw-away society?  They maintain the &#8220;hard goods.&#8221;  If things really do deteriate economically, it is the modern U.S. citizen who will be the most effected, because they cannot, and do not know how to live without throw-out this and toss-away that&#8230;and fast food, and etm&#8217;s, etc&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: danm</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/12/crude-oil-3650/comment-page-1/#comment-134773</link>
		<dc:creator>danm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Dec 2008 16:28:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=13200#comment-134773</guid>
		<description>Yes.  And what about the buildings that went up in Toronto, using Italian Marble and now crumbling after 1 or 2 decades.  &quot;But they were supposed to last 50o years!&quot;,  they cry.  Yes, but that was in Italy, not in the freezing cold.

And let&#039;s be honest, where are the vast majority of the hard goods we produced in the last 20 years?  Try the dump.

Hard assets are just as important as services.  That&#039;s where we have to use our heads and figure out how to spend our energy efficiently.  That is produce goods AND services that will give us a better quality of life and make us richer.

But people keep on focusing on hard goods.  It&#039;s definitely a love story.  People want to spend 100K on a Porsche and get that massage for free because they own the Porsche.

Of course, it&#039;s much easier to get filthy rich by selling assets than by selling services.  You can thank leverage and economies of scale for that.  Thus our love affair with hard assets.

But hard assets will be our downfall.  Limits in energy will kill our system.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes.  And what about the buildings that went up in Toronto, using Italian Marble and now crumbling after 1 or 2 decades.  &#8220;But they were supposed to last 50o years!&#8221;,  they cry.  Yes, but that was in Italy, not in the freezing cold.</p>
<p>And let&#8217;s be honest, where are the vast majority of the hard goods we produced in the last 20 years?  Try the dump.</p>
<p>Hard assets are just as important as services.  That&#8217;s where we have to use our heads and figure out how to spend our energy efficiently.  That is produce goods AND services that will give us a better quality of life and make us richer.</p>
<p>But people keep on focusing on hard goods.  It&#8217;s definitely a love story.  People want to spend 100K on a Porsche and get that massage for free because they own the Porsche.</p>
<p>Of course, it&#8217;s much easier to get filthy rich by selling assets than by selling services.  You can thank leverage and economies of scale for that.  Thus our love affair with hard assets.</p>
<p>But hard assets will be our downfall.  Limits in energy will kill our system.</p>
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		<title>By: JustinTheSkeptic</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/12/crude-oil-3650/comment-page-1/#comment-134765</link>
		<dc:creator>JustinTheSkeptic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Dec 2008 16:04:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=13200#comment-134765</guid>
		<description>But the brick has a (not permenent) longer lasting one-to-one trade-off in value, but the rice once eaten is gone, only creating &quot;natural inflation&quot; in the process.  Yes, it would be nice to see a world in which hard assets were less coveted, but then one could lie about what the different values behine curtain number one, two, and three are, knowing that the value is make believe...a la Phoney Madoff.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But the brick has a (not permenent) longer lasting one-to-one trade-off in value, but the rice once eaten is gone, only creating &#8220;natural inflation&#8221; in the process.  Yes, it would be nice to see a world in which hard assets were less coveted, but then one could lie about what the different values behine curtain number one, two, and three are, knowing that the value is make believe&#8230;a la Phoney Madoff.</p>
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		<title>By: danm</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/12/crude-oil-3650/comment-page-1/#comment-134757</link>
		<dc:creator>danm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Dec 2008 15:35:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=13200#comment-134757</guid>
		<description>And if you give a massage and you get an IOU from your partner, the other person owes you that massage somewhere in the future.

If you sell a brick and get an IOU for a bowl of rice, you are owed a bowl of rice in the future.

In bothe cases, there needs to be trust whether or not it&#039;s hard assets or services. 

Actually the US needs to get away from the hard assets stuff because maintaining them or creating them uses up a lot of energy.

The problem is that human beings are materialists and furthermore, hard assets are easier to account for.  That&#039;s why the US is going to have trouble changing gears.  Leaders are going to focus on visible works so this implies, energy intensive projects.

The other reason why I have trouble seeing our western world reducing it&#039;s energy consumption is because human beings will always be attracted to scarce goods.  As energy and commodities get scarcer and scarcer, they will be coveted more and more.  Example:  poaching of near extinct species.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And if you give a massage and you get an IOU from your partner, the other person owes you that massage somewhere in the future.</p>
<p>If you sell a brick and get an IOU for a bowl of rice, you are owed a bowl of rice in the future.</p>
<p>In bothe cases, there needs to be trust whether or not it&#8217;s hard assets or services. </p>
<p>Actually the US needs to get away from the hard assets stuff because maintaining them or creating them uses up a lot of energy.</p>
<p>The problem is that human beings are materialists and furthermore, hard assets are easier to account for.  That&#8217;s why the US is going to have trouble changing gears.  Leaders are going to focus on visible works so this implies, energy intensive projects.</p>
<p>The other reason why I have trouble seeing our western world reducing it&#8217;s energy consumption is because human beings will always be attracted to scarce goods.  As energy and commodities get scarcer and scarcer, they will be coveted more and more.  Example:  poaching of near extinct species.</p>
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		<title>By: JustinTheSkeptic</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/12/crude-oil-3650/comment-page-1/#comment-134749</link>
		<dc:creator>JustinTheSkeptic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Dec 2008 14:57:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=13200#comment-134749</guid>
		<description>E, I know all that econbabble, but at the end of the day all things being held equal it is real terms that matter, and in real terms we have sold ourselves to the devil!  Value comes in producing real goods and services - something hard, or something that makes something hard and durable.  Think machines that make machines and machines that move something hard.  Yes, you can do paper things, like sell insurance, give massages, etc.,  but at the end of the day, once you perform them they evaportate into thin air, hard things do not.  So, when you do have your periodic repricing downward (deflation), you&#039;ll still end up with something.  This is why gold silver, and commodities look so good right now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>E, I know all that econbabble, but at the end of the day all things being held equal it is real terms that matter, and in real terms we have sold ourselves to the devil!  Value comes in producing real goods and services &#8211; something hard, or something that makes something hard and durable.  Think machines that make machines and machines that move something hard.  Yes, you can do paper things, like sell insurance, give massages, etc.,  but at the end of the day, once you perform them they evaportate into thin air, hard things do not.  So, when you do have your periodic repricing downward (deflation), you&#8217;ll still end up with something.  This is why gold silver, and commodities look so good right now.</p>
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		<title>By: matmac78</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/12/crude-oil-3650/comment-page-1/#comment-134745</link>
		<dc:creator>matmac78</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Dec 2008 14:50:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=13200#comment-134745</guid>
		<description>This is only the Jan roll getting blown out. All other months are bid above $40. Check out open interest and volume in Jan and you will see that they are non-existent. Every one is trading Feb and March...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is only the Jan roll getting blown out. All other months are bid above $40. Check out open interest and volume in Jan and you will see that they are non-existent. Every one is trading Feb and March&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: danm</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/12/crude-oil-3650/comment-page-1/#comment-134744</link>
		<dc:creator>danm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Dec 2008 14:45:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=13200#comment-134744</guid>
		<description>Justin:

I never said they would fix the problem.  I think they will create a bigger one: huge inflation.  Maybe I&#039;m wrong.

But at the end of the day, they will do everything in thier power to devalue that debt and every scenario leads me to think that the screw-ups will get bigger and bigger.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Justin:</p>
<p>I never said they would fix the problem.  I think they will create a bigger one: huge inflation.  Maybe I&#8217;m wrong.</p>
<p>But at the end of the day, they will do everything in thier power to devalue that debt and every scenario leads me to think that the screw-ups will get bigger and bigger.</p>
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		<title>By: E</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/12/crude-oil-3650/comment-page-1/#comment-134741</link>
		<dc:creator>E</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Dec 2008 14:31:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=13200#comment-134741</guid>
		<description>JustinTheSkeptic, assets are priced in dollars.  So they can remain at their current prices by lowering the value of the dollar.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JustinTheSkeptic, assets are priced in dollars.  So they can remain at their current prices by lowering the value of the dollar.</p>
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