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	<title>Comments on: How to Save Detroit</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/12/how-to-save-detroit/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/12/how-to-save-detroit/</link>
	<description>Macro Perspective on the Capital Markets, Economy, Geopolitics, Technology, and Digital Media</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 14 Feb 2012 18:29:42 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Urkel</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/12/how-to-save-detroit/comment-page-2/#comment-134515</link>
		<dc:creator>Urkel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Dec 2008 18:05:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=12952#comment-134515</guid>
		<description>where&#039;s the Smolvo?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>where&#8217;s the Smolvo?</p>
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		<title>By: Mark E Hoffer</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/12/how-to-save-detroit/comment-page-2/#comment-134076</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark E Hoffer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Dec 2008 07:07:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=12952#comment-134076</guid>
		<description>patfla, 

yeah, it&#039;s amazing, here it be: you really can&#039;t go wrong and if still undecided just buy both!! 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by LThompson; 11-29-2006 at 11:48 AM. 

just a short 24 1/2 months ago..

those &#039;hybrid&#039; boards are amusing, especially early on, a lot of those peep thought ICE/Electric Motor technology was novel, regenerative braking was some sort of breakthrough..sadly, they&#039;ve been around longer than 90% of the purchasers..

but, worse, for as, self-proclaimed, &#039;green world&#039; as they claim to be, 90% don&#039;t even know the Civic GX exists, or have contemplated why CNG is the fuel that will rebuild the Economy..Plug-ins and Smart Grids are a misdirection/canard..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>patfla, </p>
<p>yeah, it&#8217;s amazing, here it be: you really can&#8217;t go wrong and if still undecided just buy both!! </p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8211;<br />
Last edited by LThompson; 11-29-2006 at 11:48 AM. </p>
<p>just a short 24 1/2 months ago..</p>
<p>those &#8216;hybrid&#8217; boards are amusing, especially early on, a lot of those peep thought ICE/Electric Motor technology was novel, regenerative braking was some sort of breakthrough..sadly, they&#8217;ve been around longer than 90% of the purchasers..</p>
<p>but, worse, for as, self-proclaimed, &#8216;green world&#8217; as they claim to be, 90% don&#8217;t even know the Civic GX exists, or have contemplated why CNG is the fuel that will rebuild the Economy..Plug-ins and Smart Grids are a misdirection/canard..</p>
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		<title>By: patfla</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/12/how-to-save-detroit/comment-page-2/#comment-134027</link>
		<dc:creator>patfla</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Dec 2008 02:39:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=12952#comment-134027</guid>
		<description>Sorry Mark - misunderstood.  I was comparing the TCH with a Camry XLE.  Your comparison is vs. a Prius.  Yes it could well have been 5K.  I&#039;ll look things up and do the math later.  But as the link you provided supports:

http://www.greenhybrid.com/discuss/f13/camry-hybrid-vs-prius-8159/

most posters find it very difficult (read: impossible) to directly compare the TCH vs. a Prius.

Some posters advise: &quot;buy both&quot;.  Heh (should look again for the dates on those posts).  Wonder how many people are &quot;buying both&quot; in the present state of our economy?

That smacks of the &#039;4 cars/vehicles in every garage&#039; thinking.  Which is native to California where I live now, but not to Boston where (and when) I grew up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry Mark &#8211; misunderstood.  I was comparing the TCH with a Camry XLE.  Your comparison is vs. a Prius.  Yes it could well have been 5K.  I&#8217;ll look things up and do the math later.  But as the link you provided supports:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.greenhybrid.com/discuss/f13/camry-hybrid-vs-prius-8159/" rel="nofollow">http://www.greenhybrid.com/discuss/f13/camry-hybrid-vs-prius-8159/</a></p>
<p>most posters find it very difficult (read: impossible) to directly compare the TCH vs. a Prius.</p>
<p>Some posters advise: &#8220;buy both&#8221;.  Heh (should look again for the dates on those posts).  Wonder how many people are &#8220;buying both&#8221; in the present state of our economy?</p>
<p>That smacks of the &#8217;4 cars/vehicles in every garage&#8217; thinking.  Which is native to California where I live now, but not to Boston where (and when) I grew up.</p>
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		<title>By: ButtoMcFarty</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/12/how-to-save-detroit/comment-page-2/#comment-133978</link>
		<dc:creator>ButtoMcFarty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Dec 2008 00:54:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=12952#comment-133978</guid>
		<description>The MO State Troopers convinced me to trade off my beloved Kaw ZZR1200 for  a new VStrom1ooo. Kinda like going from Secretariat to a small draft horse.  Strictly utilitarian motorcycle.....but still beats all hell out of any cage.

Of course not much riding right now....
winter sucks like that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The MO State Troopers convinced me to trade off my beloved Kaw ZZR1200 for  a new VStrom1ooo. Kinda like going from Secretariat to a small draft horse.  Strictly utilitarian motorcycle&#8230;..but still beats all hell out of any cage.</p>
<p>Of course not much riding right now&#8230;.<br />
winter sucks like that.</p>
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		<title>By: philipat</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/12/how-to-save-detroit/comment-page-2/#comment-133941</link>
		<dc:creator>philipat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Dec 2008 22:56:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=12952#comment-133941</guid>
		<description>Barry,

The opposite Photoshop picture would also be fun. That is the stretched Smart?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Barry,</p>
<p>The opposite Photoshop picture would also be fun. That is the stretched Smart?</p>
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		<title>By: Mark E Hoffer</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/12/how-to-save-detroit/comment-page-2/#comment-133914</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark E Hoffer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Dec 2008 22:05:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=12952#comment-133914</guid>
		<description>patfla, 

I hear ya, the TCH, is, to me, the best hybrid avail. at this time..

though, with this: The Camry was, then, an extra 5? , is was referring to the TCH v. Prius..

past that, you&#039;re point about &#039;fewer stops at the gas station&#039; is very valid..It&#039;s funny that one never sees that in the &#039;popular&#039; MPG/Cost payback calcs..afterall, we, all, only have 10 080 a week.. 
~~

(it’s all fun and games until your final drive bearings fail, it seizes, and catches fire :/)

KN, 

ya gotta know to hate when That happens..  : )</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>patfla, </p>
<p>I hear ya, the TCH, is, to me, the best hybrid avail. at this time..</p>
<p>though, with this: The Camry was, then, an extra 5? , is was referring to the TCH v. Prius..</p>
<p>past that, you&#8217;re point about &#8216;fewer stops at the gas station&#8217; is very valid..It&#8217;s funny that one never sees that in the &#8216;popular&#8217; MPG/Cost payback calcs..afterall, we, all, only have 10 080 a week..<br />
~~</p>
<p>(it’s all fun and games until your final drive bearings fail, it seizes, and catches fire :/)</p>
<p>KN, </p>
<p>ya gotta know to hate when That happens..  : )</p>
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		<title>By: Dr. Kenneth Noisewater</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/12/how-to-save-detroit/comment-page-2/#comment-133815</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr. Kenneth Noisewater</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Dec 2008 18:59:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=12952#comment-133815</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;so right! as in, I favor my ‘72 Norton Combat Commando for the 20 mile round-trip commute @ 52 mpg (non-disclosure: @ unstated ?? mph) though the GHGs prolly aren’t so eco-friendly&lt;/i&gt;

Nice...  I&#039;m a bit of a spoiled brat on my GS (heated handgrips, GPS, ABS, etc) but anything on 2 wheels is fine by me...  

(it&#039;s all fun and games until your final drive bearings fail, it seizes, and catches fire :/)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>so right! as in, I favor my ‘72 Norton Combat Commando for the 20 mile round-trip commute @ 52 mpg (non-disclosure: @ unstated ?? mph) though the GHGs prolly aren’t so eco-friendly</i></p>
<p>Nice&#8230;  I&#8217;m a bit of a spoiled brat on my GS (heated handgrips, GPS, ABS, etc) but anything on 2 wheels is fine by me&#8230;  </p>
<p>(it&#8217;s all fun and games until your final drive bearings fail, it seizes, and catches fire :/)</p>
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		<title>By: patfla</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/12/how-to-save-detroit/comment-page-2/#comment-133814</link>
		<dc:creator>patfla</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Dec 2008 18:54:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=12952#comment-133814</guid>
		<description>Mark&gt;

&gt; patfla,
&gt; The Camry was, then, an extra 5? 

That was if you got it kitted out with the full package.  Basically, you pay an extra 3 or 4K for the Nav system, &#039;moon&#039; roof&#039;, and power-assisted passenger side door.

I decided I didn&#039;t need these (although in retrospect it would be nice to have the Nav system).

So I got the &#039;basic&#039; and the premium I paid (over an ICE XLE) was, I think, something like 3K.  Even with the &#039;basic&#039; you get ESC and such nice perks as an easily accessible audio out for my iPod.  Bluetooth too of course- and since CA passed a no-talking-directly-on-your-cell-phone-while-driving law, this has proven not just useful but helps me to comply with the law.  I think the basic package has pretty much everything (with exceptions above) that the XLE has.

Imagine my chagrin however when, contrary to what our tax acct had told us (after a too cursory look at things), AMT rendered me unable to claim the tax credit - which would have brought the premium to under 1K.

Duh.  Poor due diligence.  

Still, I&#039;m happy with the purchase.  And every time when gas goes to over $4/gl (as will happen again), the speed with which my amortization time shrinks speeds up noticeably.

Moreover, the car has a 14.5 gal gas tank (actually 17.5 but that&#039;s part of a little secret regarding hybrids).  Whatever the case, I got about 500 miles on a tank of gas.  The infrequency of gas station visits that that allows is just another green check mark under the Yes column.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark&gt;</p>
<p>&gt; patfla,<br />
&gt; The Camry was, then, an extra 5? </p>
<p>That was if you got it kitted out with the full package.  Basically, you pay an extra 3 or 4K for the Nav system, &#8216;moon&#8217; roof&#8217;, and power-assisted passenger side door.</p>
<p>I decided I didn&#8217;t need these (although in retrospect it would be nice to have the Nav system).</p>
<p>So I got the &#8216;basic&#8217; and the premium I paid (over an ICE XLE) was, I think, something like 3K.  Even with the &#8216;basic&#8217; you get ESC and such nice perks as an easily accessible audio out for my iPod.  Bluetooth too of course- and since CA passed a no-talking-directly-on-your-cell-phone-while-driving law, this has proven not just useful but helps me to comply with the law.  I think the basic package has pretty much everything (with exceptions above) that the XLE has.</p>
<p>Imagine my chagrin however when, contrary to what our tax acct had told us (after a too cursory look at things), AMT rendered me unable to claim the tax credit &#8211; which would have brought the premium to under 1K.</p>
<p>Duh.  Poor due diligence.  </p>
<p>Still, I&#8217;m happy with the purchase.  And every time when gas goes to over $4/gl (as will happen again), the speed with which my amortization time shrinks speeds up noticeably.</p>
<p>Moreover, the car has a 14.5 gal gas tank (actually 17.5 but that&#8217;s part of a little secret regarding hybrids).  Whatever the case, I got about 500 miles on a tank of gas.  The infrequency of gas station visits that that allows is just another green check mark under the Yes column.</p>
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		<title>By: batmando</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/12/how-to-save-detroit/comment-page-2/#comment-133786</link>
		<dc:creator>batmando</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Dec 2008 17:37:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=12952#comment-133786</guid>
		<description>@ Dr. Kenneth Noisewater Says:

&quot;Dude… Motorcycle…
&quot;Get something that does 45-50mpg and 0-60 in less than 5 seconds, a Japanese 650 UJM…&quot;

so right! as in, I favor my &#039;72 Norton Combat Commando for the 20 mile round-trip commute @ 52 mpg (non-disclosure: @ unstated ?? mph) though the GHGs prolly aren&#039;t so eco-friendly

- batmando -</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Dr. Kenneth Noisewater Says:</p>
<p>&#8220;Dude… Motorcycle…<br />
&#8220;Get something that does 45-50mpg and 0-60 in less than 5 seconds, a Japanese 650 UJM…&#8221;</p>
<p>so right! as in, I favor my &#8217;72 Norton Combat Commando for the 20 mile round-trip commute @ 52 mpg (non-disclosure: @ unstated ?? mph) though the GHGs prolly aren&#8217;t so eco-friendly</p>
<p>- batmando -</p>
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		<title>By: hswalj</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/12/how-to-save-detroit/comment-page-2/#comment-133772</link>
		<dc:creator>hswalj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Dec 2008 16:59:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=12952#comment-133772</guid>
		<description>You can&#039;t be serious . . . might buy one if NO one else is on the road.  Do you have children?  Would you put them in this thing?  On the other hand if I got suicidal . . . well, you get the picture!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You can&#8217;t be serious . . . might buy one if NO one else is on the road.  Do you have children?  Would you put them in this thing?  On the other hand if I got suicidal . . . well, you get the picture!</p>
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