Comments on: Look Out Below (Detroit version) http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/12/look-out-below-4/ Macro Perspective on the Capital Markets, Economy, Geopolitics, Technology, and Digital Media Tue, 14 Feb 2012 13:51:54 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.5 By: Greg0658 http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/12/look-out-below-4/comment-page-3/#comment-135009 Greg0658 Sun, 21 Dec 2008 15:06:14 +0000 http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=12729#comment-135009 I said a minute ago - "are the passing on of words from generation to generation a curse or a blessing?" lame last thought .. there have been alot of great advancements due to words being passed on and some not so good hope ya get the message :-) I said a minute ago – “are the passing on of words from generation to generation a curse or a blessing?”

lame last thought ..
there have been alot of great advancements due to words being passed on
and some not so good

hope ya get the message
:-)

]]> By: Greg0658 http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/12/look-out-below-4/comment-page-3/#comment-135006 Greg0658 Sun, 21 Dec 2008 14:49:28 +0000 http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=12729#comment-135006 I've had time to learn a little on FlashPlayer see post Greg0658 Says: December 12th, 2008 at 8:26 am found this control panel that I have to pass on ... fyi: http://www.macromedia.com/support/documentation/en/flashplayer/help/settings_manager04.html so much to know - so little time are the passing on of words from generation to generation a curse or a blessing? I’ve had time to learn a little on FlashPlayer
see post Greg0658 Says: December 12th, 2008 at 8:26 am

found this control panel that I have to pass on … fyi:
http://www.macromedia.com/support/documentation/en/flashplayer/help/settings_manager04.html

so much to know – so little time
are the passing on of words from generation to generation a curse or a blessing?

]]> By: wunsacon http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/12/look-out-below-4/comment-page-2/#comment-133114 wunsacon Sat, 13 Dec 2008 08:32:07 +0000 http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=12729#comment-133114 These autoworkers make something like -- what? -- $14-30/hr? Compare that with the 6-figure and sometimes 7-figure salaries of run-of-the-mill mortgage brokers instrumental to the bubble/bust. Meritocracy? I think not!! These autoworkers make something like — what? — $14-30/hr? Compare that with the 6-figure and sometimes 7-figure salaries of run-of-the-mill mortgage brokers instrumental to the bubble/bust. Meritocracy? I think not!!

]]> By: Greg0658 http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/12/look-out-below-4/comment-page-2/#comment-133103 Greg0658 Sat, 13 Dec 2008 05:50:01 +0000 http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=12729#comment-133103 Bruce N Tennessee Says: December 12th, 2008 at 12:15 pm "You guys are right…there is another solution. UAW becomes owners of GM. Then they can build whatever cars they want and pay whatever wages the market will allow" I like that one. You think the banks will allow the UAW pension savings fund to withdrawl their $#s and transfer the $ (like 3-5 Billion) to own the company? Instead of the bankruptcy sollution? Maybe play it like a Wall Street pro and get it down to a $1-2B pricetag first. If we hear something like "funds not avaialble for immediate withdrawl" thats what the TARP is for isn't it? Hey the UAW can become a duopoly too - a bank (GMAC) and make money the easy way too? Curmudgeon Says: December 12th, 2008 at 1:21 pm "And that doesn’t include the GIS, more commonly known as the “Jobs Bank”, where they pay up to 90% of your salary for doing NOTHING, all the way up to retirement, when they start paying that, too." That one gets me - coming from die hard economist. The UAW and GM created an Unemployment Insurance System outside of the government, an industry self contained system. Do you approve of the WalMart* way of providing unemployment and health benefits or the “Jobs Bank”? Which is it? Lets set the standard. businessword.com Says: December 12th, 2008 at 11:11 am "How many have noticed how CNBC’s Phil Labeau, the network’s auto industry reporter, is in the tank for the auto industry and the UAW. John Harwood isn’t much better" Ya I've noticed ... the compassion for the other world ... happens when you get outside of the "Financial Capital of the World" ... that exists by wringing every cent it can from the real work force for its own survival. Bruce N Tennessee Says: December 12th, 2008 at 12:15 pm
“You guys are right…there is another solution. UAW becomes owners of GM. Then they can build whatever cars they want and pay whatever wages the market will allow”

I like that one.
You think the banks will allow the UAW pension savings fund to withdrawl their $#s and transfer the $ (like 3-5 Billion) to own the company? Instead of the bankruptcy sollution? Maybe play it like a Wall Street pro and get it down to a $1-2B pricetag first. If we hear something like “funds not avaialble for immediate withdrawl” thats what the TARP is for isn’t it? Hey the UAW can become a duopoly too – a bank (GMAC) and make money the easy way too?

Curmudgeon Says: December 12th, 2008 at 1:21 pm
“And that doesn’t include the GIS, more commonly known as the “Jobs Bank”, where they pay up to 90% of your salary for doing NOTHING, all the way up to retirement, when they start paying that, too.”

That one gets me – coming from die hard economist. The UAW and GM created an Unemployment Insurance System outside of the government, an industry self contained system. Do you approve of the WalMart* way of providing unemployment and health benefits or the “Jobs Bank”? Which is it? Lets set the standard.

businessword.com Says: December 12th, 2008 at 11:11 am
“How many have noticed how CNBC’s Phil Labeau, the network’s auto industry reporter, is in the tank for the auto industry and the UAW. John Harwood isn’t much better”

Ya I’ve noticed … the compassion for the other world … happens when you get outside of the “Financial Capital of the World” … that exists by wringing every cent it can from the real work force for its own survival.

]]> By: ottovbvs http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/12/look-out-below-4/comment-page-2/#comment-132968 ottovbvs Fri, 12 Dec 2008 20:30:56 +0000 http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=12729#comment-132968 The Curmudgeon Says: December 12th, 2008 at 2:28 pm ottovbvs is a pimply-faced snotball. No doubt I am, but with this situation as with most situations the devil is in the details. But all the facts as I laid them out are accurate if inconvenient. And as they will tell you in MBA marketing 101 classes there is a world of difference between a commodity product like airline tickets with a face value of maybe $750 and shelf life of two weeks and a high value premium product with a shelf life of years. That's why they have frequent flier programs to differentiate the product. The Curmudgeon Says:

December 12th, 2008 at 2:28 pm
ottovbvs is a pimply-faced snotball.

No doubt I am, but with this situation as with most situations the devil is in the details. But all the facts as I laid them out are accurate if inconvenient. And as they will tell you in MBA marketing 101 classes there is a world of difference between a commodity product like airline tickets with a face value of maybe $750 and shelf life of two weeks and a high value premium product with a shelf life of years. That’s why they have frequent flier programs to differentiate the product.

]]> By: DeDude http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/12/look-out-below-4/comment-page-2/#comment-132963 DeDude Fri, 12 Dec 2008 20:20:13 +0000 http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=12729#comment-132963 So part of the $70/hour is the cost of the health insurance to 432,000 retirees. If government had not been a sleep at the wheel, they would have required that this cost had been deposited in a trust fund back when those 432,000 retirees were still working and producing cars. The current crisis has a lot to do with allowing previous shareholders and CEO’s to rape and plunder the company, rather than keeping them honest and responsible. Stop blaming the workers for this kind of mismanagement. So part of the $70/hour is the cost of the health insurance to 432,000 retirees. If government had not been a sleep at the wheel, they would have required that this cost had been deposited in a trust fund back when those 432,000 retirees were still working and producing cars. The current crisis has a lot to do with allowing previous shareholders and CEO’s to rape and plunder the company, rather than keeping them honest and responsible. Stop blaming the workers for this kind of mismanagement.

]]> By: The Curmudgeon http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/12/look-out-below-4/comment-page-2/#comment-132955 The Curmudgeon Fri, 12 Dec 2008 19:48:29 +0000 http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=12729#comment-132955 Very true statement. Just look at the up-front cost structure - apples to rocks comparison Yes, and Toyota, BMW, Mercedes, Honda, Nissan, et al., don't face the same up-front cost structures as the "big" three? I guess I should have said that making cars in America by a domestic automobile manufacturer but not a foreign automobile manufacturer is so much more complicated... Enjoyed the tit for tat with all you UAW bleeders, but I gotta go make some money so Uncle Sam can dole it out at the union hall. Curmudgeon out. Very true statement. Just look at the up-front cost structure – apples to rocks comparison

Yes, and Toyota, BMW, Mercedes, Honda, Nissan, et al., don’t face the same up-front cost structures as the “big” three?

I guess I should have said that making cars in America by a domestic automobile manufacturer but not a foreign automobile manufacturer is so much more complicated…

Enjoyed the tit for tat with all you UAW bleeders, but I gotta go make some money so Uncle Sam can dole it out at the union hall.

Curmudgeon out.

]]> By: Bruce in Tn http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/12/look-out-below-4/comment-page-2/#comment-132954 Bruce in Tn Fri, 12 Dec 2008 19:44:35 +0000 http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=12729#comment-132954 Curmudge: That made me smile..... Curmudge:

That made me smile…..

]]> By: ap http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/12/look-out-below-4/comment-page-2/#comment-132950 ap Fri, 12 Dec 2008 19:36:43 +0000 http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=12729#comment-132950 "Making cars is so much more complicated than carrying passengers at six hundred miles per hour and thirty thousand feet. " Very true statement. Just look at the up-front cost structure - apples to rocks comparison. “Making cars is so much more complicated than carrying passengers at six hundred miles per hour and thirty thousand feet. ”

Very true statement. Just look at the up-front cost structure – apples to rocks comparison.

]]> By: DeDude http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/12/look-out-below-4/comment-page-2/#comment-132948 DeDude Fri, 12 Dec 2008 19:32:30 +0000 http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=12729#comment-132948 Get the truth about that $ 70/hour here: http://mediamatters.org/items/200812060002 As they point out the $69 “includes not only current workers' hourly wages and benefits, such as health care and retirement, but also retirement and health-care benefits that U.S. automakers are providing for current retirees” So the reason it gets so high is that the retirement benefits promised back when their workforce were a lot bigger is calculated into the number for their current labor cost. So as usual the right wing media and its servants speew out misinformation and neo-con talking points not the truth. Get the truth about that $ 70/hour here:

http://mediamatters.org/items/200812060002

As they point out the $69 “includes not only current workers’ hourly wages and benefits, such as health care and retirement, but also retirement and health-care benefits that U.S. automakers are providing for current retirees”

So the reason it gets so high is that the retirement benefits promised back when their workforce were a lot bigger is calculated into the number for their current labor cost. So as usual the right wing media and its servants speew out misinformation and neo-con talking points not the truth.

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