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	<title>Comments on: SO AGAIN &#8212; HOW DID IT HAPPEN?</title>
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	<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/12/so-again-how-did-it-happen/</link>
	<description>Macro Perspective on the Capital Markets, Economy, Geopolitics, Technology, and Digital Media</description>
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		<title>By: Mark E Hoffer</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/12/so-again-how-did-it-happen/comment-page-1/#comment-133608</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark E Hoffer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Dec 2008 23:18:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=12946#comment-133608</guid>
		<description>KJ, 

re: &quot;What is money? Money is trust, someone said recently.&quot; that&#039;s close, though there&#039;s an oversight.

We&#039;ve No Money in circulation.  It is, barring the rare exception, All Currency, and, laughably, clipped Coinage--truly, tokens.

Currency is, certainly, &#039;Trust&#039;.  Or, rather, a blinkered belief in a torturous Confidence-Game. 

The point that Winnie draws out: &quot;He tells us, for example, that money is nothing more than a representative of labor, either physical or mental. Extrapolation tells us that debt then is a claim against future labor (productivity).&quot; --One I agree with, should put in stark relief the Grand Fraud of any entity emmitting money-substitutes &#039;from thin air&#039;..

see: http://www.constitution.org/uslaw/coinage1792.txt
Dollars or Units    DOLLARS OR UNITS--each to be of the value of

                    a Spanish milled dollar as the same is now

                    current, and to contain three hundred and 

                    seventy-one grains and four sixteenth parts   

                    of a grain of pure, or four hundred and

                    sixteen grains of standard silver.

note: one grain= 1/437.5 ounce
http://chestofbooks.com/finance/banking/Banking-Credits-And-Finance/Denominations-Weight-And-Fineness-Of-The-Coins-Of-Fee-Unit.html

for further..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>KJ, </p>
<p>re: &#8220;What is money? Money is trust, someone said recently.&#8221; that&#8217;s close, though there&#8217;s an oversight.</p>
<p>We&#8217;ve No Money in circulation.  It is, barring the rare exception, All Currency, and, laughably, clipped Coinage&#8211;truly, tokens.</p>
<p>Currency is, certainly, &#8216;Trust&#8217;.  Or, rather, a blinkered belief in a torturous Confidence-Game. </p>
<p>The point that Winnie draws out: &#8220;He tells us, for example, that money is nothing more than a representative of labor, either physical or mental. Extrapolation tells us that debt then is a claim against future labor (productivity).&#8221; &#8211;One I agree with, should put in stark relief the Grand Fraud of any entity emmitting money-substitutes &#8216;from thin air&#8217;..</p>
<p>see: <a href="http://www.constitution.org/uslaw/coinage1792.txt" rel="nofollow">http://www.constitution.org/uslaw/coinage1792.txt</a><br />
Dollars or Units    DOLLARS OR UNITS&#8211;each to be of the value of</p>
<p>                    a Spanish milled dollar as the same is now</p>
<p>                    current, and to contain three hundred and </p>
<p>                    seventy-one grains and four sixteenth parts   </p>
<p>                    of a grain of pure, or four hundred and</p>
<p>                    sixteen grains of standard silver.</p>
<p>note: one grain= 1/437.5 ounce<br />
<a href="http://chestofbooks.com/finance/banking/Banking-Credits-And-Finance/Denominations-Weight-And-Fineness-Of-The-Coins-Of-Fee-Unit.html" rel="nofollow">http://chestofbooks.com/finance/banking/Banking-Credits-And-Finance/Denominations-Weight-And-Fineness-Of-The-Coins-Of-Fee-Unit.html</a></p>
<p>for further..</p>
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		<title>By: gspencer</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/12/so-again-how-did-it-happen/comment-page-1/#comment-133598</link>
		<dc:creator>gspencer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Dec 2008 22:45:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=12946#comment-133598</guid>
		<description>The dollar buying power or value is partly about psychology when it is backed by the &quot;full faith and credit of the US government&quot; (junk bobds) rather than gold.  The USA government is going to continue to just crank up the presses and print more dollars, T-Bills, Government Bonds (and let the buying power of everyone else&#039;s wages fall as the value of the dollar falls) to pay for the US balance of trade, government payrolls, bailouts, entitlements, pork barrels, operations, social schemes, wars, infrastructure, and etc.  Foreign Governments and their rulers will continue buy the real estate, industries, breweries, hotels, factories and financial institutions located in the USA with the decreasing value bonds and dollars that we gave to them to manufacture the things that we imported and consumed rather than us working to manufacture these things.  The USA Government is supporting this selling of our children&#039;s legacy to foreign entities by calling it &quot;Investing in America&quot;.  Our Children will probably become employees (or maybe slaves) to the foreign countries and individuals that will own everything in the USA.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The dollar buying power or value is partly about psychology when it is backed by the &#8220;full faith and credit of the US government&#8221; (junk bobds) rather than gold.  The USA government is going to continue to just crank up the presses and print more dollars, T-Bills, Government Bonds (and let the buying power of everyone else&#8217;s wages fall as the value of the dollar falls) to pay for the US balance of trade, government payrolls, bailouts, entitlements, pork barrels, operations, social schemes, wars, infrastructure, and etc.  Foreign Governments and their rulers will continue buy the real estate, industries, breweries, hotels, factories and financial institutions located in the USA with the decreasing value bonds and dollars that we gave to them to manufacture the things that we imported and consumed rather than us working to manufacture these things.  The USA Government is supporting this selling of our children&#8217;s legacy to foreign entities by calling it &#8220;Investing in America&#8221;.  Our Children will probably become employees (or maybe slaves) to the foreign countries and individuals that will own everything in the USA.</p>
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		<title>By: Winston Munn</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/12/so-again-how-did-it-happen/comment-page-1/#comment-133579</link>
		<dc:creator>Winston Munn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Dec 2008 21:46:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=12946#comment-133579</guid>
		<description>KJ,

I would suggest anyone with interest in economics should read the theories of one of Barry&#039;s better posters, Eclectic, on the old Big Picture site.  He tells us, for example, that money is nothing more than a representative of labor, either physical or mental.  Extrapolation tells us that debt then is a claim against future labor (productivity). 

In my mind, the monetarist has it exactly backwards, attempting to alter psychology with monetary policy, rather than having psychology drive monetary policy - it takes so great of overreach to change psychology that the seeds of the next bubble cannot be mopped up fast enough to prevent a repetition.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>KJ,</p>
<p>I would suggest anyone with interest in economics should read the theories of one of Barry&#8217;s better posters, Eclectic, on the old Big Picture site.  He tells us, for example, that money is nothing more than a representative of labor, either physical or mental.  Extrapolation tells us that debt then is a claim against future labor (productivity). </p>
<p>In my mind, the monetarist has it exactly backwards, attempting to alter psychology with monetary policy, rather than having psychology drive monetary policy &#8211; it takes so great of overreach to change psychology that the seeds of the next bubble cannot be mopped up fast enough to prevent a repetition.</p>
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		<title>By: KJ Foehr</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/12/so-again-how-did-it-happen/comment-page-1/#comment-133567</link>
		<dc:creator>KJ Foehr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Dec 2008 21:06:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=12946#comment-133567</guid>
		<description>Above should say &quot;imaginary asset values&quot; instead of &quot;imaginary assets value&quot;.  Sheesh I hate typing and editing.  One little letter can make a big difference sometimes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Above should say &#8220;imaginary asset values&#8221; instead of &#8220;imaginary assets value&#8221;.  Sheesh I hate typing and editing.  One little letter can make a big difference sometimes.</p>
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		<title>By: KJ Foehr</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/12/so-again-how-did-it-happen/comment-page-1/#comment-133561</link>
		<dc:creator>KJ Foehr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Dec 2008 21:00:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=12946#comment-133561</guid>
		<description>As Winston said above, it is about psychology, not money per se, IMO.  What is money? Money is trust, someone said recently.  So bubbles are more about too much trust: overconfidence and the imaginary assets value and resulting psychological wealth effect.  

Can every share of Apple be worth $94?  No.  If everyone tries to sell them at once, very few shares will actually be sold for that price, and some people may end up not being able to sell them for any price.  The same is true with real estate, commodities, and all assets.  

So over time (via a positive feedback loop I guess), we build these huge bubbles that are 90% air and 10% substance.  Thus when the overconfidence disappears in a rush of fear, all the imaginary asset values disappear in a flash – gone to money heaven from whence they came.  

Money and debt supports this process, but I think the real driver is psychology / overconfidence.

As they say, easy come easy go.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As Winston said above, it is about psychology, not money per se, IMO.  What is money? Money is trust, someone said recently.  So bubbles are more about too much trust: overconfidence and the imaginary assets value and resulting psychological wealth effect.  </p>
<p>Can every share of Apple be worth $94?  No.  If everyone tries to sell them at once, very few shares will actually be sold for that price, and some people may end up not being able to sell them for any price.  The same is true with real estate, commodities, and all assets.  </p>
<p>So over time (via a positive feedback loop I guess), we build these huge bubbles that are 90% air and 10% substance.  Thus when the overconfidence disappears in a rush of fear, all the imaginary asset values disappear in a flash – gone to money heaven from whence they came.  </p>
<p>Money and debt supports this process, but I think the real driver is psychology / overconfidence.</p>
<p>As they say, easy come easy go.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark E Hoffer</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/12/so-again-how-did-it-happen/comment-page-1/#comment-133541</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark E Hoffer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Dec 2008 20:24:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=12946#comment-133541</guid>
		<description>Sir Treadway, 

Nice piece, you make many cogent points.  Hopefully it will be widely read and fully contemplated.

At the very minimum, you do well by remembering Minsky.  His insights, too oft overlooked, or, worse,  scorned, offer the missing piece to many puzzles.

And, contra this: &quot;Robert Shiller asserted that no bubbles occurred until the introduction of newspapers.&quot;, thoughtful pamphlets like yours would do well to keep the &#039;yeastiness&#039; to a minimum.
~~

Winnie, 

nice point re: the foundational holes, to be observed, in the works of the &#039;Eonomagicians&#039;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sir Treadway, </p>
<p>Nice piece, you make many cogent points.  Hopefully it will be widely read and fully contemplated.</p>
<p>At the very minimum, you do well by remembering Minsky.  His insights, too oft overlooked, or, worse,  scorned, offer the missing piece to many puzzles.</p>
<p>And, contra this: &#8220;Robert Shiller asserted that no bubbles occurred until the introduction of newspapers.&#8221;, thoughtful pamphlets like yours would do well to keep the &#8216;yeastiness&#8217; to a minimum.<br />
~~</p>
<p>Winnie, </p>
<p>nice point re: the foundational holes, to be observed, in the works of the &#8216;Eonomagicians&#8217;.</p>
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		<title>By: Winston Munn</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/12/so-again-how-did-it-happen/comment-page-1/#comment-133528</link>
		<dc:creator>Winston Munn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Dec 2008 19:46:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=12946#comment-133528</guid>
		<description>The monetarist always has trouble because economic action is based on individual choice and is thus pyschologically driven and not subject to numerical quantification.  Here lies the problem.  It is neither velocity nor monetary stock that matters; the only thing that matters is the velocity of active monetary stock; if increased monetary stock is hoarded there is no real world validation of Y=VM.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The monetarist always has trouble because economic action is based on individual choice and is thus pyschologically driven and not subject to numerical quantification.  Here lies the problem.  It is neither velocity nor monetary stock that matters; the only thing that matters is the velocity of active monetary stock; if increased monetary stock is hoarded there is no real world validation of Y=VM.</p>
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