Comments on: Why Washington Wants to Save Wall St. and Sink Detroit

By: SpeakToMe

SpeakToMe — Mon, 08 Dec 2008 14:25:24 +0000

There are smart guys on both sides of the aisle that believe that Wall Street received a loan that will be paid back, while the Big 3 have no hope of paying back any loan. That’s what is causing the foot dragging in regard to the Big 3 while WS has been showered with fresh capital.

By: AnotherGuy

AnotherGuy — Sun, 07 Dec 2008 19:51:50 +0000

I said this on a different thread but I’ll say it again. The SUV thing is a red herring. The big 3 are down because they made poor quality cars. The Japanese made more reliable cars that sold for higher prices.
The big 3 either didn’t have what it took to make good cars or they didn’t recognize how important quality and reliability were to buyers. I think a combination of both. It’s really a lack of leadership and vision. I think if Apple made cars it would have looked quite different.

It’s not clear though why the banks have come first, here are two guesses:
1. Higher perceived impact of letting them fail.
2. More connected to the politicians.

Japanese companies are building cars in the US to get around US trade barriers so it’s not exactly like it was free trade in the first place. You can’t put barriers up and then cry foul when the other side figures out a way around them…

Bottom line is I think the big 3 have to be bailed out but a price needs to be extracted for that. If they can’t change course after government help they should be left to fall.

By: mudpuppy

mudpuppy — Sun, 07 Dec 2008 19:17:05 +0000

Personally, if I were employed in a Toyota factory in Mississippi I would be calling my Senators and Reps urging them to vote for the auto bailouts. Because if the big three disappear, and Toyota doesn’t have the UAW luking in the background, the wages and benefits of every auto plant in the US will drop.

By: backman

backman — Sun, 07 Dec 2008 18:55:35 +0000

The car manufacturers were forced to go before Congress to plead their case. None of the banks have been forced to run that gauntlet of public disclosure, though it’s inarguable that they’re far more responsible–and far more expensive to save–than Detroit. Citibank wouldn’t have gotten a nickel had they sat in front of the cameras crying for money…or at least they wouldn’t have gotten anything before their shareholders and bond holders were wiped out.

It’s unsettling to read and hear the reflexive hostility that many Americans have towards workers who are doing well. It’s strange when you think about it. If we only had more workers who were ‘overpaid’, and bankers who are ‘underpaid’, I suspect we would be looking at an entirely different landscape right now.

By: KJ Foehr

KJ Foehr — Sun, 07 Dec 2008 18:51:59 +0000

Congress loves to pick on CEOs, especially when they come-a-begging. But when the Treasury Secretary asks citing a potential collapse of the ENTIRE economy, it is harder to play politics, although the Republicans did try a little, with rather serious consequences in the equity market.

The not-so-big-anymore 3 will be bailed out, I believe. Although eventually allowing one (Chrysler?) to be sacrificed is still a definite possibility in my mind.

By: mudpuppy

mudpuppy — Sun, 07 Dec 2008 18:37:15 +0000

All the auto companies, both oreign and domestic make large ga s guzzling SUVs because that is where the money is. Nobody makes money on cars.
The foreign auto companies do not have to go to the US for money because their own governments will take care of them. The Japanese government has been manipulating its currency for years. Try to ship cars into Japan or Korea or China. Free trade? What a joke. It’s more like structured destruction of US jobs.

By: Greg0658

Greg0658 — Sun, 07 Dec 2008 17:09:11 +0000

Is it my job – I think not – but are not the Hummers being used in Iraq built by GM? Were we not told to buy them (along with other SUVs) for a tax credit?

This country (world) is so disfunctional via this game of catch ya cash.

By: Greg0658

Greg0658 — Sun, 07 Dec 2008 17:02:26 +0000

I woke up watching Cspan yesterday following a replay of the House of Rep AutoBailout hearing – and it went into the call in show from Ds Rs and Is. A laidoff construction worker called in and told a story of 2 houses across the street with 12 and 10 boarders in them. They are working on some project in SCarolina.

I wanted to add an additional factoid (tough to get thru – gave up trying long ago – needs a liveblog / maybe there is)…
from the Systems point of view (in short terms) the neighborhood has 2 more houses rented out, but a long standing contributor to the community is being strained. I’ll bet they are transported via company van. They probably are shipping 2/3rd paycheck to Mexico. No children in the schools (a plus ie not driving up class size). The list goes on – both pos and neg depending on point of view.

I have also seen this on some construction projects being built. Abroad workers staying in motel rooms. Another kickback for cross related mega corporations directly or thru stock markets.

I’m afraid of this game the kids are learning to play.

By: VoiceFromTheWilderness

VoiceFromTheWilderness — Sun, 07 Dec 2008 16:43:34 +0000

In general i f one is going to look at why washington does something, looking at nebulous notions like competence, or ‘ideology’ guarantess a continued inability to understand why the government does what it does. There are three reasons why people in washington do what they do: self-interest, self-interest, and self-interest.

If one’s claim to analyzing washington doesn’t involve likely voting results, or payments from lobbyists one hasn’t dealt with any self-interest issues. Very, very few in congress vote based on any notion of ideology. Actually another one of the most hilarious things about the recent Republican rise is their sudden invocation of the term ‘ideology’. Their only ideology is winning power — economic first, political second — but somehow they never quite mention that ideology. All their other ‘ideological’ positions are con-games for rubes designed to further their real goals.

By: Greg0658

Greg0658 — Sun, 07 Dec 2008 16:40:56 +0000

Our Wal*Mart Supersized with more than a 50% sales tax reinvestment to construct the plot.

It not my job to investigate why the foreign manufactures are winning this game. Maybe its advertising. Maybe its legacy costs. Maybe its a wealthy paper pusher class buying thier kickback books.

I’m one of those that is feeling the American game play is not Christian based but Ballfield based. That is a VERY dangerous thought coming.
I’m starting to come around to that thought pattern of buy buy buy on credit, use the system to the maxout then file for bankruptcy to jump a couple steps forward … hanging onto what is allowed. It seems to be the game play that is sanctioned … because in actuallity it forces Jubilee.

How can a small startup compete with embedded superpowers. Compete? Hell – starting up is a boost to the superpowers. It is beginning to seem the only logical play is signup at a superpower.

Round and round.
Because in actuallity it forces Jubilee.
Why not a new system in the 21st Century. We’re not pig and sheep herders anymore.