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	<title>Comments on: Bust, Bankruptcy, Bailouts: What Should We Do Now?</title>
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	<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/01/bust-bankruptcy-bailouts-what-should-we-do-now-2/</link>
	<description>Macro Perspective on the Capital Markets, Economy, Geopolitics, Technology, and Digital Media</description>
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		<title>By: Chris Whalen</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/01/bust-bankruptcy-bailouts-what-should-we-do-now-2/comment-page-1/#comment-145096</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Whalen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Feb 2009 21:10:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=17578#comment-145096</guid>
		<description>To KidDyno, I am confused too on FVA.  What I know is that the bubble had to be burst and the FVA rule has certainly done that.  What I wonder about is whether imposing FVA on anything but broker-dealers makes business sense.  I know it makes no sense for hold to maturity investors.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To KidDyno, I am confused too on FVA.  What I know is that the bubble had to be burst and the FVA rule has certainly done that.  What I wonder about is whether imposing FVA on anything but broker-dealers makes business sense.  I know it makes no sense for hold to maturity investors.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Whalen</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/01/bust-bankruptcy-bailouts-what-should-we-do-now-2/comment-page-1/#comment-143322</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Whalen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Feb 2009 21:14:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=17578#comment-143322</guid>
		<description>First, to truthteller, I am not profligate.  Nor do I think much of the suggestion that a bubble equals profligacy.  There is a certain amount of vigorish necessary in any free society (ie. one third of economy is underground in Italy) or else we would opt out.  Me and Barry would definitely be shopping for a new venue.  

When stupidity or duplicity or both ruin that for all of our citizens, then we&#039;&#039;ve failed to pass along the bubble in a good sense.  Fractional reserve banking and fiat money fall into the same bucket if you take the issue to an extreme. 

Yes, please let me say in ALL CAPS THAT FAIR VALUE ACCOUNTING IS NOT THE PROBLEM. I think that FVA was a reasonable response by the audit industry/sec to an increasingly opaque OTC market structure.  That said, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.  

By allowing the audit profession to implement an ideal solution in FAS 157, we must deal with the consequences of that in literally writing down trillions of dollars in capital.  Thus leverage must come down, credit availability, etc.  

Does that not equal global public deflation??  Leveraged by CDS and broadcast on CNBC.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First, to truthteller, I am not profligate.  Nor do I think much of the suggestion that a bubble equals profligacy.  There is a certain amount of vigorish necessary in any free society (ie. one third of economy is underground in Italy) or else we would opt out.  Me and Barry would definitely be shopping for a new venue.  </p>
<p>When stupidity or duplicity or both ruin that for all of our citizens, then we&#8221;ve failed to pass along the bubble in a good sense.  Fractional reserve banking and fiat money fall into the same bucket if you take the issue to an extreme. </p>
<p>Yes, please let me say in ALL CAPS THAT FAIR VALUE ACCOUNTING IS NOT THE PROBLEM. I think that FVA was a reasonable response by the audit industry/sec to an increasingly opaque OTC market structure.  That said, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.  </p>
<p>By allowing the audit profession to implement an ideal solution in FAS 157, we must deal with the consequences of that in literally writing down trillions of dollars in capital.  Thus leverage must come down, credit availability, etc.  </p>
<p>Does that not equal global public deflation??  Leveraged by CDS and broadcast on CNBC.</p>
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		<title>By: WaltFrench</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/01/bust-bankruptcy-bailouts-what-should-we-do-now-2/comment-page-1/#comment-143143</link>
		<dc:creator>WaltFrench</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Feb 2009 18:43:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=17578#comment-143143</guid>
		<description>Another point about the corrosive effects of corporate secrecy, manufacturing earnings while putting nothing on the balance sheets: who benefits from all the SIVs? Only those who would bilk shareholders by generating bonuses while the Board of Directors blithely nods &amp; smiles.

Just like the Options Accounting scandal -- it took over a decade to overcome self-interested CEOs&#039; and handmaiden Congress-critters&#039; resistance -- the response to Enron was actually to create a sanctioned fig leaf to hide pudenda  such as the $49 billion dollars that magically appeared on Citi&#039;s books -- one day: no big deal, no need to account for it; the next: well, I guess we have a problem. 

If IRA wants to stand up for investors&#039; ability to make smart choices in financial investments, the beacon of clarity ought to be the most important. Arguably, without the obfuscation of gamesmanship in FASB 155, muddle-headed regulation of AIG and laissez-faire &quot;regulation&quot; by the Fed, we could have avoided much or all of the excesses that originated in our wanton expansion of debt.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another point about the corrosive effects of corporate secrecy, manufacturing earnings while putting nothing on the balance sheets: who benefits from all the SIVs? Only those who would bilk shareholders by generating bonuses while the Board of Directors blithely nods &amp; smiles.</p>
<p>Just like the Options Accounting scandal &#8212; it took over a decade to overcome self-interested CEOs&#8217; and handmaiden Congress-critters&#8217; resistance &#8212; the response to Enron was actually to create a sanctioned fig leaf to hide pudenda  such as the $49 billion dollars that magically appeared on Citi&#8217;s books &#8212; one day: no big deal, no need to account for it; the next: well, I guess we have a problem. </p>
<p>If IRA wants to stand up for investors&#8217; ability to make smart choices in financial investments, the beacon of clarity ought to be the most important. Arguably, without the obfuscation of gamesmanship in FASB 155, muddle-headed regulation of AIG and laissez-faire &#8220;regulation&#8221; by the Fed, we could have avoided much or all of the excesses that originated in our wanton expansion of debt.</p>
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		<title>By: dunnage</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/01/bust-bankruptcy-bailouts-what-should-we-do-now-2/comment-page-1/#comment-142933</link>
		<dc:creator>dunnage</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Jan 2009 03:39:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=17578#comment-142933</guid>
		<description>Point 1.  JPM, C, WFC, and BAC get turned over to the FDIC to be flushed, we have a chance.  Otherwise, there is really no reason for the other points.

Point 3.  As long as &quot;short term fair value of assets&quot; is disclosed,  adjustments in regulations may be prove useful ------ Only if Point 1 is occurring.

Point 4.  An actual stimulus wouldn&#039;t hurt, but apparently there is no plan for a serious &quot;real&quot; stimulus.
A bunch of projects don&#039;t bother me,  just don&#039;t call them an immediate stimulus.  Hell, give a billion dollars to every homeless person.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Point 1.  JPM, C, WFC, and BAC get turned over to the FDIC to be flushed, we have a chance.  Otherwise, there is really no reason for the other points.</p>
<p>Point 3.  As long as &#8220;short term fair value of assets&#8221; is disclosed,  adjustments in regulations may be prove useful &#8212;&#8212; Only if Point 1 is occurring.</p>
<p>Point 4.  An actual stimulus wouldn&#8217;t hurt, but apparently there is no plan for a serious &#8220;real&#8221; stimulus.<br />
A bunch of projects don&#8217;t bother me,  just don&#8217;t call them an immediate stimulus.  Hell, give a billion dollars to every homeless person.</p>
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		<title>By: David Merkel</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/01/bust-bankruptcy-bailouts-what-should-we-do-now-2/comment-page-1/#comment-142855</link>
		<dc:creator>David Merkel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jan 2009 21:00:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=17578#comment-142855</guid>
		<description>Chris Whalen is away from the web, buy e-mailed me, and asked me to post this:

&quot;I agree.  Bad market structure choices are the problem.  Indeed, you could say that FVA was a response to OTC. Please post my reply. Not near PC.&quot;

Thanks, Chris.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris Whalen is away from the web, buy e-mailed me, and asked me to post this:</p>
<p>&#8220;I agree.  Bad market structure choices are the problem.  Indeed, you could say that FVA was a response to OTC. Please post my reply. Not near PC.&#8221;</p>
<p>Thanks, Chris.</p>
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		<title>By: David Merkel</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/01/bust-bankruptcy-bailouts-what-should-we-do-now-2/comment-page-1/#comment-142838</link>
		<dc:creator>David Merkel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jan 2009 20:18:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=17578#comment-142838</guid>
		<description>Chris, it&#039;s not the FVA, it is the volatile assets that it would not be proper to leave at book.  If an asset is as volatile as an equity, it should be booked at market like other equities.

FVA isn&#039;t perfect, but it is better than the alternatives.  Remember, no accounting method can alter the underlying cash flows of the instruments.  Those cash flows are the real problem.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris, it&#8217;s not the FVA, it is the volatile assets that it would not be proper to leave at book.  If an asset is as volatile as an equity, it should be booked at market like other equities.</p>
<p>FVA isn&#8217;t perfect, but it is better than the alternatives.  Remember, no accounting method can alter the underlying cash flows of the instruments.  Those cash flows are the real problem.</p>
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		<title>By: Moss</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/01/bust-bankruptcy-bailouts-what-should-we-do-now-2/comment-page-1/#comment-142796</link>
		<dc:creator>Moss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jan 2009 18:18:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=17578#comment-142796</guid>
		<description>One key point that is missing is that the perpetrators MUST take some personal responsibility for creating the situation. The only person who has even come close is Jamie Dimon.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One key point that is missing is that the perpetrators MUST take some personal responsibility for creating the situation. The only person who has even come close is Jamie Dimon.</p>
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		<title>By: mkkby</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/01/bust-bankruptcy-bailouts-what-should-we-do-now-2/comment-page-1/#comment-142789</link>
		<dc:creator>mkkby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jan 2009 17:39:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=17578#comment-142789</guid>
		<description>Chris, this all can be summed up in one word -- &quot;transparency&quot;.  Nobody knows what&#039;s on the balance sheets of banks or any other public company.  Investors can&#039;t invest because it&#039;s all a black hole.  Fix that (adding in public markets for derivatives) and everything falls into place.  

No more throwing money down a drain and wondering how deep the hole is. No more blind speculation.  Investment would be based on real numbers, instead of PR releases and footnotes.

I would sum up by saying you are long winded and missing the point.  I assume everyone involved purposely misses the point, because transparency would prevent capitalists from bilking the rest of us.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris, this all can be summed up in one word &#8212; &#8220;transparency&#8221;.  Nobody knows what&#8217;s on the balance sheets of banks or any other public company.  Investors can&#8217;t invest because it&#8217;s all a black hole.  Fix that (adding in public markets for derivatives) and everything falls into place.  </p>
<p>No more throwing money down a drain and wondering how deep the hole is. No more blind speculation.  Investment would be based on real numbers, instead of PR releases and footnotes.</p>
<p>I would sum up by saying you are long winded and missing the point.  I assume everyone involved purposely misses the point, because transparency would prevent capitalists from bilking the rest of us.</p>
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		<title>By: usphoenix</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/01/bust-bankruptcy-bailouts-what-should-we-do-now-2/comment-page-1/#comment-142782</link>
		<dc:creator>usphoenix</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jan 2009 17:08:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=17578#comment-142782</guid>
		<description>Bravo Chris.  Agree.  IF this is so clear, why is Washington playing the fool?  Citizen&#039;s are beside themselves with anger over the mess being made worse, and yet Nero is still fiddling.  Is it arrogance, stupidity, an epidemic of Blago-brain?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bravo Chris.  Agree.  IF this is so clear, why is Washington playing the fool?  Citizen&#8217;s are beside themselves with anger over the mess being made worse, and yet Nero is still fiddling.  Is it arrogance, stupidity, an epidemic of Blago-brain?</p>
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		<title>By: Thisson</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/01/bust-bankruptcy-bailouts-what-should-we-do-now-2/comment-page-1/#comment-142771</link>
		<dc:creator>Thisson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jan 2009 16:43:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=17578#comment-142771</guid>
		<description>Truthteller,

Let&#039;s not forget that Pelosi was holding talks last year about ways to tax 401ks:

http://www.workforce.com/section/00/article/25/83/58.php</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Truthteller,</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s not forget that Pelosi was holding talks last year about ways to tax 401ks:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.workforce.com/section/00/article/25/83/58.php" rel="nofollow">http://www.workforce.com/section/00/article/25/83/58.php</a></p>
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