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	<title>Comments on: Golden Parachute</title>
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	<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/02/golden-parachute/</link>
	<description>Macro Perspective on the Capital Markets, Economy, Geopolitics, Technology, and Digital Media</description>
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		<title>By: Steve Barry</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/02/golden-parachute/comment-page-2/#comment-149026</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Barry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Feb 2009 13:42:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=20353#comment-149026</guid>
		<description>Barry said &quot;Markets dont go to zero

They panic enough primates to sell it reaches the point that the non-monkeys come in and buy stuff cheap.&quot;

Funny you should say that, beacuse I have pondered it myself. While I don&#039;t think the S&amp;P will actually go to zero, why couldn&#039;t it approach ridiculously low levels of valuation and many component stocks go to zero if they have zero value? Stocks are called equities, as they represent equity in firms...like the equity in your home. Just as homes can be underwater and have negative equity, stocks can have negative equity and eventually, markets realize this and the stock trades to zero (Enron, WorldCom, Lehman, etc). They never go negative, though they likely at that point have negative equity. Assets equal liabilities plus equity...the financial companies are proving to be such a black hole that for all intents and purposes the S&amp;P is heading toward zero...where it does finally bounce, I wish I kew. I would have to know what is hidden on every balance sheet and what is hidden in the Cayman Islands, and what other ponzi&#039;s are out there...there is no way of knowing that...the SEC has ensured we do not have access to all the correct data.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Barry said &#8220;Markets dont go to zero</p>
<p>They panic enough primates to sell it reaches the point that the non-monkeys come in and buy stuff cheap.&#8221;</p>
<p>Funny you should say that, beacuse I have pondered it myself. While I don&#8217;t think the S&amp;P will actually go to zero, why couldn&#8217;t it approach ridiculously low levels of valuation and many component stocks go to zero if they have zero value? Stocks are called equities, as they represent equity in firms&#8230;like the equity in your home. Just as homes can be underwater and have negative equity, stocks can have negative equity and eventually, markets realize this and the stock trades to zero (Enron, WorldCom, Lehman, etc). They never go negative, though they likely at that point have negative equity. Assets equal liabilities plus equity&#8230;the financial companies are proving to be such a black hole that for all intents and purposes the S&amp;P is heading toward zero&#8230;where it does finally bounce, I wish I kew. I would have to know what is hidden on every balance sheet and what is hidden in the Cayman Islands, and what other ponzi&#8217;s are out there&#8230;there is no way of knowing that&#8230;the SEC has ensured we do not have access to all the correct data.</p>
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		<title>By: DC</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/02/golden-parachute/comment-page-2/#comment-149025</link>
		<dc:creator>DC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Feb 2009 13:36:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=20353#comment-149025</guid>
		<description>In case anyone wants documentation regarding Cramer&#039;s prior enthusiastic support for Dems, here&#039;s one:

http://www.newsmeat.com/media_political_donations/Jim_Cramer.php

And this is just out of pocket...doesn&#039;t cover donations (unreimbursed of course, because that would be illegal) that he might have encouraged from staff, family, traders, etc.

Where did the love go? Well, he does have a tendency to change his mind...sometimes within the same sentence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In case anyone wants documentation regarding Cramer&#8217;s prior enthusiastic support for Dems, here&#8217;s one:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.newsmeat.com/media_political_donations/Jim_Cramer.php" rel="nofollow">http://www.newsmeat.com/media_political_donations/Jim_Cramer.php</a></p>
<p>And this is just out of pocket&#8230;doesn&#8217;t cover donations (unreimbursed of course, because that would be illegal) that he might have encouraged from staff, family, traders, etc.</p>
<p>Where did the love go? Well, he does have a tendency to change his mind&#8230;sometimes within the same sentence.</p>
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		<title>By: AndrewShaw</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/02/golden-parachute/comment-page-2/#comment-149022</link>
		<dc:creator>AndrewShaw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Feb 2009 13:26:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=20353#comment-149022</guid>
		<description>Kudlow, Norquist, M Lee, &quot;a lefty&quot; Matt Miller, others

http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=1047962861&amp;play=1     10:28


Cant find the follow-up return of Larry, what a clown</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kudlow, Norquist, M Lee, &#8220;a lefty&#8221; Matt Miller, others</p>
<p><a href="http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=1047962861&#038;play=1" rel="nofollow">http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=1047962861&#038;play=1</a>     10:28</p>
<p>Cant find the follow-up return of Larry, what a clown</p>
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		<title>By: The Woodsman</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/02/golden-parachute/comment-page-2/#comment-149021</link>
		<dc:creator>The Woodsman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Feb 2009 13:25:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=20353#comment-149021</guid>
		<description>Barry, I&#039;m not panicked, although if I was fully invested, that may be closer to case. Monday will be interesting as people will be reading the paper and watching the news closely this weekend. There may be lots of people calling their brokerage and mutual fund companies this week to get get them out. Thanks to you and others here I got out with only a modest haircut. As Andy Taboo has pointed out we may be near a tradable bottom, but not The bottom. I know markets do not go to zero, but what is happening now is something most living have never experienced.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Barry, I&#8217;m not panicked, although if I was fully invested, that may be closer to case. Monday will be interesting as people will be reading the paper and watching the news closely this weekend. There may be lots of people calling their brokerage and mutual fund companies this week to get get them out. Thanks to you and others here I got out with only a modest haircut. As Andy Taboo has pointed out we may be near a tradable bottom, but not The bottom. I know markets do not go to zero, but what is happening now is something most living have never experienced.</p>
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		<title>By: Bruce in Tn</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/02/golden-parachute/comment-page-2/#comment-149020</link>
		<dc:creator>Bruce in Tn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Feb 2009 13:20:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=20353#comment-149020</guid>
		<description>http://www.quote.com/news/story.action?id=ZAX059f9034

GDP = Going Downhill Precipitously
Saturday February 28, 2009 07:10:11 EST
Feb 28, 2009 (Zacks Investment Research)

&quot; Surprisingly, most of this drag came from lower spending on food, which subtracted 1.53 points following a 0.75 point drag in the 3rd quarter. You know things are tough when the fall in spending on food has almost as much of a negative impact on the economy as spending on autos.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.quote.com/news/story.action?id=ZAX059f9034" rel="nofollow">http://www.quote.com/news/story.action?id=ZAX059f9034</a></p>
<p>GDP = Going Downhill Precipitously<br />
Saturday February 28, 2009 07:10:11 EST<br />
Feb 28, 2009 (Zacks Investment Research)</p>
<p>&#8221; Surprisingly, most of this drag came from lower spending on food, which subtracted 1.53 points following a 0.75 point drag in the 3rd quarter. You know things are tough when the fall in spending on food has almost as much of a negative impact on the economy as spending on autos.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Marcus Aurelius</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/02/golden-parachute/comment-page-2/#comment-149018</link>
		<dc:creator>Marcus Aurelius</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Feb 2009 12:59:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=20353#comment-149018</guid>
		<description>Interesting take by some here on the fledgling Obama administration (OTOH, if you DO study FDR, as  Justin suggests, you will notice the great negativity regarding his Presidency is concentrated among recent, right-leaning, non-historians - his contemporaries kept electing him). Of course, Obama will be pilloried either way - if he continues past policy, or makes a clean break with  it. This was one of the things we knew we knew - as  D. Rumsfeld would say - prior to his election.

Obama is trying to remain centrist - to appease the right - and in doing so will sow the seeds of his own failure. I agree that Geitner is a terrible choice to head Treasury, but so would have been anyone else I&#039;ve ever heard of. The Captains of Business and Government are who steered us here - can you imagine the uproar that would have ensued had he chosen Roubini or Ritholtz?

Honestly - who among us would support or condone the radical overhaul of our government and economy by this man? Heads, he loses - tails, he loses.

In the end, we have made our own bed. We elected men not interested in supporting the middle class (created, in the largest part, by FDR, BTW), and who assured us that we would be well served by the greed of and our subserviance to those who wear the golden parachutes. We allowed our Constitution to be weakened incrementally, all the while being assured that it was &quot;quaint&quot; and no longer applicable to, or essential for, our pre-ordained, manifest greatness.

There is a chart currently posted around the internets tubs, which clearly illustrates the growth of deficit spending under Republican administrations and shrinking of that spending under Democratic administrations, yet the great &quot;truth&quot; that had been foisted on the common man is that the opposite is certainly true.

As your thirst for economic relief grows to the point of being intolerable, remember that it was the men you invited to the party who drank all of the punch, and who then relieved themselves in the community drinking well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting take by some here on the fledgling Obama administration (OTOH, if you DO study FDR, as  Justin suggests, you will notice the great negativity regarding his Presidency is concentrated among recent, right-leaning, non-historians &#8211; his contemporaries kept electing him). Of course, Obama will be pilloried either way &#8211; if he continues past policy, or makes a clean break with  it. This was one of the things we knew we knew &#8211; as  D. Rumsfeld would say &#8211; prior to his election.</p>
<p>Obama is trying to remain centrist &#8211; to appease the right &#8211; and in doing so will sow the seeds of his own failure. I agree that Geitner is a terrible choice to head Treasury, but so would have been anyone else I&#8217;ve ever heard of. The Captains of Business and Government are who steered us here &#8211; can you imagine the uproar that would have ensued had he chosen Roubini or Ritholtz?</p>
<p>Honestly &#8211; who among us would support or condone the radical overhaul of our government and economy by this man? Heads, he loses &#8211; tails, he loses.</p>
<p>In the end, we have made our own bed. We elected men not interested in supporting the middle class (created, in the largest part, by FDR, BTW), and who assured us that we would be well served by the greed of and our subserviance to those who wear the golden parachutes. We allowed our Constitution to be weakened incrementally, all the while being assured that it was &#8220;quaint&#8221; and no longer applicable to, or essential for, our pre-ordained, manifest greatness.</p>
<p>There is a chart currently posted around the internets tubs, which clearly illustrates the growth of deficit spending under Republican administrations and shrinking of that spending under Democratic administrations, yet the great &#8220;truth&#8221; that had been foisted on the common man is that the opposite is certainly true.</p>
<p>As your thirst for economic relief grows to the point of being intolerable, remember that it was the men you invited to the party who drank all of the punch, and who then relieved themselves in the community drinking well.</p>
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		<title>By: Bruce in Tn</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/02/golden-parachute/comment-page-2/#comment-149017</link>
		<dc:creator>Bruce in Tn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Feb 2009 12:57:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=20353#comment-149017</guid>
		<description>I very much enjoyed some of the comments earlier in this thread...but part of what gets our goat here is what people who came before us already learned..&quot;Don&#039;t throw good money after bad&quot;  &quot;It&#039;s a rathole&quot;
&quot;Fool me once, shame on you....&quot;  All of these old adages are general wisdom we see from our forefathers who  have lost their minds, too, whether it was tulips, Florida land, Tokyo real estate, and so on...this looks like a neverending story:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/28/business/28citi.html?_r=1&amp;ref=business

Latest Citigroup Rescue May Not Be Its Last 

When we have the Japanese Zombie model to go by, then our own supposedly rational government is now writing the manual on how to build a Zombie, it gets frustrating to those of us who have to suffer the governmental idiocy time after time.  But also frustrating is the &quot;two-fer&quot; aspect of this...that if this doesn&#039;t work, in addition, we get onerous debt that will cripple our future as we try to pay it off...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I very much enjoyed some of the comments earlier in this thread&#8230;but part of what gets our goat here is what people who came before us already learned..&#8221;Don&#8217;t throw good money after bad&#8221;  &#8220;It&#8217;s a rathole&#8221;<br />
&#8220;Fool me once, shame on you&#8230;.&#8221;  All of these old adages are general wisdom we see from our forefathers who  have lost their minds, too, whether it was tulips, Florida land, Tokyo real estate, and so on&#8230;this looks like a neverending story:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/28/business/28citi.html?_r=1&#038;ref=business" rel="nofollow">http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/28/business/28citi.html?_r=1&#038;ref=business</a></p>
<p>Latest Citigroup Rescue May Not Be Its Last </p>
<p>When we have the Japanese Zombie model to go by, then our own supposedly rational government is now writing the manual on how to build a Zombie, it gets frustrating to those of us who have to suffer the governmental idiocy time after time.  But also frustrating is the &#8220;two-fer&#8221; aspect of this&#8230;that if this doesn&#8217;t work, in addition, we get onerous debt that will cripple our future as we try to pay it off&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Bruce in Tn</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/02/golden-parachute/comment-page-2/#comment-149016</link>
		<dc:creator>Bruce in Tn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Feb 2009 12:38:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=20353#comment-149016</guid>
		<description>Barry,

There is always hope:

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/Overall-market-remains-above-November/story.aspx?guid=%7B53B4E4AF%2DDE56%2D44E2%2DADEB%2D4EB55EEC7697%7D

 MARK &quot;NO TOES&quot;  HULBERT
The bullish case</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Barry,</p>
<p>There is always hope:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/Overall-market-remains-above-November/story.aspx?guid=%7B53B4E4AF%2DDE56%2D44E2%2DADEB%2D4EB55EEC7697%7D" rel="nofollow">http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/Overall-market-remains-above-November/story.aspx?guid=%7B53B4E4AF%2DDE56%2D44E2%2DADEB%2D4EB55EEC7697%7D</a></p>
<p> MARK &#8220;NO TOES&#8221;  HULBERT<br />
The bullish case</p>
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		<title>By: Barry Ritholtz</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/02/golden-parachute/comment-page-2/#comment-149015</link>
		<dc:creator>Barry Ritholtz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Feb 2009 12:16:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=20353#comment-149015</guid>
		<description>Markets dont go to zero

They panic enough primates to sell it reaches the point that the non-monkeys come in and buy stuff cheap. 

And that is always a key trading question -- are you a panicked monkey or not?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Markets dont go to zero</p>
<p>They panic enough primates to sell it reaches the point that the non-monkeys come in and buy stuff cheap. </p>
<p>And that is always a key trading question &#8212; are you a panicked monkey or not?</p>
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		<title>By: The Woodsman</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/02/golden-parachute/comment-page-1/#comment-149014</link>
		<dc:creator>The Woodsman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Feb 2009 11:15:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=20353#comment-149014</guid>
		<description>Do any of you think Monday is a repeat of October 19th 1987? 1000-1500 points down. I&#039;m thinking this market will only bottom at zero. Really sad state of affairs, you&#039;re all welcome to our mountain hideout if this gets ugly. Bring your own gun and ammo. Cheers it&#039;s the weekend and Mondays days away.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do any of you think Monday is a repeat of October 19th 1987? 1000-1500 points down. I&#8217;m thinking this market will only bottom at zero. Really sad state of affairs, you&#8217;re all welcome to our mountain hideout if this gets ugly. Bring your own gun and ammo. Cheers it&#8217;s the weekend and Mondays days away.</p>
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