via the UK Telegraph

Category: Bailouts, Corporate Management, Credit, Federal Reserve, Politics

Please use the comments to demonstrate your own ignorance, unfamiliarity with empirical data and lack of respect for scientific knowledge. Be sure to create straw men and argue against things I have neither said nor implied. If you could repeat previously discredited memes or steer the conversation into irrelevant, off topic discussions, it would be appreciated. Lastly, kindly forgo all civility in your discourse . . . you are, after all, anonymous.

17 Responses to “UK: Banks Effectively Government Owned”

  1. buzzp says:

    While Alex appears in the Telegraph, his home is his own website – not to forget the stage show (finished its tour last year)….

  2. AGG says:

    Of Course.
    The bankers are the people that up and coming, ambitious politicians talk to to get “financing” for their pacs. The Quid Pro Cuo is made legal by the politicians who become “lawmakers”. The money for the bankers comes from taxes and money laundering. The regulatory agencies get blind when dealing with banks. It’s corruption that makes third world gangsters look like boy scouts. The real problem the banksters have is that common people like me no longer trust banks. All the corrupt politicians in the world won’t save them.

  3. Pat G. says:

    “UK: Banks Effectively Government Owned”

    Thanks to that 55 minute SEC meeting in 2005 our banks are effectively government owned too. I will keep buying anything except stocks, bonds and the dollar. Hogan’s bottom was reamed today. Hope he had some Vaseline handy.

  4. Bruce in Tn says:

    http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/Credit-crunch-may-only-have/story.aspx?guid=%7B4F0DA616%2DA789%2D49A7%2D9EFE%2DA65C5A0986F9%7D

    Credit crunch may only have just begun, S&P warns

    Got in after having the day off. Stupidly watched what CNBC calls the important news of the week. Frankly it was just a rehash of the fact that the banks got weaker, that there is no transparency, and a discussion of the stock market statistics of this week. I don’t usually get to see this, but the important things that actually affected the economy weren’t even mentioned. IMO the continuing rapid rise in initial claims, the massive disappointments of the Japanese and Asian Tiger economies, the rapid weakness now evident in Brazil, the continued Russian implosion, and the effect of the eastern European implosion on the rest of democratic Europe and its banking system.

    Truly you have to blog to hear opinions that make you think a minute or two…thought you might find this opinion from S&P worth thinking about tonight.

    I did note that Cabelas beat, and this was mentioned I think on Fast Money as due to guns and ammo…I went to sign for the carry permit that my wife wants this afternoon. There were more carry permits issued than drivers’ licenses…I was truly amazed…really.

  5. Bruce in Tn says:

    I will continue to look for the real effects of protectionism as it does or does not materialize…but here is more of the early rhetoric…from China.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29223148/

    China warns protectionism will hurt recovery
    Government critical of ‘buy local’ guidelines built into U.S. stimulus bill

  6. Pat G. says:

    Bruce in Tn Says: “Credit crunch may only have just begun, S&P warns”

    What credit crunch? I bought a new Sonata last month and finance companies were fighting over who could give me the best interest rate with only the rebate as the down payment. You either have good credit or you don’t. That’s of your own doing.

  7. Bruce…it’s all going to hell. The local sporting goods store put up a picture of Obama after the election with the caption “Salesman of the Year”. While I don’t blame Obama, or any one person in particular, it’s telling of the zeitgeist.

    Following the news from Asia, Central Europe, UK, US, etc., it seems to me clear that we’re about to see things very few alive today in the developed world have seen. And those that have are well into their dotage.

    The protectionism train has already left the station. Expect nativism and outright ethnic “cleansing” to follow close behind. It will be the only answer the politicians can offer once all of their other stupid ideas fail. Governments exist to serve their own purposes, even when those purposes ultimately hurt the ones they govern. It’s most sobering and dismal, but that’s human nature, and we’ve yet to overcome it. History is not over.

    Much of the narrative surrounding the election of Obama made it seem that the ultimate purpose of the United States was to arrive at a place where a black man could be president. What an incredible irony it would be if the republic Lincoln strove so hard to maintain is destroyed during the tenure of the president his sacrifices and leadership made possible. Again, though, I don’t blame Obama. He just happens to be the leader poised on the unhappy precipice of destruction. He didn’t get us here, but sadly enough, neither can he save us.

    I’m looking at a copy of the Homeowner Affordability and Stability Plan as released by the White House a couple of days ago. It is a perfect example of the danger this republic now faces. Once we forsake the idea that the responsibility that comes with freedom resides at the individual, rather than the collective level, then the dream is dead. Our forebears fled the stultifying statism of Europe to live as free men, governing themselves, responsible for their own welfare. In our rush to embrace collective solutions for individual problems, we are well into the process of throwing all of that away.

    That’s my rant for this Friday evening. Cheers to all.

  8. lalaland says:

    Seems to me the best argument for nationalization is that the banks are actively hurting consumers now, raising the rates on their credit cards (even people who have always made timely payments). At a time when the fed funds rate is zero they are strengthening their balance sheets by fleecing whomever they can – while receiving taxpayer funds. That just doesn’t make sense.

    Another thing that irks me is the banks sitting on their hands, waiting for government action one way or another… these guys seem to get plenty of media play when they want it, so why aren’t they making a suggestion on their own? If they can’t come up with anything better than nationalization, if they can’t figure out a way to protect their shareholders other than keep on keeping on and praying it doesn’t come to that they deserve it. They should have formulated their own plan months ago, pitched it to the public, to congress, etc. but they didn’t – they left it to the gov’t and they will have to live with whatever the administration decides to do. They certainly don’t have the right to lobby republicans to stonewall while they fiddle while rome burns….

    And to Pat G: that’s because of hyundai’s guarantee that if you lose your job they will take your car back!

  9. AGG says:

    NEW YORK (Reuters) – Renowned investor George Soros said on Friday the world financial system has effectively disintegrated, adding that there is yet no prospect of a near-term resolution to the crisis.

    Soros said the turbulence is actually more severe than during the Great Depression, comparing the current situation to the demise of the Soviet Union.

    He said the bankruptcy of Lehman Brothers in September marked a turning point in the functioning of the market system.

    “We witnessed the collapse of the financial system,” Soros said at a Columbia University dinner. “It was placed on life support, and it’s still on life support. There’s no sign that we are anywhere near a bottom.”

    His comments echoed those made earlier at the same conference by Paul Volcker, a former Federal Reserve chairman who is now a top adviser to President Barack Obama.

    Volcker said industrial production around the world was declining even more rapidly than in the United States, which is itself under severe strain.

    “I don’t remember any time, maybe even in the Great Depression, when things went down quite so fast, quite so uniformly around the world,” Volcker said.

    (Reporting by Pedro Nicolaci da Costa and Juan Lagorio; Editing by Gary Hill)

    Help those around you if you can. You may be the next to be poor and needy.

  10. The short term solutions must end because they will not work. A brand new financial system is needed. Paul Volcker was on Bloomberg today and stated as such. The Humpty Dumpty Economy: http://soyouthinkyoucaninvest.blogspot.com/2009/02/humpty-dumpty-economy.html

  11. “I’m looking at a copy of the Homeowner Affordability and Stability Plan as released by the White House a couple of days ago. It is a perfect example of the danger this republic now faces. Once we forsake the idea that the responsibility that comes with freedom resides at the individual, rather than the collective level, then the dream is dead. Our forebears fled the stultifying statism of Europe to live as free men, governing themselves, responsible for their own welfare. In our rush to embrace collective solutions for individual problems, we are well into the process of throwing all of that away.”–Curmudgeon

    Homeowner Affordability and Stability Plan

    HASP, well, and truly, on the American Experiment, so long in the Crosshairs of those who view Liberty as a threat, and Freedom as a priviledge, only for themselves to enjoy..

    http://www.thefreedictionary.com/hasp
    http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Privilege

  12. Todd says:

    Just to add some mysticism, we have a green comet in the sky’s. Green (Greenback) end of the dollar end of times.

    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,497705,00.html

    Wonder if there are any Nostradamus Quatrains for this. :)

  13. Pat G. says:

    lalaland Says: “And to Pat G: that’s because of hyundai’s guarantee that if you lose your job they will take your car back!”

    I forgot to mention…I don’t have a job and I’m not retired. I’m not interested in their Assurance plan. I bought the car because I needed it and after comparing over 65 different vehicles for over a year, it was simply the best purchase for the money. That’s what responsible people do. That’s why they’re assured that I will pay them back.

  14. Avl Dao says:

    Anyone into simulations?

    If economics was a real science, they’d have the decency to run some simulations of where their ‘postulates’ and ‘conjectures’ may deliver us (much of economics does not merit the label ‘theory’ as define by the hard sciences).
    But economics is more a branch of political science than it is a true science or a branch of mathematics.
    If you’ve read TBP, Mish, and CR, regularly for about 12 months, you can conjecture a number of scenarios ultimately ending NOT with riots & pitchforks (how Hollywood!) or massive sprawls of smelly tent cities with raggedy & disheveled men and women, possessing BAs, BSs and MBAs, waiting in lines for government cheese and apples.
    What’s more likely to crop up with great frequency, if you ran simulations, is an economic future that often resembles something akin to a dull static Britain circa 1972: stagnant, no growth, and much of its economy state run and many folks on the dole.
    The many many paths from 2009 to this likely vignette of our more likely future is hard to sketch out with timelines…and even this future will be “in motion” along its own timelines, moving towards or away some thing. Still, I wager 3 shares each of of C, G, FNMA, and AIG that multiple paths from today, 2009, may deliver us to this same future via a very powerful “basin of attraction”. That is based on a great attractor model where the basin of attraction is a result of an undeclared defacto sovereign default manifested by stingy global ‘borrowing’, government control of swaths of the economy, and job rolls that rise more than fall as we struggle to re-animate the lifeless corpse of a debt-fueled consumer-spending GDP model where manufacturing remains kicked to the curb overseas while China, Japan, and other overseas holders (suckers!) of our government and corporate debt fume for decades over the defacto sovereign default (and corporate defaults) that we spun as a “mutual-agreed-upon restructuring of obligations”.
    Again, nothing is fixed or will be fixed with regards to “our likely future”. All futures are in motion along paths or wallowing in large basins of attractions. The times spent on ridges, by our ‘probable future’ will be short for ridges, unlike basins, do not lend themselves to dwelling. More importantly, a nation of 1,000+ metros/cities in 50 states totalling 300+ million people will also feature numerous mini and regional economies that are also always in motion.

    Do you like Macintosh apples with ur chedder cheese?

    @Bruce InTN: Do Newport or Johnson City count as TN? Driving thru both soon.

  15. Bruce…it’s all going to hell. The local sporting goods store put up a picture of Obama after the election with the caption “Salesman of the Year”. While I don’t blame Obama, or any one person in particular, it’s telling of the zeitgeist.

    That’s a sign of some ignorant white people not liking that a black man was elected President.

    Sporting goods stores are … ahem … not well known for their racial sensitivity.

    Redneck white trash.

    But it does make gun sellers and makers and the NRA lots of money so they are glad to pimp the hate and the fear.

  16. lalaland says:

    eh, just a joke there. By the way I would like to thank the good folks at Geico for recognizing the fact that my 76 bonneville had, in fact, appreciated since I bought it 7 years ago (it was destroyed while parked in nyc by a ford suburban on 1/1/09 ). At least I made a profit on something in ’09…

  17. Itiswhatitis says:

    Please, the US just couldn’t win a trade war with China, we would destroy them in the process and send their civilization into crisis(for the 10000000000000 time).

    The US built up the military in a few years, it could its manufacturing just as quickly and eradicate its private/public debt by printing(which could be soaked up by higher taxes and interest rates).

    Pain is coming any way you look at it. Either through liquidation or printing. It is what we do during the pain that counts.

    “It is a perfect example of the danger this republic now faces”

    Wrong. It is a example of how the government will try and pacify the masses while the transition takes place to a new economy. While a waste of money, if you were in power, you would do the same thing. Because in the long run, it is a drop in the bucket. We have to pick the toxin to drink: liquidation or printing. The longer they jawbone over it, the longer we suffer.