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	<title>Comments on: While Rome Burns</title>
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	<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/02/while-rome-burns/</link>
	<description>Macro Perspective on the Capital Markets, Economy, Geopolitics, Technology, and Digital Media</description>
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		<title>By: ncarvin</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/02/while-rome-burns/comment-page-1/#comment-147559</link>
		<dc:creator>ncarvin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Feb 2009 01:09:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=19720#comment-147559</guid>
		<description>&quot;Athens has ordered Greek banks to pull out of the Balkans.&quot;   Huh?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Athens has ordered Greek banks to pull out of the Balkans.&#8221;   Huh?</p>
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		<title>By: Reinko</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/02/while-rome-burns/comment-page-1/#comment-147551</link>
		<dc:creator>Reinko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Feb 2009 23:37:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=19720#comment-147551</guid>
		<description>This article contains many interesting items.

I am from the Dutch landscape and here we have a bank named ING.
Total balances of ING are rather precise 3 times the Dutch gross domestic product, for the USA that would compare to a bank with balances of about 45 trillion US$.

The details from Swiss and Austria were also unknown to me until this week; ok ok these are a few trillions and indeed East European currencies got hammered hard (the main hurdle to take beside the economic slowdown over there).

But these are just a few trillion and it might be East Europe misses on some payments but we must never forget: Borrowing in numbers like these was simply needed to give them a perspective on joining the Euro. 

For me it is funny to obeserve how the international media works; enlarging a few trillion here, pointing at weak European institutions there and voila: we have a scenario that will wipe out the Euro.

That is very funny because after all the US financial sector has about 17 trillion of debt on herself, it is beyond the USA GDP and grows much faster for a long long time.

Nobody points to that big beast, always small countries and horrible scenario&#039;s are mentioned.

The Geithner thingeling refers to the big beast as &#039;legacy loans&#039; and offers a 500 billion public/private solution to that while in reality in the last year 2008 we could easily have over one trillion $ debt going toxic.

Oh oh, where are the macro economists that speak out on the big beast?

Source: 

http://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/z1/current/accessible/d3.htm 

And when will the total of OTC derivative contracts come again in the media picture?
600 trillion US$ in derivative positions and the combined contracts were about 14 trillion or, lets say, one USA gross domestic product.

For the time being the East European problems might be big but it is only a smoke screen hiding the real troubles.

That is what I had to say, live well &amp; work well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This article contains many interesting items.</p>
<p>I am from the Dutch landscape and here we have a bank named ING.<br />
Total balances of ING are rather precise 3 times the Dutch gross domestic product, for the USA that would compare to a bank with balances of about 45 trillion US$.</p>
<p>The details from Swiss and Austria were also unknown to me until this week; ok ok these are a few trillions and indeed East European currencies got hammered hard (the main hurdle to take beside the economic slowdown over there).</p>
<p>But these are just a few trillion and it might be East Europe misses on some payments but we must never forget: Borrowing in numbers like these was simply needed to give them a perspective on joining the Euro. </p>
<p>For me it is funny to obeserve how the international media works; enlarging a few trillion here, pointing at weak European institutions there and voila: we have a scenario that will wipe out the Euro.</p>
<p>That is very funny because after all the US financial sector has about 17 trillion of debt on herself, it is beyond the USA GDP and grows much faster for a long long time.</p>
<p>Nobody points to that big beast, always small countries and horrible scenario&#8217;s are mentioned.</p>
<p>The Geithner thingeling refers to the big beast as &#8216;legacy loans&#8217; and offers a 500 billion public/private solution to that while in reality in the last year 2008 we could easily have over one trillion $ debt going toxic.</p>
<p>Oh oh, where are the macro economists that speak out on the big beast?</p>
<p>Source: </p>
<p><a href="http://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/z1/current/accessible/d3.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/z1/current/accessible/d3.htm</a> </p>
<p>And when will the total of OTC derivative contracts come again in the media picture?<br />
600 trillion US$ in derivative positions and the combined contracts were about 14 trillion or, lets say, one USA gross domestic product.</p>
<p>For the time being the East European problems might be big but it is only a smoke screen hiding the real troubles.</p>
<p>That is what I had to say, live well &amp; work well.</p>
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		<title>By: captainjc</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/02/while-rome-burns/comment-page-1/#comment-147528</link>
		<dc:creator>captainjc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Feb 2009 18:59:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=19720#comment-147528</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve been engrossed in the Crestmont site for the past 4 hours. I appreciate you posting about it. Again, I&#039;m not sure I understand your assessment of the current P/E ratio though.

You say 
&quot;Look at the 20-year average returns in the table above. The higher the P/E ratio, the lower (in general) the subsequent 20-year average return. Where are we today? As I have made clear in my last two letters, we are well above 20. Today we are over 30, on our way to 45.&quot;

However, in Easterling&#039;s 12/31 update, his method says we are at 14.4 (Schiller&#039;s at 15.2 and as reported at 18.8)

Further he says:
&quot;CURRENT STATUS (Year-end 2008) 
Despite a modest recovery in the stock market since the most recent report, P/E remains 
somewhat undervalued and positioned for nearer-term above-average returns (assuming 
that the economy is not expected to enter a multi-year period of significant deflation or 
relatively high inflation).  The ‘Reported’ measure of EPS and P/E, reflecting the most 
recent four quarters, is becoming more distorted.  This is the typical distortion that occurs 
during earnings cycle troughs.  Reported P/E is expected to rise further as the distortion 
increases.  Be aware of the distinction between Reported P/E and the normalized P/Es in 
media articles and analysts reports that suggest relatively high overvaluation. &quot;

All from the last report on this page
http://www.crestmontresearch.com/content/market.htm</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve been engrossed in the Crestmont site for the past 4 hours. I appreciate you posting about it. Again, I&#8217;m not sure I understand your assessment of the current P/E ratio though.</p>
<p>You say<br />
&#8220;Look at the 20-year average returns in the table above. The higher the P/E ratio, the lower (in general) the subsequent 20-year average return. Where are we today? As I have made clear in my last two letters, we are well above 20. Today we are over 30, on our way to 45.&#8221;</p>
<p>However, in Easterling&#8217;s 12/31 update, his method says we are at 14.4 (Schiller&#8217;s at 15.2 and as reported at 18.8)</p>
<p>Further he says:<br />
&#8220;CURRENT STATUS (Year-end 2008)<br />
Despite a modest recovery in the stock market since the most recent report, P/E remains<br />
somewhat undervalued and positioned for nearer-term above-average returns (assuming<br />
that the economy is not expected to enter a multi-year period of significant deflation or<br />
relatively high inflation).  The ‘Reported’ measure of EPS and P/E, reflecting the most<br />
recent four quarters, is becoming more distorted.  This is the typical distortion that occurs<br />
during earnings cycle troughs.  Reported P/E is expected to rise further as the distortion<br />
increases.  Be aware of the distinction between Reported P/E and the normalized P/Es in<br />
media articles and analysts reports that suggest relatively high overvaluation. &#8221;</p>
<p>All from the last report on this page<br />
<a href="http://www.crestmontresearch.com/content/market.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.crestmontresearch.com/content/market.htm</a></p>
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		<title>By: captainjc</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/02/while-rome-burns/comment-page-1/#comment-147505</link>
		<dc:creator>captainjc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Feb 2009 17:41:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=19720#comment-147505</guid>
		<description>Leaving aside the Europe stuff (not that it&#039;s not very interesting as well), the stuff about secular cycles and P/E ratios really resonates with me.

I&#039;m curious how you arrive at where we are today as far as P/E. On the Crestmont site, in the Truth About P/E&#039;s article (the addendum to be specific), Ed Easterling says,

&quot;For the P/E to be valid and representative, the requirement for the denominator of the 
ratio, earnings (E), is that it reflects the base line trend for earnings. &quot;

He goes on to speak of Ibbotson, Shiller, and their own approaches and says,

&quot;Regardless of the approach used, some action is needed—especially near the peaks and troughs—to 
reduce the distortions that can lead to inaccurate conclusions. &quot;

How are you adjusting for the assumed downward trend in earnings? 

What resources are out there that you believe calculate the current P/E ratio most accurately?

Thanks,
Jeremy</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Leaving aside the Europe stuff (not that it&#8217;s not very interesting as well), the stuff about secular cycles and P/E ratios really resonates with me.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m curious how you arrive at where we are today as far as P/E. On the Crestmont site, in the Truth About P/E&#8217;s article (the addendum to be specific), Ed Easterling says,</p>
<p>&#8220;For the P/E to be valid and representative, the requirement for the denominator of the<br />
ratio, earnings (E), is that it reflects the base line trend for earnings. &#8221;</p>
<p>He goes on to speak of Ibbotson, Shiller, and their own approaches and says,</p>
<p>&#8220;Regardless of the approach used, some action is needed—especially near the peaks and troughs—to<br />
reduce the distortions that can lead to inaccurate conclusions. &#8221;</p>
<p>How are you adjusting for the assumed downward trend in earnings? </p>
<p>What resources are out there that you believe calculate the current P/E ratio most accurately?</p>
<p>Thanks,<br />
Jeremy</p>
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