Comments on: Not Nationalization, Capitalization http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/03/not-nationalization-capitalization/ Macro Perspective on the Capital Markets, Economy, Geopolitics, Technology, and Digital Media Tue, 14 Feb 2012 21:38:31 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.5 By: call me ahab http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/03/not-nationalization-capitalization/comment-page-1/#comment-153559 call me ahab Sun, 15 Mar 2009 00:01:12 +0000 http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=21537#comment-153559 test test

]]> By: zot23 http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/03/not-nationalization-capitalization/comment-page-1/#comment-153183 zot23 Fri, 13 Mar 2009 15:23:44 +0000 http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=21537#comment-153183 I don't care if they call it Bozo Buckets, just level with us, let's all take the pain, and get something that actually is stable and works in the future. I wouldn't even know what it is, but this lack of transparency (on all sides) and Congress' inability to control the purse strings without hearings/oversight is killing us all slowly. I don’t care if they call it Bozo Buckets, just level with us, let’s all take the pain, and get something that actually is stable and works in the future. I wouldn’t even know what it is, but this lack of transparency (on all sides) and Congress’ inability to control the purse strings without hearings/oversight is killing us all slowly.

]]> By: DeDude http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/03/not-nationalization-capitalization/comment-page-1/#comment-153121 DeDude Fri, 13 Mar 2009 13:15:38 +0000 http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=21537#comment-153121 Yes lets be true to the American idiocracy. It is the word not the content that is important. Like gay mmm…. unions. Yes lets be true to the American idiocracy. It is the word not the content that is important. Like gay mmm…. unions.

]]> By: Amateur http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/03/not-nationalization-capitalization/comment-page-1/#comment-152960 Amateur Thu, 12 Mar 2009 20:03:06 +0000 http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=21537#comment-152960 Bear Stearns, Citigroup, Bank of America, AIG and Merrill (and Wachovia) bailouts were each a success compared to Lehman and Washington Mutual, for example. And the latest, Citi, improves on the precedent, as it involves capital contributions from private creditors. A good thesis for the next crop of economy PHDs would be to compare the percentage of assets recovered in Bear Sterns compared to the same percentage in Lehman. An orderly rundown of large banks in trouble assisted by taxpayers capital contributions that duly dilute old shareholders is the least harmful way out of the mess, although it may be more boring and less "heroic". Nationalization fundamentalists are promoting a higher level of welfare destruction, for the sake of principles, or ideology, or morals... or for the sake of their short positions...or they really believe the damage will be smaller? Bear Stearns, Citigroup, Bank of America, AIG and Merrill (and Wachovia) bailouts were each a success compared to Lehman and Washington Mutual, for example.
And the latest, Citi, improves on the precedent, as it involves capital contributions from private creditors.

A good thesis for the next crop of economy PHDs would be to compare the percentage of assets recovered in Bear Sterns compared to the same percentage in Lehman.

An orderly rundown of large banks in trouble assisted by taxpayers capital contributions that duly dilute old shareholders is the least harmful way out of the mess, although it may be more boring and less “heroic”.
Nationalization fundamentalists are promoting a higher level of welfare destruction, for the sake of principles, or ideology, or morals… or for the sake of their short positions…or they really believe the damage will be smaller?

]]> By: johnhaskell http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/03/not-nationalization-capitalization/comment-page-1/#comment-152954 johnhaskell Thu, 12 Mar 2009 19:49:30 +0000 http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=21537#comment-152954 ha! Thanks Barry! As for the people who criticize "capitalization" because it "didn't work" with AIG, Frannie, etc., I have to counter that it's not "capitalization" if there are endless top-ups of additional taxpayer money while bondholders give up nothing. As for Rajesh above, I think GGP will be "capitalized" in the near future. ha!

Thanks Barry!

As for the people who criticize “capitalization” because it “didn’t work” with AIG, Frannie, etc., I have to counter that it’s not “capitalization” if there are endless top-ups of additional taxpayer money while bondholders give up nothing.

As for Rajesh above, I think GGP will be “capitalized” in the near future.

]]> By: formershrink http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/03/not-nationalization-capitalization/comment-page-1/#comment-152952 formershrink Thu, 12 Mar 2009 19:47:39 +0000 http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=21537#comment-152952 Very good nationalization discussion: http://brontecapital.blogspot.com/2009/03/paul-krugmans-false-logical-step.html Very good nationalization discussion:

http://brontecapital.blogspot.com/2009/03/paul-krugmans-false-logical-step.html

]]> By: Stuart http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/03/not-nationalization-capitalization/comment-page-1/#comment-152950 Stuart Thu, 12 Mar 2009 19:43:53 +0000 http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=21537#comment-152950 Case in point to my earlier point: William Isaac this afternoon. Good Lord. Case in point to my earlier point: William Isaac this afternoon. Good Lord.

]]> By: Rajesh http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/03/not-nationalization-capitalization/comment-page-1/#comment-152931 Rajesh Thu, 12 Mar 2009 18:44:27 +0000 http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=21537#comment-152931 Gee, Nationalization worked so well with AIG, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, why don't we do it with other companies in trouble, such as GM, Chrysler, New York Times, Tribune Company, Charter Communications, Level Three, General Growth Properties, UBS, RBS? Since the tax payer already has his checkbook out. Gee, Nationalization worked so well with AIG, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, why don’t we do it with other companies in trouble, such as GM, Chrysler, New York Times, Tribune Company, Charter Communications, Level Three, General Growth Properties, UBS, RBS? Since the tax payer already has his checkbook out.

]]> By: Transor Z http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/03/not-nationalization-capitalization/comment-page-1/#comment-152922 Transor Z Thu, 12 Mar 2009 18:14:34 +0000 http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=21537#comment-152922 From today's Boston Globe: quick bit on prepared remarks by Kenneth Lewis at the Boston Harbor Hotel today. http://www.boston.com/business/ticker/2009/03/lews_calls_bank.html Really hard-hitting and illuminating stuff. Barry, per Mr. Lewis is among the "misguided" critics calling for nationalization. You and your ilk are misguided because "This is one of those those theories that looks like it might work on paper." Actually though, nationalization would undermine confidence in the banking system by giving the false impression that banks are insolvent. Memo to Barry and members of the chattering classes: Insolvent is the new solvent. From today’s Boston Globe: quick bit on prepared remarks by Kenneth Lewis at the Boston Harbor Hotel today. http://www.boston.com/business/ticker/2009/03/lews_calls_bank.html

Really hard-hitting and illuminating stuff. Barry, per Mr. Lewis is among the “misguided” critics calling for nationalization. You and your ilk are misguided because “This is one of those those theories that looks like it might work on paper.” Actually though, nationalization would undermine confidence in the banking system by giving the false impression that banks are insolvent.

Memo to Barry and members of the chattering classes: Insolvent is the new solvent.

]]> By: Stuart http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/03/not-nationalization-capitalization/comment-page-1/#comment-152918 Stuart Thu, 12 Mar 2009 18:07:57 +0000 http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=21537#comment-152918 While fully recognizing that words do matter and must be carefully and thoughtfully chosen to reflect true intent of the communication, the fact that there is such a tenacious desire for so many to willfully disregard a simple assessment that if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it is a duck, irrespective of how it is worded, well then I can only surmise that they are complicit in perpetuating this fraud or have had their heads so buried up their arses that hope and desperation form the cornerstone of their investment strategy. Viewing the finance sub-committee today was along similar lines, up until the last senator spoke who liken the intent to change M2M rules to changing the value of Pi by decree, therefore making it so. No matter how much you want to change by decree, a bag of crap will never become a box of roses. While fully recognizing that words do matter and must be carefully and thoughtfully chosen to reflect true intent of the communication, the fact that there is such a tenacious desire for so many to willfully disregard a simple assessment that if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it is a duck, irrespective of how it is worded, well then I can only surmise that they are complicit in perpetuating this fraud or have had their heads so buried up their arses that hope and desperation form the cornerstone of their investment strategy.

Viewing the finance sub-committee today was along similar lines, up until the last senator spoke who liken the intent to change M2M rules to changing the value of Pi by decree, therefore making it so. No matter how much you want to change by decree, a bag of crap will never become a box of roses.

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