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	<title>Comments on: The Ratings Trap</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/03/the-ratings-trap/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/03/the-ratings-trap/</link>
	<description>Macro Perspective on the Capital Markets, Economy, Geopolitics, Technology, and Digital Media</description>
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		<title>By: Mark E Hoffer</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/03/the-ratings-trap/comment-page-1/#comment-154010</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark E Hoffer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Mar 2009 20:28:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=21847#comment-154010</guid>
		<description>Its_Science,

it was excellent article, save for the timing.  as BR points out, in the post, these problems have been known for over a decade.  The MSM should get a little credit, as watchdog, for barking, now, after the household has been stripped bare.  Actually, it&#039;s &#039;woofing&#039; at this late date should signal something else afoot--namely, in this case, the push for &quot;Global Regulation, Regulatory Bodies&quot;..
~~ 

&quot;What’s there to steal now? I’m at a loss to figure it out.&quot;--dh

see: SmartGrids, Solar Panels, Wind Farms, y mas..

LSS: namely those things that, w/o your subsidizing it, make no Financial sense, and, usually, little Economic sense..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Its_Science,</p>
<p>it was excellent article, save for the timing.  as BR points out, in the post, these problems have been known for over a decade.  The MSM should get a little credit, as watchdog, for barking, now, after the household has been stripped bare.  Actually, it&#8217;s &#8216;woofing&#8217; at this late date should signal something else afoot&#8211;namely, in this case, the push for &#8220;Global Regulation, Regulatory Bodies&#8221;..<br />
~~ </p>
<p>&#8220;What’s there to steal now? I’m at a loss to figure it out.&#8221;&#8211;dh</p>
<p>see: SmartGrids, Solar Panels, Wind Farms, y mas..</p>
<p>LSS: namely those things that, w/o your subsidizing it, make no Financial sense, and, usually, little Economic sense..</p>
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		<title>By: leftback</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/03/the-ratings-trap/comment-page-1/#comment-153961</link>
		<dc:creator>leftback</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Mar 2009 18:32:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=21847#comment-153961</guid>
		<description>This is better news. Help for small business, as well as big ones like GM, is essential to avoid huge increases in unemployment. This $15B will be better spent than the John Thain and AIG bonuses.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090316/ap_on_go_pr_wh/obama_economy

Speaking of Thain, Bernie needs a roomie at the MCC.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is better news. Help for small business, as well as big ones like GM, is essential to avoid huge increases in unemployment. This $15B will be better spent than the John Thain and AIG bonuses.</p>
<p><a href="http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090316/ap_on_go_pr_wh/obama_economy" rel="nofollow">http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090316/ap_on_go_pr_wh/obama_economy</a></p>
<p>Speaking of Thain, Bernie needs a roomie at the MCC.</p>
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		<title>By: Marcus Aurelius</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/03/the-ratings-trap/comment-page-1/#comment-153957</link>
		<dc:creator>Marcus Aurelius</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Mar 2009 18:22:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=21847#comment-153957</guid>
		<description>Ill repute doesn&#039;t lead to mystical self-regulation by the market. For example, AIG is up 81.82% right this minute, and their reputation is for shit. Everybody knows that this criminal cabal is stealing money (thus, they have created. if not earned, a reputation for themselves), yet new money keeps coming in. Crazy days.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ill repute doesn&#8217;t lead to mystical self-regulation by the market. For example, AIG is up 81.82% right this minute, and their reputation is for shit. Everybody knows that this criminal cabal is stealing money (thus, they have created. if not earned, a reputation for themselves), yet new money keeps coming in. Crazy days.</p>
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		<title>By: Its_Science</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/03/the-ratings-trap/comment-page-1/#comment-153953</link>
		<dc:creator>Its_Science</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Mar 2009 18:16:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=21847#comment-153953</guid>
		<description>This was an excellent column.  I&#039;ve been arguing for some time that while the Rating Agencies certainly acted in a corrupt manner, the real problem is the dependence of regulations on them and the government protection of them.  They could potentially provide value in some manner if only they were allowed to earn their reputation themselves.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This was an excellent column.  I&#8217;ve been arguing for some time that while the Rating Agencies certainly acted in a corrupt manner, the real problem is the dependence of regulations on them and the government protection of them.  They could potentially provide value in some manner if only they were allowed to earn their reputation themselves.</p>
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		<title>By: Marcus Aurelius</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/03/the-ratings-trap/comment-page-1/#comment-153951</link>
		<dc:creator>Marcus Aurelius</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Mar 2009 18:12:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=21847#comment-153951</guid>
		<description>HFC,

I hear you loud and clear. The problem is, lack of regulation is exactly why law enforcement can&#039;t be used against AIG (not that we have law enforcement involvement where laws DO exist prohibiting chicanery - a crime in and of itself. It&#039;s a shame this is a theoretical distinction). Like Portnoy&#039;s comment in BR&#039;s post, above, points out - there was no regulation under the new legislation.

As for libertarianism, I like the standard definition of &#039;rights&#039; - namely, one&#039;s rights end where they infringe on another&#039;s. This goes for polluting industries, pharmeceuticals, banking, manufacturers of addictive products (for profit and/or trade), misleading marketing, and any other business activity that would toxify the environment (I use &#039;enviornoment&#039; in the broadest sense). Hell, I&#039;d be all for anarchy, if I thought people had the scruples to police themselves and the morals and ethics to control their lust to get more of anything they might want. Sadly, they don&#039;t.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>HFC,</p>
<p>I hear you loud and clear. The problem is, lack of regulation is exactly why law enforcement can&#8217;t be used against AIG (not that we have law enforcement involvement where laws DO exist prohibiting chicanery &#8211; a crime in and of itself. It&#8217;s a shame this is a theoretical distinction). Like Portnoy&#8217;s comment in BR&#8217;s post, above, points out &#8211; there was no regulation under the new legislation.</p>
<p>As for libertarianism, I like the standard definition of &#8216;rights&#8217; &#8211; namely, one&#8217;s rights end where they infringe on another&#8217;s. This goes for polluting industries, pharmeceuticals, banking, manufacturers of addictive products (for profit and/or trade), misleading marketing, and any other business activity that would toxify the environment (I use &#8216;enviornoment&#8217; in the broadest sense). Hell, I&#8217;d be all for anarchy, if I thought people had the scruples to police themselves and the morals and ethics to control their lust to get more of anything they might want. Sadly, they don&#8217;t.</p>
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		<title>By: dead hobo</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/03/the-ratings-trap/comment-page-1/#comment-153947</link>
		<dc:creator>dead hobo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Mar 2009 18:06:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=21847#comment-153947</guid>
		<description>re oil prices and hype:

Let&#039;s not forget the wonderful work on CNBC by Melissa and later by Sharon in the commodity pits, where they cheerfully regurgitated the day&#039;s simple minded headline story as the The Big Reason Of The Day, adding credibility and urgency to the lies and the hype. Do they still do that?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>re oil prices and hype:</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s not forget the wonderful work on CNBC by Melissa and later by Sharon in the commodity pits, where they cheerfully regurgitated the day&#8217;s simple minded headline story as the The Big Reason Of The Day, adding credibility and urgency to the lies and the hype. Do they still do that?</p>
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		<title>By: dead hobo</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/03/the-ratings-trap/comment-page-1/#comment-153943</link>
		<dc:creator>dead hobo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Mar 2009 17:53:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=21847#comment-153943</guid>
		<description>leftback,

Yeah, using Nigeria as an excuse was solid gold in getting a price rise. All it tool was the rumor of significant flatulence in a small room with no windows and Vavooom went the world price of crude. The oldies never go away. This one will still work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>leftback,</p>
<p>Yeah, using Nigeria as an excuse was solid gold in getting a price rise. All it tool was the rumor of significant flatulence in a small room with no windows and Vavooom went the world price of crude. The oldies never go away. This one will still work.</p>
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		<title>By: leftback</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/03/the-ratings-trap/comment-page-1/#comment-153942</link>
		<dc:creator>leftback</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Mar 2009 17:50:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=21847#comment-153942</guid>
		<description>One good thing about the commodities market is there are no ratings agencies.... it&#039;s a tricky market but once you figure the dodges out you can make money quite easily. It helps that oil will be going from the lower left to the upper right, of course. Basically you have to sell the rips after USO buys, &quot;Nigerian incidents&quot; and OPEC supply cuts and buy the dips after supply builds, green energy press conferences and warm weather forecasts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One good thing about the commodities market is there are no ratings agencies&#8230;. it&#8217;s a tricky market but once you figure the dodges out you can make money quite easily. It helps that oil will be going from the lower left to the upper right, of course. Basically you have to sell the rips after USO buys, &#8220;Nigerian incidents&#8221; and OPEC supply cuts and buy the dips after supply builds, green energy press conferences and warm weather forecasts.</p>
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		<title>By: HCF</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/03/the-ratings-trap/comment-page-1/#comment-153941</link>
		<dc:creator>HCF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Mar 2009 17:47:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=21847#comment-153941</guid>
		<description>@ Marcus:
&gt; Deregulation of the banking and/or financial industries will get you ripped-off, every time.

Yes and no...  We should separate out the topics of regulation and enforcement.  Having a generally libertarian philosophy, I believe in very limited regulation, but VERY STRICT enforcement of the rules.  The problem under Greenspan, et al was the appalling lack of enforcement of existing securities laws.  You can&#039;t have a law on the books and have the regulator say, &quot;I don&#039;t really believe in that rule anyways...&quot;  It&#039;s like the situation in China: China has among the strictest copyright laws in the world, but zero enforcement.  We know how that&#039;s working out...

HCF</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Marcus:<br />
&gt; Deregulation of the banking and/or financial industries will get you ripped-off, every time.</p>
<p>Yes and no&#8230;  We should separate out the topics of regulation and enforcement.  Having a generally libertarian philosophy, I believe in very limited regulation, but VERY STRICT enforcement of the rules.  The problem under Greenspan, et al was the appalling lack of enforcement of existing securities laws.  You can&#8217;t have a law on the books and have the regulator say, &#8220;I don&#8217;t really believe in that rule anyways&#8230;&#8221;  It&#8217;s like the situation in China: China has among the strictest copyright laws in the world, but zero enforcement.  We know how that&#8217;s working out&#8230;</p>
<p>HCF</p>
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		<title>By: dead hobo</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/03/the-ratings-trap/comment-page-1/#comment-153939</link>
		<dc:creator>dead hobo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Mar 2009 17:42:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=21847#comment-153939</guid>
		<description>During the Y2K period and prior, the easiest way to steal was to start a public company that had no prospect of earning a dime, but hyping it in such a way that it looked like solid gold. Then you sold worthless stock for a lot of money. 

A second preferential way was to steal as an insider if you happened to work at the top executive levels. Enron explored the basics of derivatives fraud and fake commodity shortages. SarbOx closed  much of this way of life off and forced the thieves to find a new way to earn a living. They discovered mortgage fraud, expanded on the ways to commit commodities fraud using derivatives, and invented swaps fraud. 

Thieves are clever. 

Now, where will they migrate to. The investment world is in a lull. Not much cash is flowing, but you can be sure they will find the next big things and fleece the same people again.

Commodities fraud will reappear unless the CFTC figures out how to limit direct and indirect speculation in commodities. Investors love their bubbles, and large amounts of spare cash will once again create the appearance of peak oil to the gullible, not peak oil fraud. For other schemes, crooks will probably have to move their schemes overseas where there is less regulation. 

What&#039;s there to steal now? I&#039;m at a loss to figure it out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>During the Y2K period and prior, the easiest way to steal was to start a public company that had no prospect of earning a dime, but hyping it in such a way that it looked like solid gold. Then you sold worthless stock for a lot of money. </p>
<p>A second preferential way was to steal as an insider if you happened to work at the top executive levels. Enron explored the basics of derivatives fraud and fake commodity shortages. SarbOx closed  much of this way of life off and forced the thieves to find a new way to earn a living. They discovered mortgage fraud, expanded on the ways to commit commodities fraud using derivatives, and invented swaps fraud. </p>
<p>Thieves are clever. </p>
<p>Now, where will they migrate to. The investment world is in a lull. Not much cash is flowing, but you can be sure they will find the next big things and fleece the same people again.</p>
<p>Commodities fraud will reappear unless the CFTC figures out how to limit direct and indirect speculation in commodities. Investors love their bubbles, and large amounts of spare cash will once again create the appearance of peak oil to the gullible, not peak oil fraud. For other schemes, crooks will probably have to move their schemes overseas where there is less regulation. </p>
<p>What&#8217;s there to steal now? I&#8217;m at a loss to figure it out.</p>
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