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	<title>Comments on: How Over-Extended is FDIC Insurance ?</title>
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		<title>By: JoWriter</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/04/how-over-extended-is-fdic-insurance/comment-page-1/#comment-160265</link>
		<dc:creator>JoWriter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2009 02:59:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=23238#comment-160265</guid>
		<description>Oops - meant to take the bold off after &quot;results&quot; 

sorry</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oops &#8211; meant to take the bold off after &#8220;results&#8221; </p>
<p>sorry</p>
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		<title>By: JoWriter</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/04/how-over-extended-is-fdic-insurance/comment-page-1/#comment-160264</link>
		<dc:creator>JoWriter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2009 02:58:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=23238#comment-160264</guid>
		<description>Slightly OT, but still... from the wsj.com

Today in Bailouts and Financial Rescues 

Stress Test: Regulators plan to meet early this week  &lt;b&gt; to discuss how to analyze the results of stress tests /&lt;b&gt; being conducted on the country&#039;s 19 largest banks. [WSJ]

They are going to talk about how to do this? They didn&#039;t know before they started? My confidence ebbs daily.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Slightly OT, but still&#8230; from the wsj.com</p>
<p>Today in Bailouts and Financial Rescues </p>
<p>Stress Test: Regulators plan to meet early this week  <b> to discuss how to analyze the results of stress tests /</b><b> being conducted on the country&#8217;s 19 largest banks. [WSJ]</p>
<p>They are going to talk about how to do this? They didn&#8217;t know before they started? My confidence ebbs daily.</b></p>
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		<title>By: zell</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/04/how-over-extended-is-fdic-insurance/comment-page-1/#comment-160153</link>
		<dc:creator>zell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Apr 2009 20:19:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=23238#comment-160153</guid>
		<description>Didn&#039;t  the FDIC severely reduce their fees in 1996 because risk was seen as diminished?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Didn&#8217;t  the FDIC severely reduce their fees in 1996 because risk was seen as diminished?</p>
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		<title>By: Blissex</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/04/how-over-extended-is-fdic-insurance/comment-page-1/#comment-160146</link>
		<dc:creator>Blissex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Apr 2009 20:02:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=23238#comment-160146</guid>
		<description>This whole discussion is a bit misguided. According to a FDIC letter, they run an unlimited-liability self-insurance scheme for all their members, and they can &quot;assess&quot; (take as &quot;fees&quot;) the whole capital of all member banks to pay back depositors:


 &lt;b&gt;http://www.fdic.gov/news/news/press/2008/pr08084.html&lt;/b&gt;
«As per  our authorizing statute, any money we might borrow from the Treasury  must be paid back from industry assessments.» «The FDIC receives no federal tax dollars – insured financial institutions fund its operations.»

 In other words that all the institutions whose deposits insured by it have unlimited liability to the FDIC, which has been set up as a  depository institution self-insurance pool. Treasury loans are provided
 only as working capital, to bridge the gap until the payments made by  the FDIC are *fully* recovered from the capital of depository institutions (down to the last cent of that capital).

I don&#039;t think there is any provision as to what happens if the losses to depositors are greater than the combined capital of all FDIC members. But it seems pretty clear that in practice the FDIC is backstopped not just by the whole capital of all its members, but also by the State.

And in any case the idea that a large part or all the capital of all solvent banks can be &quot;assessed&quot; by the FDIC before the State backstops the rest to pay off the depositors of insolvent banks is politically ludicrous, even if that seems to be the law. Congress would provide public funds well before all the capital of all FDIC members is wiped out.

Which may happen yet -- according to the FDIC that capital is $1.3t and aggregate losses may well approach or top that... :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This whole discussion is a bit misguided. According to a FDIC letter, they run an unlimited-liability self-insurance scheme for all their members, and they can &#8220;assess&#8221; (take as &#8220;fees&#8221;) the whole capital of all member banks to pay back depositors:</p>
<p> <b><a href="http://www.fdic.gov/news/news/press/2008/pr08084.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.fdic.gov/news/news/press/2008/pr08084.html</a></b><br />
«As per  our authorizing statute, any money we might borrow from the Treasury  must be paid back from industry assessments.» «The FDIC receives no federal tax dollars – insured financial institutions fund its operations.»</p>
<p> In other words that all the institutions whose deposits insured by it have unlimited liability to the FDIC, which has been set up as a  depository institution self-insurance pool. Treasury loans are provided<br />
 only as working capital, to bridge the gap until the payments made by  the FDIC are *fully* recovered from the capital of depository institutions (down to the last cent of that capital).</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think there is any provision as to what happens if the losses to depositors are greater than the combined capital of all FDIC members. But it seems pretty clear that in practice the FDIC is backstopped not just by the whole capital of all its members, but also by the State.</p>
<p>And in any case the idea that a large part or all the capital of all solvent banks can be &#8220;assessed&#8221; by the FDIC before the State backstops the rest to pay off the depositors of insolvent banks is politically ludicrous, even if that seems to be the law. Congress would provide public funds well before all the capital of all FDIC members is wiped out.</p>
<p>Which may happen yet &#8212; according to the FDIC that capital is $1.3t and aggregate losses may well approach or top that&#8230; <img src='http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: moses</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/04/how-over-extended-is-fdic-insurance/comment-page-1/#comment-160142</link>
		<dc:creator>moses</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Apr 2009 19:45:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=23238#comment-160142</guid>
		<description>Hi Bar,

Why should they have any reserves other than to pay beaurocrats to count and guard them,
and to furnish material for academics like yourself and Rolfe?

How much reserves would be enough according to the latest academic theoretical research?

Would printing enough money to reach some arbitrary threshold derived from non stake holders count as green jobs?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Bar,</p>
<p>Why should they have any reserves other than to pay beaurocrats to count and guard them,<br />
and to furnish material for academics like yourself and Rolfe?</p>
<p>How much reserves would be enough according to the latest academic theoretical research?</p>
<p>Would printing enough money to reach some arbitrary threshold derived from non stake holders count as green jobs?</p>
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		<title>By: Greg0658</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/04/how-over-extended-is-fdic-insurance/comment-page-1/#comment-160135</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg0658</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Apr 2009 19:25:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=23238#comment-160135</guid>
		<description>&quot;study the finer points of ’self-insurance’&quot; something like owning multiple paths to prosperity that one business with profits can buy services from another business under its own umbrella .. AccPay to its own supplier of service/product. Thus capturing more all-markets share. Benefit is spending captured profits from the consumers to own more of the all-markets .. perks and taxable profit spent legally = money in the pocket. I&#039;d like to have the ability to super-compute a mega-chain and newspaper inserts or tv ads or maybe retreats say a Super*Mart convention. 

But I know what ya really meant.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;study the finer points of ’self-insurance’&#8221; something like owning multiple paths to prosperity that one business with profits can buy services from another business under its own umbrella .. AccPay to its own supplier of service/product. Thus capturing more all-markets share. Benefit is spending captured profits from the consumers to own more of the all-markets .. perks and taxable profit spent legally = money in the pocket. I&#8217;d like to have the ability to super-compute a mega-chain and newspaper inserts or tv ads or maybe retreats say a Super*Mart convention. </p>
<p>But I know what ya really meant.</p>
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		<title>By: FromLori</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/04/how-over-extended-is-fdic-insurance/comment-page-1/#comment-160124</link>
		<dc:creator>FromLori</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Apr 2009 18:33:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=23238#comment-160124</guid>
		<description>Just wondering if you have seen Karl Denningers recent post it is very good...

http://market-ticker.org/authors/2-Karl-Denninger</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just wondering if you have seen Karl Denningers recent post it is very good&#8230;</p>
<p><a href="http://market-ticker.org/authors/2-Karl-Denninger" rel="nofollow">http://market-ticker.org/authors/2-Karl-Denninger</a></p>
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		<title>By: Rolfe</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/04/how-over-extended-is-fdic-insurance/comment-page-1/#comment-160123</link>
		<dc:creator>Rolfe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Apr 2009 18:24:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=23238#comment-160123</guid>
		<description>Rajesh

You are incorrect about the TLGP being separate from the DIF -- The FDIC merged the two in March.  (Their &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.fdic.gov/news/news/press/2009/pr09041.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Press Release is here&lt;/a&gt;).

Also, the fees collected are inconsequential compared to the liabilities absorbed, especially when you consider the issuers are all insolvent.  There&#039;s no way FDIC is charging enough to compensate adequately for the risk being taken.

But that&#039;s the whole point, of course.  If the borrowers were actually forced to pay market prices to place debt, none of them could.

-Rolfe</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rajesh</p>
<p>You are incorrect about the TLGP being separate from the DIF &#8212; The FDIC merged the two in March.  (Their <a href="http://www.fdic.gov/news/news/press/2009/pr09041.html" rel="nofollow">Press Release is here</a>).</p>
<p>Also, the fees collected are inconsequential compared to the liabilities absorbed, especially when you consider the issuers are all insolvent.  There&#8217;s no way FDIC is charging enough to compensate adequately for the risk being taken.</p>
<p>But that&#8217;s the whole point, of course.  If the borrowers were actually forced to pay market prices to place debt, none of them could.</p>
<p>-Rolfe</p>
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		<title>By: Mark E Hoffer</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/04/how-over-extended-is-fdic-insurance/comment-page-1/#comment-160122</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark E Hoffer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Apr 2009 18:17:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=23238#comment-160122</guid>
		<description>techy, 

this: http://www.storyofpakistan.com/articletext.asp?artid=A070

gets to it</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>techy, </p>
<p>this: <a href="http://www.storyofpakistan.com/articletext.asp?artid=A070" rel="nofollow">http://www.storyofpakistan.com/articletext.asp?artid=A070</a></p>
<p>gets to it</p>
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		<title>By: techy</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/04/how-over-extended-is-fdic-insurance/comment-page-1/#comment-160121</link>
		<dc:creator>techy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Apr 2009 18:14:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=23238#comment-160121</guid>
		<description>Mark....can you elaborate a bit on below...i am kind of curious to the E.Pakistan reference?

Bangledesh wouldn’t be the 4th-World cataclysm that it is, and has been since it stopped being E. Pakistan..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark&#8230;.can you elaborate a bit on below&#8230;i am kind of curious to the E.Pakistan reference?</p>
<p>Bangledesh wouldn’t be the 4th-World cataclysm that it is, and has been since it stopped being E. Pakistan..</p>
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