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	<title>Comments on: Keynes vs Friedman</title>
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	<description>Macro Perspective on the Capital Markets, Economy, Geopolitics, Technology, and Digital Media</description>
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		<title>By: DeDude</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/04/keynes-vs-friedman/comment-page-2/#comment-162308</link>
		<dc:creator>DeDude</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Apr 2009 14:32:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=23637#comment-162308</guid>
		<description>d4winds,

Very interesting.  Does that mean that the Fed is basically capitalizing sick banks for free, so they can make their stress test goals and capital ratio&#039;s?  Just asking because I don&#039;t know enough about what counts as &quot;capital&quot; in the regulatory requirements, and I figure it must be serving some purpose to move that paper money from the Fed vault to the bank vault.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>d4winds,</p>
<p>Very interesting.  Does that mean that the Fed is basically capitalizing sick banks for free, so they can make their stress test goals and capital ratio&#8217;s?  Just asking because I don&#8217;t know enough about what counts as &#8220;capital&#8221; in the regulatory requirements, and I figure it must be serving some purpose to move that paper money from the Fed vault to the bank vault.</p>
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		<title>By: d4winds</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/04/keynes-vs-friedman/comment-page-2/#comment-162283</link>
		<dc:creator>d4winds</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Apr 2009 11:37:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=23637#comment-162283</guid>
		<description>M2, the money stock, has not skyrocketed, but M1 (reserves held by banks at the Fed+currency in circulation) has.  The banking system currently has $.8tn in excess reserves, these are its Fed deposits that it can lend out, thereby increasing the money stock, but has not lent out.  The Fed recently (Aug) began paying interest on them, so the Fed funds spread over this Fed-paid interest is effectively zero, motivating banks to not lend the excess reserves.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>M2, the money stock, has not skyrocketed, but M1 (reserves held by banks at the Fed+currency in circulation) has.  The banking system currently has $.8tn in excess reserves, these are its Fed deposits that it can lend out, thereby increasing the money stock, but has not lent out.  The Fed recently (Aug) began paying interest on them, so the Fed funds spread over this Fed-paid interest is effectively zero, motivating banks to not lend the excess reserves.</p>
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		<title>By: Counsel</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/04/keynes-vs-friedman/comment-page-2/#comment-162156</link>
		<dc:creator>Counsel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Apr 2009 18:32:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=23637#comment-162156</guid>
		<description>Well, I would say that &quot;the market in Treasury Inflation-Protected Securities as of April 6 indicated long-term inflation expectations of 2.5 percent, below the 2.8 percent average inflation rate of the past 10 years&quot; is painted while wearing sunglasses...

In this economic downturn, 2.5 percent inflation might be &quot;high&quot; considering nobody is spending money ...  If job losses were eliminated and foreclosures were not happening, my guess is that the &quot;long-term inflation expectation&quot; would be much higher than 2.5% and reflect an increase due, likely, to the increase in monetary &quot;inputs&quot;...

Of course, I wear glasses as well...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I would say that &#8220;the market in Treasury Inflation-Protected Securities as of April 6 indicated long-term inflation expectations of 2.5 percent, below the 2.8 percent average inflation rate of the past 10 years&#8221; is painted while wearing sunglasses&#8230;</p>
<p>In this economic downturn, 2.5 percent inflation might be &#8220;high&#8221; considering nobody is spending money &#8230;  If job losses were eliminated and foreclosures were not happening, my guess is that the &#8220;long-term inflation expectation&#8221; would be much higher than 2.5% and reflect an increase due, likely, to the increase in monetary &#8220;inputs&#8221;&#8230;</p>
<p>Of course, I wear glasses as well&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: DeDude</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/04/keynes-vs-friedman/comment-page-2/#comment-162121</link>
		<dc:creator>DeDude</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Apr 2009 16:19:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=23637#comment-162121</guid>
		<description>If they printed 560 trillion dollar bills and that paper was placed in a bankbox and never got out, the supply of dollars would have increased by a huge amount, yet it would have absolutely no effect on inflation or anything else.  

Money cannot create inflation until it gets into the hands of consumers (or investors).  If it hits the hands of housing consumers it will create inflation in housing, if it hits the hands of stock consumers it will create inflation in stocks.  

Right now the amount of money they are creating is not enough to compensate for the destruction of money created by financial institutions in the past decade.  It seems that the created money is almost all hitting the hands of “government bond” investors so we have inflation in bonds.  The money destroyed is coming out of consumers of housing &amp; stock investments, so we have deflation there.  Since the finaincial institutions refuse to put their bailout money where it is needed to fight deflation, government must bypass them and invest directly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If they printed 560 trillion dollar bills and that paper was placed in a bankbox and never got out, the supply of dollars would have increased by a huge amount, yet it would have absolutely no effect on inflation or anything else.  </p>
<p>Money cannot create inflation until it gets into the hands of consumers (or investors).  If it hits the hands of housing consumers it will create inflation in housing, if it hits the hands of stock consumers it will create inflation in stocks.  </p>
<p>Right now the amount of money they are creating is not enough to compensate for the destruction of money created by financial institutions in the past decade.  It seems that the created money is almost all hitting the hands of “government bond” investors so we have inflation in bonds.  The money destroyed is coming out of consumers of housing &amp; stock investments, so we have deflation there.  Since the finaincial institutions refuse to put their bailout money where it is needed to fight deflation, government must bypass them and invest directly.</p>
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		<title>By: Unsympathetic</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/04/keynes-vs-friedman/comment-page-2/#comment-162114</link>
		<dc:creator>Unsympathetic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Apr 2009 15:44:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=23637#comment-162114</guid>
		<description>BR, you need to include Steve Keen in this discussion.

Keynes v Friedman are NOT the only 2 ideas.

http://www.debtdeflation.com/blogs/2009/01/31/therovingcavaliersofcredit/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BR, you need to include Steve Keen in this discussion.</p>
<p>Keynes v Friedman are NOT the only 2 ideas.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.debtdeflation.com/blogs/2009/01/31/therovingcavaliersofcredit/" rel="nofollow">http://www.debtdeflation.com/blogs/2009/01/31/therovingcavaliersofcredit/</a></p>
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		<title>By: DeDude</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/04/keynes-vs-friedman/comment-page-2/#comment-162113</link>
		<dc:creator>DeDude</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Apr 2009 15:40:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=23637#comment-162113</guid>
		<description>Fact is that you cannot increase your prices beyond what your customers can pay.  To get inflation (and we desperately need it) we have to first get increases in wages - so consumers can afford to pay more for products.  That will not happen before unemployment sinks to less than 5% or we get 60 senators from the socialist party.  Unfortunately inflation is at least 5 years away.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fact is that you cannot increase your prices beyond what your customers can pay.  To get inflation (and we desperately need it) we have to first get increases in wages &#8211; so consumers can afford to pay more for products.  That will not happen before unemployment sinks to less than 5% or we get 60 senators from the socialist party.  Unfortunately inflation is at least 5 years away.</p>
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		<title>By: danm</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/04/keynes-vs-friedman/comment-page-2/#comment-162064</link>
		<dc:creator>danm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Apr 2009 11:56:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=23637#comment-162064</guid>
		<description>If you think the Fed isn’t furiously adding money to the economy, just take a gander at their balance sheet of late. It is now at $2 trillion, and expected to go to $3 trillion by years end. All of the increase represents new dollars, but without any new output. Most of the new dollars are going directly to housing ($750 billion to buy MBS, in addition to $500 billion already planned or bought)
------------------
1.  Government is squeezing out the private players so capacity is bound to decline.

2.  Government is reinjecting money into the zombies.  People aren&#039;t stupid at one point that money will flow out of the dead sectors and go into the new ones.

3. But when this happens, the money into those sectors will probably flow faster than production so prices will increase.

4.  Contrary to popular belief, throughout history deflation has been a good thing... it&#039;s not so good now that we have central banks!  Government NEEDS inflation to make future debt affordable.

5.  Deflation is my personal best case scenario and because there is an obvious lack of fear when it comes to the prospect of inflation, I&#039;m betting we&#039;re going to get hit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you think the Fed isn’t furiously adding money to the economy, just take a gander at their balance sheet of late. It is now at $2 trillion, and expected to go to $3 trillion by years end. All of the increase represents new dollars, but without any new output. Most of the new dollars are going directly to housing ($750 billion to buy MBS, in addition to $500 billion already planned or bought)<br />
&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;<br />
1.  Government is squeezing out the private players so capacity is bound to decline.</p>
<p>2.  Government is reinjecting money into the zombies.  People aren&#8217;t stupid at one point that money will flow out of the dead sectors and go into the new ones.</p>
<p>3. But when this happens, the money into those sectors will probably flow faster than production so prices will increase.</p>
<p>4.  Contrary to popular belief, throughout history deflation has been a good thing&#8230; it&#8217;s not so good now that we have central banks!  Government NEEDS inflation to make future debt affordable.</p>
<p>5.  Deflation is my personal best case scenario and because there is an obvious lack of fear when it comes to the prospect of inflation, I&#8217;m betting we&#8217;re going to get hit.</p>
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		<title>By: flipspiceland</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/04/keynes-vs-friedman/comment-page-2/#comment-162061</link>
		<dc:creator>flipspiceland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Apr 2009 10:51:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=23637#comment-162061</guid>
		<description>Bernanke&#039;s term is up in 2010.  Assuming he has had it, then he won&#039;t be around to apologize when inflation really kicks in. Just like Greenspan he can say, from offstage in the book he will write, that &#039;mistakes&#039;  were made but he had no other good choices, yada, yada, yada.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bernanke&#8217;s term is up in 2010.  Assuming he has had it, then he won&#8217;t be around to apologize when inflation really kicks in. Just like Greenspan he can say, from offstage in the book he will write, that &#8216;mistakes&#8217;  were made but he had no other good choices, yada, yada, yada.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark E Hoffer</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/04/keynes-vs-friedman/comment-page-2/#comment-162059</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark E Hoffer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Apr 2009 06:34:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=23637#comment-162059</guid>
		<description>here&#039;s, yet, a different take:

&quot;...1.  Central or &quot;free&quot; -- the bank serves only one
                critical function in an economy (a slight
                exaggeration, but not by much)

        2.  That function is wholly described in Roger Ward
                Babson astoundingly fine book on _Banking,
                Bond and Stocks: The Elements of Successful
                Investing_, 1919

                Do visit two citations to this book in the
                CITS DEBT WATCH:

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=%22roger+ward+babson%22+1919&amp;ie=ISO-8859-1&amp;hl=en

        3.  The one critical function of banking is to assure
                that the income from loans exceeds the cost
                of loans.

                Babson notes that the only thorough way to assure
                this is a banking process where bankers have
                extensive knowledge of the risks attendant to
                each loan.

                The banker sets a risk premium accordingly.

                The bankers who fail to do so, are put out of
                business during economic hardships.

                The bankers who loaned according to careful
                practices stay in business.

        4.  As for the money supply, as we know from the
                very basic principal of macroeconomics:

                PY=MV
                  (where P stands for aggregate price;
                  Y for national output; M for money supply;
                  and V for velocity of money)

                The relationship between M (commonly M2),
                and inflation is hotly debated.

                Indeed, if the treasury expands the supply
                of money via the purchase of goods and 
                services that no debt secures, then, they
                are truly printing money.  And, most often
                the result is inflation -- a nasty punishment
                of all &quot;fixed income&quot; folk, who, now, continuously
                pay the &quot;hidden tax&quot; imposed by the &quot;printing
                of money&quot; that lacks backing -- either as federal
                debt, or as a &quot;call upon&quot; future tax income.

                My point is -- unless hoarding occurs, the
                velocity of money can increase as fast as
                modern banking can get money to exchange hands.

                So, a fixed money supply has only a secondary
                effect on an economy&#039;s ability to grow, as, that
                growth can simply have a 1:1 correspondence with
                the increased velocity.

                But I do see a tension.  It takes time and
                deliberation for a banker to meet the risk
                assessment process described in #2, above...

*****In summary, it is my view that over 90% of outstanding loans
would not pass the risk/security test that Babson describes
in his 1919 book.  ******I.e., we are facing the possibility of
huge defaults.  Does FDIC save the day?  Well, if you are
a federal government with a $44 trillion debt, and if an
economic downturn assesses that the U.S. Federal Government
is a bad risk -- they have no money except via taxation.
(there is less than $1 of reserve against every $100 of FDIC
insured funds)

And, if we have a President who doesn&#039;t have a clue about
all this, and he actually just signed a bill to yet increase
the U.S. Federal debt by another $330 billion per year, and I&#039;d
say &quot;our goose is cooked.&quot;

There is only one, non-hyperinflationary avenue out of such
a mess.  The President has the power, by executive order,
to convert all &quot;T&quot; bills to 30 year bonds...&quot;
http://www.colorado.edu/peacestudies/sustainable-economics/debt/archives/msg00784.html
01 June 2003

and, as a reminder MIT is not Hartford..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>here&#8217;s, yet, a different take:</p>
<p>&#8220;&#8230;1.  Central or &#8220;free&#8221; &#8212; the bank serves only one<br />
                critical function in an economy (a slight<br />
                exaggeration, but not by much)</p>
<p>        2.  That function is wholly described in Roger Ward<br />
                Babson astoundingly fine book on _Banking,<br />
                Bond and Stocks: The Elements of Successful<br />
                Investing_, 1919</p>
<p>                Do visit two citations to this book in the<br />
                CITS DEBT WATCH:</p>
<p><a href="http://groups.google.com/groups?q=%22roger+ward+babson%22+1919&#038;ie=ISO-8859-1&#038;hl=en" rel="nofollow">http://groups.google.com/groups?q=%22roger+ward+babson%22+1919&#038;ie=ISO-8859-1&#038;hl=en</a></p>
<p>        3.  The one critical function of banking is to assure<br />
                that the income from loans exceeds the cost<br />
                of loans.</p>
<p>                Babson notes that the only thorough way to assure<br />
                this is a banking process where bankers have<br />
                extensive knowledge of the risks attendant to<br />
                each loan.</p>
<p>                The banker sets a risk premium accordingly.</p>
<p>                The bankers who fail to do so, are put out of<br />
                business during economic hardships.</p>
<p>                The bankers who loaned according to careful<br />
                practices stay in business.</p>
<p>        4.  As for the money supply, as we know from the<br />
                very basic principal of macroeconomics:</p>
<p>                PY=MV<br />
                  (where P stands for aggregate price;<br />
                  Y for national output; M for money supply;<br />
                  and V for velocity of money)</p>
<p>                The relationship between M (commonly M2),<br />
                and inflation is hotly debated.</p>
<p>                Indeed, if the treasury expands the supply<br />
                of money via the purchase of goods and<br />
                services that no debt secures, then, they<br />
                are truly printing money.  And, most often<br />
                the result is inflation &#8212; a nasty punishment<br />
                of all &#8220;fixed income&#8221; folk, who, now, continuously<br />
                pay the &#8220;hidden tax&#8221; imposed by the &#8220;printing<br />
                of money&#8221; that lacks backing &#8212; either as federal<br />
                debt, or as a &#8220;call upon&#8221; future tax income.</p>
<p>                My point is &#8212; unless hoarding occurs, the<br />
                velocity of money can increase as fast as<br />
                modern banking can get money to exchange hands.</p>
<p>                So, a fixed money supply has only a secondary<br />
                effect on an economy&#8217;s ability to grow, as, that<br />
                growth can simply have a 1:1 correspondence with<br />
                the increased velocity.</p>
<p>                But I do see a tension.  It takes time and<br />
                deliberation for a banker to meet the risk<br />
                assessment process described in #2, above&#8230;</p>
<p>*****In summary, it is my view that over 90% of outstanding loans<br />
would not pass the risk/security test that Babson describes<br />
in his 1919 book.  ******I.e., we are facing the possibility of<br />
huge defaults.  Does FDIC save the day?  Well, if you are<br />
a federal government with a $44 trillion debt, and if an<br />
economic downturn assesses that the U.S. Federal Government<br />
is a bad risk &#8212; they have no money except via taxation.<br />
(there is less than $1 of reserve against every $100 of FDIC<br />
insured funds)</p>
<p>And, if we have a President who doesn&#8217;t have a clue about<br />
all this, and he actually just signed a bill to yet increase<br />
the U.S. Federal debt by another $330 billion per year, and I&#8217;d<br />
say &#8220;our goose is cooked.&#8221;</p>
<p>There is only one, non-hyperinflationary avenue out of such<br />
a mess.  The President has the power, by executive order,<br />
to convert all &#8220;T&#8221; bills to 30 year bonds&#8230;&#8221;<br />
<a href="http://www.colorado.edu/peacestudies/sustainable-economics/debt/archives/msg00784.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.colorado.edu/peacestudies/sustainable-economics/debt/archives/msg00784.html</a><br />
01 June 2003</p>
<p>and, as a reminder MIT is not Hartford..</p>
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		<title>By: dunnage</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/04/keynes-vs-friedman/comment-page-2/#comment-162055</link>
		<dc:creator>dunnage</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Apr 2009 06:14:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=23637#comment-162055</guid>
		<description>Friedman will be forgotten.   Though I admittedly still see a faceless grin in nightmares that must be his.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Friedman will be forgotten.   Though I admittedly still see a faceless grin in nightmares that must be his.</p>
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