Bailouts: Focus on Economics, Not Politics
I have been more critical than most about the absurd cost of the bailouts. But I have avoided posting on the so-called “tea parties;” Despite myriad invitations, I sure as hell won’t join one.
Why? The main reason is that they are mostly exercises in partisan politics — as opposed to a true focus on the real problems issues of the bailouts: The absurd costs, the moral hazard of rescuing bad companies, the foolishness of rewarding incompetent managements. etc..
I haven’t discussed it much, because like most modern politics, it has morphed into mostly nonsense. The most recent tea party hypocrisy, however, demanded my attention.
Dallas News: Texas Gov. Rick Perry fired up an anti-tax “tea party” Wednesday with his stance against the federal government and for states’ rights as some in his U.S. flag-waving audience shouted, “Secede!”
If you don’t want to take Federal bailout funds, more power to you. I have no issue with that philosophical stance. That’s between an elected official and his electorate. I suspect the voters may have other views come November, but that’s why taking a principled stance isn’t always easy — there may be real world repercussions.
Apparently, the good Governor Perry and his friends in the Texas state legislature seemed to have had a change of heart:
Stimulus funds to repair Texas Governor’s Mansion
AUSTIN, Texas (AP) — While Gov. Rick Perry is criticizing Washington bailouts, state lawmakers are planning to use $11 million in federal stimulus money to help rebuild the badly burned Texas Governor’s Mansion . . . The mansion was burned in an arson fire last summer.
Perry has railed against federal bailouts and what he called the free-spending, power-hungry ways of Washington. In January, he said Texas was endangered by Uncle Sam’s “audacity.”
WTF?
I can only conclude that in order to run for governor in Texas, there is some sort of an IQ test involved — if you pass it, you become ineligible for state office . . .
>
Sources:
Perry fires up anti-tax crowd
KELLEY SHANNON
04/15/2009, Associated Press
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/APStories/stories/D97J48IO2.html
Stimulus funds to repair Texas Governor’s Mansion
JAY ROOT
Associated Press May 21, 6:25 pm ET
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090521/ap_on_re_us/us_governor_s_mansion_texas
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May 30th, 2009 at 5:24 pm
The tea parties are just a pressure valve for a pissed off population that knows it is powerless to do anything about the current situation and what it is afraid will be the future situation. If these were tea parties with bombs in the bags, then they would be worth fearing. I had a relative back in the day who, along with thousands of others, tossed Molotov cocktails at banks. Now the banks are sorry, so it worked.
May 30th, 2009 at 5:33 pm
And something not even mentioned about Perry’s “Secede” idea is just how sour grapes can he be? Texas just had the fortune to have had the president of the country for 8 years. Your guy leaves and you go completely bananas because you no longer have the roost. What a cry baby!
May 30th, 2009 at 6:06 pm
“In our civilization, and under our republican form of government, intelligence is so highly honored that it is rewarded by exemption from the cares of office.”
— Ambrose Bierce
May 30th, 2009 at 6:20 pm
well we have always noticed that governor hair do, is more of a partisan than any thing else. besides, the governor is mostly a figure head than an administrator in this state. long ago i guess we decided that a very weak governor is best. and this one fits the bill. about the only thing they can do is sign laws or veto them. beyond that, not to much.
May 30th, 2009 at 6:23 pm
and you are probably right about that iq test. after all, most of us know we can’t secede any way (i think there was some war that set every one straight on that). about all we can do is break up into 5 parts. but that isn’t much of an option. other than having been our own country (and doing very badly as one) we aren’t that different. besides we get to much federal aid in the way of military bases.
May 30th, 2009 at 6:24 pm
We, as a nation, just re-elected all these clowns in November. We deserve everything we get until the next round of elections.
May 30th, 2009 at 6:27 pm
Barry: I’m disappointed that you seem to be equally guilty of partisan sniping here, can you find no examples of bipartisan hypocrisy?
Dissing the tea parties is also fairly elitist.
And just how does one remove politics from economics in the real world?
May 30th, 2009 at 6:40 pm
Wasn’t Ross Perot from Texas? And his tea party did exactly what? I say let Texas secede. In fact I’d contribute to the war funds. Who needs a nation full of Texans. Don’t get me started on Texans.
Agree tea parties tend to be partisan and solve nothing.
But “partisan” politics. Seems both parties are equally adept at doing corporate wishes, and the cartel.
What to do to rally the troops to rail against the Feds before it’s too late?
It’s probably too late. And we’re dealing with less intellect daily among voting citizens.
I suspect it’s going to take major social upheaval and violence leading to chaos and collapse. And even then we could easily wind up with a “Putin” type oligarchy. No better.
Maybe a less partisan approach than “throw the bums out” might be to revisit the notion of redoing our form of government. Rally the troops to updating our feckless corrupt Feds.
The House of Representatives is obviously an anachronism that serves only to keep corrupt rascals doing whatever it takes to keep the campaign coffers full as they never quit running for re-election.
May 30th, 2009 at 6:43 pm
It is not just the politicians in Texas (past and present) who are fools but upwards of 30% of the people polled favor a secession. That is what you are dealing with in the Lone Star State.
May 30th, 2009 at 6:45 pm
In my lowbrow way of looking at things, I am stumpified that these fine conservatives would publicly proclaim their proclivity to group teabag. In public.
May 30th, 2009 at 6:47 pm
I’m all in favor of the tea parties – not that they’re going to influence Obama’s thinking one way or another. These “tea parties” do get out the message to the politicians that there is a portion of the electorate that would like to see limits on federal spending and taxation. Those who want government to consume a larger portion of the economy will probably oppose them. And those, like myself, who would like to see the federal government consume a much smaller portion of the economy will favor these demonstrations.
May 30th, 2009 at 6:56 pm
@dead
It was humorous to see some in the media use that term ‘teabag’ exclusively. I doubt many of those fine conservatives realized what a set-up for mockery it was. Except of course that hipster Steele.
May 30th, 2009 at 6:57 pm
Moss @ 6:43
“…upwards of 30% of the people [in Texas] polled favor a secession”.
There’s no possibility that it would happen. But I also think that residents of Texas might well be better off as an independent country. First, Texas is one of the most economically prosperous states of the U.S.; Texas would do well economically as a separate country. Second, by becoming a separate country, Texas would bear no obligation to pay off any of the national debt.
Again, it is completely outside the realm of possibility that Texas will become an independent country. But the debate nevertheless has considerable merit as part of an overall economic analysis of the U.S., and also in a legal sense, specifically the issue of the rights of the states to make policy versus the “right” of the other 49 states to impose their will.
May 30th, 2009 at 7:10 pm
@DL
If they did leave they can forget about prosperity. All those military bases would move, they would need an army to guard the border with Mexico, and don’t forget that Texas is one of biggest recipients of Federal aid, disaster and otherwise. BR is correct in his strictly partition assessment of the scheme.
May 30th, 2009 at 7:33 pm
Barry, that was a brutal closer:
I can only conclude that in order to run for governor in Texas, there is some sort of an IQ test involved — if you pass it, you become ineligible for state office . . .
I dont think the Texans are all thrilled with this guy…and look at the class acts that run albany so well for us New Yorkers!
Being stupid and being conniving are two different things.
May 30th, 2009 at 7:42 pm
Moss @ 7:10
You’re probably right about the military bases. If it is really true that Texas receives far more Federal money than it pays out in taxes, then there is an argument to be made that residents of Texas would benefit more from remaining a state than becoming a country. But I don’t know if that’s true or not. And again, there’s the question of the Federal debt. My guess is that the politicians are going to wait until the national debt rises to become twice the GDP, and then they’ll sit up and take notice. Or maybe they’ll wait until it becomes three times GDP. Certainly, if we get to the point where the national debt is three times GDP, Texas would be better off as a separate country by almost any analysis that I can come up with.
May 30th, 2009 at 7:49 pm
They didn’t have insurance on the governor’s mansion?
May 30th, 2009 at 7:53 pm
“Texas would bear no obligation to pay off any of the national debt.”
This may be true, but were they to secede they could elect GWB head of state/president/el hefe and they would soon have a new national debt all their own. After they invaded Mexico, of course.
May 30th, 2009 at 7:56 pm
I’ve noticed that the states making the most noise out of “not accepting stimulus money”, etc. are hydrocarbon rich states: Louisiana, Texas, and Alaska. Domestic oil producing states will be doing relatively well in the future and they might not want to share. Will we have a few Kurdistan’s in our future?
May 30th, 2009 at 7:57 pm
Much as I hate Texas (well…I do like watching it get smaller and smaller after taking off from DFW when I have to connect there!), they actually pay more in taxes than they get in spending. $0.94 per $1 (#35/50).
However, much maligned California does far worse in the spending per dollar account. We get a paltry $0.78 per dollar spent (#43/50).
The top five are:
New Mexico: $2.03 per dollar (#1)
Mississippi: $2.02 per dollar (#2)
Alaska: $1.84 per dollar (#3) — plus you can see Russia from there
Louisiana: $1.78 per dollar (#4) — Hi Bobby!
West Virginia: $1.76 per dollar (#5)
You can view the whole list here:
http://www.taxfoundation.org/taxdata/show/266.html
May 30th, 2009 at 8:20 pm
franklin411 @ 7:57
No reason to hate Texas or Texans.
In any case, that was a handy link (taxfoundation.org).
May 30th, 2009 at 8:38 pm
@DL
Yeah, you’re right…Hate is too strong. I still don’t like the place, though. Everything is brown and dead there…it doesn’t matter what season it is, nothing seems to be green!
May 30th, 2009 at 8:38 pm
Barry, “WTF?” That’s pretty unprofessional……………..
[BR: You are obviously new here. WTF is an internet term of art, standing for What the Fuck, which I am usually too lazy to type out . . . ]
I’m Texan, have been a long time, and proud of it………… I can’t think of another state I’d rather live in. (I would like it a bit more if the weather weren’t so warm in the Summer….ha. Thank goodness for air conditioning…..)
We don’t mind the money. We don’t like the strings the federal government attached to it. In fact, we like the money so much, we’d rather not send it to Washington in the first place………
Regarding the tea parties, I don’t think the Republican party had much, if anything, to do with them. It looks to me like they were formed by a lot of individuals who are concerned about the level of spending, taxes, and debt the federal government is headed towards.
I feel like all the attention given to blaming Republicans for our problems right now is mostly a waste of time. In case you haven’t noticed, they’re not in control at the moment.
May 30th, 2009 at 8:49 pm
DL is right. The tea parties help more than they hurt in getting out the anti-bailout, anti-spending message.
Unfortunately, even though many of the individual tea parties were genuine grass-roots affairs (do some research on the one in Bowling Green, Kentucky if you’re doubtful), the MSM has danced their left-right two-step to a “t.” Fox championed the damned things, for goodness’ sake. Then the left-leaning media came along and did their part to put out the meme that the whole thing might be nothing more than GOP-funded “astroturf.” Of course the tea parties were more popular with Republican types, but I know more than few Obama voters who supported the tea-party message, even if they didn’t take part.
This may sound like a joke, but if they have another round of tea parties on July 4, the organizers could give themselves a real boost if they started throwing people like Sean Hannity into the water along with the tea. Gingrich is a little on the heavy side, but Hannity I think they could handle. Any other candidates? (I don’t watch Fox news.) In fact, if the logistics of getting these guys tossed in the water are just too dicey, why not publicly disinvite the losers from Fox and the GOP? There’s no way the MSM would ignore that story — it’s about THEM, after all. Just thinking out loud here…
May 30th, 2009 at 8:53 pm
Texas Constructs U.S. Border Wall To Keep Out Unwanted Americans
http://www.theonion.com/content/news/texas_constructs_u_s_border_wall
One man’s list of what Texas would lose from the United States of America if they did secede.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DJKpsUq9IY
Here’s a bill in Texas to support a master’s degree in Creationism. Nothing yet about a BS in Astrology…
http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/tlodocs/81R/billtext/html/HB02800I.htm
Tea parties should be about taxes. That’s their history in America. If you have a tea party because you don’t like the gov’t-preferred stock in banks, CAFE standards, etc… you’re losing your authenticity. If taxes really do go “too high,” by all means, have one, but if 95% of the populace gets a tax cut. I don’t see how these tea parties have anything, it could be too late. But if you don’t like activist gov’t don’t have a tea party, have a putsch.
Oh and if you don’t like America, leave.
May 30th, 2009 at 8:54 pm
As a resident of Texas I can say with some certainty that Rick Perry is an empty suited pretty boy politician, no doubt. However, even a blind squirrel can find a nut….and I think this sort of talk is hitting some nerves….
Texas is an EXTREMELY independent type state….very Libertarian leaning, though most people don’t identify themselves that way (they still think they’re Republicans). People here really don’t give a rat’s ass about the rest of the country, and there is some serious frustration building up for bailing out CA and “Banksters from NY/CT.”
I’ve lived in CA, NY, WA and TX, and I can tell you that in terms of economics/politics, this state is far ahead of the others. It’s got some miserable weather, but there was no housing bubble and most people here are very loathe to any handouts, notwithstanding our Plastic Man governor Perry’s actions.
I’m not a native Texan, but I love the Libertarian-bent to this state….
May 30th, 2009 at 8:56 pm
The only thing partisan about the tea parties is in the opposition to them.The tea parties arose as there is no established organized opposition to what elected officials of both parties have been doing ,particularly in the last few years. I suppose Senator Lindsay Graham makes the opposition bipartisan. It is understandable,in a two party system,that some officials in the out-of-power party would try to get on the wagon.Those who voted for TARP will find their is no place for them.
I couldn’t find anything in the linked article about Gov. Rick Perry specifically seeking Federal money.
I don’t like the Texas governor, just like President Obama he lied during his campaign about raising taxes.
May 30th, 2009 at 9:14 pm
You can’t claim the Tea Parties were non-partisan when the fundamental principle they were organized on–that taxes are too high–is wrong.
America has one of the lowest tax burdens in the civilized world:
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/tax_tot_tax_as_of_gdp-taxation-total-as-of-gdp
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_revenue_as_percentage_of_GDP
May 30th, 2009 at 9:16 pm
An interesting poem called ‘The Other Alamo’
http://vietnamwar.lib.umb.edu/warHome/docs/poem_MartinEspada.html
“One was my father; his word for fury
is Texas.”
As an aside, the West Florida Rebellion was the template for the Texas grab.
http://www.independent.org/publications/working_papers/article.asp?id=1478
One can believe in myth or history, doesn’t much matter, the stupid is too many…
Other than that, I lived in Austin for years, it was ok- lots of fun before 96-97 (metro population grew in that period, 18 months @ 3,000 a month). Loved the kids from out state- the Dallas and Houston ones, not so much.
May 30th, 2009 at 9:18 pm
Texas leads all states in FEMA assistance, CA is number 2.
May 30th, 2009 at 9:19 pm
The issue with most politicians is that they speak out of both sides of their mouths. If he said that about the USG publicly and took money, think what must be going on that his constituents are unaware of. We need leaders who do the right things. Not the special interest or the popular thing. If half of our leaders were that way they’d cancelled out the other half who weren’t. But that’s the problem. The majority of our leaders are beholding to someone or something and not us.
May 30th, 2009 at 9:24 pm
What I love most about Texas, is Texans; and the fact that they love their state… As far as I can tell the BEST and WORST aspect of Texas is it’s proximity to Mexico… and I have no idea why I this is one of my favored quotes: “¡Pobre México! ¡Tan lejos de Dios y tan cerca de los Estados Unidos!” (Poor Mexico, so far from God and so close to the United States!)
I was gonna post all the states I’ve lived in and visited; but I’ll be labeled a transient and picked on unmercifully, i’m sure.
May 30th, 2009 at 9:27 pm
pls forgive me for the it’s vs its… i hate it when i do that…
May 30th, 2009 at 9:29 pm
F411,
Congratulations on stringing together two non sequitors in one post. (Taxes are a partisan issue? Europe has high taxes, so ours therefore aren’t “too high”?)
Also, factually speaking, the fundamental concerns of the tea parties were bailouts and spending — both of which LEAD TO higher taxes later on. Whatever you think of them, the people involved in these things aren’t as dumb as some people would like to think they are.
For the record, I didn’t have anything to do with any of them, but I’m glad they happened and I hope they continue and evolve into something more obviously non-partisan.
May 30th, 2009 at 9:37 pm
@ karen
I’ve lived in a few states in my life, including a U.S. territory and two foreign countries. While nomadic it gave me the opportunity to observe ways of lives from various lifestyles and circumstances. So, I think it was a good thing although I didn’t make a lot of life lasting freinds in the process.
May 30th, 2009 at 9:45 pm
The tea parties are about the spending.TARP, the stimulus,Obama’s as yet unpassed spending agenda,lingering anger about Medicaid Part-B and NCLB (even the War) etc.
The tax component is the future obligation to pay for these things.Almost no one ever believed only the
“upper %5″ was going to cover it.I assumed that message about “not one thin dime on %95 of taxpayers” was directed at a small number of slow-witted middle class independents.Everyone else knows the Democrats are going to raise taxes on all classes for as much as they can get away with(hence the buzz about the VAT).
May 30th, 2009 at 9:47 pm
More than 10% of Texans currently wanted by police
Texas State Senator Eliot Shapleigh is talking about Working on the Chain Gang.
A couple of weeks ago, the local paper printed names of El Pasoans with outstanding arrest warrants. 78,000 El Pasoans made the paper! What’s going on here?
Here are the facts. Of the 78,000 almost all are for moving violations. When we compared Austin, same story: 11% of Austin has outstanding arrest warrants.
Nearly one in ten Texans can’t pay: students, single mothers, working families, essentially low and even middle income Texans whose income can’t keep up with gas, insurance, taxes and tickets too.
Our office has interviewed several Texans listed for outstanding warrants to determine the impact to them. Names were changed in order to preserve anonymity.
Jane Smith who works in El Paso has close to $3,500 dollars in outstanding tickets. She is behind on her rent. Under Texas Driver Responsibility laws she will also face over $3,000 in surcharges.
During the early years of Texas, thousands came here from England and the East Coast to escape debt (and debtor’s prisons). Today, our own tax system uses the threat of prison to collect trauma care money.
Working on the chain gang makes it awfully hard to pay for a ticket.
May 30th, 2009 at 10:01 pm
Barry, I agree that the most visible political discourse sucks in this country. It’s one thing to be a politician and talk out of both sides of your mouth — heck, even Lincoln did that. It’s another thing to gin up phony “grassroots” ideas like the tea party meme and use pretty sophisticated media savvy to (a) make it “go viral” while (b) disguising the true very un-spontaneous origins. The DNC does similar things, so I’m just as disgusted with them — and large corporate interests (notably tobacco and energy) do it as well.
The disorienting aspect of this is that everybody paying attention is seething right now but the MSM and political parties turn every idea they touch to shit. Spin & dumb down — rinse, lather, repeat. It sucks.
Texans are some of my favorite people, because per capita they are above-average completely out of their minds/larger than life and IMO they’re one of the only bastions of genuine independent spirit left in the US. And that’s coming from a lifelong Yankee (though not a Damned Yankee, I’m sure).
May 30th, 2009 at 10:15 pm
F411 @ 9:14
Clawback is right. Federal spending creates a tax liability, which must ultimately be paid, or else the dollar devalued that much more.
May 30th, 2009 at 10:22 pm
@Transor Z
I don’t have a dog in this fight, but the origins of the tea party concept are multiple and complex. Yes, the astroturf aspect has been talked up quite a bit, but that’s hardly the whole story. I remember seeing the Santelli rant on Youtube and — swear to God — I actually cheered out loud at the friggin’ computer screen. I also immediately wrote CNBC that night — for what? I don’t know, but you have to remember that at the time of Rick’s Rant, the bailouts had sort of been forgotten and the “stimulus” was a fait accompli. People like myself had been stewing for months and for whatever reason Santelli really struck a nerve. I also spent the next couple of days trolling the internet looking for people interested in organizing something — not much luck in my area. But I did come across alot of people in other places who had been similarly energized by Santelli. That part of the story is real, not fake. But as you say, the MSM and GOP get within ten feet and it turns to shit. So here we are. What do we do next (besides try to make some money)?
May 30th, 2009 at 10:23 pm
Classic Ritholtz link/comment baiting — and on a Saturday night no less. You complain about trolls, then you wave a red flag in fornt of them!
~~~
BR: Guilt. Its the weekend, and i felt like having some fun.,
May 30th, 2009 at 10:30 pm
Well, that was an interesting post, considering that I have Richard Branson on a pedestal.
May 30th, 2009 at 10:31 pm
the United States are that- States that are united- as Lee identified himself as a Virginian- people from Texas may view themselves as Texans first and not citizens of the United States first- States that are united can become States that are un-united-
I was looking at a map the other day of all of North America- Mexico, USA and Canada- and I was thinking how arbitrary all the borders are- man made little lines- but as we know- through the centuries lines change and disappear-
I’m not sold on the USA- especially now
May 30th, 2009 at 10:38 pm
@Karen: Was that you windsurfing with him? ;)
May 30th, 2009 at 10:40 pm
I need to learn some new languages- so I can say the same thing over an over but make it look interesting
May 30th, 2009 at 10:46 pm
Hey, how is it that the government gave GM about $20 Billion, they are going to go BK anyway Monday and Obama is out on broadway tonight getting standing ovations…only in Bailout Nation, the bestselling book, soon to be a major motion picture starring
Robert DeNiro as Barry Ritholtz.
May 30th, 2009 at 10:46 pm
@Ahab: Probably just Babelfish. Either that or it’s the Rosetta Stone of spam.
May 30th, 2009 at 10:48 pm
The Boston Tea Party was about, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Tea_Party
1) Taxation without representation.
2) Government favoritism toward a corporation/monopoly (British East India Company)
With regard to #1, if you Don’t Vote Don’t Complain (~50% of the population),
If you voted, you have the right to complain.
With regard to #2, we still have the same problem with government favoring
corporations (See BR book), associated lobbyist, and “Crass Philistines” who don’t deserve it, and thats what the
“populace” needs to be protesting, and not taxation/spending (unless you voted, and then tell your
own politician). Voters elect the politicians who set taxation/spending policy and therefore Tea Party protest
reason #1 does not apply.
Note: “Crass Philistine” comes from Hugo Munsterberg who wrote a book “The Americans” for the
German audience circa 1904. He said the biggest danger in Europe was Socialism – The tyrant/dictatorial kind (came to fruition with Nazis/Communist), and not the Swedish type-democratic & free market capitalism incorporated (who handled their banking crisis), and the biggest danger in America was Crass Philistinism.
Only Crass Philistines can design a health care system where the U.S. public system spends the same as other
countries without full coverage plus what the private sector spends. See the Health Care Expenditure per capita chart:
http://scienceblogs.com/denialism/2009/05/are_patients_in_universal_heal.php
Is that a wise allocation of resources? especially for the private sector spending?
And do we really want Mandatory private corporation insurance via congress (again the government endorsed monopoly) especially with their record of screwing over policy holders because of Crass Philistinism?
The private insurance industry only cares about rescinding a policy, see, “AHIP’s Consumer-Centric Rescission Principles ” (sounds like double-speak):
http://oversight.house.gov/documents/20080717113640.pdf
Yeah Congress, please force private insurers on everyone,
http://institute.ourfuture.org/blog-entry/2009041403/do-you-know-what-you-are-getting-when-you-buy-health-insurance
Who pays your medical bills w/o rescission? The public.
I’m done ranting.
May 30th, 2009 at 10:51 pm
Texas was not part of the bubble because they still remember the S & L scandals, plus only Californians are stupid enough to pay up for houses built w/illegal labor.
I would also remind the Texans that think they would do better on their own that most people who are not Texans think you are a bunch of buffoons. Right or wrong that is the attitude. I’ve lived there and there is a point to be made for this position.
May 30th, 2009 at 10:52 pm
Tranzor, the body but not the face… i’m not kidding.
May 30th, 2009 at 11:06 pm
Karen: Well, I’m better looks but not the money. Where does that leave us?
May 30th, 2009 at 11:10 pm
you guys must be talking about kite boarding w/ the model- not wind surfing-
Karen- if that is you from the neck down- I’m impressed
May 30th, 2009 at 11:19 pm
It really is about economics and not politics. We don’t have competing political parties; we have competing economic factions. One faction wants more money to move up the ladder, and the other faction wants money to remain the same. Those are the choices we have right now. The only faction that wants money to move lower is shut out of the debate, which is a shame in a country in which ~ 2/3 of all economic activity originates with the consumer.
That’s because we have one party and it has two (relatively close) wings. We have the torture wing and the non-torture wing. The party which would have American troops come home is also shut out of the debate. If all American troops came home from all their overseas bases, we’d save hundreds of billions of dollars a year. Do we really need to keep troops stationed in Germany and in England and in Japan and Bosnia and in Italy and in France…yadda, yadda, yadda? What are we “protecting” them from? Themselves? I’d much rather spend that money–if we have it at all–on American projects which enchance life in America.
What we really need, more than anything, is a new description of economics. It should start with how we keep score–the monetary system. Who will issue the money, how will it be valued, who will be responsible for its worth? (We already know the answer to some of these questions: The responsible party is the US taxpayer, who, when the bottom fell out, was forced to put a new bottom under the monetary load of the nation. )
More than that, we need a political party that isn’t beholden to the money powers in America. I don’t know how that can come about, but if the past is any indication, this thingy you’re looking at right now will be a major part of the solution.
May 30th, 2009 at 11:25 pm
Won’t join?
Heck, the beer is cold, the rhetoric is pointless, the blood pressure rises…
Why, it’s almost like Texas – OU weekend without the Texas State Fair…
You don’t know what you are missing out on. It’s more fun that Best Little Whorehouse in Texas…
Ooh I love to dance a little sidestep, now they see me now they don’t… — The Sidestep
Barry, with your financial ramblings, they’d love to invite you down, pay you $20G for a speech, but now you’ve gone and ruined it. The best part would have been they’d have never known your position, but dang it, you went and wrote it down.
May 30th, 2009 at 11:39 pm
If New York and California represent the standard for measuring success, I think Texas and Texans fare pretty well………..
The issue shouldn’t be Texas, but the economy and what the federal government is doing to it…….
May 30th, 2009 at 11:40 pm
“The issue shouldn’t be Texas, but the economy and what the federal government is doing to it…….”
good point
May 30th, 2009 at 11:42 pm
Thanks
May 31st, 2009 at 12:03 am
How can you say such nasty things about someone supported by such intelligent people:
http://www.rickperry.org/palin-letter
He’s a real piece of work. In the pocket of a homebuilder named Perry (no relation). He established a commission that anyone with a complaint about a home builder has to file with and let them screw around and then deny the complaint instead of being able to go to court. You can guess who’s ont he commission.
And then there’s Texas kids have had to learn creationism because he appoints religious fanatics to the education board.
This current session of the legislature has accomplished nothing because the Republicans were so hell bent on passing a voter id bill that they put it in front of all other legislation, like health insurance for kids and unemployment insurance. But the Dems had enough votes to block the bill and so they’ve all been sitting up there looking at each other for a month.
Perry was elected by a plurality last time between a moderate Republican who went independent and the Democrat. He’s aiming the same way again, appealing to the wingnuts, of which there are plenty in the rural areas.
He was re-elected last time with a plurality and is following the
May 31st, 2009 at 12:04 am
Tranzor, too funny… since i not don’t need the money, i think we are good! and my face is fine; just not 20-something like the rest of me, lol…
May 31st, 2009 at 12:04 am
Whoops, bad editing there. Sorry
May 31st, 2009 at 12:16 am
Okay, I got in a little music discussion earlier… everyone needs to turn the lights down and the volume UP and listen to this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f64XZRRs0jA
May 31st, 2009 at 12:30 am
Texas is spending the money because they have to pay for it whether or not they take it. I’m sure that if the residents were given a choice of passing and getting a deduction for the stimulus that they would take it.
May 31st, 2009 at 12:31 am
Mike in Nola:
Plurality? Didn’t Perry win with like 39% of the vote? It was a four way contest I believe. Between Perry, Kinky Friedman(yes, that is correct), some Democrat named Bell and Scott McClellan(Bush’s Press Sec. before Tony Snow)’s mother.
May 31st, 2009 at 12:32 am
Texas, heh.
If that’s the way you want it, that’s the way it should be. I’m sure y’all will do just fine going it alone. Houston in the spring – I can almost smell the gas. Good luck to you. Don’t come a’knockin when the next hurricane blows through. I’m sure you will understand that you won’t be part of NAFTA or on the receiving end of MFN trading benefits – what with the treason, and all.
True story:
The baddest-assed MF I ever met was a 5’7″, 135 lb., dude from a town called Riverdale, in the not-so-Texas state of Maryland. In the late ’70s, Dude moved to Texas while on the run from the law (seems to be an irrational, but popular thing to do, among those dodging the law). One day, while working for the railroad sanding boxcars with jet propelled pecan shells (of all things), our hero got on the bad side of a big, bad old Texas native who didn’t much mind picking on a skinny little fellow from up north. According to the story, and I have no reason to doubt it, Texas guy was wearing boots with steer heads stitched on them.
Anyway, Texas hombre hauls off and slaps our hero in the face. I don’t know if you’ve ever been slapped by a full grown man, or if you’ve ever seen such a slapping happen, but it can open up a wicked cut, and it did, on the smaller man’s nose. Our northern brother (who, I have to tell you, was no one to be pushing around, despite his diminutive stature), having suffered both public humiliation and painful injury, swung around and punched the big Texan square in the snot box — landing him hard on his ass. Next, he went to his tool box and retrieved a 4′ long aluminum level, came back to where the big Texan was trying to pull himself together, and hit Ol’ Tex square in the forehead with it. Like to killed him. Spent the next 18 months in a Texas prison. And the moral of the story is: Never mess with anyone from Riverdale, Maryland — even if you are a Texan in Texas.
Epilogue: Little skinny dude left Texas, resettled with his wife and kids in Virginia, got straight, got a job, bought a double-wide, watched his kids graduate and become professionals, became a grandfather, got and survived a pretty bad case of cancer, and is now living the best part of his life.
To this day, I wouldn’t recommend messing with him, though.
May 31st, 2009 at 12:37 am
spectacular story, marcus.. i believe every word! tough is tough, doesn’t matter where you are born.
May 31st, 2009 at 12:49 am
Thanks, karen (it is true, too).
May 31st, 2009 at 12:56 am
Texas will never secede from the US, so you can quit worrying about that. Texans will be the first to defend this country from aggressors. Taken as a whole, Texans aren’t stupid, but are colorful. Texans have a strong sense of right and wrong and are very independent. Texans don’t look to the government to solve the majority of their problems, and don’t like the rest of the country telling them how to run their state, especially those that aren’t doing such a good job of running theirs. For all of you who profess to believe in diversity, you should think about accepting Texans for their differences instead of criticizing those differences.
Now, can we please get back to how the federal government is selling us down the river?
May 31st, 2009 at 12:58 am
Calvin: I think that’s what plurality means. Here’s the low down:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Texas_Governor_Election
I forget Kinky although he is not easily forgotten. He never really had a chance.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinky_Friedman
May 31st, 2009 at 1:36 am
I’d love to go to a teaparty…
but
I JUST CAN’T STAND BEING AROUND IDIOTS
May 31st, 2009 at 1:40 am
And why are they idots?
May 31st, 2009 at 2:28 am
A few people already mentioned it, but Perry was elected with 39% of the vote. He doesn’t speak for most Texans. He definitely doesn’t speak for me. But I think it’s just a political move anyway. There’s an election in 2010 and most people think he is going to be battling it out with Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison for the Republican spot, so he’s probably trying to separate himself from politics in DC so he can use it against her. There was an article a week back in the Dallas Morning News that said about the same thing.
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/opinion/columnists/wmckenzie/stories/DN-mckenzie_0526edi.State.Edition1.2d46e28.html
May 31st, 2009 at 7:37 am
I’m trying to work out the logic of this post.
The author, writing a book about Bailout Nation, declines to join an organization which objects to the very subject of his book, because apparently Gov. Perry of Texas is percieved to be an idiot. Or something.
Perhaps the author can offer an alternative to ‘partisan politics’ as a means to change the course of the financial attitudes of the current and past administrations which have led to the mess we are in now? It is possible that the Tea Party movement could be non partisan, if you could in fact cobble together a group of fiscally conservative progressives.
That might not be as easy as it seems, however.
Over at Naked Capitalism, they were promoting some group that was based on progressive ideals to counter the Tea Parties, their central goal was the nationalization of the big banks in this country. So there you have the difference in philosophy between the two groups in this country. One group agitating for less government overall, one agitating for more government overall.
This site remains blessedly free from the normal political backstabbing that routinely takes place on the interweb, so my point here is not to turn this into a political science forum.
However, it would be wise not to call someone’s IQ into question when engaged in the same type of logical lunacy yourself.
May 31st, 2009 at 7:48 am
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/pimcos-gross-boom-times-are-over
Pimco’s Gross takes bleak view
“Whether or not you like it, whether or not you endorse it, get used to this,” Gross told the audience.
In light of this new reality, investors should look for stable income from their investments, rather than reaching for returns.
“This is not a bond thing,” he said. “Companies like Procter & Gamble /quotes/comstock/13*!pg/quotes/nls/pg (PG 51.94, -0.65, -1.24%) and Coca Cola Co. /quotes/comstock/13*!ko/quotes/nls/ko (KO 49.16, +2.26, +4.82%) are good, stable companies.”
Gross also said, with certainty, that the dollar will lose its reserve status. “We simply have too much debt,” he said.
Couldn’t get the grass cut yesterday…tractor on the blink..easier day today…
May 31st, 2009 at 7:55 am
Think the tea party bash was way off base– Since when is freedom to assemble ‘idiotic’?
The fact is this administration is using the economic crises and the unpopularity of Bush to literally transform the fabric of this nation–and yes people are concerned about how the Feds are overstepping what the Founding Fathers and the Constitution set forth.
Read the oath of a federal judge some time, and tell me where in that clause it says “empathy” is a valid way to interpret the law of the land, let alone, be a criteria for a Supreme Court Justice? That’s called judicial legislating from one’s personal “bench”…
My God, even the Russian propaganda machine get’s it–this you have to read. Sadly–all true [of course Putin did the same thing as Obama is doing in Russia, IMO, if looked at through the lens of our different histories, cultural DNA etc. in concentrating power centrally]
http://english.pravda.ru/opinion/columnists/107459-0/
May 31st, 2009 at 8:13 am
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090530/ap_on_re_us/us_stress_map_sun_belt_sunset;_ylt=AieaRm1iibA9NFt23QKJtHuyBhIF;_ylu=X3oDMTNkYms1N3Y0BGFzc2V0Ay9hcC8yMDA5MDUzMC9hcF9vbl9yZV91cy91c19zdHJlc3NfbWFwX3N1bl9iZWx0X3N1bnNldARjcG9zAzMEcG9zAzMEc2VjA3luX3RvcF9zd
Has economic twilight fallen on nation’s Sun Belt?
“Some cities — Las Vegas, Phoenix, Fort Myers are good examples — hitched their floats to housing bubbles and got caught up in development that depended largely on, well, development itself, rather than sustainable, scalable, productive industry, economic analysts say.”
I found this yesterday, and it was reproduced on the Prudent Bear this morning…about economic trends..I found it fairly poorly thought out as the author lumps everything south of Oregon and Kentucky as “the Sun Belt”…a term I have always thought implied much of the old south.
Arizona, Las Vegas…many of the desert areas mentioned I have thought were inherently unstable due to water access…and this goes for California too. There are inherent instabilities, too, with Florida or Gulf Coast areas that are hurricane prone, but in general I deal with many and varied types of “snowbirds” at the salt mine everyday, and these people will never go back to say, Buffalo. It is just not going to happen.
I would agree on the emphasis on education cited though…education costs will be an unknown in the coming years..everywhere..
May 31st, 2009 at 8:18 am
Kstills, thank you for your logical and intellectual thoughts. That’s a bit of a relief from some of the more “colorful” comments offered so far, including those of the author. I, for one, believe this discussion might have been much richer had we been able to focus on the merits of federal government spending and taxation rather than whether or not Texas has worthy politicians, or whether or not there might have been some political influence by those participating in the Tea Parties. I thought this site was primarily a discussion regarding markets and economics. How does it degenerate into petty political name calling? There are plenty of mindless places one can go to if that’s all we want to do.
May 31st, 2009 at 8:30 am
meet the new boss- same as the old boss- or should I say worse than the old boss-
welcome to the brave new world- where the USA detains people indefinitely for thought crimes- is it Obama or O’Brian that we elected-
I love Big Brother
bosshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6-4wPVwNEM
May 31st, 2009 at 8:32 am
sorry here’s the link- a must watch
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6-4wPVwNEM
May 31st, 2009 at 8:54 am
yes, ahab. It is Animal Farm now.
“Like all of Napoleon’s speeches, it was short and to the point. He too, he said, was happy that the period of misunderstanding was at an end. For a long time there had been rumours-circulated, he had reason to think, by some malignant enemy-that there was something subversive and even revolutionary in the outlook of himself and his colleagues. They had been credited with attempting to stir up rebellion among the animals on neighbouring farms. Nothing could be further from the truth! Their sole wish, now and in the past, was to live at peace and in normal business relations with their neighbours. This farm which he had the honour to control, he added, was a co-operative enterprise. The title-deeds, which were in his own possession, were owned by the pigs jointly.”
We own GM tomorrow…
May 31st, 2009 at 9:04 am
Great Link ahab
I’m hoping for the best, but I took the “O” off my car. In 2003, I switched from Republican to Democrat.
Hoping for the best
Re: Teaxas
If a Texan gives you any lip, just threaten to cut Alaska in half and make it the third largest state.
May 31st, 2009 at 9:19 am
One other thing, focusing in economics, not politics..this is from Wikepedia, about Andrew Jackson’s fight against the Second National Bank of the United States, but if you replace it with Goldman Sachs…how does it read?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Bank_of_the_United_States
“By the early 1830s, President Jackson had come to thoroughly dislike the Second Bank of the United States because of its fraud and corruption. Jackson then had an investigation done on the Bank which he said established “beyond question that this great and powerful institution had been actively engaged in attempting to influence the elections of the public officers by means of its money.”
…just to this observer, but it seems Goldman has been more successful than the pikers Jackson finally closed down….
May 31st, 2009 at 9:23 am
So, let me see if I understand the essence of the solution to our current economic problems…….Democratic party is good. Republican party is bad…….problem fixed. Is that about it???? Wow! That was easy. So, I guess we can all declare ourselves rich again and take a vacation. Gosh, I didn’t know that solving tough problems was this easy…………… I suggest we take another look. I believe both are part of the problem and both need to be held accountable. Spending and taxation is a speeding locomotive that’s headed for a train wreck in the not so distant future. Which party is helping us manage this problem successfully?…………..answer; neither is doing nearly enough. The choice between bad and worse is not a very good choice. While many want to celebrate the recent shift in political power in Washington, the locomotive is speeding up, and we’re on board.
May 31st, 2009 at 9:27 am
I love how, when Bush was wasting money hand over fist, the silence from so-called conservatives was deafening. But now that their policies have failed and their sorry ass has been kicked out, all of a sudden spending is a problem. The smell coming off these tea parties is rank hypocrisy.
I hate Obama’s economic policies as much as anyone. But that’s because they are a continuation of Republican policies (and Democratic policies in previous administrations — I’ll grant you that much). Geithner is Paulson’s clone. Obama’s problem is that he is not leftist enough. Somebody should write a book. Oh wait
May 31st, 2009 at 9:30 am
Anewe2, why do you think Obama is not “leftist” enough? How could a more leftist approach help us get out of the current economic mess quicker?
May 31st, 2009 at 9:35 am
@ B in T
agreed- makes me want to put my marbles back in my pocket and go home- investing in this climate is akin to Alice’s Wonderland-
might just look at the likes of KO and MCD- may not shoot up- but shouldn’t plummet either
May 31st, 2009 at 9:36 am
Anewe2, also I’d like to ask you “if Obama’s policies are the same as Bush’s, why is his administration any better than Bush’s?”
May 31st, 2009 at 9:44 am
‘The smell coming off these tea parties is rank hypocrisy.”
no doubt- however- people have the right- last I checked-to demonstrate against whatever they choose- if you are strictly partisan you are a fool-
outrage over the bailout of the banks comes from the right and left- it is a populist issue- and to look back and say well . . . they were just as bad . . . tells me where you stand-
with the the current administration right or wrong
May 31st, 2009 at 9:47 am
Ahab, I think you’re on to something. Thanks.
May 31st, 2009 at 9:58 am
I would disagree with some of the bloggers about political name-calling. This problem we are in is bigger than republicans or democrats. You hated Reagan? I didn’t but I thought his idea that deficits didn’t matter was stupid. Liked a lot of other things, though. I didn’t like Clinton’s catering to polls, but I did like his fiscal responsibility. I was often confused about the reasons for the Iraq War, and the coziness of George Bush with big business. I could understand going to free Kuwait and the first Gulf War, but not the second.
Here, I am very concerned that we are permanently heading down the road to socialism. There is an overt push towards bigger government, bigger taxes on everyone, less individual freedom. You may feel that because there is a crisis, this is warranted, but like the Animal Farm post above, this will be difficult to undo once it is done. You like the story of socialist Norway..how they are doing comparatively well compared with the rest of us? Without their oil revenue, they would be on the other end of the scale…Like our own Alaska with oil, and no manufacturing base.
Republicans and democrats alike contributed to the mess we are in. Deficit spending was always bad, but now it is more sinister, in that in the name of coming to our rescue, the back-end loading of these socialist ideas will limit us even more severely in the coming years….see California circa 2009…
It is not about a political party…it is about good decision making and a loss of political will..
May 31st, 2009 at 10:00 am
Multimillionaire New Yorker bloggers or wallstreet types in general , have ANY insight , feelings, for the rest of the country. They have already proven this.TEA parties or more violent demonstrations will escalate. I hope the latter start in NYC and D.C. and swallow the dumps.
May 31st, 2009 at 10:04 am
NO feelings ment above.
May 31st, 2009 at 10:10 am
Barry,
I do not think the Tea Party syndrome is nearly as partisan as you believe. Around the country crowds have been openly booing and heckling Republicans that voted for the stimulus. That said the Republican party is attempting to co opt the process, but most of the protesters seem to recall the disgusting level of spending that occurred when the party controlled congress. I do find it odd, the way the media is ducking or subverting coverage. Cindy Sheehan’s band of 20 in Crawford was worthy of daily updates; thousands descending on townhalls around the country catch a page 19 mention, excepting Fox of course. Then CNN and MSNBC go on gigglefests re “teabagging.” I haven’t the slightest if this has legs, if is does I believe it threatens incumbents more than it favors the republican party.
May 31st, 2009 at 10:21 am
Perry and the Tea Party is a classic politican’s move; Run to the front of a crowd and pretend to be their leader.
Opposition to the Tea Party movement is a reactionary dead end. Remember Gandhi’s rules, “First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.”
May 31st, 2009 at 10:26 am
in defense of BR-
he is pretty much a straight shooter and has been at the forefront in bringing attention to the TBTF banks and bailouts- obviously-
read his book for crying out loud-
I do not look at this blog as a right or left thing- but is analysis of what should be good public policy-
as in- when BR pitched nationalization for the TBTF banks- it was done in the interest of expediency- and as a temporary measure- to stop the carnage- and remove the people who drove their banks into insolvency and threatened the economies of the entire world-
makes sense-
it is one thing to be for free enterprise- another entirely to promote it when the people running the free enterprise drive it over the cliff and require government backing to stay in business
May 31st, 2009 at 10:41 am
Hey, did any of you notice the editor(s) deleted that crazy multi-language post referencing Richard Branson.
Bruce, I read some of Bill Gross’s comments during the week… I have such a dislike for that man now and I once read his monthly outlooks religiously…
Interestingly, MS put a report out this week called “30 for 2013″ with the key line “Long live buy and hold!”
“The main criterion is sustainability — of competitive
position, business model, pricing power, cost efficiency,
and growth. We are taking a longer-term view. We are
not asserting that these stocks are all ‘buys’; there was no
prerequisite that they be rated Overweight. ”
Even more interesting, BAC and Wells Fargo are on the list.
May 31st, 2009 at 10:44 am
Funny how any criticism of the the wingnuts brings a deluge trying to shout you down. The Republicans learned well from the Brownshirts.
May 31st, 2009 at 10:47 am
I wonder why- it made so much sense
May 31st, 2009 at 10:49 am
Mike, I’m curious. Who on this site is trying to “shout down criticism of the wingnuts?” What do you consider “shouting down”? I guess I can infer from your comment who you thing the “wingnuts” are?
May 31st, 2009 at 10:50 am
my comment @ 10:47 meant for Karen- Mike snuck a post in before me
May 31st, 2009 at 10:56 am
Ahab. Yeah, I got it… and lol at your comment. I’m now wondering if George47 was serious about Barry’s WTF being unprofessional.. I think I missed a lot by going to sleep last night… hard to catch up in the morning..
May 31st, 2009 at 10:57 am
I do believe the Tea Parties started as a mostly non-partisan ground swell of concern about the spiraling spending and bail outs. It was quickly co-opted by some Republican operatives and Fox news. I liked the commenter who talked about Perry et al running to the front of the crowd and acting like the leader. Good metaphor.
I, like many others, was soured on the whole thing by Fox News’ over the top (as usual) slanted coverage that tried to twist the whole thing into a very partisan affair. The quickly discredited the whole thing and ruined it’s power by and influence by allowing it to be dismissed as just a Republican attack on the administration. Democrats and Independents who would have liked to join in the effort to send a message to D.C. were turned off, and the press secretary could easily paint the whole thing as a right wing fringe job.
Unfortunate as the administration marches on in catering to the banking industry while “Rome burns.”
May 31st, 2009 at 10:57 am
Karen,
I also dislike Bill Gross…of course never met him, but his look on tv is one of something sinister under the surface…I just can’t explain in better than that…maybe the way Gordon Gekko appeared in Wall Street.
That said, he is the biggest bond guy in the world. I posted it because of that…not his personality..
May 31st, 2009 at 10:59 am
I can only say this to all the hypocrites. Where were the Republican tea parties when Reagan and George W ran up the deficits? Oh, I forgot, deficits don’t matter.
May 31st, 2009 at 11:03 am
Mudpuppy:
The best change in the last election would have been Ron Paul. I am a fiscal conservative, and liked and disliked elements of all the presidents since Reagan. I understand why some desire the policies of Obama. But I think this transformation to socialism will end badly.
don’t you?
May 31st, 2009 at 11:05 am
Bruce, while Bill Gross may have some intelligence left.. he got too rich and too removed from the world just like all the other men at the top. Also, his prominence has more to do with being in the right field at the right time. He doesn’t even actually write those outlooks… further, now he just comes out and states the obvious instead of being ahead of the curve. I’m not criticizing you for posting that link, however, I almost did it myself on Friday… with the caveat that he wasn’t telling us anything we didn’t know. As for myself… I will continue to look ahead and around for opportunities, not just collect 4% or whatever on my money.
May 31st, 2009 at 11:10 am
Onlooker Says:
“soured on the whole thing by Fox News’ over the top (as usual) slanted coverage that tried to twist the whole thing into a very partisan affair. The quickly discredited the whole thing and ruined it’s power by and influence by allowing it to be dismissed as just a Republican attack on the administration.”
bingo- very orchestrated and not a grassroots feel to it- made it hard to take seriously- however- on the plus side- it brought out some intellectual luminaries to pass judgment-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IeRxVMpyDg
May 31st, 2009 at 11:17 am
ahab
Exactly. This whole thing turned into another partisan pissing contest with those like Jean what’s her name spouting off against Rush Limbaugh et al. And so it has died an ignominious death (so far), dismissed a lurid affair. Very frustrating as some people really want a new voice to express their concerns over the course of events.
May 31st, 2009 at 11:32 am
Mudpuppy, if all the hypocrites were in one political party, that would make things a lot easier. We wouldn’t have to think any more, would we? Remember, Bush lost a lot of his base’s support in his last term because of his lack of fiscal discipline. I guess we’ll probably disagree on this point, but I’m convinced the fiscal problem our government is having is much more associated with our undisciplined spending (which is largely the responsibility of Congress), than in collecting taxes. I don’t think it matters how much money the government collects from us, they’ll have no problem finding ways of spending it. And of course, the more money they take out of the productive private sector, the more the economy is constrained.
Karen, I was initially offended a little by Barry’s use of the “WTF” expression when talking about Texas politicians. Maybe I over reacted, but I’ve lived in Texas for many years and have come to really appreciate the state and its colorful people and culture. I’ve also experienced a number of times when people from other parts of the country have “looked down their nose” at Texans. That gets old just like anyone feels who experiences one form of discrimination or another over time. I didn’t mean to put a damper on everyone else’s fun, however.
Take care.
May 31st, 2009 at 11:42 am
George47-
“I don’t think it matters how much money the government collects from us, they’ll have no problem finding ways of spending it.”
undoubtedly- however- even without the taxes they will spend- deficit spending- the country will have to make a choice as to what is important- as California is finding out for itself right now-
Karen?
May 31st, 2009 at 11:44 am
Potential root cause for the low IQs:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/31/science/earth/31waste.html?_r=1&hp
It is a “virtuous” cycle where lower IQs lead to more business decisions to import hazardous materials into Texas until an equilibrium is reached where Texans are unable to muster enough brain cells to even make bad decisions.
May 31st, 2009 at 11:45 am
Ahab,
I agree. I’m just glad our states can’t print money like the federal government does……..
May 31st, 2009 at 12:02 pm
DMR, I hardly know where to start in response to your post. First, the waste is going to “New Mexico” not Texas. Secondly, the EPA has approved this storage. Finally, who has the lower IQ (as if that really had anything to do with anything), the one (NM) who stores this waste for money or the one (NY) who generates it in the first place and has to pay to dig it up and ship it to another place to get rid of it? If New Mexico doesn’t take it, what would you propose doing with it? Also, would you please tell me why the NY Times feels it’s important to try to link GWB and Rick Perry with the company that owns the property that this waste material is going to be buried? This strikes me as an unnecessary partisan attack. I thought this paper was supposed to be an objective, unbiased source of information. I’m getting disgusted…….
May 31st, 2009 at 12:55 pm
George47 Says: http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/05/bailouts-focus-on-economics-not-politics/comment-page-3/#comment-178001
Boy, ain’t that the truth. Schwarzenegger recently said something like, “we can’t just print money like the federal govt.” It’s a good thing too because you just know if they could, they would, to avoid making the tough decisions. As would many other states, it’s not just a CA thing.
That’s what’s gotten us to this point; our ability to keep issuing more and more debt, and now that that’s becoming a problem we’re just going to print money. Anything to keep from facing our problems, our vices, our immaturity (children want everything right now and don’t think about the future), etc. And on and on. Rant ad nauseum.
May 31st, 2009 at 1:22 pm
Even the idiots and hypocrites are bigger in Texas.
May 31st, 2009 at 1:53 pm
George47, the dump IS in Texas, not in NM. It is owned by Harold Simmons, whose cash paid for the Swift boat ads and the William Ayers ad. I don’t think the NY Times is trying to associate him. He has prominently associated himself with both GWB and Perry and proudly wears the partisan badge.
You’re missing the point of my comment, though. Moving toxic sludge into your neighborhood may be approved by the EPA (a fine government agency, I’m sure) but the local folks trying to run small businesses like florists are the ones who are impacted. The money he’s making is not by increasing the productive capacity of the land he owns with capital he invests in it but is made by robbing unmarketed public goods (clean air/water) of the entire neighborhood.It’s the textbook definition of a “negative externality” from Econ 101 :)
Don’t get me wrong. Such decisions are not just the domain of the loony right. Obama’s not understanding why the Senate voted 90-6 to prevent their constituents’ children from walking past Chemical Ali’s friends on their way to school fits in the same category.
May 31st, 2009 at 3:18 pm
I lived in Austin, Texas for a couple of years. They have a saying there: It’s not the heat, it’s the stupidity.
May 31st, 2009 at 4:06 pm
DMR,
I went back and reread the article and discovered that you are correct. The waste disposal location is just inside Texas, a few miles East of Eunice, New Mexico. I apologize for that error on my part. However, I still don’t see what Mr. Simmons’ political donations has to do with this waste disposal deal. I still think the NYT made the comment to infer something negative and possibly sinister in this deal. It seems to me they are trying to make something out of nothing just to support their conclusion that there must be something wrong with this deal.
I’m fairly familiar with this part of Texas. It is very sparsely populated (probably no more than 1 person per 5 sq miles I would guess), very dry, almost no trees, no homes or businesses that I recall on the Texas side of the border for miles, a few oil and gas wells, and a few potash mines in the vicinity. This may be about as perfect a place to dispose of this waste as one will find anywhere in North America, considering that no place is perfect. So, I ask again “if it’s not disposed of here, where would you prefer?” Do you think New York can find a more suitable place inside its borders? That would be OK with us.
May 31st, 2009 at 4:14 pm
Mannwich, Nemo,
Thanks for those very intelligent remarks. You’ve added so much to the discussion.
If Texas is such a terrible place, why do you think folks keep moving here from all those other “hot beds of intelligence” that you think are so much better? People are voting with their feet.
May 31st, 2009 at 4:23 pm
they move here because its cheap. until they get their first electric bill that is of course. we had .24 per kilowatt hour electricity. and we generate it basically the same way as Oklahoma does, and they have .08 per kilowatt hour electricity. and we also have the lowest income of the major states. but we do get the lowest land prices, which probably explains the low housing prices. and maybe why we didn’t get to involved with that housing bubble. after all, if you don’t make much to begin with, you rarely will bid up a house. but thats a relative term here, we did get a mini-housing boom, its just wasn’t as big as else where. we did that experiment with tort reform every one seemed to enamored with. its been a big failure too, if it was meant keep health care costs down (turned out later the legislature had the insurance companies testify under oath. where they admitted that it was 2% of their costs).
May 31st, 2009 at 5:17 pm
Every ‘progressive’ wants an explanation for conservatives not protesting Reagan or Bush’s deficit spending, I suppose because for some reason that will de-legitimize the conservative critique of the current outlandish spending and make their own support of it somehow less odious. I use the term odious because I assume they all realize how fundamentally unsound the policy they are supporting is, however they are supporting the party, not the policy.
So I’ll answer for myself. I was born into a world of fiat currency and asset inflation, so since I did not study economics I assumed that this was how fiscal and monetary policy should work. The same time that I came to realize that deficits do matter, that I was living at the end of a giant ponzi scheme run by the Government, perpetuated by both parties. I ceased being a Republican (again, if there are any fiscally conservative Democrats they remain well hidden) and began looking for a party with which I could identify.
The ‘Tea Party’ is really the only option at this point in time.
May 31st, 2009 at 5:37 pm
Willid3,
Sorry to hear you’re paying $0.24/kwh for electricity. Most of the offers in our area run in the range of $0.10-$0.12/kwh. Check out this website to see if you can find a less expensive provider: http://www.powertochoose.org/_content/_compare/compare.aspx.
Sounds like you’re not all that happy living in Texas either. Are you researching other places which may be more suitable to your preferences and life style?
May 31st, 2009 at 5:42 pm
Kstills,
Since you’re concerned with budget deficits, does it make any difference to you whether the deficit is closed with tax increases or spending cuts? I’m interested to know where you come down on this important point. It’s been my observation that Republicans preach spending and tax reductions (even though no one ever seems able to reduce important federal spending), while Democrats preach tax increases to balance the budget (even though there never seems to be enough revenue to cover all the spending our nobel representatives come up with). Thanks.
May 31st, 2009 at 6:01 pm
George47, we did that comparative site thing. its really a hoax on Texas. as i am sure you know, several of the cheap suppliers collapsed last year. and as i am sure you also know how those who used them were treated. they ended up with even worse rates. for at least 6 months if not longer. part of our deregulation scam.
at the moment not going any where.
just not impressed as so many others seem to be. i have lived here for about 40 years. it used to be alot more friendly to consumers. but not any more.
and its always been a cheap place to live. but thats because nobody really make any income (except those at the top).
and nobody can sell much if you are over priced, and underpaid
May 31st, 2009 at 6:33 pm
I am a fiscal conservative.
I believe in spending cuts. I believe in a greater role for State and Local Governments, and less of a role for the Federal Government. Money that we pay to Washington should not be returned conditional on our behaving in a certain way.
Money we pay to Washington should not be coming back to the States at all, as any money the States need they should levy for themselves.
May 31st, 2009 at 7:28 pm
Late to the thread … but felt compelled to post … with anecdotal experience. Take it for what its worth.
I attended a tea party in Dallas (my first protest ever). There were several thousand folks (I think the DPD estimated three to five thousand) attending. The event coordinators were explicit about not allowing speakers from either party. This has been a value upheld (so far) in follow up mail list traffic. They seem to have a pretty narrow focus, so its not a broad platform in a traditional political party sense.
The speakers were pretty good. One speaker was a guy who escaped from Castro’s Cuba (he was very old), runs a Cristian ministry of some sort, and has a son that went on to attend law school and argued a case before the supreme court. There was a lady who had a pretty compelling story (she worked her way out of a pretty bad poverty situation). Pretty feel good stuff overall.
Incidentally the lady I mentioned has a follow up YouTube to a rant posted above.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuDAU4qQUCA
The OP who said that politicians run to the front of the pack and pretend to be the leader hit the nail on the head. From my experience, there are a lot of independent and republican flavored attendees, but much less so as far as democrats. The republicans have to get ahead of this crowd and/or discredit the movement to prevent further damage to their party. This is what you are seeing in the MSM.
This is probably positive news for the democratic party, as the republican base is really starting to fracture into several distinct groups (religious, fiscal, and neo conservatives) that aren’t necessarily aligned anymore. From my perspective, many republicans were unhappy with Bush (big government conservative) and its coming apart at the seams with 2+ trillion dollar annual deficits.
I am a fiscal conservative. The poster who suggested that all republicans were 100% groovy with Bush is making a pretty broad generalization; one that certainly doesn’t apply to me. But the world is much more simple if we paint it black and white rather than considering all the shades of grey in between. The point that conservatives should have spoken up more is valid.
In closing, my state and local government is a clusterf*^k, but all I can do is vote for my favorite Menendez brother each election cycle. In the case of the last state election, that was Kinky. The next election it sure as hell wont be Kay Bailout Hutchinson. Or Rick Perry.
P.S. The whole succession topic is just a scheme to detract from the core issue driving tea parties, which is out of control deficit spending and the conversion of our market system to socialism/fascism. While I believe that option was baked into the documents that joined Texas to the Union (little known historical fact – at least I recall that from my Texas history class), **BUT** I dont think for one second it will ever have any real traction, so why spend so much time talking about it.
CrazyCooter
June 1st, 2009 at 4:23 am
“Mannwich, Nemo,
Thanks for those very intelligent remarks. You’ve added so much to the discussion.
If Texas is such a terrible place, why do you think folks keep moving here from all those other “hot beds of intelligence” that you think are so much better? People are voting with their feet.”
Hey, I chose to live in Texas myself for a few years, and I liked it there. But you get to hear plenty of stupid blowhard talk down there, so much that a lot of Texans themselves are sick of hearing it and make jokes about it. Stupid blowhard talk like secession and Texas’s supposedly special status as a one-time independent republic (for all of 6 years, until they ran into the arms of the United States, since they knew they couldn’t defend themselves against Mexico).
Chicago, where I grew up, has been plenty corrupt for a long time, and people there make jokes about it. Texas, where I lived for a while, is full of boastful preening fools, and people there make jokes about it. That doesn’t make either Chicago or Texas a terrible place. They’re both wonderful places. Don’t be so defensive.
June 1st, 2009 at 4:49 am
By the way, most people in Chicago have nothing to do with corruption, and most people in Texas are not fools. Chicago just has more than its fair share of corruption (hence Blagojevich joining a long lineup of Illinois governors in deep legal trouble), and Texas just has more than its fair share of fools (hence W., Gov. Hair-Do, Phil Gramm, Tom Delay, etc.).
~~~
BR: I couldn’t agree more!
That’s why one of the new offices we are opening is in Texas (we are looking at Dallas and Houston)
June 1st, 2009 at 7:51 am
No one will probably read this– but scanning the remarks it amazes me that no one has picked up on the REAL issue–Keynesian policy did not work in in the 30′s and won’t today.
Yes I realize the Administration and Uncle Ben say ‘Hoover didn’t do enough”–well FDR sure did! All “Keynesian”, the New Deal was. And we languished until WW II, DESPITE at the time being the world’s exporter [not importer], had no deficits and most of the gold… and now?
People really need to read. I don’t think much of the tea part folks know this either–probably just using could old fashion American common sense IMHO …
June 2nd, 2009 at 1:10 am
Nemo,
Sorry if I got a little overly sensitive in my defense of Texas, and thanks for the thoughtful explanation. I still disagree with you on nearly all points, but I think I can see it from your point of view a little better now. As I said, I believe most Texans are “colorful” not stupid, and most of those “fools” you mentioned are fairly well regarded down here. I’d guess that in your circle, conservatives may automatically be regarded as strange, but in Texas it’s usually the liberals that seem out of place. I’ve come to believe that where we live and who we associate with colors our perspective on political matters. I also believe most Americans have more in common than differences when they’re all laid out and examined. I believe we might do a lot better in communicating with each other if we kept that in mind and stopped throwing insults at each other just because we align with different political parties….Enough preaching for today.
Take care.