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	<title>Comments on: Green Shoots Turn Brown . . .</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/05/green-shoots-turn-brown/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/05/green-shoots-turn-brown/</link>
	<description>Macro Perspective on the Capital Markets, Economy, Geopolitics, Technology, and Digital Media</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 14 Feb 2012 17:38:10 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Mark E Hoffer</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/05/green-shoots-turn-brown/comment-page-3/#comment-171544</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark E Hoffer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 May 2009 16:39:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=26447#comment-171544</guid>
		<description>Andrew Jackson quotes:  
The bold effort the present (central) bank had made to control the government ... are but premonitions of the fate that await the American people should they be deluded into a perpetuation of this institution or the establishment of another like it. 

Andrew Jackson quotes:  
You are a den of vipers and thieves. I intend to rout you out, and by the grace of the Eternal God, will rout you out. 


Andrew Jackson quotes:  
Every man is equally entitled to protection by law; but when the laws undertake to add… artificial distinctions, to grant titles, gratuities, and exclusive privileges, to make the rich richer and the potent more powerful, the humble members of society -- the farmers, mechanics, and laborers -- who have neither the time nor the means of securing like favors to themselves, have a right to complain of the injustice of their government. 

Andrew Jackson quotes:  
Gentlemen, I have had men watching you for a long time and I am convinced that you have used the funds of the bank to speculate in the breadstuffs of the country. When you won, you divided the profits amongst you, and when you lost, you charged it to the bank. You tell me that if I take the deposits from the bank and annul its charter, I shall ruin ten thousand families. That may be true, gentlemen, but that is your sin! Should I let you go on, you will ruin fifty thousand families, and that would be my sin! You are a den of vipers and thieves. 

Andrew Jackson quotes:  
The brave man inattentive to his duty, is worth little more to his country than the coward who deserts her in the hour of danger. 

but, but, it&#039;s the 21stCentury, it&#039;s 2009, it&#039;s All-New, &quot;Whoocoodanode?&quot;

GMAFB--sell it to children and slaves.

http://quotes.liberty-tree.ca/quotes_by/andrew+jackson</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andrew Jackson quotes:<br />
The bold effort the present (central) bank had made to control the government &#8230; are but premonitions of the fate that await the American people should they be deluded into a perpetuation of this institution or the establishment of another like it. </p>
<p>Andrew Jackson quotes:<br />
You are a den of vipers and thieves. I intend to rout you out, and by the grace of the Eternal God, will rout you out. </p>
<p>Andrew Jackson quotes:<br />
Every man is equally entitled to protection by law; but when the laws undertake to add… artificial distinctions, to grant titles, gratuities, and exclusive privileges, to make the rich richer and the potent more powerful, the humble members of society &#8212; the farmers, mechanics, and laborers &#8212; who have neither the time nor the means of securing like favors to themselves, have a right to complain of the injustice of their government. </p>
<p>Andrew Jackson quotes:<br />
Gentlemen, I have had men watching you for a long time and I am convinced that you have used the funds of the bank to speculate in the breadstuffs of the country. When you won, you divided the profits amongst you, and when you lost, you charged it to the bank. You tell me that if I take the deposits from the bank and annul its charter, I shall ruin ten thousand families. That may be true, gentlemen, but that is your sin! Should I let you go on, you will ruin fifty thousand families, and that would be my sin! You are a den of vipers and thieves. </p>
<p>Andrew Jackson quotes:<br />
The brave man inattentive to his duty, is worth little more to his country than the coward who deserts her in the hour of danger. </p>
<p>but, but, it&#8217;s the 21stCentury, it&#8217;s 2009, it&#8217;s All-New, &#8220;Whoocoodanode?&#8221;</p>
<p>GMAFB&#8211;sell it to children and slaves.</p>
<p><a href="http://quotes.liberty-tree.ca/quotes_by/andrew+jackson" rel="nofollow">http://quotes.liberty-tree.ca/quotes_by/andrew+jackson</a></p>
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		<title>By: johnbougearel</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/05/green-shoots-turn-brown/comment-page-3/#comment-171537</link>
		<dc:creator>johnbougearel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 May 2009 16:27:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=26447#comment-171537</guid>
		<description>re: failing wall street mantra&#039;s ending in tears, 

The path we everyday Americans walk down now is our own veritable &quot;trail of tears&quot; v2.0 - forced upon us by the &quot;sharp knives&quot; in Washington and Wall Street.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>re: failing wall street mantra&#8217;s ending in tears, </p>
<p>The path we everyday Americans walk down now is our own veritable &#8220;trail of tears&#8221; v2.0 &#8211; forced upon us by the &#8220;sharp knives&#8221; in Washington and Wall Street.</p>
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		<title>By: I-Man</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/05/green-shoots-turn-brown/comment-page-3/#comment-171475</link>
		<dc:creator>I-Man</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 May 2009 14:00:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=26447#comment-171475</guid>
		<description>@pmorrisonfl:

on stops... real quick- stops should correlate to your position size above all else... not the trading of the vehicle.

It&#039;s easy to get caught up in the vehicle itself sometimes, but far more important to protect the capital that allowed you to drive it in the first place.

Happy trading, -I-Man</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@pmorrisonfl:</p>
<p>on stops&#8230; real quick- stops should correlate to your position size above all else&#8230; not the trading of the vehicle.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s easy to get caught up in the vehicle itself sometimes, but far more important to protect the capital that allowed you to drive it in the first place.</p>
<p>Happy trading, -I-Man</p>
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		<title>By: pmorrisonfl</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/05/green-shoots-turn-brown/comment-page-3/#comment-171448</link>
		<dc:creator>pmorrisonfl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 May 2009 09:59:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=26447#comment-171448</guid>
		<description>Cursive:  I read both your posts (missed the first until after I&#039;d said thank you to the others...), and thank you as well.   By my own limited experience, you speak the truth.  Stops, and trailing stops, be they 10%, 7%, 5% (is there a KSU-equivalent unit for this? Does it pair with the leverage of the ETF, if you go that route?) are certainly the first tweak to my present style, said with both a smile and a grimace.  
I figure even Elway himself wouldn&#039;t do so well if he didn&#039;t work out, practice or study the playbook.  I don&#039;t think I&#039;m Elway, or even NFL material, I just think I might do better serving my own interests than leaving it up to the managers of options 3, 6 and 11 on my 201(k)&#039;s fund menu.  But first I want to practice with a little pot of money that isn&#039;t committed to anything else.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cursive:  I read both your posts (missed the first until after I&#8217;d said thank you to the others&#8230;), and thank you as well.   By my own limited experience, you speak the truth.  Stops, and trailing stops, be they 10%, 7%, 5% (is there a KSU-equivalent unit for this? Does it pair with the leverage of the ETF, if you go that route?) are certainly the first tweak to my present style, said with both a smile and a grimace.<br />
I figure even Elway himself wouldn&#8217;t do so well if he didn&#8217;t work out, practice or study the playbook.  I don&#8217;t think I&#8217;m Elway, or even NFL material, I just think I might do better serving my own interests than leaving it up to the managers of options 3, 6 and 11 on my 201(k)&#8217;s fund menu.  But first I want to practice with a little pot of money that isn&#8217;t committed to anything else.</p>
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		<title>By: Cursive</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/05/green-shoots-turn-brown/comment-page-3/#comment-171442</link>
		<dc:creator>Cursive</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 May 2009 06:06:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=26447#comment-171442</guid>
		<description>@gregh

No one should ever, ever buy a leveraged ETF.  Having said that, 10% is nothing for FAZ.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@gregh</p>
<p>No one should ever, ever buy a leveraged ETF.  Having said that, 10% is nothing for FAZ.</p>
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		<title>By: gregh</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/05/green-shoots-turn-brown/comment-page-3/#comment-171432</link>
		<dc:creator>gregh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 May 2009 04:26:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=26447#comment-171432</guid>
		<description>@Cursive
7 to 10 % stop loss? Yikes that sounds high, what is your timeframe? -  if you are only right 50% of your buys, then you&#039;re depending on your correct calls to have 10% gains just to break even  (not including your trading fees if you&#039;re placing small bets)....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Cursive<br />
7 to 10 % stop loss? Yikes that sounds high, what is your timeframe? &#8211;  if you are only right 50% of your buys, then you&#8217;re depending on your correct calls to have 10% gains just to break even  (not including your trading fees if you&#8217;re placing small bets)&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: JasRas</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/05/green-shoots-turn-brown/comment-page-3/#comment-171428</link>
		<dc:creator>JasRas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 May 2009 04:08:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=26447#comment-171428</guid>
		<description>@ Cursive: Thanks.  Sometimes we have to look at things and think what it says about us and not what it says about the thing itself.  We (humans) are the one constant throughout centuries of events.  Our reactions now, are no different now than before.  Sure with communication at current speeds, info dispersion might change some things and compress actions, but it might not.  Maybe speed of info has more effect on amplitude of action.  Because regardless of how quickly the information comes, it is still hitting that same brick wall we call a skull.  But it hits more of them quicker.  Liquidity is greater now in many aspects and absorb the effects of info dispersion somewhat, but again, we are still in the mix with all our foibles.  So whether it is tulip bulbs, tea companies, robber barons in a guilded age, roaring 20&#039;s, opec, portfolio insurance, S&amp;Ls, Japanese real estate, Russian defaults, Thai Bahts, Year 2000, 9/11, 120% mortgages, subprime and CDS&#039;s...it&#039;s all rhymes.  Only the magnitude of the screw up has any relevancy to the amount of time it takes to work it out...  I&#039;d say this was a doozy--even adjusted for inflation.

Considering downside&#039;s knife cut is a more devastating cut, people should focus much more on downside avoidance than they generally do and much less on upside capture...  With humans being inherently optimistic, the upside usually can take care of itself.  The devil is in the downside, because we are innately positive in our outlook.

Always enjoy the discussion threads here... Barry&#039;s stringent patrol of the comments in his early days have reaped a pretty good community of participants...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Cursive: Thanks.  Sometimes we have to look at things and think what it says about us and not what it says about the thing itself.  We (humans) are the one constant throughout centuries of events.  Our reactions now, are no different now than before.  Sure with communication at current speeds, info dispersion might change some things and compress actions, but it might not.  Maybe speed of info has more effect on amplitude of action.  Because regardless of how quickly the information comes, it is still hitting that same brick wall we call a skull.  But it hits more of them quicker.  Liquidity is greater now in many aspects and absorb the effects of info dispersion somewhat, but again, we are still in the mix with all our foibles.  So whether it is tulip bulbs, tea companies, robber barons in a guilded age, roaring 20&#8242;s, opec, portfolio insurance, S&amp;Ls, Japanese real estate, Russian defaults, Thai Bahts, Year 2000, 9/11, 120% mortgages, subprime and CDS&#8217;s&#8230;it&#8217;s all rhymes.  Only the magnitude of the screw up has any relevancy to the amount of time it takes to work it out&#8230;  I&#8217;d say this was a doozy&#8211;even adjusted for inflation.</p>
<p>Considering downside&#8217;s knife cut is a more devastating cut, people should focus much more on downside avoidance than they generally do and much less on upside capture&#8230;  With humans being inherently optimistic, the upside usually can take care of itself.  The devil is in the downside, because we are innately positive in our outlook.</p>
<p>Always enjoy the discussion threads here&#8230; Barry&#8217;s stringent patrol of the comments in his early days have reaped a pretty good community of participants&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Mike C</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/05/green-shoots-turn-brown/comment-page-3/#comment-171418</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike C</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 May 2009 03:36:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=26447#comment-171418</guid>
		<description>@ben22

&lt;i&gt;Still no clue what to make of gold at this point. I don’t know that anyone really knows what to make of it.&lt;/i&gt;

FWIW, Richard Russell is very bullish on gold and pointed out the other day it had formed a massive inverse head and shoulders bottoming pattern.  We shall see, but I think it is getting ready for the next major upleg, but it would need to hold 850ish in my opinion.  A break below 850 would violate major support and the neckline</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ben22</p>
<p><i>Still no clue what to make of gold at this point. I don’t know that anyone really knows what to make of it.</i></p>
<p>FWIW, Richard Russell is very bullish on gold and pointed out the other day it had formed a massive inverse head and shoulders bottoming pattern.  We shall see, but I think it is getting ready for the next major upleg, but it would need to hold 850ish in my opinion.  A break below 850 would violate major support and the neckline</p>
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		<title>By: Cursive</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/05/green-shoots-turn-brown/comment-page-3/#comment-171416</link>
		<dc:creator>Cursive</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 May 2009 03:27:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=26447#comment-171416</guid>
		<description>@pmorrisonfl

I posted something earlier, but it went to Blog Heaven.  Everything AT, LB, ben22, and I-man said is spot-on.  I will add this: Take it from a reluctant trader - it&#039;s very, very hard.  The baseball analogy is very appropriate.  Even the best hitters only bat 0.300.  You are bound to make huge mistakes, that&#039;s why someone invented the stop loss order.  Don&#039;t enter a trade unless you are willing to lose at least 10%.  Be yourself.  Once you stop thinking about trying to throw the ball like John Elway, you&#039;re on your way to becoming a better quarterback (but you&#039;re probably still no John Elway).  Having said all that, I don&#039;t recommend anyone try it.

@cvienne

I USED to think anyone who bought gold was a LOSER.  Well, I don&#039;t think that anymore.  Now I understand what so many were telling me about fiat money and the FR.  Wish I had listened years ago and I watch it with interest now.  Currently, I am prefering SLV.

@AT

Thanks for the invite.  I accepted your very generous offer.  Hope things are well in Space City.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@pmorrisonfl</p>
<p>I posted something earlier, but it went to Blog Heaven.  Everything AT, LB, ben22, and I-man said is spot-on.  I will add this: Take it from a reluctant trader &#8211; it&#8217;s very, very hard.  The baseball analogy is very appropriate.  Even the best hitters only bat 0.300.  You are bound to make huge mistakes, that&#8217;s why someone invented the stop loss order.  Don&#8217;t enter a trade unless you are willing to lose at least 10%.  Be yourself.  Once you stop thinking about trying to throw the ball like John Elway, you&#8217;re on your way to becoming a better quarterback (but you&#8217;re probably still no John Elway).  Having said all that, I don&#8217;t recommend anyone try it.</p>
<p>@cvienne</p>
<p>I USED to think anyone who bought gold was a LOSER.  Well, I don&#8217;t think that anymore.  Now I understand what so many were telling me about fiat money and the FR.  Wish I had listened years ago and I watch it with interest now.  Currently, I am prefering SLV.</p>
<p>@AT</p>
<p>Thanks for the invite.  I accepted your very generous offer.  Hope things are well in Space City.</p>
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		<title>By: ohemingway</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/05/green-shoots-turn-brown/comment-page-3/#comment-171412</link>
		<dc:creator>ohemingway</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 May 2009 03:17:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=26447#comment-171412</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m long marijuana futures.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m long marijuana futures.</p>
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