AC/DC Recession Special
By Barry Ritholtz - June 16th, 2009, 11:30AM
Numerous music industry agents and lawyers have told me that the recession has really hurt concert sales — In 2007, they could tell that people were under economic duress by the weaker sales, before the recession officially began.
The most recent example: Tickets are now available for AC/DC concert at the Meadowlands Giants Stadium at $29.50!
We are on the Highway to Hell reduced discretionary spending for entertainment for a long time . . .
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June 16th, 2009 at 11:35 am
Well assuming a linear correlation, if AC/DC is $29.50, then Anvil must be …
June 16th, 2009 at 11:42 am
I’m speculating here but ticket prices would have never been so high in the first place if it weren’t for ticketmaster. Back in the day Pearl Jam even took them to court over the prices but lost.
The prices some bands charge is unreal. Other bands are more than reasonable. I’ve been going to Kings of Leon shows for years and they are still dirt cheap, but that will probably change soon as they are finally getting big in the states.
The music biz is just another bubble that needs to burst, fueled by credit of course. Same with pro sports.
June 16th, 2009 at 11:56 am
If Angus was still with them it’d be a sell out
June 16th, 2009 at 11:56 am
Bands will charge whatever the market will bear. The fundamental value of AC/DC is obviously….
June 16th, 2009 at 11:57 am
No Bailout Nation Recession Special? j/k
I was expecting at least a ‘highway to hell’ by someone.
June 16th, 2009 at 11:59 am
@ben22, concerts are the main way performers make money. Few make money off record sales. How do you suggest they should make money in the future? yes tickets were “overpriced”, but for some reason people seem to want to spend a lot of money to see Britney Spears lip sync. I don’t, but all it takes is that 1% of the US population and you got 3 million customers.
June 16th, 2009 at 12:02 pm
@super_trooper: I thought you were more of an Abba fan?
June 16th, 2009 at 12:05 pm
That sucks. I paid $90 a piece for me and my 3 sons at the Wachovia Center in Phila.
Awesome show. $29.50 is a bargain. I didn’t hear right for 3 days afterward.
June 16th, 2009 at 12:10 pm
Angus Young is still in the band. He is fabulous. These guys are 60 years old and put on a show that 20 year olds couldn’t do.
June 16th, 2009 at 12:10 pm
I just hope that the federal budget will soon be Back in (the) Black.
Sorry…
June 16th, 2009 at 12:11 pm
I read somewhere (donno where) that AC/DC are at their most successful during recessions?
June 16th, 2009 at 12:21 pm
“I read somewhere (donno where) that AC/DC are at their most successful during recessions?”
So is Alabama football…73/74, 78/79, 91/92, 08 (and probably) 09, and ticket prices haven’t come down a bit. If Bama wins it all expect either recession, war, an Iranian crisis, or another oil shock. There’s some causation analysis even F411 could appreciate.
Oto, the summer camps that my kids go to have noticably fewer campers this year. The football fans must be saving up what little discretionary dough there is for the important stuff, like watching a bunch young men beat each other up on a Saturday afternoon, in person, even though you could watch nearly every game they play, live on free TV. And after all, how many kum bah ya’s around a campfire does any one kid need?
June 16th, 2009 at 12:26 pm
Interesting.
The movie theater by my house jacked the rate of movie tickets up to $9 or $10 and did away with almost all of the twilight specials. Being in the Midwest, me and the wife think $10 for a movie ticket is ridiculous so we figured so much for going to movies now. 1 month later, the movie theater now offers $5 movie tickets for any movie, any time Monday-Thursday. The expensive tickets are reserved for the weekend.
June 16th, 2009 at 12:30 pm
AC/DC, Giant Stadium, 29.95… even guy who’s watching Springer on his mother sofa can weisel 30 clams
June 16th, 2009 at 12:31 pm
@supertrooper,
Regarding the record sales, they make little money on them because of the way the industry is set up. While it is much harder to do today, I would add that artists that do end up selling a lot of albums make more than enough from the sales. Besides, most albums put out today have 1-3 decent songs and the rest suck. If I gave 16 recs every few years to clients and only 1-3 were ever any good, I wouldn’t make a lot of money either. I know, apples to oranges but you get the point.
I’m not saying bands/artists shouldn’t make any money at concerts, just that the prices they charge don’t need to be as high as they are. You basically said it yourself, paying $80+ to get a glimpse (if you are sitting close enough) of Britney Spears and not even get to hear her sing, well, that’s a waste of money if you ask me. I think a lot more people are going to come to the same conclusion you and I have.
Clearly, as the post shows, already less people are willing to spend that kind of money to see a show.
If you think Madonna is worth the 200 million she grosses during the 8-10 shows she plays during her tour, I just don’t have a comeback for you.
June 16th, 2009 at 12:38 pm
Now that we have an AC/DC thread, it is totally on topic for me to say it’s my belief that my big balls should be held every night.
Let’s see if this gets through moderation
June 16th, 2009 at 12:48 pm
@ ben22, back in the day I would have gone to her concerts. Madonna was hot and a tease. Sex always sells…… probably why she named her book “Sex”. Now she’s 50 and well, not so hot. Maybe the people going to her concerts are just reliving the good old days.
June 16th, 2009 at 12:54 pm
Recession is good for art.
June 16th, 2009 at 12:56 pm
@ tagyoureit, anything bad is good for art. It’s inspiration.
June 16th, 2009 at 12:59 pm
@super,
I’ll give you that about Madonna back in the day, when I was in college I paid a pretty good amount to see Janet Jackson in concert during the Velvet Rope Tour. She was also hot. She brought a guy up on stage and tied him down to a bed and danced for him.
As for reliving the good ole day’s, I never saw the Stones in concert but I’m thinking there are plenty of people doing that same thing at their shows, and paying $400+ to do so.
June 16th, 2009 at 12:59 pm
@ben22
Madonna is worth whatever she earned last year.
1) she did not misrepresent what the tickets were for
2) fans were not coerced to purchase them
3) no tax dollars were involved
June 16th, 2009 at 1:00 pm
BTW most of my favorite musicians died in poverty.
June 16th, 2009 at 1:04 pm
If you have not seen them, and you like straight ahead, non overproduced, rock n roll, please do yourself a favor and go. They do know how to rock….
June 16th, 2009 at 1:18 pm
@Deflator Mouse
I believe the point is that the incomes in the music and professional sports industries are just as much an unsustainable excess as the 2007 housing prices were in California. I for one certainly hope that this is the case. I think the world would be a better place if the people who value these things so highly ran out of easy money.
June 16th, 2009 at 1:42 pm
AC/DC is just as produced as other artists. They’re just better at hiding that fact.
Once the easy money runs out, then (hopefully, if there is any good in this universe) only the artist who by nature must create, will remain to inspire the rest of us. I fear the baby will probably get tossed with the bath water.
June 16th, 2009 at 1:54 pm
@Pete, Deflator Mouse,
Pete said what I was trying to get at, not so much that Madonna did something wrong therefore she shouldn’t make that much, but that those amounts earned are unsustainable because they have been built on credit.
June 16th, 2009 at 2:03 pm
@ben22
Agreed, although I hope people aren’t going into debt to buy concert and sports tickets. But they probably are.
Musicians, athletes, and others who depend upon disposable income can expect to see less income during a recession.
People who repair things (auto repair, shoe repair, tailors, plumbers, etc.) will do fine.
June 16th, 2009 at 2:18 pm
I’m not the world’s biggest AC/DC guy, but I am learning to play “Highway to Hell” on my guitar!
Anyhow, two weeks ago my wife and I paid $80 per to see No Doubt. We got general admission pit tix and were not more than five feet off the stage. Great show. I could see the brown of Gwen’s lovely eyes. It’s by far the closest I have ever been in an amphitheater. The place was nearly full, too.
Two summers ago we paid $90 per to be a half mile from The Police. They definitely timed their reunion just right. That Sting has the Midas touch.
June 16th, 2009 at 2:23 pm
Since we have a music thread, as to the emo v. indie I’ve got to say…
ARE WE NOT MEN???
WE ARE DEVO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
June 16th, 2009 at 2:26 pm
@ben22, you have been pounding the drum about pro sports recently also, and I think you are right. I am confident that I make more $ than a lot of people that I see on the rare occasion when I go to a Giants/whatever game, and I find going to games to be freakishly expensive. I don’t have any idea how people go to 20+ baseball games per year.
A season luxury-box at a Lakers game is something like $2 million. I can’t see how businesses can keep justifying that kind of expense.
June 16th, 2009 at 2:36 pm
Whammer,
yeah, I think lots of pro-sports are in trouble. Which is a shame because I really love sports but I don’t see how you give a kid out of college $40 mil of gauranteed money in football before he even throws a pass in the leauge. I read such an interesting take on this not long ago so I will post it again:
Pioneering Studies in Socionomics, Chapter 17 (excerpt): “In 1985, The Elliott Wave Theorist’s original study on ‘Pop Culture and the Stock Market’ asserted, ‘Trends in sports reflect the prevailing mood.’ The emergence of a bull market produces an escalating energy level that is physically embodied in the organization of athletic competitions. As the rise in social mood progresses, people share the optimism of the time by heading out to the ball park in larger numbers and constructing elaborate events.” Ch. 10 (excerpt): “Our ‘Popular Culture’ Special Report of 1985 concluded that baseball is a bull market sport (good guys are the good guys) and football a bear market sport (bad guys are the good guys).”
Hockey is also on the “bear market sports” list — see Pioneering Studies in Socionomics, Ch. 12. Also, the there was a wave forecast in 2003 that said: To suit a bear market of high degree, entire new forms of athletic competition will emerge. In our 1996 report, we noted that after 200 years of rising stock prices, it is ‘hard to imagine what a bear market sport would be like. We envision something along the lines of boxing, where it’s man against man. There is no ball to displace man’s natural aggression and no hoop to make us focus on any loftier ambition than survival.’ The rising game on the scene is just such a sport: Ultimate fighting…”
June 16th, 2009 at 4:44 pm
Ben22,
I own the book read it twice….it’s great stuff but consider your music example again. The hard edged AC DC may have an appealing, edgy sound to it during declining mood periods but how about applying a little old fashioned business sense? The Grateful Dead sold out (almost or did) a reunion tour this spring at high prices in large arenas. Many would dismiss it as nostalgic Boomers reaching deep one more time for their fav tunes. That may be part of of but I submit that most of it is experience marketing. They have a customer base of loyal fans that know that the live music is The Event. How about the familiar tune done in a slightly different tempo or key? (How many record label stars can actually pull that off live?) How about letting them record live and share the tunes and, in the process, they make you love and remember the best moments of their lives dancing with friends at a show? Then hit the road for a string of dates and be a true professional musician instead of waiting for the check in the mail? The days of king kong record deals is dead. Labels don’t have consumers in the squeeze they did in the Sam Goody days and likely never will again. That puts the onus back on entertainment and the artists themselves. The only time in history that musicians have been raised to the economic heights of Madonna was during the rein of the FCC. Them days are over now.
And as for hockey? Rodney Dangerfield had it right. He must’ve read that book too.
June 16th, 2009 at 6:17 pm
I had to register to get you guys up to speed.
First of all, no way AC/DC can fill a stadium. Venue too big. Dead could carry stadiums with Jerry, no more. Meanwhile Phish sold out entire tour $50/seat. Tertiary bands are doing poorly. AC/DC is secondary. I just took my son to Bonnarro, and I am hearing it nearly sold out (75,000 tickets at $200-$250 each, with VIP area looking full too me at $1200 or so.). The number of RVs down there was incredible.
Point being, AC/DC is not a barometer, especially in a stadium.
June 16th, 2009 at 9:16 pm
drywolf,
I agree with you on AC DC and disagree on the recent Dead tour. They did well. It was a bit of a money grab but spoke to their following in such a difficult time period. The main question is what is at the heart of the success of the Jam Band culture. Fun wrapped into high quality musicianship (whether the style suits you or not).
As for Bonnaroo…..it’s a destination event as branded as Spring Break. It doesn’t belong in the realm of one nite stands. The question is less about their sellout and more on how much it cost to sell out.
June 16th, 2009 at 9:39 pm
Current Dead did OK with small venues. Summer tours I saw had Dead filling stadiums for multiple night runs.
Phish tour is sold out. Not sure any other artist has sold out whole tour this summer.
Did not view Bonnaroo as spring break, but I see your point.
My point is that AC/DC is trying to sell a venue behond their status. My point is that there are not any other compelling bands out there.
Did Buffett sell out tour? I’s say that is a better barometer as to economy’s impact on concert sales that AC/DC.
June 16th, 2009 at 10:04 pm
Deflator Mouse
I don’t think you get what the whole debt bubble was about and how it inflated the entire global economy over the last couple of decades, particularly the last 5 years. It’s not necessarily that the people who are paying exorbitant amounts for concert tickets, etc. are going into debt to do it (although plenty of that was going on, no doubt), it’s that the entire economy was artificially pumped up on leverage which found it’s way into almost every aspect of our economy. All that “wealth” that was created by pulling future demand into the present and by creating more money through debt creation manifested itself in crazy prices that people were willing to pay for such things.
Much more could be written but hopefully you get the point.
June 22nd, 2009 at 1:22 pm
AC/DC is not trying to sell out venues they can’t fill, they are giving fans more of an opportunity to see them. They could play MSG and get 16-18000 fans, or go to Giants Stadium and get 50,000 plus. So what if it’s not full, fans have a chance to see them.
Funny how you say they can’t fill a stadium. Stadiums are all shapes and sizes. BC Place Vancouver holds 60000 for sporting events. It’s sold out! Regina, sold out 35-40000.
In Europe they are filling 70000 seat stadiums. So what if they haven’t sold out Giants Stadium. The seats for $29.50 will be way, way up there. It’s smart to lower the price on those seats.
As for ticket prices. I have no issue with their ticket price. $100 is a bargain for the night of entertainment they deliver, each and every night. U2 tix are $250 for the best seat. No thanks.
If you are wondering how well AC/DC tix are selling, look online at their European dates. Check the numbers in Austraila. 500000 seats sold in 30 minutes for 11 shows. I’d say they’re doing ok in terms of ticket sales.
June 22nd, 2009 at 1:27 pm
Just checked the Giants stadium seating available. The $29.50 seats are upper deck, end zone.
The best pair of seats I could find were in the 200 level near the corners. I think the ticket sales are doing just fine.