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	<title>Comments on: The Still Over-Leveraged Consumer</title>
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	<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/06/the-still-over-leveraged-consumer/</link>
	<description>Macro Perspective on the Capital Markets, Economy, Geopolitics, Technology, and Digital Media</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 15:19:29 -0500</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Tax Equivalent Yield, Pay Down Debt, Debt Free, Bond Coupon</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/06/the-still-over-leveraged-consumer/comment-page-2/#comment-183948</link>
		<dc:creator>Tax Equivalent Yield, Pay Down Debt, Debt Free, Bond Coupon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jun 2009 14:12:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=28589#comment-183948</guid>
		<description>[...] option for your cash- paying down your debt.  Household debt in the United States is still at a very high level (even after recent improvements).  You probably have some debt yourself between credit cards, [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] option for your cash- paying down your debt.  Household debt in the United States is still at a very high level (even after recent improvements).  You probably have some debt yourself between credit cards, [...]</p>
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		<title>By: The Pool Room Friday 12th June 2009 &#124; Steve Keen's Debtwatch</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/06/the-still-over-leveraged-consumer/comment-page-2/#comment-182826</link>
		<dc:creator>The Pool Room Friday 12th June 2009 &#124; Steve Keen's Debtwatch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Jun 2009 02:50:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=28589#comment-182826</guid>
		<description>[...] The Still Over-leveraged Consumer, The Big Picture, 9 Jun [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] The Still Over-leveraged Consumer, The Big Picture, 9 Jun [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Chicago Real Estate</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/06/the-still-over-leveraged-consumer/comment-page-2/#comment-181297</link>
		<dc:creator>Chicago Real Estate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 09:09:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=28589#comment-181297</guid>
		<description>[...] admin &#124; June 10, 2009       The Still Over-Leveraged Consumer &#124; The Big Picture The Still Over-Leveraged Consumer Email this post Print this post By Barry Ritholtz - June 9th, [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] admin | June 10, 2009       The Still Over-Leveraged Consumer | The Big Picture The Still Over-Leveraged Consumer Email this post Print this post By Barry Ritholtz &#8211; June 9th, [...]</p>
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		<title>By: ben22</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/06/the-still-over-leveraged-consumer/comment-page-2/#comment-181279</link>
		<dc:creator>ben22</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 02:44:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=28589#comment-181279</guid>
		<description>Mike C, 

Wow, ease up.  Not that I expect you to be reading my posts but feel free to go back and look.  I&#039;ve been saying for months I thought the rally would move us to 965-1k, something just above would not surprise me in the least.  I was steadily buying stocks in Nov and all the way into March as I&#039;ve also posted here since then.  My main thinking then was that I thought reflation would certainly occur, at the time I didn&#039;t fully understand the credit deflation issues that are already happening, I don&#039;t think you do based on your response. As I learned more I developed a different larger picture view about what is coming for us, and it isn&#039;t a nice reflation.  You assume an awful lot about me in your post.  I&#039;m not triple short and I never said anything was impossible and I certainly never claimed to be 100% right.

My response was towards the article and it was a Big Picture response to an article that seemed to focus on the large overall picture of a new bull market developing, not the next 6-12 months and where you think the S&amp;P could go to, the the author tells us the last step to making it so, ending by talking about the make-up of other bull markets.  You agreed with it, and good luck to you.  I&#039;m not surprised you would agree considering you only &quot;mostly agree&quot; with the credit expansion and what that has done to nominal values of things like stocks or homes.  

I don&#039;t need to answer questions about what I mean by bull run because, the author of the article does it for me here:

Yet as equity prices creep higher, the bears may soon have to concede defeat. The Standard &amp; Poor’s 500 Index has gained about 15 percent since early December and most other major benchmarks have made solid gains in the same period. At some point, it will become known as the 2009-2013 bull market.


 Clearly there was money to be made from 03-07, again, for all of your reading of Grantham you should know the he referred to the bubble as &quot;perceived wealth&quot;, this is what I meant as a &quot;fake&quot; bull.  For the record, I was certainly not short from 03-07.  

Why does everyone here think that if you have a bigger picture idea that is bearish that it automatically makes you Steve Barry and you must be holding double or triple short everything in your accounts????  

In closing Mike C, the most important thing for you to remember is that it wasn&#039;t &quot;green shoots&quot; that started this move, it was &quot;mustard seeds&quot; as I recall.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike C, </p>
<p>Wow, ease up.  Not that I expect you to be reading my posts but feel free to go back and look.  I&#8217;ve been saying for months I thought the rally would move us to 965-1k, something just above would not surprise me in the least.  I was steadily buying stocks in Nov and all the way into March as I&#8217;ve also posted here since then.  My main thinking then was that I thought reflation would certainly occur, at the time I didn&#8217;t fully understand the credit deflation issues that are already happening, I don&#8217;t think you do based on your response. As I learned more I developed a different larger picture view about what is coming for us, and it isn&#8217;t a nice reflation.  You assume an awful lot about me in your post.  I&#8217;m not triple short and I never said anything was impossible and I certainly never claimed to be 100% right.</p>
<p>My response was towards the article and it was a Big Picture response to an article that seemed to focus on the large overall picture of a new bull market developing, not the next 6-12 months and where you think the S&amp;P could go to, the the author tells us the last step to making it so, ending by talking about the make-up of other bull markets.  You agreed with it, and good luck to you.  I&#8217;m not surprised you would agree considering you only &#8220;mostly agree&#8221; with the credit expansion and what that has done to nominal values of things like stocks or homes.  </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t need to answer questions about what I mean by bull run because, the author of the article does it for me here:</p>
<p>Yet as equity prices creep higher, the bears may soon have to concede defeat. The Standard &amp; Poor’s 500 Index has gained about 15 percent since early December and most other major benchmarks have made solid gains in the same period. At some point, it will become known as the 2009-2013 bull market.</p>
<p> Clearly there was money to be made from 03-07, again, for all of your reading of Grantham you should know the he referred to the bubble as &#8220;perceived wealth&#8221;, this is what I meant as a &#8220;fake&#8221; bull.  For the record, I was certainly not short from 03-07.  </p>
<p>Why does everyone here think that if you have a bigger picture idea that is bearish that it automatically makes you Steve Barry and you must be holding double or triple short everything in your accounts????  </p>
<p>In closing Mike C, the most important thing for you to remember is that it wasn&#8217;t &#8220;green shoots&#8221; that started this move, it was &#8220;mustard seeds&#8221; as I recall.</p>
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		<title>By: primordial_ooze</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/06/the-still-over-leveraged-consumer/comment-page-2/#comment-181277</link>
		<dc:creator>primordial_ooze</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 02:17:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=28589#comment-181277</guid>
		<description>@willid3 10:28
That&#039;s it, there is no one else to fill the void. Welcome to the new normal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@willid3 10:28<br />
That&#8217;s it, there is no one else to fill the void. Welcome to the new normal.</p>
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		<title>By: primordial_ooze</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/06/the-still-over-leveraged-consumer/comment-page-2/#comment-181272</link>
		<dc:creator>primordial_ooze</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 01:56:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=28589#comment-181272</guid>
		<description>@farmera1 7:49
You are exactly right. When I learned that the average consumer was spending more than they
were earning, i.e. when debt went exponential, I knew it was time to get out of the stock market,
and that was back in Dec 2007.

@cvienne 7:45
People are saving but why would anyone think that money would go into investment? After all
everyone just got burnt and they need to pay off their home equity loans, car loans, student loans,
credit card debt, not to mention the mortgage. That story sounds like DOW 36,000!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@farmera1 7:49<br />
You are exactly right. When I learned that the average consumer was spending more than they<br />
were earning, i.e. when debt went exponential, I knew it was time to get out of the stock market,<br />
and that was back in Dec 2007.</p>
<p>@cvienne 7:45<br />
People are saving but why would anyone think that money would go into investment? After all<br />
everyone just got burnt and they need to pay off their home equity loans, car loans, student loans,<br />
credit card debt, not to mention the mortgage. That story sounds like DOW 36,000!</p>
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		<title>By: willid3</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/06/the-still-over-leveraged-consumer/comment-page-2/#comment-181270</link>
		<dc:creator>willid3</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 01:46:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=28589#comment-181270</guid>
		<description>was it the boomers?

http://blog.newsweek.com/blogs/wealthofnations/archive/2009/06/09/baby-boomers-it-s-all-your-fault.aspx</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>was it the boomers?</p>
<p><a href="http://blog.newsweek.com/blogs/wealthofnations/archive/2009/06/09/baby-boomers-it-s-all-your-fault.aspx" rel="nofollow">http://blog.newsweek.com/blogs/wealthofnations/archive/2009/06/09/baby-boomers-it-s-all-your-fault.aspx</a></p>
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		<title>By: CaptiousNut</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/06/the-still-over-leveraged-consumer/comment-page-2/#comment-181266</link>
		<dc:creator>CaptiousNut</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 01:20:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=28589#comment-181266</guid>
		<description>I stumbled upon some *green shoots* in Naples today.

A building foreclosing at less than half of it&#039;s 1999 price!

http://marginalizingmorons.blogspot.com/2009/06/green-shoots-in-naples-florida.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I stumbled upon some *green shoots* in Naples today.</p>
<p>A building foreclosing at less than half of it&#8217;s 1999 price!</p>
<p><a href="http://marginalizingmorons.blogspot.com/2009/06/green-shoots-in-naples-florida.html" rel="nofollow">http://marginalizingmorons.blogspot.com/2009/06/green-shoots-in-naples-florida.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: American households are $13.8 TRILLION IN DEBT, compared with $14.3 trillion output of the ENTIRE US economy. YIKES! &#124; Schizo America</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/06/the-still-over-leveraged-consumer/comment-page-2/#comment-181234</link>
		<dc:creator>American households are $13.8 TRILLION IN DEBT, compared with $14.3 trillion output of the ENTIRE US economy. YIKES! &#124; Schizo America</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jun 2009 21:51:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=28589#comment-181234</guid>
		<description>[...] to The Big Picture blog: “Despite recent frugality, consumers have barely dented their debt load. The Federal Reserve [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] to The Big Picture blog: “Despite recent frugality, consumers have barely dented their debt load. The Federal Reserve [...]</p>
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		<title>By: alfred e</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/06/the-still-over-leveraged-consumer/comment-page-2/#comment-181233</link>
		<dc:creator>alfred e</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jun 2009 21:51:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=28589#comment-181233</guid>
		<description>@deadhobo 10:27:  Spectacular.  Dead on.

Why aren&#039;t these people banding together?  

And the anger grows a little more.  There&#039;s an interesting undercurrent brewing that has not bubbled up to the surface yet.  

Will it?  Guess we&#039;ll have to stay tuned.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@deadhobo 10:27:  Spectacular.  Dead on.</p>
<p>Why aren&#8217;t these people banding together?  </p>
<p>And the anger grows a little more.  There&#8217;s an interesting undercurrent brewing that has not bubbled up to the surface yet.  </p>
<p>Will it?  Guess we&#8217;ll have to stay tuned.</p>
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