Comments on: More NAR Nonsense http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/07/more-nar-nonsense/ Macro Perspective on the Capital Markets, Economy, Geopolitics, Technology, and Digital Media Tue, 14 Feb 2012 15:55:22 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.5 By: tonyarko http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/07/more-nar-nonsense/comment-page-1/#comment-198163 tonyarko Wed, 29 Jul 2009 13:23:10 +0000 http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=33548#comment-198163 It is true that NAR is really a special interest group. But is that really the problem or is it just a symptom of the problem. The real problem being the way the government operates. How much money did NAR and NAR members get from the TARP? Now how much money did the banks that lend money to anyone with a pulse get. While the real estate agents did make commissions on the transactions, that again was a byproduct of the banks easy lending standards. And with the banks easy lending standards come the banks control of appraisers. And now when they don't want to lend money, the banks have lobbied and got the appraisal rules changed to the detriment of everyone else. NAR doesn't do a whole lot of good but at least they didn't take all your taxpayer dollars in the form of bailouts. It is true that NAR is really a special interest group. But is that really the problem or is it just a symptom of the problem. The real problem being the way the government operates. How much money did NAR and NAR members get from the TARP? Now how much money did the banks that lend money to anyone with a pulse get. While the real estate agents did make commissions on the transactions, that again was a byproduct of the banks easy lending standards. And with the banks easy lending standards come the banks control of appraisers. And now when they don’t want to lend money, the banks have lobbied and got the appraisal rules changed to the detriment of everyone else. NAR doesn’t do a whole lot of good but at least they didn’t take all your taxpayer dollars in the form of bailouts.

]]> By: Waiting to buy in Florida http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/07/more-nar-nonsense/comment-page-1/#comment-198144 Waiting to buy in Florida Wed, 29 Jul 2009 12:31:34 +0000 http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=33548#comment-198144 My wife and I recently tried to buy a house in Fort Myers, Florida. The house was an inheritance by a nephew (lawyer no less) who put it on the market for $300,000 this past january. He lowered it to $215,000 by June when it wouldn't sell while the snow birds were in the area. We offered $180,000 on it because the house was in extremely rough shape, just to make it livable we would have to immediately drop $30,000 into it. The counter offer was $205,000 and because of my wife's need to own our own nest, I conceded at that price. We had it inspected, which found even more problems (the pool was pushed out of the ground about 8 inches, termites in the attic, severe cracks in the foundation and several of the concrete, reinforced walls, entire house needed to be cleaned and painted, everything was outdated, appliances and air conditioner made during the stone age) and were good to go until it was appraised. The appraisal came in at $178,000!!! The reason for the lower appraisal was because of what I had factored into my thinking with the original price we offered; the future decline in prices due to over supply of houses. There are still 25,000 houses moving through the foreclosure process, most in the process range of this house, and that does not include houses that will go into foreclosure as the option ARMs recast and people with conventional mortgages lose their homes. I might note that we have a combined income of $160,000, total current debt of $13,000, and about $200,000 in the bank or retirement funds. My average rating of the 3 credit agencies is 810. We told our real estate agent that we would not buy the house at $205,000, the original agreed upon price, because we would have to sink more money upfront than I would want to. The seller is obstinate because he thinks the price is way too low. He plans to bulldoze the house and sell the property for his original asking price!! In his defense, the house has a great view of the Caloosahatchee river. His real estate agent agreed with his assessment, but our real estate agent couldn't find fault with the appraisal. In my discussion with several real estate agents in the area, they don't believe prices have further to fall. It's clear the appraisers and at least this buyer disagree. My wife and I recently tried to buy a house in Fort Myers, Florida. The house was an inheritance by a nephew (lawyer no less) who put it on the market for $300,000 this past january. He lowered it to $215,000 by June when it wouldn’t sell while the snow birds were in the area. We offered $180,000 on it because the house was in extremely rough shape, just to make it livable we would have to immediately drop $30,000 into it. The counter offer was $205,000 and because of my wife’s need to own our own nest, I conceded at that price. We had it inspected, which found even more problems (the pool was pushed out of the ground about 8 inches, termites in the attic, severe cracks in the foundation and several of the concrete, reinforced walls, entire house needed to be cleaned and painted, everything was outdated, appliances and air conditioner made during the stone age) and were good to go until it was appraised. The appraisal came in at $178,000!!! The reason for the lower appraisal was because of what I had factored into my thinking with the original price we offered; the future decline in prices due to over supply of houses. There are still 25,000 houses moving through the foreclosure process, most in the process range of this house, and that does not include houses that will go into foreclosure as the option ARMs recast and people with conventional mortgages lose their homes. I might note that we have a combined income of $160,000, total current debt of $13,000, and about $200,000 in the bank or retirement funds. My average rating of the 3 credit agencies is 810. We told our real estate agent that we would not buy the house at $205,000, the original agreed upon price, because we would have to sink more money upfront than I would want to. The seller is obstinate because he thinks the price is way too low. He plans to bulldoze the house and sell the property for his original asking price!! In his defense, the house has a great view of the Caloosahatchee river. His real estate agent agreed with his assessment, but our real estate agent couldn’t find fault with the appraisal. In my discussion with several real estate agents in the area, they don’t believe prices have further to fall. It’s clear the appraisers and at least this buyer disagree.

]]> By: andyk http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/07/more-nar-nonsense/comment-page-1/#comment-198050 andyk Tue, 28 Jul 2009 20:55:32 +0000 http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=33548#comment-198050 Oh come on, mknowles. If mad cow disease was an ongoing national issue, the NCBA would probably say something. It's part of their job. Other than that, nobody cares about them. On the other hand, every homeowner in America has interest in what the NAR says. What they don't know is the NAR is a scam perpetuated by millions of useless real estate agents. Oh come on, mknowles. If mad cow disease was an ongoing national issue, the NCBA would probably say something. It’s part of their job. Other than that, nobody cares about them. On the other hand, every homeowner in America has interest in what the NAR says. What they don’t know is the NAR is a scam perpetuated by millions of useless real estate agents.

]]> By: mknowles http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/07/more-nar-nonsense/comment-page-1/#comment-197937 mknowles Tue, 28 Jul 2009 17:22:25 +0000 http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=33548#comment-197937 Would you expect the National Cattlemen's Beef Association to educate you on the risks of mad cow disease? Would you expect that they would even admit such risks exists? Why would anyone think any differently of the NAR? I agree with impermanence above, it's not just real estate agents. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ MOST HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS ADMIT TO CHEATING http://www.schoollibraryjournal.com/article/CA6539855.html A whopping 95 percent of high school students say they’ve cheated during the course of their education, ranging from letting somebody copy their homework to test-cheating, a Rutgers University professor reports. "There's a fair amount of cheating going on, and students aren't all that concerned about it," says Donald McCabe, a professor of management and global business at New Jersey-based Rutgers. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ STUDENT CHEATING HABITS: A PREDICTOR OF WORKPLACE DEVIANCE http://www.cluteinstitute-onlinejournals.com/PDFs/571.pdf (PDF 8 PAGES) From well-known documented research it is evident that cheating has increased at least three fold over the last 65 years. As alarming as this is, the numbers have more or less stabilized over the past 25 years at 70 to 75%. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Would you expect the National Cattlemen’s Beef Association to educate you on the risks of mad cow disease? Would you expect that they would even admit such risks exists?

Why would anyone think any differently of the NAR? I agree with impermanence above, it’s not just real estate agents.
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MOST HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS ADMIT TO CHEATING
http://www.schoollibraryjournal.com/article/CA6539855.html
A whopping 95 percent of high school students say they’ve cheated during the course of their education, ranging from letting somebody copy their homework to test-cheating, a Rutgers University professor reports.

“There’s a fair amount of cheating going on, and students aren’t all that concerned about it,” says Donald McCabe, a professor of management and global business at New Jersey-based Rutgers.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
STUDENT CHEATING HABITS: A PREDICTOR OF WORKPLACE DEVIANCE
http://www.cluteinstitute-onlinejournals.com/PDFs/571.pdf (PDF 8 PAGES)
From well-known documented research it is evident that cheating has increased at least three fold over the last 65 years. As alarming as this is, the numbers have more or less stabilized over the past 25 years at 70 to 75%.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

]]> By: Which Are the Credible Industry Trade Groups? | The Big Picture http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/07/more-nar-nonsense/comment-page-1/#comment-197808 Which Are the Credible Industry Trade Groups? | The Big Picture Tue, 28 Jul 2009 10:54:08 +0000 http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=33548#comment-197808 [...] post, plus yesterday’s rant on the NAR (More NAR Nonsense), led to a friend at Columbia University asking the following question: “Which of these [...] [...] post, plus yesterday’s rant on the NAR (More NAR Nonsense), led to a friend at Columbia University asking the following question: “Which of these [...]

]]> By: More NAR Whining About Appraisals http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/07/more-nar-nonsense/comment-page-1/#comment-197785 More NAR Whining About Appraisals Tue, 28 Jul 2009 03:49:28 +0000 http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=33548#comment-197785 [...] thought Barry Ritholtz at The Big Picture did a good job today putting their complaints into perspective. Remember back during the housing [...] [...] thought Barry Ritholtz at The Big Picture did a good job today putting their complaints into perspective. Remember back during the housing [...]

]]> By: impermanence http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/07/more-nar-nonsense/comment-page-1/#comment-197726 impermanence Tue, 28 Jul 2009 01:15:40 +0000 http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=33548#comment-197726 robk writes: "Realtors and NAR are performing an important service to the market by promoting real estate liquidity which is what is expected of them by their customers - home sellers and buyers. Read the NAR spin in that light. I think their factual data is exceptionally valuable and would be difficult to reproduce without Realtor cooperation and is spin-free." Substitute "doctors, lawyers, accountants, engineers, and all others professionals," instead of Realtors, and you have the greatest sell-out of all time, the sell-out of the American professional class. Shame, shame, shame. robk writes:

“Realtors and NAR are performing an important service to the market by promoting real estate liquidity which is what is expected of them by their customers – home sellers and buyers. Read the NAR spin in that light. I think their factual data is exceptionally valuable and would be difficult to reproduce without Realtor cooperation and is spin-free.”

Substitute “doctors, lawyers, accountants, engineers, and all others professionals,” instead of Realtors, and you have the greatest sell-out of all time, the sell-out of the American professional class. Shame, shame, shame.

]]> By: taxfairly http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/07/more-nar-nonsense/comment-page-1/#comment-197709 taxfairly Tue, 28 Jul 2009 00:38:11 +0000 http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=33548#comment-197709 The appraisal process is a nightmare and banks are scared to death of any lawsuits claiming puffery to value. It's just more bureaucracy, not additional protections for the buyer. Here's a perfect example: FHA loans above $417k require two full appraisals. On a $600k sales price one appraisal was $150k less than another AND THEY USED THE SAME COMPARABLES! Barry, you are the man but you didn't do your research on this one. Not all real estate agents and loan officers are crooks either. I wish lawmakers would also do their research before over-regulating the market. The appraisal process is a nightmare and banks are scared to death of any lawsuits claiming puffery to value. It’s just more bureaucracy, not additional protections for the buyer. Here’s a perfect example: FHA loans above $417k require two full appraisals. On a $600k sales price one appraisal was $150k less than another AND THEY USED THE SAME COMPARABLES!
Barry, you are the man but you didn’t do your research on this one. Not all real estate agents and loan officers are crooks either. I wish lawmakers would also do their research before over-regulating the market.

]]> By: More NAR Whining About Appraisals | But Then What http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/07/more-nar-nonsense/comment-page-1/#comment-197694 More NAR Whining About Appraisals | But Then What Tue, 28 Jul 2009 00:02:26 +0000 http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=33548#comment-197694 [...] thought Barry Ritholtz at The Big Picture did a good job today putting their complaints into perspective. Remember back during the housing [...] [...] thought Barry Ritholtz at The Big Picture did a good job today putting their complaints into perspective. Remember back during the housing [...]

]]> By: andyk http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/07/more-nar-nonsense/comment-page-1/#comment-197665 andyk Mon, 27 Jul 2009 22:34:56 +0000 http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=33548#comment-197665 Oh, and I forgot. The more agents, the more dues the NAR collects. Do you think they are motivated to mitigate the status quo by embracing technology and/or creating more stringent licensing requirements? Ha. Oh, and I forgot. The more agents, the more dues the NAR collects. Do you think they are motivated to mitigate the status quo by embracing technology and/or creating more stringent licensing requirements? Ha.

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