Reforming Over-the-Counter Derivatives: Q&A for Christopher Dodd and the Senate Banking Committee

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By Chris Whalen - July 12th, 2009, 3:55PM

Below is the Q&A I sent to the Senate Banking Committee today.  Look forward to your comments.  — Chris

July 13, 2009

The Honorable

Christopher J. Dodd

Chairman

U.S. Senate Committee on Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs
534 Dirksen Senate Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20510

Dear Chairman Dodd:

Thank you for your June 30, 2009 letter requesting written responses to questions following the hearing on OTC derivatives that the Committee’s Subcommittee on Securities, Insurance, and Investment held on June 22, 2009.  The questions and my responses follow below:

Questions for Mr. Christopher Whalen, Managing Director, Institutional Risk Analytics, from Senator Bunning:

1a. Do you believe the existence of an actively traded cash market is or should be a necessary condition for the creation of a derivative under law and regulation?

Yes.  As I stated in my prepared remarks, where there is no underlying cash market that both parties to a derivatives transaction may observe, then the derivative has no true economic “basis” in the markets, and is entirely speculative.  Where there is no cash market, there is, by definition, no price discovery.  A derivative that is created without the benefit of an actively traded cash market is essentially a deception.  In the case of credit default swaps and other “derivatives” where no actively traded cash market exists, the dealer pretends that a model can serve as a substitute for a true cash market basis. But such a pretense on the part of the dealer is patently unfair and, in my view, is really an act of securities fraud that should be prohibited as a matter of law and regulation.

1b. If not, what specific, objective means besides a cash basis market could or should be used as the underlying relationship for a derivative?

See above.  To the extent that the Congress is willing to continue to tolerate speculation in derivatives for which no cash market basis exists and are instead based upon models, then the dealers should be compelled to publish these models on a monthly basis for the entire market to see and assess.  Requiring SEC registration might be another effective solution.  Enhanced disclosure of models for OTC derivatives would likely lead to a multiplicity of new lawsuits by investors against the OTC derivatives dealers, thus the effect of compelling the disclosure of models used to price OTC derivatives would be to greatly lessen the complexity of these instruments.  Think of this as a “market based” solution driven by the trial lawyers.

2. Why should the models to price OTC derivatives not be published?  If there is no visible cash basis for a derivative, and the model is effectively the basis, why should the models not be public?

See response to 1b.

3. What is the best way to draw the line between legitimate hedges and purely speculative bets?  For example, should we require an insurable interest for purchasers of credit protection, require delivery of the reference asset, or something else?

Allowing speculators using OTC derivatives to effectively take positions against securities and companies in which they have no economic interest is a form of gaming that the Congress and federal regulators should reject.  The term “hedge” implies that the user has an economic position or exposure to a form of risk.   The use of cash settlement OTC contracts by parties who have no interest in the underlying assets or company creates perverse incentives that essentially equate an owner of an asset with the speculator with no economic interest.  The AIG episode illustrates an extreme example of this problem where AIG was actively using derivatives to engage in securities fraud, both for itself and others, and apparently with the full support and knowledge of the OTC dealers.  Allowing speculators to use cash settlement OTC derivatives to game against real companies and real assets to which they have no connection creates systemic risk in our financial system and should be prohibited by law and regulation.

4. Is the concern that increased regulation of derivatives contracts in the United States will just move the business overseas a real issue?  It seems to me that regulating the contracts written in the U.S. and allowing American firms to only buy or sell such regulated contracts would solve the problem.  What else would need to be done?

No.  Those critics who proclaim that regulation of OTC derivatives such as CDS will force the activity offshore are mistaken.  Where will they take this vile business?  London?  No.  The EU?  No.  China?  No.  Russia?  No.  Let the proponents of this market go where they will.  The government of the US should not allow itself to be held hostage by speculators.

The fact is, the US and EU are the only political jurisdictions in the world that are sufficiently confused as the true, speculative nature of CDS to allow their financial institutions to serve as a host for this reckless activity.  Regulating the speculative activities of US banks in the OTC derivatives markets and banning all OTC derivatives for which there is no actively traded bash basis market will effectively solve the problem of systemic risk.

5. In addition to the administration’s proposed changes to gain on sale accounting for derivatives, what other changes need to be made to accounting and tax rules to reflect the actual risks and benefits of derivatives?

The key change that must be made is to distinguish between true derivatives, where there is an observable cash market basis, and pseudo derivatives based upon models such as CDS and collateralized debt obligations (”CDOs”) which have no observable basis and which have caused such horrible damage to the global financial system.  Where there is no active market price for the underlying relationship upon which the derivative is “derived,” then the bank or other counterparty should be required to reserve 100% of the gross exposure of the position to cover the market, liquidity and counterparty risks created by these illiquid, difficult to value gaming instruments.  Congress should explicitly forbid “netting” of OTC contracts such as CDS and any other derivative structure for which there is no cash basis market since there is no objective, independent way to value these instruments.  How can any financial institution pretend to “manage” the risk of a CDS instrument or CDO when the only objective means of valuation is a private model maintained by a dealer?

6. Is there any reason standardized derivatives should not be traded on an exchange?

No.  All derivatives for which there is an active cash market basis may easily be traded on exchanges.  Only those OTC derivatives for which there is no cash market and thus no price discovery will not be practical for exchange trading.  The problem here is a basic one since the clearing members of an exchange are not likely to be willing to interpose their capital to jointly and severally guarantee a market based on a CDS model.  Unless the clearing members and the customers of a partnership exchange possess the discipline of a cash market basis to support and validate valuations, then it is unlikely that an exchange-based approach will be practical.

7. How do we take away the incentive for credit default swap holders to force debtors into bankruptcy to trigger a credit event rather than re-negotiate the debt?

The simple answer is to require that CDS only be held by those with an economic interest in the debtor that is the underlying “basis” for the derivative.  If, as under current law and regulation, you allow speculators with no economic interest in a debtor to employ CDS, then all weak banks and companies may be pushed into insolvency by parties whose sole interest is their failure.  Allowing speculators to use CDS against debtors in which they have no economic interest essentially voids the traditional social purpose of the US bankruptcy laws, namely a) to recover the maximum value for creditors of the bankruptcy estate in an equal and fair way and b) to provide a fresh start for the company, which has historically been seen as a benefit in social terms.  The Congress needs to recall that the requirement imposed in the 18th Century by our nation’s founders to establish federal bankruptcy courts had both a practical and a social good component.

8. How do we reduce the disincentive for creditors to perform strong credit research when they can just buy credit protection instead?

You cannot.  CDS is essentially a low-cost substitute for performing actual credit research.  As with credit ratings, investors use CDS to create or adjust exposures based upon market perception rather than a true analysis of the underlying value.  And best of all, the spreads that are usually reflected in CDS pricing often are wrong and do not accurately reflect the true economic cost of default.  Thus when speculators employ CDS to purchase protection against a default, the pricing is usually well-below the true economic value of the default.  Or to put it another way, AIG was not nearly compensated for the risks that it took in the CDS markets – even though AIG was an insurer and arguably should have understood the difference between short-term “price” of an illiquid bond or loan vs. long-term “value” of a default event.

9. Do net sellers of credit protection carry that exposure on their balance sheet as an asset?  If not, why shouldn’t they?

The treatment of CDS varies by country.  All CDS positions, long or short, should be reflected as a contingent liability or asset, and carried on balance sheet in the appropriate way. The treatment used in the insurance industry for such obligations may be the best model for the Congress to consider as a point of departure for any legislation.

10. In her testimony Chairman Schapiro mentioned synthetic exposure.  Why is synthetic exposure through derivatives a good idea?  Isn’t that just another form of leverage?

Yes, it is another form of leverage and Chairman Shapiro addressed this issue directly.  When a user of CDS creates the equivalent of a cash market position in a listed security, then that position should be reported to the SEC and disclosed to the marketplace.  Allowing speculators to synthetically create the functional equivalent of a cash market position using CDS arguably is a violation of existing law and regulation.  Why should an investor be required, for example, to disclose a conventional option to purchase listed shares but not the economic equivalent in CDS?  This dichotomy only illustrates the true purpose of CDS, namely to evade established prudential norms and regulation.

11. Regarding synthetic exposure, if there is greater demand for an asset than there are available assets, why shouldn’t the economic benefit of that demand – higher value – flow to the creators or owners of that asset instead of allowing a dealer to create and profit from a synthetic version of that asset?

Agreed.  One of the pernicious and truly hideous effects of OTC instruments such as CDS is that they equate true “owners” of assets with speculators who create ersatz positions in these assets via derivatives; that is, they “rent” the asset with no accountability to the owner.  It could be argued that such activity amounts to an act of thievery and one that is encouraged by federal bank regulators, particularly the academic economists who dominate the Fed’s Board of Governors!  Since the users of cash-settlement OTC contracts never have to deliver the underlying reference assets to the buyer, there is no economic connection between the real asset and the OTC derivative.  Again, to repeat, this activity is best described as gaming, not risk management.

12. One of the arguments for credit default swaps is that they are more liquid than the reference asset.  That may well be true, but if there is greater demand for exposure to the asset than there is supply, and synthetic exposure was not allowed, why wouldn’t that demand lead to a greater supply and thus more liquidity?

Arguments that CDS are more liquid that the reference assets are disingenuous and stand the world on its head.  As above, why allow a derivative at all when there is no cash reference market?  Allowing speculators to create a short market in an illiquid corporate bond, for example, via single-name CDS does not improve price discovery in the underlying asset since there is no market in the first place.  And since the “players” in this ersatz market are required to neither borrow nor deliver the underlying reference asset, the entire exercise is pointless in terms of price discovery.  The only purpose is to allow the large dealer banks to extract supra-normal returns and increase systemic risk.  Again, it is just as easy to speculate on the outcome of a horse race as on the price of a CDS since there is no mechanistic connection between the wager and the actual reference “asset” or event.

13. Is there any justification for allowing more credit protection to be sold on a reference asset than the value of the asset?

No.  See reply to Question 12.

14. Besides the level of regulation and trading on an exchange, there seems to be little difference in swaps and futures.  What is the need for both?  In other words, what can swaps do that forward contracts cannot?

A swap and futures/options are functionally equivalent.  The OTC swaps for oil or interest rates can be and are actively traded against the corresponding exchange traded products because they share a common cash market basis.  The advantage of OTC contracts is that they allow for customization regarding size and time periods for the counterparties.  There is nothing inherently wrong with maintaining these two markets, exchange traded and OTC, side by side, so long as a cash market basis for both exists and is equally visible to the buyer and the seller.  Only when the cash market basis is obscured or nonexistent does systemic risk increase because a) the pricing is entirely speculative and thus subject to sudden changes in liquidity and b) cash settlement of OTC contracts such as CDS allows the risk inherent due to the lack of true price discovery to expand infinitely.

15. One of the arguments for keeping over the counter derivatives is the need for customization.  What are specific examples of terms that need to be customized because there are no adequate substitutes in the standardized market?  Also, what are the actual increased costs of buying those standard contracts?

The spreads on OTC contracts generally are wider than exchange traded instruments, a difference that illustrates the inefficiency of OTC markets vs. exchange traded markets.  That said, the ability to specify size and duration of these instruments is valuable to end users and the Congress should allow the more sophisticated private participants in the markets to make that choice.  For example, if a large energy company or airline wants to enter into a swap to hedge fuel sales or costs, respectively, in a way the exchange traded contracts will not, then the user of derivatives ought to have that choice to employ the OTC instruments.  Again, OTC markets in and of themselves are not problematic and do not create systemic risk.

16. There seems to be agreement that all derivatives trades need to be reported to someone.  Who should the trades be reported to, and what information should be reported?  And is there any information that should not be made available to the public?

All open positions in OTC derivatives above a certain percentage of the outstanding contracts in any market should be a) reported to the CFTC and b) publicly disclosed in aggregate form.  Such disclosure would greatly enhance market efficiency, but it does not mitigate the concerns regarding CDS and other contracts for which there is no liquid, actively traded cash basis market.  No amount of disclosure can address that basic flaw in the CDS and other markets which lack a cash basis.

17. What is insufficient about the clearing house proposed by the dealers and New York Fed?

The proposed clearing house is entirely controlled by the dealer banks.  As we wrote in The Institutional Risk Analyst in May of this year:

In 2005, the New York Fed began to fear that the OTC derivatives market, at that time with a notional value of over $400 trillion dollars, was a sloppy mess – and it was. Encouraged by the Congress and regulators in Washington, the OTC market was a threat to the solvency of the entire global financial system – and supervisory personnel in the field and the Fed and other agencies had been raising the issue for years – all to no effect. This is part of the reason why we recommended to the Senate Banking Committee earlier this year that the Fed be completely relieved of responsibility for supervising banks and other financial institutions.

Parties were not properly documenting trades and collateral practices were ad hoc, for example. To address these problems, the Fed of New York began working with 11 of the largest dealer firms, including Bear Stearns, Merrill Lynch, Lehman, C, JPM, Credit Suisse and [Goldman Sachs].  Among the “solutions” arrived at by these talks was the creation of a clearinghouse to reduce counterparty credit risk and serve as the intermediary to every trade. The fact that such mechanism already existed in the regulated, public markets and exchanges did not prevent the Fed and OTC dealers from leading a multi-year effort to study the problem further – again, dragging their collective feet to maximize the earnings made from the existing OTC market before the inevitable regulatory clampdown.

For example, in the futures markets, a buyer and seller agreeing to a transaction will submit it to a clearing member, which forwards it to the clearinghouse. As the sell-side counterparty to the buyer and the buy-side counterparty to the seller, the clearinghouse assumes the risk that a party to the transaction might fail to pay on its obligations. It can do this because it is fully regulated and by well capitalized. As the Chicago Mercantile Exchange is fond of saying, in 110 years no futures clearinghouse has ever defaulted.

While the NY Fed believed that a central counterparty was necessary to reduce risks that a major OTC dealer firm might default, the banks firmly resisted the notion. After all, they make billions of dollars each year on the cash and securities which they required their hedge fund, pension fund and other swap counterparties to put up as collateral. Re-pledging or loaning these customer securities to other clients is very lucrative for the dealers and losing control over the clients collateral would dramatically impact large bank profits.

A clearinghouse would eliminate the need for counterparties to post collateral and a lucrative source of revenue for the dealer firms. So they bought the Clearing Corporation, an inactive company that had been the clearinghouse for the Chicago Board of Trade. If they had to clear their trades, the dealer firms reasoned, at least they would find a way to profit by controlling the new clearing firm. Such is the logic of the GSE mindset.

Meanwhile, other viable candidates for OTC derivatives clearing were eager to get into the business, such as the Chicago Mercantile Exchange and the New York Stock Exchange. Both had over 200 years experience in clearing trades and were well suited to serve as the impartial central counterparty to the banks and their customers.

If the NYSE and CME were to trade derivatives, the big banks knew they would not be able to control their fees or capture the profits from clearing. Therefore, they sold The Clearing Corp. to the Intercontinental Exchange, or ICE, a recent start-up in the OTC derivatives business which had been funded with money originally provided by, you guessed it, the banks.  In the deal with ICE, the banks receive half the profit of all trades cleared through the company. And the large OTC dealer banks made sure, through their connections with officials at the Fed and Treasury, that ICE was the winner chosen over the NYSE and CME offerings. That’s right, we hear that Tim Geithner personally intervened to make sure that ICE won over the NYSE and CME clearing units.[1]

18. How do we prevent a clearing house or exchange from being too big to fail?  And should they have access to Fed borrowing?

Limit trading in OTC derivatives by a) requiring sellers to deliver the basis of the derivative upon expiration of the contract and b) ban those derivatives for which there is no actively traded cash basis market. If such reforms are enacted, there should be no need for the Fed to ever support a multilateral exchange or clearing house.

19. What price discovery information do credit default swaps provide, when the market is functioning properly, that cannot be found somewhere else?

None.  The argument that a derivative can aid in price discovery for an illiquid cash basis is circular and ridiculous.  Trading in CDS is merely gaming between the parties vs. current market prices.  As mentioned above, most single name CDS trade against the short-term yields/prices of the supposed basis, thus these contracts arguably do not provide any price discovery vs. the true cost of insuring against default.  For example, the day before Lehman Brothers filed bankruptcy, the CDS was trading at roughly 700bp over the Treasury yield curve or roughly 7% per year (plus upfront fees totaling another couple of percentage points) to insure against default.  Yet when Lehman filed for bankruptcy, the resulting default required the payment of 9,700bp to the buyers of protection or par less the 3% recovery rate determined by the ISDA auction process.  Clearly, receiving 7% and having to pay 97% is not an indication of effective price discovery!  The sad fact is that many (but by no means all) users of CDS employ these instruments to trade or hedge current market exposures, not to correctly price the cost of default insurance.

20. Selling credit default swaps is often said to be the same as being long in bonds.  However, when buying bonds, you have to provide real capital up front and there is a limit to the lending.  So it sounds like selling swaps may be a bet in the same direction as buying bonds, but is essentially a highly leveraged bet.  Is that the case, and if so, should it be treated that way for accounting purposes?

That is correct.  In order to sell a bond short, the seller must be able to borrow the collateral and deliver same.  In CDS, since there is no obligation to deliver the underlying basis for the contract, the leverage is far higher and, more important, there is no real connection between the price discovery in the cash market and the CDS.  While services such as Bloomberg and others use cash market yields to estimate what they believe the valuation of CDS should be, there is no objective confirmation of this in the marketplace.  The buyers of CDS protection should be required to deliver the underlying instrument in order to collect on the insurance. Indeed, this was the rule in the OTC market until the after the bankruptcy of Delphi Corporation.[2] At a minimum, the Congress should compel ISDA to roll-back the template for CDS contracts to the pre-Delphi configuration and require that buyers of protection deliver the underlying basis.

21. Why should we have two regulators of derivatives, with two interpretations of the laws and regulations? Doesn’t that just lead to regulation shopping and avoidance?

Yes, in terms of efficiency, we should not have two regulators of derivatives, but the purpose of the involvement by the two agencies is not identical.  When a derivative results in the creation of the economic equivalent of a listed security, then investors must be given notice via SEC disclosure.  It should be possible for CFTC to exercise primary regulatory oversight of these markets while preserving the role of the SEC in enforcing the legal duty to disclose events that are material to investors in listed securities.

22. Why is synthetic exposure through derivatives a good idea?  Isn’t that just another form of leverage?

Yes, it is another form of leverage against real assets.  Like any form of leverage, it must be disclosed and subject to adequate prudential safeguards such as collateral and disclosure.

23. What is good about the Administration proposal?

At least we are now talking about some of the important issues, but the Administration proposal essentially mirrors the position of the large banks and should not be taken as objective advice by the Congress.

24. Mr. Whalen, you suggest making all derivatives subject to the Commodity Exchange Act.  The S.E.C. says some derivatives should be treated like securities.  Is that an acceptable option?

See response to Question 21.

25. Is there anything else you would like to say for the record?

To repeat my earlier testimony, the supra-normal returns paid to the dealers in the CDS market is a tax. Like most state lotteries, the deliberate inefficiency of the CDS market is a dedicated subsidy meant to benefit one class of financial institutions, namely the large dealer banks, at the expense of other market participants. Every investor in the markets pay the CDS tax via wider spreads and the taxpayers in the industrial nations pay due to periodic losses to the system caused by the AIGs of the world. And for every large, overt failure like AIG, there are dozens of lesser losses from OTC derivatives buried by the professional managers of funds and financial institutions in the same way that gamblers hide their bad bets. How does the continuance of this market serve the public interest?

Questions for Mr. Christopher Whalen, Managing Director, Institutional Risk Analytics, from Senator Reed:

  1. Are there differences between the SEC and CFTC’s approaches for regulating their respective markets and institutions that we should take into consideration when thinking about the regulation of the OTC derivatives markets?

The CFTC should be tasked with the functional regulation of all derivatives markets.  The SEC should cooperate with the CFTC, especially in terms of the disclosure of any derivative that creates the economic equivalent of a position in a listed security.

  1. The Administration’s proposal would require, among other things, clearing of all standardized derivatives through regulated central counterparties (CCPs).  What is the best process or approach for defining standardized products?  How much regulatory interpretation will be necessary?

The clearing of standardized contracts is a fairly straight-forward proposition and involves risks that may be managed with existing regulation.  Perhaps the biggest challenge is to require the terminology used, for example, in a CDS or CDO created from a mortgage backed security, be standardized.  As my colleague Ann Rutledge stated in the interview which I included in the hearing record: “The first key issue is that we need to do to reform our markets is to have a standard vocabulary for the definition of what is a delinquency, a default, and loss.”

  1. Are there key areas of disagreement between market participants about how central counterparties should operate?  For example, what are the different levels of access these central counterparties grant to different market participants? What are the benefits and drawbacks of different ways of structuring these central counterparties?

In the OTC derivatives market, only the dealers have access to the clearinghouse.  In an exchange based market, all of the participants face the clearinghouse and there is thus far greater equality in terms of price discovery and execution cost.  From this perspective, an exchange type model is far superior, especially seen from the perspective of non-dealer participants.

  1. One key topic touched on at the hearing is the extent to which standardized products should be required to be traded on exchanges.  What is your understanding of any areas of disagreement about how rigorous new requirements should be in terms of mandating, versus just encouraging, exchange trading of standardized OTC derivatives?

Standardized products do not have to be traded on an exchange.  The mere fact of standardization, as in the case of currency and interest rate swaps, will have the desired positive benefits.  In many respects, the issue of standardization is a canard and misses the true public policy issues posed by certain OTC derivatives such as CDS in terms of a) the lack of an actively traded cash basis market and b) the creation of excessive risk in the financial system by allowing cash settlement.

  1. Can you share your views on the benefits of customized OTC derivatives products? About how much of the market is truly customized products?

See answer to Question 15 above.

  1. The Administration’s proposal would subject the OTC derivatives dealers and all other firms whose activities in those markets create large exposures to counterparties to a “robust and appropriate regime of prudential supervision and regulation,” including capital requirements, business conduct standards, and reporting requirements. What legislative changes would be required to create margining and capital requirements for OTC derivative market participants?  Who should enforce these requirements for various market participants?  What are the key factors that should be considered in setting these requirements?

Under current law, the Fed and SEC already have the ability to impose such a regime.  The only lacking is the will to regulate. The Congress does not need to pass major legislation. What is required is congressional oversight of the Executive Branch and, if needed, action to compel the Fed and Treasury to serve the public interest instead of the narrow interests of the largest dealer banks.    If the Fed and Treasury are unable or unwilling to take the lead on requiring “robust and appropriate regime of prudential supervision and regulation” for the large banks that control the OTC markets, then the Congress should follow my recommendation and strip the Treasury and Fed of all powers in terms of regulating and supervising banks and create a new prudential regulator that is insulated from the partisan politics of Executive Branch appointments.  The biggest problem facing the US today in terms of financial regulation is the capture of regulators by the banks which they are supposed to supervise!

  1. One concern that some market participants have expressed is that mandatory margining requirements will drain capital from firms at a time when capital is already highly constrained.  Is there a risk that mandatory margining will result in companies choosing not to hedge as much and therefore have the unintended consequence of increasing risk?  How can you craft margin requirements to avoid this?

This seems to be a false argument.  Dealers lacking capital to cover their risk should reduce those risk and related leverage.  Why should dealers be able to access markets via OTC markets and thereby evade the leverage, margin limits and prudential regulations that have been long-established  in organized markets?  The more leverage that is available to market participants via OTC derivatives, the greater the systemic risk.  Thus it seems that the Congress, if it truly wishes to limit systemic risk, must conform the margin requirements in the OTC markets to those prevailing elsewhere in the US financial markets. To do otherwise is inconsistent and would seem to undermine the whole purpose of financial regulation.

  1. Is there a risk that regulating the OTC derivatives markets will dramatically alter the landscape of market participants or otherwise have unintended consequences we aren’t aware of?

As I mentioned in my testimony, the chief result of regulation will be to lessen the supra-normal returns earned by the dealers in the OTC markets and thereby expose the fundamental lack of profitability in these institutions.  If the Congress has the courage and sense of purpose to reject the pretense that OTC markets for instruments such as CDS actually enhance market stability or bank profits on a rick adjusted basis, then we can return banks to being what they should be – namely low-risk utilities – and end the threat of systemic risk one and for all.  So long as the Congress refuses to act, then the most irresponsible and aggressive speculators will continue to use our banking system to create ever more complex and opaque securities, and systemic risk will increase and eventually destroy our economy and our nation.

Please let me know if you have any questions about my responses.

Yours,

Christopher Whalen


[1] See “Kabuki on the Potomac: Reforming Credit Default Swaps and OTC Derivatives,” The Institutional Risk Analyst, May 18, 2009.

[2] i See Boberski, David, CDS Delivery Option: Better Pricing of Credit Default Swaps, Bloomberg Books (2009), Pages 101-104.

25 Responses to “Reforming Over-the-Counter Derivatives: Q&A for Christopher Dodd and the Senate Banking Committee”

  1. Wes Schott Says:

    CDS without owning the underlying security is like a naked short

    CDS could be restricted the same way as not allowing naked short stock sales – you have to own the security

    …of course we know how effectively the rules against naked short sales have been regulated…

    …given “speed” of the GS high frequency trading platform, why 3 days to deliver, anyway?

  2. vachon Says:

    Hmm. Innaresting.

  3. Pat G. Says:

    “Why do we never get an answer when we’re knocking at the door?
    With a thousand million questions about hate and death and war.
    Cause when we stop and look around us there is nothing that we need,
    In a world of persecution that is burning in its’ greed.”
    – Question–Moody Blues

    Song debuted in 1970. Goes to show just how long this shit has been going on. The answer of course is: that we never get an “answer” which is politically plausible. Because knowledgable people can certainly provide the insight.

  4. cvienne Says:

    @Pat G

    “It’s just your 19th nervous breakdown”
    ROLLING STONES

  5. jmfreeland Says:

    I don’t understand the claim that there is not a tradeable cash ‘basis’ in CDS. For the most part, every contract out there has a deliverable bond obligation (in the corporate space). Most futures contracts end up being cash settled, and it isn’t like index futures in the equity market have a deliverable. CDS contracts are, for all intents and purposes, options on bonds. If options on equities have a reason to exist, then I see no reason that options on bonds should not. Yes, they are more complicated than equity options given the number of deliverables, but that doesn’t mean they should not exist. The cash/cds basis certainly exploded as Lehman went under, but that was due to concentrated positions/losses and a sudden dramatic increase in the cost of financing bond positions. If anything, corporate bonds priced credit risk much much higher than implied by credit default swaps. The fact that Lehman wasn’t trading at 97 points upfront pre-bankruptcy is because no one knew what the end-game was. Would you pay 97c on the dollar (plus 5c on the dollar annually) for Lehman insurance with no idea whether they would be bailed out going into the weekend? Doubtful, although given the financial acumen of most of our government representatives, I wouldn’t rule it out. The problem was not the product but the leverage. If AIG had been forced to post 15% margin, or some other number similar to that required of equity option writers and Treasury futures traders, we never would have had the problems we did, given that they probably weren’t going to be able to convince the parent company to put up the hundreds of billions of dollars that would have been required…Slap nearly infinite leverage onto any product you want and you will end up with problems.

  6. Pat G. Says:

    @ cvienne

    At least. lol

  7. cvienne Says:

    @jmfreeland

    ” Would you pay 97c on the dollar (plus 5c on the dollar annually) for Lehman insurance with no idea whether they would be bailed out going into the weekend?”

    Question is…what have we learned since?

    Rhetorically – IMO – You can answer the LEHMAN question with one simle truth…Hammerin’ Hank was a Goldman boy true & true…Goldman wanted Lehman to go out of business to cherry pick their assets…MISSION ACCOMPLISHED…

    Now the popular thought is that “bailouts are inevitable”…Not so fast I’d say…You have to use that idea as your most likely scenario, but it may pay to LOOK CLOSER before placing your bets going forward…

    Bottom line…still, nobody knows the END GAME, but there sure have been some more developed hypothesis metrics in the interim if you decide (or desire) to put them to work…

  8. Chris Whalen Says:

    JM: Most corporate bonds are illiquid, so whatever price the Street uses for models is pretty poor quality. No “crowd” to vote on the price. More important, because users tend to price these instruments against short-term price/yield, I would ague that most CDS are always under-priced vs. default risk. To price an option that has a strike of 100% of par vs what is costs to rent money for a year is a great bargain for buyers of protection. When you get to complex derivatives such as CDOs, there is no cash market. ;)

  9. matt Says:

    “7. How do we take away the incentive for credit default swap holders to force debtors into bankruptcy to trigger a credit event rather than re-negotiate the debt?

    The simple answer is to require that CDS only be held by those with an economic interest in the debtor that is the underlying “basis” for the derivative. If, as under current law and regulation, you allow speculators with no economic interest in a debtor to employ CDS, then all weak banks and companies may be pushed into insolvency by parties whose sole interest is their failure. ”

    Mr. Whalen:

    I am under the impression that those paying on a CDS, even if they have an economic interest in the underlying, are more prone to force a bankruptcy because the CDS provides a known recovery value (versus the uncertainty of a bankruptcy court). Your statement, to only permit those with an economic interest in the debtor to buy protection seems senseless, as the CDS, per se, eliminates the non-income portion of that economic interest.

    The sooner we get these contracts on a regulated exchange, where they can face the scrutiny of public transparency and the collateral requirements of a centralized clearinghouse, the better. I just have this creeping suspicion that the best we will get is some window dressing drafted or redacted by the legal departments of the primary dealers. The Obama administration is already demonstrating extreme capture by the primary dealers ( particularly those that effectively operate as derivatives exchanges ). The Congress and the congressionally overseen regulatory agencies appear to be the same.

  10. matt Says:

    Also, I forgot to mention:

    While I generally think that CDS and some other nebulous OTC derivatives are more trouble than they are worth, if we, as a society, choose to tolerate them, we should be careful with the “dumb” regulation. There are a lot of legitimate hedging purposes for these instruments, even for those who do not have a direct economic interest.

    For example, if I want to hedge my exposure to some microcap in industry X, I might find that there is not a CDS market for said microcap. However, there might be a CDS market for a large cap in industry X. The CDS on the large cap could be a perfectly good proxy for my micro cap. In that case, my CDS position is perfectly legitimate, even though I don’t have direct exposure to the underlying.

  11. jmfreeland Says:

    @ Chris: Corporate bonds are somewhat illiquid and were certainly very illiquid during the blowup, but they aren’t that illiquid. Many benchmark issues trade in 5 or 10 basis point markets intraday. They are certainly less liquid than equities, but most investment grade bonds (and I would assume high yield) have a relatively defined market. Many billions of bonds are traded every day providing observable executed prices. There is certainly a crowd in the corporate bond market. Transactions are generally larger as the people playing are largely institutional money managers, pensions, insurance companies etc. but it’s inaccurate to claim that price discovery doesn’t happen pretty frequently. Even more distressed companies like Neiman Marcus have bonds that trade at least daily providing a relatively good framework for corporate bond and derivative traders. As for what they are priced against, they are priced against the maturities of the bonds that they trade agaisnt. Five year CDS are generally going to trade against 5yr bonds and the same holds across the maturity spectrum. You can play longer bonds off of shorter CDS if you are worried about the short-term but not long-term viability of a business, but generically people who trade both assets want to match up maturities. I don’t quite understand the underpricing argument. Yes, right now CDS does price risk lower than corporates for the most part, but that is more due to a whole slew of technical factors (basis trade hangover, restructuring triggers, uncertainty as to where the product is going, etc.) and not necessarily a wholesale mispricing. The relationship was a lot more well defined pre-crisis, and should the product end up with a centralized clearinghouse, I would guess it will return to being so.

    CDOs, btw, encompass a huge range of products, including cash products. Most of the securitized products you see causing all of this havoc are cash products. Synthetics are a zero sum game, one person wins and one person loses. The securitized subprime and alt-A bonds that created the real losses were cash products. Synthetic CDOs don’t necessarily have an underlying cash market, but reference individual CDS contracts, which do have cash obligations to price off of. That said, pricing models for structured credit are tenuous at best as most people have learned. The correlation assumptions end up being the problem though and not the fact that there are no underlying prices. The value of a synthetic porftolio of credit default swaps (I believe, this is not an area I know as much about) is relatively well-defined given the prices of underlying contracts (and this basis can be traded, although this was another dangerous trade due to similar issues as the corporate bond basis). It is only when you start slicing up the risk into different parts of the capital structure that you run into real issues. This is where the financial technologies applied just weren’t robust enough or are perhaps simply too abstract. You can definitely argue, however, that securitization and risk tranching make sense. To split up large pools of obligations into riskier parts and safer parts definitely suits specific investors as it was designed. Things just went way too far in terms of what was thrown into the pools, overall lending standards, and the leverage allowed on both cash and derivative products.

  12. Transor Z Says:

    @Matt: The bankruptcy protection given swap holders is a huge consideration. This is why billions were funneled to GS et al through AIG, a manifestly insolvent company. It also adds oomph to the “empty creditor” scenario noted above.

  13. willid3 Says:

    i would think treating CDS/CDO like insurance (which they are) would entail that holders of these contracts would be held to that standard. which means that if you hold such contracts and you push a company into bankruptcy, that the contract is null and void. no different than holding insurance on your car, your insurance won’t replace it if you burn it up by torching it on purpose.
    and i still see no real good reason to have either of these on some asset you don’t own. its like insurance on your neighbors house. nobody will sell that. and it makes for extremely bad policy. to make it easier it like your neighbor having a life insurance policy on you. do you really want that?

  14. Mark E Hoffer Says:

    Chris,

    It was too predictable, that the first Question that ‘they’ asked you, was, previously, addressed by you, in your Written Statement..

    We have a History of moving the location of our Capitol, personally, I think it’s it is Time for Another change scenery, in that regard..and, yes, we can leave behind those ‘elected’, and selected, those that serve WDC..
    http://www.thefreedictionary.com/capitol

  15. Winston Munn Says:

    “When you got nothing, you got nothing to lose
    You’re invisible now, you got no secrets to conceal.”

    Bob Dylan

  16. philipat Says:

    I forget his name but last week on CNBC (No, seriously!) some Wall St hack was putting forthe the latest line on why derivatives must be OTC. The arguement was that some of these derivatives are very illiquid, especially further down the curve. Which when you think about it is totally irrelevant.

    If that’s the best they can come up with, maybe there’s hope for Barnie yet?!!

  17. matt Says:

    @Transor Z:

    What you refer to as “empty creditor” was just the point I was making.

    The Senator asked, “How do we take away the incentive for credit default swap holders to force debtors into bankruptcy to trigger a credit event rather than re-negotiate the debt?”

    Mr. Whalen basically replied (if I understand him correctly) that you make CDS buyers own the underlying. The problem is that they still have an interest in forcing a bankruptcy on the debtor and are entirely divorced from the idea of working with the debtor. I don’t see how requiring someone to own the underlying changes anything about CDS positions.

    If a well regulated exchange+clearinghouse solution can’t be done, at the very least, they need to put down some stiff collateral requirements so that a CDS seller faces the disincentive of freezing up assets (and couldn’t pull an AIG of entering into a systemically dangerous amount of contracts).

  18. Wes Schott Says:

    @matt –

    CDS buyers must own the underlying security – I agree, see my comment @4:37

    otherwise they are buying insurance to cover something they do not own

    that is why the cds value outstanding is so much greater than the cdo they cover

    just like naked shorts in the stock market – selling short as asset that you do not own

  19. Wes Schott Says:

    @Chris Whalen -

    Has any evidence surfaced regarding so called “side letters” between the buyer and seller of the CDS’s?

    AIG and GS, etc….

    just like you described the side letters in the re-insurance business that the regulators were gradually uncovering

  20. FrancoisT Says:

    This Q&A proves by facts and figures the argument that CDS holders without economic interest related to TRUE hedging should NEVER have received one penny during the bailout.

    And puhleeeze, don’t give me this grade-AAA crapola about the “sanctity of contracts.” I’ve read my Bible since elementary school and there is no mention of that anywhere in the Sacred Texts.

  21. FrancoisT Says:

    This quote summarize pretty well the dilemma that faces Congress:

    If the Congress has the courage and sense of purpose to reject the pretense that OTC markets for instruments such as CDS actually enhance market stability or bank profits on a rick adjusted basis, then we can return banks to being what they should be – namely low-risk utilities – and end the threat of systemic risk one and for all. So long as the Congress refuses to act, then the most irresponsible and aggressive speculators will continue to use our banking system to create ever more complex and opaque securities, and systemic risk will increase and eventually destroy our economy and our nation.

    The dilemma is simple: “De we keep on taking this awesome flow of campaign contributions from the banks and the nation be damned, or do we tell the banks to go to hell by doing the right thing?”

    Hmmm! That will be fun to watch.

  22. Questions for Senate Banking Committee and Christopher Dodd on over-the-counter derivatives » New Deal 2.0 Says:

    [...] complete Q&A, available on The Big Picture, outlines the fraudulent nature of credit default swaps and other OTC derivatives. Whalen makes the [...]

  23. Dave in SW Oregon Says:

    Chris –

    Great job addressing the Senators’ questions and sticking by your position. Having watched the hearings and now having read your replies to the follow-up questions, I am even more convinced you are on the right track to at least partially controlling the derivatives monster, especially CDS and other speculative, non-cash market basis toxic gambling games.

    My Senator, Merkley, while not on the securities sub-committee, is on the Banking, Housing and Urban Affairs. I have been writing to him about the need to reform banking and you put it, “return banks to being what they should be – namely low-risk utilities – and end the threat of systemic risk one and for all”.

    I would like to forward to him the Q&A, but its a long post (rightfully so), is there a link to a PDF at IRA with all of the same (and more strong reasons?) that I can at least link to in my next email/communication to him?

    Thanks,

    Dave in SW Oregon

  24. tim3 Says:

    I agree with jmfreeland.

    Chris, like many other commentators, seems to be confusing the customized CDS that AIG wrote with corporate CDS (default insurance on corporate bonds).

    For corporate CDS:

    “Most corporate bonds are illiquid, so whatever price the Street uses for models is pretty poor quality. No “crowd” to vote on the price.”

    Comment: There is an observable cash bond market which CDS prices off of. Its called the corporate bond market and billions trade daily. Plus, you cannot buy corporate CDS on illiquid issuers. Corporate CDS is focused on the largest issuers whose bonds trade daily.

    “More important, because users tend to price these instruments against short-term price/yield, I would ague that most CDS are always under-priced vs. default risk. ”

    2. CDS pricing is based on the credit risk premium investors demand. This credit risk premium is not known but can be estimated from the Libor curve (ie, short-term yield). Just because the credit risk premium is not observable does not mean investors cannot have their opinions (think equity risk premium or VIX – not observable but investors can place bets in future options markets). You may think CDS is under/over priced relative to default risk, but, like any other tradeable asset, people are entitled to their opinion. Future default rates will allow you to decide whether the models were pricing correctly or not.

    “To price an option that has a strike of 100% of par vs what is costs to rent money for a year is a great bargain for buyers of protection. ”

    3. Not exactly sure but I think you are back onto LIBOR. I think you are saying that CDS should not be priced off of LIBOR (cost of short-term borrwings from AA bank for less than 1 year) for five year protection. Again, what should the price be and how can you be so certain?

    I can just see the glazed over faces of the Congressman when you go through all these points.

    How about just saying this: corporate CDS markets needs to be regulated and transparency increased because its an illiquid, easily-manipulatable market controlled by brokers.

    As for AIG, insurance companies should not be taking massive one-way directional bets at their holding companies?

  25. Wes Schott Says:

    @DeDude –

    with you on this one…

    “Wes Schott Says:
    July 12th, 2009 at 4:37 pm

    CDS without owning the underlying security is like a naked short

    CDS could be restricted the same way as not allowing naked short stock sales – you have to own the security

    …of course we know how effectively the rules against naked short sales have been regulated…

    …given “speed” of the GS high frequency trading platform, why 3 days to deliver, anyway?”