The details on exhaustees — the people have used up their total Unemployment benefits — are pretty daunting. I mentioned this to Doug Kass last week, who referenced our prior post on the subject at Real Money, and it caused quite a stir.

Let’s explain what this means and update a chart on the subject.

If you lose your job, you get Unemployment Benefits, an insurance program that you pay into so long as you are getting a salary.  After 26 weeks, you will exhaust those benefits and become an exhaustee.

But, wait, there’s more!

These days, via the stimulus plan, we have the Emergency Unemployment Compensation (EUC)  which is good for 20 weeks. Then, there is the Supplemental EUC, which depending upon what your state thinks of the Federal largesse of handing out money to the recently unemployed, ranges anywhere from 13 to 20 more weeks.

The most recent data run was for the week of July 11. As of that week, the Extendees — which consists of soon-to-be-Exhaustees — gained 25k, raising the total unemployed receiving extended benefits to about 2.66 million people. One year ago, there were only 127 thousand receiving extended benefits.

And, as the NYT noted yesterday, there are another 1.5 million people likely to become Exhaustees over the next few months. . . .

>

Nice graphic from Calculated Risk showing how severe this is:

unemployedover26weeks

>
>

Previously:
Continuing Claims “Exhaustion Rate” (June 22nd, 2009)

http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/06/continuing-claims-exhaustion-rate/

Continuing Claims vs. Economically Lagging Unemployment (May 10th, 200)

http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/05/continuing-claims-vs-economically-lagging-unemployment/

Source:
Prolonged Aid to Unemployed Is Running Out
ERIK ECKHOLM
NYT August 1, 2009

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/02/us/02unemploy.html

Category: Economy, Employment

Please use the comments to demonstrate your own ignorance, unfamiliarity with empirical data and lack of respect for scientific knowledge. Be sure to create straw men and argue against things I have neither said nor implied. If you could repeat previously discredited memes or steer the conversation into irrelevant, off topic discussions, it would be appreciated. Lastly, kindly forgo all civility in your discourse . . . you are, after all, anonymous.

63 Responses to “Extended Benefits and Exhaustion Rate (Updated)”

  1. franklin411 says:

    Why is it “government largess” to spend money on Americans?

    We spent $2 billion per week in Iraq at the height of the surge, and the neo-cons complained that it wasn’t enough. I didn’t hear a peep about how that money was corrupting the Iraqi soul. And yet when we spent $40 billion to extend unemployment benefits until Dec 31, we were told it was death–death to the soul of the American worker!

    So why is it soul-corrupting to spend money on Americans, but good to spend it on Iraqis? I know Barry isn’t in the camp of the free market ayatollahs, but I’m sure plenty of our commenters are.

  2. And this is how recessions get streeeeeetched into extra innings. Zombie banks…..zombie unemployed.

    It might be me but I thought exhaustees and extendees were the latest boomer medical issue that some or other cure was being marketed for. I can see the commercials now. Cue the…..oh never mind. They better get on those terms quick. They’re catchy, and someone might steal them. :mrgreen:

  3. Pat G. says:

    Oh!! Here’s another surprise for those filing initial claims last month. Because your first 26 weeks don’t run out until the end of December you’ll miss the cutoff to roll into EUC (end of the year) and therefore miss eligibility to roll into Supplemental EUC. Unless the USG extends the deadlines to roll into these additional benefits and you applied last month or after, you’re only getting 26 weeks, period. This is what happened. During the last 6 months of 2008, 2.3M Americans lost their jobs and their benefits were due to run out during the first 6 months of 2009. Once Obama won the election, he told the House to start working on a stimulus package (ARRA) that he could soon sign after his inaguration which had FED unemployment money in it. Problem is, during the first 6 months of 2009 another 3.4M Americans or more than the entire total in 2008, lost their jobs . The extensions were ill-conceived and ill-timed. But hey, what else is new??

  4. VennData says:

    Some thoughts on re-educating these clever mortgage bankers and back-slapping real estate agents…

    http://www.history.com/content/iceroadtruckers-season-three

    http://dsc.discovery.com/fansites/deadliestcatch/about/about.html

  5. The sooner people accept that the plug has been pulled, leading to the .6x Economy, and all it entails for their travails, the sooner We might, actually, get around to some Productive activities..

    ~~

    VD,

    or, maybe http://clusty.com/search?input-form=clusty-simple&v%3Asources=webplus&query=stone+quarry+rock+drilling

  6. Thor says:

    I have only one question about this article – What are the alternatives?

  7. km4 says:

    there will be no return to normal for US economy so most Americans should be recalibrating their dream

    * normal being about 1970 – 2000 when US economy was not primarily dependent on ‘rackets’, that is, behavior geared to getting something for nothing.

  8. Transor Z says:

    Exhaustion Rate is a government stat created as a proxy for reemployment, if you can believe it. IOW, it’s supposed to provide a decent estimate for the number of UI filers who rejoined the workforce — under “normal” economic conditions.

    The time horizon BLS shoots for a decent reemployment estimate is not the present but Q+2. Understand, too, that Exhaustion Rate uses the initial claims numbers from 26 weeks ago.

    So the longer this recession and jobless recovery goes on, the less of a relationship Exhaustion Rate will have to reality. For one thing, the number of unemployed receiving extended benefits (i.e., those unemployed 27+ weeks) is growing. We knew that a while ago. Anyone wanting to get a better handle on unemployment (if you’re not already a convert to using U6) will need to supplement federal numbers with extended benefits numbers.

    Another thing is that we may very well see both significantly lower initial claims and lower continuing claims numbers. But since continuing claims drops people after 26 weeks . . . well, we know the rest. Economists can say that initial claims in the 400k range is a signal that we are in recovery, but this time around there is likely to be a disconnect between that figure and a relationship to the real economy.

  9. HCF says:

    @franklin411:

    >Why is it “government largess” to spend money on Americans?

    Because the government does not create wealth, it can only redistribute it.

    HCF

  10. DL says:

    Of the various “bailout” and “stimulus programs” out there, financial support for the unemployed is more worthwhile than most of the other money that has been spent.

  11. VennData says:

    We need to check each and everyone of these so-called “exhaustees” birth certificates.

    In fact, People Magazine has reported this recently unemployed woman from Anchorage is “married” but doesn’t wear a wedding ring…

    http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/32268608/ns/today-today_people/

    I believe – along with the majority of real Americans – that they shouldn’t get food stamps or welfare of any kind until we check their birth certificates, their wedding license …but NOT their gun licenses.

  12. Pat G. says:

    @ Thor

    Short of moving in with family or friends, there’s always welfare or robbery, prostitution, selling drugs, etc… Happy thoughts!

  13. Dan Duncan says:

    To Franklin 411:

    Why do creepy older men enhance their creepiness by sporting that curious and troubling little earring?

    That question has about as much relevance to this post as your question of: “Why is it ‘government largess’ to spend money on Americans?”

    [Actually, it probably has more relevance, because at least its mildly interesting to ponder the conversation amongst the snakes residing in creepy man's head... counseling him that the little gold starter earring "really is a good look". ]

    Franklin, the post isn’t about making distinctions on the term “government largess”…it’s about the daunting prospect of millions of American with expired unemployment benefits. It’s an important issue that stands on its own and doesn’t need a mini-sililoquy about Iraq and the souls of American workers.

    As usual, you’re distracting from was once a real strength of this blog–the comment section. Post in and post out…what was once a place to go to and find insightful comments…has turned into your ongoing, uninteresting debate about Big Gov’t vs Free Markets. If you’re going to hijack this section and comment 3-4 times per post…could you at least strive for relevance…since genuine insight appears to be beyond your ken?

  14. Thor says:

    Pat – Heh, that’s the point I was getting at. Extending benefits may be a bitter pill we have to swallow right now but the alternative doesn’t paint too rosy picture either . . .

  15. Pat G. says:

    @ Thor

    They will extend benefits, it’s the lesser of two evils. The other being civil unrest…

  16. JohnnyVee says:

    Its going to be another great Christmas season. Look out below!

  17. cvienne says:

    CLUNKER-NOMICS

    From David Kotok (Think Tank thread)

    a must read

    …excerpt

    “Has anyone looked at what we have done in a macro sense? We will try.

    The United States borrowed 1 billion dollars. It is unlikely to ever pay it back. The annual interest will add $50 million to the federal budget each and every year, forever. We are assuming it is financed today with 30-year Treasury bonds. The additional $2 billion of borrowed clunker money will add another $100 million in interest. So clunker-nomics has committed the nation to make this interest payment forever.

    Practicing an industrial policy by inserting government into a mixed economy is the new America. No one measures the exchange of short-term gain being substituted for longer-term taxes or inflation or debt-burdened slower growth. Those economists who are full believers in expectations analysis argue that the market will immediately adjust prices to reflect this exchange. Maybe so in the mathematical models that they use to justify that argument.

    We think this expectations analysis fails in the real world. Adam and Eve American are not economists. They make their decisions for their individual benefit and in terms they can understand and assess. They know what a $4500 free gift is. They understand it. They do not deal with trillions of dollars; they do not conduct ever-increasing auctions of Treasury notes and bonds; they do not deal in foreign exchange and reserve transfers. That is not their fault. The have daily lives to live and they are facing their own struggles.

    So they delegate some of these borrowing and spending decisions to the Congress because they have no other choice. In the House the long term is limited to the two years until the next election cycle is faced. So the House will easily exchange $1 billion in spending for $50 million in added budget interest.

    Thus we have an asymmetric exchange. We gratify now; we borrow to do it; we defer the day of reckoning; it grows bigger and bigger but seems to be perpetually deferred. Every once in a while a crisis unfolds and the system fails, as it did with Lehman Brothers last September. That triggers a new round of upward ratcheting of this asymmetric system.”

  18. constantnormal says:

    Off Topic (as is all the nonsensical parsing of “government largesse” — it means what it says, just check the dictionary) … but, can anyone enlighten me as to a good story behind the apparent inverse relationship between the equities markets and the US dollar?

    If we were a big-time export nation, and had healthy foreign markets to sell into, I could see such a thing, but as we are still a net importer, it would seem that the rising cost of imports would hurt companies more than the exports help. And as noted, we are still a bigger importer than exporter.

    It almost looks as if this is a reflection of money being pushed out of the debt markets into the equities markets, by declining bond valuations, spurred by the shrinking Treasuries, and the compounding/cascading into other areas of the debt markets. Perhaps it is intentional, an attempt to entice sideline cash into the rising stock markets? As if perhaps rising stock prices would entice companies to re-hire laid off workers? (I know how crazy that sounds …)

    If so, one must wonder about the wisdom of that as an apparent policy decision, given the outlook for corporate revenue and the sky-high level of stock valuations.

    I’m looking for better stories here than my feeble mind can come up with.

  19. manhattanguy says:

    “Perhaps it is intentional, an attempt to entice sideline cash into the rising stock markets? As if perhaps rising stock prices would entice companies to re-hire laid off workers?”

    @constantnormal: i think the same way as you do. Don’t think this “Make believe” theory is going to work though.

  20. call me ahab says:

    dan duncan-

    here, here- won’t do any good though

    cvienne-

    the clunker program only expedited someone’s purchase by a few months- for those who cannot afford a new car- the program is obviously irrelevant regardelss if $4500 is being handed out for cars w/ little value- for those who can afford a new car- well- the car they own will be traded in a bit sooner than expected- thanks to a free $4500 from Uncle Sam-

    what is the purpose? to speed up economic decisions- to force people to borrow and spend now- that’s all Uncle Sam ever asks of its people- “to go out and buy something”-

    pretty inspirational stuff

  21. franklin411 says:

    @HCF
    Hogwash. So you’re saying that once capital is allocated from a taxpayer through the government into an investment, such as a road, a school, or an R+D grant, it magically disappears?

    Of course not. Government investment creates wealth in the same way that private investment does. The two are exactly the same. The only difference is that government investment *can* be a democratic process, while private investment is not. (unless you believe in the kabuki theater that is the shareholder voting process).

  22. constantnormal says:

    Back on-topic … GM to lay off about 7500 more workes before year-end.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/04/business/04gm.html

    An unspecified number of salaried positions are also expected to be eliminated.

    I’m pretty sure that this is without regard to how many car sales C4C brings in.

    I’m just noting the story here — for the record, I think that this is exactly what GM needs to do, downsize their company to fit the downsized market. I expect a lot of other companies to be taking this route as it becomes apparent that the global/national economy is not going to bounce back to the size that it used to be. The companies that shrink themselves fastest to fit the new realities will be the ones that are still around when actual economic growth opportunities do present themselves, many years into the future.

  23. constantnormal says:

    @cvienne 1:00 pm

    The Clusterstock chart-of-the-day last Friday was entitled “Thank God for Government Spending”, with a chart showing the effect of government spending on the GDP (Franklin will love it).

    http://www.businessinsider.com/chart-of-the-day-gdp-vs-government-spending-2009-7

    All I could see was that the “gains” would be offset by later “losses” as that spending would have to be recouped by future taxes (plus interest). So long as the expansion of the economy is less than the interest on that debt, it’s a losing proposition. Gonna be a long, LONG time before the dead weight of debt from all this spending is lifted from our shoulders. We may even have to cut federal aid to education in order to get enough leverage to pay down our ever-increasing debt load.

    It’s not that I object in principle to government stimulus during hard times, but I would like to see a measure of logic and reason applied, instead of the usual feeding frenzy at the pork trough. I’m thinking that less than 10% of the stimulus+bailouts were actually helpful to the economy and nation (probably closer to 2%), with the remainder actively working to have the economy+nation.

  24. call me ahab says:

    From CNBC-

    “The rise in long-term unemployment is a puzzle for economists. The Congressional Budget Office studied it in 2007 and concluded merely that the shift was “hard to explain.”

    wow- a puzzle no less- let’s see if I can tackle it- manufacturing is contracting, high paying manufacturing jobs are lost, only jobs available are low paying service related jobs- hmm . . . could be part of the problem- also-

    if one were to change careers- then to what? where is the growth industry?- and if to retrain- retrain to what?

    not everyone can be a nurse and teacher if this is where all the incredible investment from the USG is to go- right franklin?

    from the same article-

    “Retraining is the usual prescription, but pay and benefits in new careers are often far worse. Ex-auto workers who once made $28 an hour can now expect more like $9.”

    so the problem is- there is no where to go but down in living standard-

    http://www.cnbc.com/id/32266933

  25. super_trooper says:

    @constantnormal Says:
    “The companies that shrink themselves fastest to fit the new realities will be the ones that are still around when actual economic growth opportunities do present themselves, many years into the future.”

    Speculation, speculation. Shrinking isn’t quite the issue. It’s just numbers. It’s about having the “best” ppl left and cutting the right ppl. Since we don’t live in a merit based society this rarely happens. Most companies go wrong and cut the “wrong” people that will be needed for future growth.

  26. super_trooper says:

    @call me ahab,
    “not everyone can be a nurse and teacher if this is where all the incredible investment from the USG is to go”
    Teacher are being cut in most states. How much can the health care system continue growing? We’re at 18% of GDP. No end in sight? I doubt there will be money to pay for a substantial growth in the nurse profession.

  27. willid3 says:

    ST, I think most companies do it based on one thing only. cost. if you cost more than your coworker, you will be first.
    and most companies will do the first thing that comes to mind .

    send the jobs elsewhere where its cheaper.

    and then wonder why they keep having to do that as they loose even more potential customers

    sounds like a good plan if going out of business is the goal

  28. call me ahab says:

    trooper-

    rhetorical statement re nurses and teachers- it is in response to the refrain- “more investment in education and healthcare” that is repeated tirelessly-

    as if it means anything

  29. willid3 says:

    call me ahab Says:
    August 3rd, 2009 at 2:03 pm

    From CNBC-

    “The rise in long-term unemployment is a puzzle for economists. The Congressional Budget Office studied it in 2007 and concluded merely that the shift was “hard to explain.”

    its easy to explain their inability to figure it out. they have blinders on
    as you said, the high paying (non management/executive jobs) are being sent else where as fast as possible.
    have been for almost a decade, but nobody wants (or wanted to) change that
    and we have the great equalization
    our standard of living will match the BRIC countries ASAP
    and then companies will wonder who they can sell to and why nobody is buying

  30. cvienne says:

    @ahab

    By the looks of things we need more BANKERS…

    It seems they’re the only ones providing any economic growth! (rolls eyes)

  31. Tom K says:

    “Government investment creates wealth in the same way that private investment does. The two are exactly the same.”

    Talk about “hogwash”

    Government takes wealth, it doesn’t create wealth. There is a fundamental difference.

  32. Bruce N Tennessee says:

    Franklin:

    Why don’t you take that “government and private wealth creation are exactly the same” nonsense over to Mish’s blog? They tolerate fools with a lot less civilty over there…and if you come back missing some body parts maybe you’ll think before you post…

  33. Bruce N Tennessee says:

    civility, he said..

  34. call me ahab says:

    cvienne-

    to tell you the truth cvienne- this rally looks like the biggest of fantasies- as if it will help the economy or even represesnt the “new” economy of marginal growth and a large permanent underclass of unemployed and under-employed who are scraping by and using various government assistance programs to survive- indefinitely-

    it only signifies- that the quickly disappearing middle class are irrelevant

    willid-

    you and I are on the same page my friend- lower living standards on the horizon-

    cvienne-

    another thought- what is your impression of the $- slow and steady devalution?

  35. HCF says:

    @franklin:
    > Of course not. Government investment creates wealth in the same way that private investment does.

    If that is true, then the government should own all means of production, as it is so efficient and all… Who needs pesky shareholders and competitors when Big Brother will protect us all?

    HCF

  36. Cursive says:

    We had this same discussion last night and no one stepped forward to explain how the Energy Department and the Education Department have brought us better, more affordable energy and a more educated populace. Let me up the challenge – can any defender of government power explain how it is that we’ve gotten into this financial crisis when the Federal Reserve was created to avoid the very problem they’ve gotten us into? Why do we accept that our dollar has been consistently devalued since 2000? This is criminal.

  37. bubba says:

    all you “big-bad-evil-gubmint” folks remind me of the “Keep your government hands off my Medicare!” fella.

    somebody commented on another thread that they didn’t think there were any useful Gov’t Dept other than the DOJ and DOD. I suppose if and when the pig flu goes “viral” DOD can send in Rangers and Seals to quarantine/ and execute if necessary all those infected and DOJ can incarcerate those who don’t comply.

  38. call me ahab says:

    bubba-

    so . . .what agency do you work for?

  39. Cursive says:

    @ bubba

    Now that’s the most realistic view of government power I’ve read on here in a long time. Remember, it was the government that interned American-born Japanese during WWI. It was the government that conducted experiments on the Tuskegee airmen. So, your concept of the government executing and incarcerating citizens in the future fits the nightmare that many have if we keep ceding more and more power to the Leviathan.

  40. Onlooker from Troy says:

    Don’t feed the trolls! :) They’ll “die” of starvation if you ignore them; usually.
    ______________________

  41. Thor says:

    Yes – listen to Troy, he speaks wisdom! :p

  42. Onlooker from Troy says:

    “It’s not that I object in principle to government stimulus during hard times,…”

    Using this thought to jump off of, this is an interesting perspective on Keynes:

    Why Keynes is Irrelevant

    It’s wonderful to be able to stimulate the economy counter-cyclically, but it’s only truly effective if you work both ends of the cycle, not just the downturn. And we’re gonna bankrupt our country very soon, regardless of all the rationalizations and deficit apologists that abound. And it doesn’t matter who got us here, we’re tapped out and don’t have the luxury of more profligate spending. We’re truly becoming more and more a nation of immature children.

  43. Mortimus says:

    Nothing to see here folks, nothing to see here at all, just keep moving along
    http://www.calculatedriskblog.com/2009/08/us-raids-colonial-bank-office.html

  44. cvienne says:

    @ahab

    “what is your impression of the $- slow and steady devalution?”

    Probably the dollar has to decline much further…However, it appears to be a crowded trade at the moment to be short the dollar and long commodities, given what I feel to be false signals with regards to a recovery or end of recession chatter.

  45. FrancoisT says:

    Debate is not my forte; this time tough, I can’t stay on the sidelines.

    Franklin wrote:

    “So you’re saying that once capital is allocated from a taxpayer through the government into an investment, such as a road, a school, or an R+D grant, it magically disappears?”

    a statement for which he took quite a bit of flack. Re:

    —————–
    Bruce N Tennessee Says:
    August 3rd, 2009 at 2:42 pm

    “Franklin:

    Why don’t you take that “government and private wealth creation are exactly the same” nonsense over to Mish’s blog? They tolerate fools with a lot less civilty over there…and if you come back missing some body parts maybe you’ll think before you post…”

    —————

    Tom K Says:
    August 3rd, 2009 at 2:35 pm

    ““Government investment creates wealth in the same way that private investment does. The two are exactly the same.”

    Talk about “hogwash”

    Government takes wealth, it doesn’t create wealth. There is a fundamental difference.”

    ————–

    and so on and so forth.

    Sigh! Would it kill anyone to make an attempt at analyzing the potential role of the Govermin in wealth creation, instead of regurgitating rhetoric that boils down to:”The Govermin is bad, because…it’s bad!” Circular logic deluxe.

    My 2 cents:

    There are 2 things the Govermin does with tax money: redistribute and invest. Yes! Invest…in roads, basic scientific research, in human capital etc. By the way folks, didn’t they just pass a GI Bill…that is an investment is human capital, isn’t it? Unless any REMF out there has the nerve to sully the service of our men and women in uniform by characterizing this bill as a handout.

    Moreover, it just so happen that some of these investments was the necessary seed to grow entire sectors of the US economy.

    3 examples I can think of:

    1) The National Institute of Health does a LOT of basic research into drug candidates. If I recall correctly, 25% of all the drugs that land on the US market were originally discovered at the NIH labs. If this is not wealth, I don’t know what qualifies.

    2) When the Apollo missions were started, engineers had a particularly vexing problem: space navigation is very calculus intensive, hence, not really suited for abacus processing. They needed powerful machines to automate calculations in a very reduced space and very energy efficient. Let’s remember that at the time, the private sector was enjoying big profits for selling big mainframes. Where were the incentives to shrink those mainframes? “What’s in it for me NOW?” would have been the private sector answer. So, NASA, another of those Govermin agencies, were left with devising solutions.

    What did the solutions to these problems brought us? The personal computer industry. Remind me again how much wealth was created?

    3) Nuclear explosions create a very powerful magnetic field that can fry any electronics. That’s a real bummer when the communication technology is point-to-point, You’re the military and you NEED to ensure basic communications in such a scenario. What to do? You talk about your problem with DARPA, and there you go: the Internet is born. Any wealth here?

    NOW, feel free to flame me if so inclined. :-)

  46. bubba says:

    @ahab
    I’m a basic science researcher. most of our funding comes from big bad evil gubmint. We do useless things like trying to figure out the pathogenesis of various diseases and ailments in order to facilitate development of treatments (eg drugs and therapeutics) that I’m sure none of you “gubmint is the problem not the solution” types have ever taken.

    @OT so now I’m a troll? Barry’s site has really become a haven for dittoheads. sad.

  47. leftback says:

    @Bubba:

    That sounds like a useful occupation, indeed. One must have to be awfully clever to do that I imagine.

    LB writing from Mayfair today, visiting Schadenfreude’s UK offices, where the same themes are playing out here as in New York. A rip-roaring rally on Barclays earnings today, accompanied by mock outrage headlines in the Evening Standard on the size of bankster bonuses, and a lot of happy talk on the Beeb about a V-shaped recovery engineered by Good Old Gordon. It’s uncanny really, and sort of makes you wonder whether in addition to ONE TRADE (a big $ carry trade going on in Europe) that maybe there is also just ONE COUNTRY of Bankistan….

  48. call me ahab says:

    bubba-

    when did I say “gubmint is the problem not the solution”? Government has its merits- sounds like what you do is beneficial- however- you have to agree there are agencies which have outlived their usefulness that continue to get funding- no?

    also- when you brought up your counterpoint @ 3:13- you appear to have a huge chip on your shoulder- no?

  49. call me ahab says:

    and bubba-

    please refer to FrancoisT’s post- many good examples showing USG investments that were a success- made his point quite well-

    don’t you think?

  50. call me ahab says:

    lftbk-

    greetings to you in London- cvienne posted this earlier to my query @2:45- would be interested to hear your take-

    “Probably the dollar has to decline much further…However, it appears to be a crowded trade at the moment to be short the dollar and long commodities, given what I feel to be false signals with regards to a recovery or end of recession chatter.”

    any further observations?

  51. bubba says:

    @leftback

    “That sounds like a useful occupation, indeed. One must have to be awfully clever to do that I imagine.”

    Indeed I am, clever beyond my wildest imagination (just ask my wife). But YOU, sir, humble me. It must take no less an ensteinian intellect to come up with all your witty riposte. And not to mention the impossibly difficult task of managing, what was it called again? shitinfart asshat manage something something right?

  52. Thor says:

    Bubba & LB – What’s going on? Is this some sort of English cat fight? All polite words and double meaning spoken in very soft voices? ;-)

  53. FrancoisT says:

    In an earlier post, I wrote about the fact that implementing renewable energy conversion systems made business sense, as well as creating lots of jobs.

    Alas, I didn’t quantify the business case. Allow me to correct this omission by referring readers to a recent McKinsey study on the topic at:

    http://www.mckinsey.com/clientservice/electricpowernaturalgas/US_energy_efficiency/

    If we combine energy efficiencies and renewable systems implementation, with off-the-shelf technologies, we’re talking about a 250 billions investment…for a return of ~1.2 trillions within the next decade.

    Not bad! However, the authors warned that barriers remain and they’re persistent. It would requires leadership (the very thing we haven’t had in DC for ages) and carefully crafted incentives and standards. The stuff that make interest groups cringe.

  54. Blissex says:

    Real Americans know that nobody should worry about the worthless parasites that nobody wants to hire. People who are worth something are still employed. As to the ballast of exploitative parasites, well, nobody gives a damn about LOSERS in Real America. Just talking about them can bring bad luck, except perhaps to remark that millions of them are finally no longer being allowed to steal and steal from their superiors via the tax and welfare system. Real American last thought about these vicious exploiters is “good riddance”.

    Real Americans much prefer to think and celebrate about the WINNERS, the heroes of creation and production, Real American giants like Mozilo, ONeal, Lay, Fuld, Cayne, who have created hundreds if not billions of wealth single individually, despite brutal exploitation and persecution by a ravenously greedy class of government profiteers.

    Who is Angelo Mozilo? For Real American he is a man who has created hope and capital gains for dozens of millions of Real Americans who wanted to MAKE-MONEY-FAST realizing their Real American Dream!

    Real Americans think that producers and creators like him should be given accolades and prizes to acknowledge their stupendous contribution the the USA GDP, and for allowing some of the wealth they have made to trickle down.

    :-)

  55. manhattanguy says:

    @cv: your prediction of S&P topping 1008 might come earlier than you predicted (hint: tomorrow). But a big question to everyone here is when is this house of cards going to collapse.

  56. Onlooker from Troy says:

    bubba

    LOL wow you’re a sensitive one. I was talking about f411, of course. geez

  57. Onlooker from Troy says:

    Hey ben. Maybe a bit of social mood change starting to reflect in our own fair blog’s comment section, eh?

    bubba
    get over yourself and don’t come throwing vitriole around and not expect it to come back atcha; or I might just call you a troll.

  58. cvienne says:

    @manhattanguy

    I’m ready to toss that one out as well…

    I do think 1007-1008 might act as some temporary resistance though…

    The velocity of this movement the past 3 weeks got me thinking of when I remembered such an unrelenting push up…The answer…10/98 (after the bottom was reached after the LTCM fiasco)…

    The low point AFTER the first real correction on that move (which has about the same vector as the March 6th lows to here) came on 10/18/99…If you trendline that through the 10/14 high last October (during the high volatility days)…You’d come out around 1029 in the present period…

    Incidently, a parallel line to that line rouughly connects the LTCM low, to the 2002 lows, the March 2003 retest, and the March 2009 lows…

    So I don’t know…Maybe that is some kind of large channel that’s in the process of being formed…

    At this point I’m willing to look at anything…

  59. franklin420d says:

    @ Troy the Onlooker,

    Whoaaaaa dude, pretty knarly stuff, but my little bro ain’t so bad. Mom always said he was a little uptight and all, I try and get him to chill with me, but you know him he’s all about the 411 – information, not me man I am all about the 420. Yea, unemployment ROCKS

  60. Bruce in Tn says:

    Francois T:

    No one here doubts the place of government. But government as a creator of wealth. ???? If that is what you are bringing to the discussion….fine.

    Go ahead…goodnight.

  61. Bruce in Tn says:

    Before bedtime…Francois.T.

    I would submit to you that NASA since the moon landings has been one big black hole in and of itself. Instead of pushing to the planets or the moons of some of the gas giants we are putting up shuttle missions with nearly zero return on money. This is sheer Ben Steinery. If you aren’t interested in colonization or mining the moons, then send up unmanned satellites until you are and save the money.
    The space shuttle is a huge waste of time and money.

    You are welcome…..

  62. bubba says:

    here’s something for all you “privateers” to ponder….

    would a pharmaceutical company that has cornered the market on a drug for a certain chronic disease be interested in pouring research money into finding a cure for said disease?

  63. Blissex says:

    «would a pharmaceutical company that has cornered the market on a drug for a certain chronic disease be interested in pouring research money into finding a cure for said disease?»

    Well, it depends: if it is likely to increases the profits of the company management are legally required to find the cure, if it would not increase those profits then it is illegal for the company and its management to waste shareholder capital to find the cure.

    If someone finds this monstrous, the (liberal) answer to that is that it is the job of the state to prevent companies from cornering markets, or if they are allowed to do so it must be for really compelling reasons, and maybe it is the job of the state then to fund the research or to create incentives for other private companies to do so. And as always, remembering that you cannot win in every case, sometimes stuff happens.