We have not updated this chart in quite a while: Here is the chart version of Treasury’s “Withheld Income and Employment Taxes.”
>
Daily Treasury Statement, dated August 26, 2009.
>
http://www.trivisonno.com/withholding-taxes-chart
Please use the comments to demonstrate your own ignorance, unfamiliarity with empirical data, ability to repeat discredited memes, and lack of respect for scientific knowledge. Also, be sure to create straw men and argue against things I have neither said nor even implied. Any irrelevancies you can mention will also be appreciated. Lastly, kindly forgo all civility in your discourse . . . you are, after all, anonymous.
"Overall household indebtedness is up from $7 trillion to almost $10 trillion since 2000. On this sum, we estimate, the American consumer has an annual interest bill of more than $500 billion; a sum, by the way, that vastly exceeds his current income growth." —Kurt Richebacher
"The Greek offer is not sufficient and they have to go away to come up with a revised plan," said a spokesman for the German Finance Ministry. The Greeks must first have a plan that satisfies the Germans which this comment states they clearly don't yet and then the Greek Parliament will vote on it this weekend. This said, whatever package gets voted on in Greece is basically an up or down vote on euro membership so we are entering another uncertain weekend for global markets. A failed vote will likely lead to a hard default which may be what...
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August 28th, 2009 at 8:14 am
the Narrative that would, rightly, caption such a pictograph must be as a Siren’s song to today’s Sailors tacking toward the ever-burgeoning excrescence of Paperback denominated claims..
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/excrescence
August 28th, 2009 at 8:30 am
I thought Bush’s lower tax rates meant a higher tax take.
August 28th, 2009 at 8:34 am
just on observation, last high too low was 10 months, we started from a lower high and are now 8 months into it, now does anyone really think tax revenue is going too swing back up????
August 28th, 2009 at 8:41 am
this is a very very simple chart that succinctly illustrates 1) the truth about how screwed the consumer is and 2) the truth about how screwed the gov’t is
August 28th, 2009 at 8:43 am
And, it is a very real time, coincidental (rather than lagging) indicator as to economic activity such as a) employment and. b) wages & income.
August 28th, 2009 at 8:46 am
to show solidarity for disapproval to the bailouts of the TBTF banks- i wish the whole country would go on a tax revolt-
seeing that employers have a statutory requirement to withhold taxes out of their employees pay- (an unpaid fiduciary responsibility)- a tax revolt would be hard to achieve-
so maybe people will find other ways to show their disapproval-
people are not the proud American’s they once were
August 28th, 2009 at 8:57 am
How the hell do you measure that other American “aren’t proud?” that’s ridiculous.
Put me down in the proud American column.
Sorry you missed the rally.
August 28th, 2009 at 8:57 am
Is there any way to see the total tax receipts including corporate taxes? I think the total drop must be even steeper given all the write offs.
August 28th, 2009 at 9:01 am
@VennData
“I thought Bush’s lower tax rates meant a higher tax take.”
Presumably, what the chart illustrates speaks more about unemployment, than the actual tax rates. If you lay over a line which indicates unemployment numbers, it would probably be evident.
August 28th, 2009 at 9:03 am
I assumed, perhaps incorrectly, that this was wage withholding only.
August 28th, 2009 at 9:05 am
It’s obvious the rate of decline is slowing, another greenshoot!
Less discretionary income and larger fed deficits – thats the ticket!
August 28th, 2009 at 9:16 am
It looks like tax receipts climbed pretty sharply for several quarters after the Bush tax cuts were implemented.
Didn’t Obama promise us that the unemployment rate wouldn’t rise above 8% if the $787 billion spending bill passed? It’s interesting that you’d rather blame policies implemented over half a decade ago rather than the failed policies implemented in the current year.
Don’t worry. Your Messiah’s failed Keynesian policies are going to get bailed out by the business cycle, just like Bush got bailed out by the cycle. 3Q and 4Q are going to be gangbusters for GDP. The strong pickup in the economy should translate into higher tax receipts.
Also, assuming half of the $4 trillion of equity wealth that’s been created since March is in taxable accounts, and assuming the average gain is half the maximum gain, the govenment is going to get a nice little windfall when those folks sell.
August 28th, 2009 at 9:20 am
venndata-
that you measure your pride in America by a rally in stocks that were fueled by government captialization of failed banks speaks volumes
August 28th, 2009 at 9:21 am
Where is Art Laffer when u need him.
August 28th, 2009 at 9:25 am
@Groty
“Also, assuming half of the $4 trillion of equity wealth that’s been created since March is in taxable accounts, and assuming the average gain is half the maximum gain, the govenment is going to get a nice little windfall when those folks sell.”
Well if they want those receipts coming in next year, they’d better engineer a little stock market correction here pretty soon.
August 28th, 2009 at 9:30 am
Groty, I like that, covering the deficit with paper gains LOL
August 28th, 2009 at 9:34 am
The circus is open. Let’s see how high the freaks will push the indexes today. Meanwhile in the real economy things are not looking that great…
August 28th, 2009 at 9:38 am
“Consumer spending is the big question mark as the economy struggles to emerge from the recession. Economists worry that households hurt by rising unemployment, weak income growth and depleted investments will not provide the support the economy needs to rebound to sustained growth.”
come on consumers- you can do it- “go out and buy something”- your country needs you
August 28th, 2009 at 9:41 am
to Groty at 9:16am
can we hail ya the military industrial complex
oh and the buildings industry boom
and back back just off the chart the internet and all its benefits to us all ie Tech … and HDtv
August 28th, 2009 at 9:42 am
Futures are running around, lol.
August 28th, 2009 at 9:43 am
call me ahab Says:
people are not the proud American’s they once were
VennData Says:
How the hell do you measure that other American “aren’t proud?” that’s ridiculous.
____________
Patriotism is is more ego than pride. We’ve been a pretty bad actor, as a nation and in many aspects over the past 60 years, or so (not that we haven’t done good, but then, doing good in some things is not a license to do bad in others).
Am I proud of America? Not really. We’re debtors. We practice military, economic, and political interference in places where we have little or no business interfering, and we are unapologetic when exposed or when our meddling backfires and people are hurt or killed as a result (check Smedly Butler’s comments on this topic). We torture. We “disappear” people without charge or determination of guilt or innocence, and we leave their families wondering whatever happened to them (I’d say we took a page out of the Chilean playbook, but then, we wrote the Chilean playbook). We are hypocrites — we sponsor big ideas and high ideals, but we decline to sign on when those ideas and ideals are adopted (think World Court/Kyoto treaty, among others). We have squandered our moral authority. I’m proud of our Constitution, but I’d be more proud if we were smart enough and had the integrity to understand it and live within its bounds, as well as recognizing that its basic tenets apply, or should apply, to all people, everywhere. We falsely and proudly cite our “Judeo-Christian” foundation (that’s not what we were founded on), while we practice, elevate, and celebrate blatant greed and avarice.
Do I care for my fellow Americans? Yes. Am I proud of America? Not so much.
Misplaced or undeserved pride is is not pride, per se — it’s patriotism.
As for tax revenues, all of the pie-in-the-sky mumbo jumbo about less taxes meaning more revenues is about to smack up against the harsh reality of mathematics and balance sheets.
August 28th, 2009 at 9:46 am
So what does this say about the BEA personal income report. Unless tax rates have fallen Q/Q, as also pointed out on another blog, this graph shows the data on personal Income is BS and is much worse than reported. As well employment must be continuing to deteriorate. Less tax collected = less wages…fairly straight forward when the negative change Q/Q is this large.
August 28th, 2009 at 9:47 am
@Grotty
“Also, assuming half of the $4 trillion of equity wealth that’s been created since March is in taxable accounts, and assuming the average gain is half the maximum gain, the govenment is going to get a nice little windfall when those folks sell.”
True, people who sold in October 2007 and bought in March 2009 and will sell again before the next leg down will owe a lot of taxes. That’s probably hundreds, if not thousands of people.
The other 300 million or so will just offset their gains by their carry-over losses…
August 28th, 2009 at 9:48 am
“Futures are running around, lol.”
Little doubt, not without a bit of officially sanctioned and sponsored “prodding”.
August 28th, 2009 at 9:49 am
and back back back back off the chart .. investment in foreign lands to bring them into our dream economy world
… now just gotta get balanced without a civil war here on my homeland .. the reinvestment vehicle of choice for the WTO .. ito (in their opinion) America deserves it .. imo
August 28th, 2009 at 9:50 am
Groty Says:
_____
“It looks like tax receipts climbed pretty sharply for several quarters after the Bush tax cuts were implemented.”
But they lasted for most of his term, and were continued by Obama, yet their power to generate revenue seems to have dissipated.
_____
“Didn’t Obama promise us that the unemployment rate wouldn’t rise above 8% if the $787 billion spending bill passed?”
I don’t think it was a promise, but if you could link to anything Obama said that would indicate it was a promise, I’ll get on board and call for his immediate impeachment.
_____
“It’s interesting that you’d rather blame policies implemented over half a decade ago rather than the failed policies implemented in the current year.”
The policies enacted in the current year did not arise out of a vacuum. They were not enacted simply because they could be enacted. They were enacted because of a long period of failed and foolish political and economic policies had finally born fruit.
August 28th, 2009 at 9:51 am
Groty:
Oh, yeah — drop the “Messiah” crap.
August 28th, 2009 at 9:57 am
@Marcus Aurelius
Add to that list…We bail out miscreants!
August 28th, 2009 at 9:58 am
This tax receipts problem can be quickly be solved with Cash for Taxes.
Everyone’s hourly wage or salary is doubled. This increase will be paid by the government. This is an obvious positive as the average hourly rate will increase. The increases will carry a 100% withholding tax. This will reverse the decline in withholding tax receipts the government is seeing. Clearly this is another green shoot.
The same “logic” can be applied to any cash for nonsense program.
August 28th, 2009 at 10:03 am
That looks like a pretty solid situation. I’m sure this is all going to work out swimmingly.
Maybe the Feds can start doing garage sales like California. That would be awesome for the retailers if all the states and Federal government started selling a bunch of their crap on the cheap.
“Salvation Army Nation”
August 28th, 2009 at 10:04 am
marcus-
agreed- invading or attacking other countries is not what we are about- ready and able to defend ourselves- sure- but-
a policy of preemption- not sure that is who we should be-
also- the USG aiding and abetting failed instititutions and their “master of the universe” executives at the expense of the regular folk has me apoplectic-
and that people are not held accountable is inexcusable-
just sends me over the edge thinking about it
August 28th, 2009 at 10:07 am
If worse comes to worse, we can always just start collecting the free sugar from IHOP and Denny’s and then try to make deliver against the NYBOT sugar contract….Sugar is at all time high again.
August 28th, 2009 at 10:08 am
ahab:
Shit’s driving me crazy, too. It ain’t easy, brother.
August 28th, 2009 at 10:09 am
Andy T – if you remember i called out on the sugar trade 2 weeks ago. I think it is about to collapse soon.
August 28th, 2009 at 10:10 am
@Andy T
Sugar is just trying to keep up with AIG
August 28th, 2009 at 10:15 am
marcus, that is how I feel also, a little saddened due to the potential for much more with little effort and more attention too core values, ie, not christian ones, constitutional ones, countries act like people for the most part, leave em alone and they should prosper, do not meddle, etc……..Funny story, my brother a card carrying Rush boy, yes, he’s a white salesman, real estate. We just got off the phone, obviously folks are taking action on the 8k, and what is the talk in the industry he is hearing, Will it be continued? I explained to him how it worked, he did not care, people were buying because of the credit, unless someone has too move, and the industry now needs it……………i changed the subject.
August 28th, 2009 at 10:17 am
just on observation, last high too low was 10 months, we started from a lower high and are now 8 months into it, now does anyone really think tax revenue is going too swing back up????
———-
Will swing back up when inflation picks up.
August 28th, 2009 at 10:19 am
@ahab;
Without a moral and ethical underpinning Patriotism is nothing more than rhetoric.
August 28th, 2009 at 10:21 am
Am I “proud” of America?
As we made plans this morning to attend tonight’s season-opening football game for my kid’s high school–the “game of the week” according to the front page of the local fishwrap–I pointed out that football is a uniquely American sport, as well it should be. It involves taking and colonizing land that belongs to someone else–the very essence of America’s founding.
Whether that’s something to be proud of, I don’t know. It just is. But make no mistake. America did not become great because it was inherently good. It became great because it used the best ideas of 10,000 years of civilization to relentlessly and rapaciously grow. It justified its steamrolling of other cultures by adopting a patina of morality and manifest destiny, but that was just rationalization of the same type that everyone must do to survive even a day. Along the way, growth became its raison d’etre, but continual growth is a false premise, as we are now beginning to learn.
I suppose I should have warned that this is way off-topic.
August 28th, 2009 at 10:21 am
torrie-amos:
The middle-class or better beneficiary of government largess seldom sees it as welfare or, in the case of a “conservative” recipient, as something that would conflict with their political principles. Remember this: Rush called for the most severe penalties for drug abusers, but when caught abusing drugs himself, played the victim (of life, the liberal left, and the “media”). Speaks volumes.
August 28th, 2009 at 10:21 am
We are a culturally, morally, ethically, and financially bankrupt nation. Rome Part Deux. Everyone getting their piece of the action while they can. That’s our economy now.
August 28th, 2009 at 10:22 am
When AIG hits 100, they should put it back in the Dow…as a price weighted index, it will soar as AIG hits 200.
August 28th, 2009 at 10:31 am
I guess the good news that Intel’s revenue will not be down y/y as much as expected must have already been discounted as the early buzz is gone…Nas about to go negative. This could mean a top is finally here. Paying 40 times for Nasdaq with declining earnings may need a second look.
August 28th, 2009 at 10:31 am
manhattan guy. well done on the sugar trade. Just FYI, I issued a technical report on sugar on 8/10/09, at 21.78 (oct), suggesting that we would see congestion but would eventually make new highs. I think we’re in the process of finishing the larger third wave now…maybe 25-26 and then lapse into a much bigger congestive pattern before ultimately peaking in late Nov/early Dec.
August 28th, 2009 at 10:32 am
@Steve Barry: They probably will! Actually, they should just create a new index consisting entirely of bailed out Zombie companies. Can call it the “Gravy Train Index”. Unemployed day traders can get paper-rich off of trading these stocks to one another. Will be much easier than the home flipping racket. Off course, it will all end in tears for the bagholders again but will be a lot of fun counting the money while these stocks rise.
August 28th, 2009 at 10:32 am
@SB,
AIG will not get to 100, the rally is nearly over. I’m sure I don’t need to tell you about patience. The rally has offered up some unreal short opps imo over the last several days.
Did everyone see this, I watched the CNBC special on him earlier this week.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=aPxwGsRR3s3M
August 28th, 2009 at 10:33 am
“I pointed out that football is a uniquely American sport, as well it should be. It involves taking and colonizing land that belongs to someone else–the very essence of America’s founding.”
tc- so true- but just as the season is about to kick off? Have a son moving up to JV this year- he is pretty good- usually starts defense and offense-
but now every time I see his team march down the field I will think there is something inherently wrong with their forward progress- lol
August 28th, 2009 at 10:33 am
While I’m off-topic, in the WSJ today, an article about the FDIC had this little nugget:
“The FDIC’s insurance fund, which guards $6.2 trillion in U.S. deposits, fell to $10.4 billion at the quarter’s end, the lowest since mid-1993.”
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125137695691263385.html
~Hmm, $10 billion to cover $6.2 trillion? Who does the FDIC think they are, AIG? Unless I added the zero’s wrong, that’s 620x leverage–even GS might blanch at that.
August 28th, 2009 at 10:35 am
Curmudgeon:
True, all that. BTW: the thread is OT, but relevant. I find it difficult to let a political/econ comment I disagree with go without response (I do try to apply my responses to the topic).
That said, and re: income tax revenues: When the consuming (income tax paying) 99% of the public is tapped out, where will the government turn for money? Will they print, or will they tax corporations and the top 1%?
August 28th, 2009 at 10:38 am
@Marcus: I think you know the answer already. They will print until it all blows up, most definitely.
August 28th, 2009 at 10:39 am
@Ahab…
good for your son. And don’t get me wrong, I love football. I played for nine years. But my son plays in the band. Darn! (although I’d never let him hear me say it).
August 28th, 2009 at 10:42 am
“I pointed out that football is a uniquely American sport, as well it should be. It involves taking and colonizing land that belongs to someone else–the very essence of America’s founding.”
So, what should we make about the massive increase in popularity of MMA fighting? It’s a bear market sport if I’ve ever seen one. Watch also for the demise of basketball, a bull market sport, which has us aiming for higher goals.
August 28th, 2009 at 10:55 am
“the demise of basketball, a bull market sport, which has us aiming for higher goals.”
lol- but i can only assume you mean the NBA- i don’t see NCAA going anywhere-
very cheap sport of you think about it- easy for a school to field a team
August 28th, 2009 at 10:57 am
“Will they print, or will they tax corporations and the top 1%?”
Probably both, but going back to the OT thread–except for the Civil War, America has mostly found ways to work around its problems without really confronting them, usually by just ignoring them and moving on to something else. But I don’t know what the something else might be, and I don’t know if our insolvency can be ignored. Unless something drastic changes, we’ll be needing to borrow money to buy oil for the foreseeable future, and default by devaluation would not be pretty.
August 28th, 2009 at 10:59 am
tc-
yeah- my son’s not bad- lazy though and a bit of a slacker- hates practice and conditioning- sort of like Allen Iverson in that regard
August 28th, 2009 at 11:03 am
@Stuart 9:46
http://www.bea.gov/national/nipaweb/TableView.asp?SelectedTable=58&Freq=Qtr&FirstYear=2007&LastYear=2009
“So what does this say about the BEA personal income report. Unless tax rates have fallen Q/Q, as also pointed out on another blog, this graph shows the data on personal Income is BS and is much worse than reported. As well employment must be continuing to deteriorate. Less tax collected = less wages…fairly straight forward when the negative change Q/Q is this large.”
The BEA personal income report includes transfer payments, not just wages. Unemployment insurance payments are way up, so are other safety net payments. They are taxable to some extent, but not nearly as much as wages.
August 28th, 2009 at 11:04 am
I’d be all for a new sport…
Take the concept from THE RUNNING MAN, and do it with politicians & bankers.
August 28th, 2009 at 11:14 am
Whirlpool to cut 1100 jobs
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Whirlpool-to-cut-1100-jobs-apf-1499498954.html?x=0&sec=topStories&pos=2&asset=&ccode=
But jobs doesn’t matter, does it? I hope market rally on this news.
August 28th, 2009 at 11:18 am
@manhattanguy
That’s actually a “green shoot”, because it’s a lot less jobs than that big whirlpool in Washington DC is sucking down at the moment.
August 28th, 2009 at 11:39 am
Groty Says:
“Don’t worry. Your Messiah’s failed Keynesian policies are going to get bailed out by the business cycle,”
“The strong pickup in the economy should translate into higher tax receipts.”
1. Show us your algorithm to separate the economic growth due to the “business cycle” and that due to the stimulus.
2. Demonstrate why the upturn in auto sales and home sales are merely coincidental with the klunker program and the home buyers’ subsidy.
3. Explain why tax cuts directed at those earning less than $250,000 are failures while those directed at those earning more than $250,000 are not.
Extra Credit:
A. Define the Universe.
B. Give two examples.
August 28th, 2009 at 11:40 am
Nov AIG puts @55 are $14.10
Holy cow.
August 28th, 2009 at 11:54 am
AIG has issues at this moment…kind of plunging.
August 28th, 2009 at 11:56 am
What Leona Helmsly said than must be true, “Only the little people pay taxes”. Don’t worry, Ben just got another 4 year pass to print all they need to cover the shortfall. Unfortunately municipalities and states can’t do the same thing. Sucks to be them!
August 28th, 2009 at 12:01 pm
Funny…Bill Griffith reports “AIG Continues its surge” just as it is plunging.
August 28th, 2009 at 12:02 pm
On the other hand, oct puts for slv @14 are just 53 cents.
August 28th, 2009 at 12:08 pm
Steve
Not to worry. It’s only a mere 5%. They’ll make that up in twenty minutes.
August 28th, 2009 at 12:10 pm
Oops. Should have said 10%. Forty minutes then. No problem
August 28th, 2009 at 12:11 pm
Don’t worry everyone, there’s nothing to worry about. ECRI declares no chance of a double-dip
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/US-doubledip-recession-out-of-rb-2235260180.html?x=0&sec=topStories&pos=6&asset=&ccode=
The ECRI’s director proclaims “that the recovery is moving at a stronger pace than any the United States has seen since the early 1980s.”
August 28th, 2009 at 12:15 pm
Just took a look at the AIG chart….funny stuff in the bigger picture…because of the big reverse split, i’ve never seen a chart go from 1400 to a few bucks….
To be honest…looking at the move up from the lows it looks like it has a few more “wiggles” higher to go…definitely due for a few days of lower/sideways congestion here and there….the day traders have definitely take over this name, so who knows for sure though….
August 28th, 2009 at 12:17 pm
It should be investigated why the original equity holders were not wiped out. But as everything in this country, we can’t take the full medicine and now have zombie companies, stocks and a zombie economic system.
August 28th, 2009 at 12:22 pm
Andy…you could get a bearish QQQQ candle today that engulfs the last 4-5 trading days
August 28th, 2009 at 12:27 pm
SB. It’s possible for sure in re: QQQs and it reversed from a key resistance zone: 2059 – 2062.
In re: SP500…1016 will be the pivot for sure, a break there should create small trap door to 1000 where the real battle will begin.
August 28th, 2009 at 12:39 pm
“To be honest…looking at the move up from the lows it looks like it has a few more “wiggles” higher to go…definitely due for a few days of lower/sideways congestion here”
Looks like AIG may have seen the high for now. But we need volume and price action for confirmation. At this rate it might top yesterday’s volume.
August 28th, 2009 at 1:19 pm
Some news I just came across:
401(k) Limits Set to Drop
Article published on August 28, 2009
Low inflation rates may force the IRS to impose a lower maximum contribution limit for 401(k)s next year.
An analysis by Mercer’s Washington Resource Group finds that the 2010 ceiling could fall from $16,500 to $16,000 for individuals younger than 50, while the catch-up contribution for those over 50 could go from $5,500 to $5,000, according to a report in CNN/Money.com
The limit is set by comparing the Consumer Price Index for the third quarter of the preceding year to a base level. Unless the CPI rises in August and September, the third-quarter figure could activate reductions.
The new 2010 limits will be announced on Oct. 15. The IRS, which runs the calculations, is reviewing the relevant law, a spokeswoman tells USA Today. Congress would likely step in to avert a decrease, CNN/Money says.
Only 7% of 401(k) participants actually contribute enough to be affected by lower limits, according to a Financial Engines survey cited in the CNN/Money report.
IRA contribution limits are set with a different formula, relying on the trailing 12-month CPI through August. The limits are expected to remain unchanged next year at $5,000 for individuals under 50 and $6,000 for those older.
August 28th, 2009 at 1:35 pm
Ben – Deflation anyone?
August 28th, 2009 at 2:31 pm
I said Keynesian policies are failures, so why would I defend the Bush tax cuts? I didn’t. I clearly said Bush was bailed out by the cycle, just as the Messiah will be bailed out by the cycle. It’s my belief that unless Keynesian policies are large enough to really proivde a positive shock to the economy, they are more about politicians favoring certain political constituencies than economic policy. But between government deficit spending and tax cuts, tax cuts have a more stimulative effect than government spending. At least that’s what President Obama’s economic advisor, Christinia Romer, found in her 2007 policy paper.
While Obama repeatedly said we were facing the greatest crisis since the Depression in order to sell this $787 billion spending bill, only 1/4 of the $787 billion was designed to be spent in the first year. Of that, only $85 billion has been spent through August 21, per recovery.gov. Much of that has gone to cover state’s Medicare and unemployment benefits, and social security recipients got a one time $250 payment. Maybe you can explain how $85 billion in government spending, mostly transfer payments, can account for a gigantic jump in GDP from -6.4% in 1Q to -1% in 2Q and probably a +4% when the books are closed on 3Q in a nearly $14 trillion economy? Take your best shot.
I’ll address the part of point 2 for which there is data. Ward’s indicates auto production was running at a 5 milion unit run rate in July. Annual consumption is running at about 10 million units. Clunkers was responsble for only 700,000 units. It’s obvious production must increase dramatically just to meet the demand IN EXCESS of clunkers.
August 28th, 2009 at 3:06 pm
Groty Says:
“account for a gigantic jump in GDP from -6.4% in 1Q to -1% in 2Q”
Total government spending increased by 11% in 2Q. At 30% of GDP that’s an input of +3.3% without which the 2Q GDP would have been -4.3%.
August 28th, 2009 at 3:46 pm
@ Groty
There’s a reason why production and consumption weren’t in line, way too much inventory from overcapacity. Here’s a visual
http://static.guim.co.uk/Guardian/business/gallery/2009/jan/16/automotive/xnissan-6163.jpg
That’s a Nissan car testing track in the UK from earlier this year.
August 28th, 2009 at 4:34 pm
I don’t measure my pride in being an American by a rally. I don’t reject my country because the markets didn’t go my way. Big difference.
And the Bush tax rate were supposed to help all Americans, they didn’t. They was my point. The trickle down Reagan rubbish is theoretical nonsense.
August 28th, 2009 at 4:39 pm
Cohen
LOL Not much testing going on there, eh? Just a whole lotta storage.
August 28th, 2009 at 4:50 pm
@venn
I agree w/ you re: trickle down nonsense. It’s right in the name, rich people are pissing on you
August 28th, 2009 at 4:56 pm
Onlooker
Yeah, and from the other pics on that site, it wasn’t a nissan phenomenon.
But re: rebuilding of car inventories. It’s true dealers have low inventories, I read for Ford they wre looking at a supply of 30ish days vs. typical 70ish days of supply. Guess what ford, you don’t need the average amount of supply. Some replenishment, sure but I think they need to be careful about not bringing on too much capacity now that CFC is done.
Here’s an article from today where Ford sees Aug. US auto sales at an annualized rate of 13 million. If I was a car exec and Clunkers got US sales from ~10 mil to 13 mil, I’d blow my brains out.
August 28th, 2009 at 5:22 pm
venndata-
there are many here (including myself) who believe the economy has many structural issues to overcome- and that unemployment will remain at elevated levels- that consumers are unwilling and unable to spend- that the TBTF banks were rewarded for bad behavior – that no-one was held resposible for sending the economy over the cliff-
the current rally is speculation- again- the same thing over and over- balloon then bust- also- you appear to wrap all your arguments in politics-
but partisans always see things through a political prism- what was wrong before is wrong now no matter who is in power-
capiche
August 28th, 2009 at 6:17 pm
“also- you appear to wrap all your arguments in politics-”
Ain’t that the truth. And thus why I don’t bother. There’s another one who gets the same level of attention from me. Any guesses? :)
August 28th, 2009 at 8:54 pm
Off main topic, but I suggest anyone whose thinking is U.S.A. right or wrong, love it or leave it, is confusing Nationalism for Patriotism.
August 28th, 2009 at 8:56 pm
On main topic: Man, are we lucky to have the birth/death-model taxes to collect or we’d really be in the crapper.
August 28th, 2009 at 11:39 pm
@Cohen
But certainly Barack Obama must be smarter than Carlos Ghosn…. RIGHT?