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	<title>Comments on: Depression versus Recession?</title>
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	<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/09/depression-versus-recession/</link>
	<description>Macro Perspective on the Capital Markets, Economy, Geopolitics, Technology, and Digital Media</description>
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		<title>By: If you may mange to discontinue smoking for any measurement of instant. &#171; Darwin Kelly</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/09/depression-versus-recession/comment-page-4/#comment-218635</link>
		<dc:creator>If you may mange to discontinue smoking for any measurement of instant. &#171; Darwin Kelly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Sep 2009 16:57:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=37762#comment-218635</guid>
		<description>[...] will terminate just the once you total your concluding bunch or your end carton. Previous you can Depression Versus Recession smoking, you got to discover why you fumes in the foremost locality. There is further an herb rang [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] will terminate just the once you total your concluding bunch or your end carton. Previous you can Depression Versus Recession smoking, you got to discover why you fumes in the foremost locality. There is further an herb rang [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Is the Rally Ending, or Does it Have More to Go? &#124; The Big Picture</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/09/depression-versus-recession/comment-page-4/#comment-216745</link>
		<dc:creator>Is the Rally Ending, or Does it Have More to Go? &#124; The Big Picture</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Sep 2009 00:36:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=37762#comment-216745</guid>
		<description>[...] • Depression versus Recession? [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] • Depression versus Recession? [...]</p>
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		<title>By: josh H</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/09/depression-versus-recession/comment-page-4/#comment-215010</link>
		<dc:creator>josh H</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Sep 2009 10:56:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=37762#comment-215010</guid>
		<description>hey, 

I got a little helpful info for anybody who needs it ...

if anybody is owning a business that&#039;s suffering (who&#039;s isnt) and located in Dubai / London or Tehran  - here&#039;s a consultancy company that helped my business to cut costs and now it feels like the recession is over to me and my staff - the best thing is that I hired their services before I laid off staff -  and now I saved everybody&#039;s job ... which was in my top 3 priorities during this darned recession.
and the capital I sepent on their services has now paid itself off, so it&#039;s now turning into a great investment for me with absolutely no regrets.


check them out at their blog if your&#039;e interested:

http://dubairecession.blogspot.com/
 

and hopefully they can help you all out there  : )

Cheers.

Survivor!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hey, </p>
<p>I got a little helpful info for anybody who needs it &#8230;</p>
<p>if anybody is owning a business that&#8217;s suffering (who&#8217;s isnt) and located in Dubai / London or Tehran  &#8211; here&#8217;s a consultancy company that helped my business to cut costs and now it feels like the recession is over to me and my staff &#8211; the best thing is that I hired their services before I laid off staff &#8211;  and now I saved everybody&#8217;s job &#8230; which was in my top 3 priorities during this darned recession.<br />
and the capital I sepent on their services has now paid itself off, so it&#8217;s now turning into a great investment for me with absolutely no regrets.</p>
<p>check them out at their blog if your&#8217;e interested:</p>
<p><a href="http://dubairecession.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">http://dubairecession.blogspot.com/</a></p>
<p>and hopefully they can help you all out there  : )</p>
<p>Cheers.</p>
<p>Survivor!!</p>
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		<title>By: call me ahab</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/09/depression-versus-recession/comment-page-4/#comment-214253</link>
		<dc:creator>call me ahab</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Sep 2009 02:08:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=37762#comment-214253</guid>
		<description>escape-

GREAT POST-  quote-

&quot;Many businesses and consumers that are current on their loans right now ar doing it by draining ever dwindling savings accounts.&quot;

true-  i know folks who are draining their 401k&#039;s- for the last 18 months or so- it&#039;s called-

survival</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>escape-</p>
<p>GREAT POST-  quote-</p>
<p>&#8220;Many businesses and consumers that are current on their loans right now ar doing it by draining ever dwindling savings accounts.&#8221;</p>
<p>true-  i know folks who are draining their 401k&#8217;s- for the last 18 months or so- it&#8217;s called-</p>
<p>survival</p>
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		<title>By: jc</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/09/depression-versus-recession/comment-page-4/#comment-214189</link>
		<dc:creator>jc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Sep 2009 22:34:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=37762#comment-214189</guid>
		<description>Mish &quot;especially the Fed’s unprecedented response&quot;
Thats what convinces me this is a depression - although it will take time like wine &amp; cheese</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mish &#8220;especially the Fed’s unprecedented response&#8221;<br />
Thats what convinces me this is a depression &#8211; although it will take time like wine &amp; cheese</p>
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		<title>By: EscapetheDepression</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/09/depression-versus-recession/comment-page-4/#comment-214184</link>
		<dc:creator>EscapetheDepression</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Sep 2009 22:15:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=37762#comment-214184</guid>
		<description>The Great Depression started in the summer of 1929.  It took a few months for the stock market to throw in the towel.  This depression started two years ago in August of 2007.  At the end of 1930 U.S. unemployment reached a high of 8.7%.  It crossed 10% in the early spring of 1931, which was a little less than 2 years in.  While our unemployment rate is officially 9.7%, the labor department has lowered the number of participants in the workforce by 2 million people.  If they had kept the number of people in the workforce constant the unemployment rate would be 11%.

The CPI is officially down 2.1% over the last 12 months.  However, in January of 1983 home prices were replaced by owners equivalent rent to approximate the cost of acquiring and maintaining a home in the CPI.  If we were calculating inflation/deflation in the same way as they did in the 1930&#039;s our deflation rate over the last 12 months would be 6%.  In fact, owner equivalent rent rose 1.9% in the last 12 months while home prices fell at least 15%.  This error prone calculation also understated inflation earlier in this decade and caused the Fed to miss the true inflation rate caused by the housing bubble.

Finally, the economic improvement reported in GDP in Germany, France, Japan, and the U.S. (only down 1%) was mainly due to net exports (the trade gap).  Since the imports in these countries dropped more than the exports the gap added to GDP.  In the U.S. net exports made a positive 1.38% overall contribution to GDP despite actual exports falling 5%.  The formulas measuring unemployment, GDP, and the CPI need to be adjusted to more accurately reflect the real trends in the underlying economy.

But our calculations are not nearly as far off as China&#039;s.  In China electricity consumption is down and imports have dropped a whopping 15% from a year ago.  Yet China says its GDP is growing at 7.9%.  

The point of all of this is we are definitely in a global depression.  By my calculation we have at least two more years to go before the economy hits bottom.  Where will auto sales and home sales be in the fourth quarter without cash for clunkers or the first time home buyers tax credit?  The Treasury and the Fed have opted for Zombie banks rather than painful reform such as a  true &quot;bad abnk&quot; to absorb the assets.  The problems have been swept under the rug and not dealt with in a meaningful way.  Until real actions are taken by Washinton the dwonturn in the economy will continue.  There is simply too much debt and not enough real assets or income to support the debts.  Many businesses and consumers that are current on their loans right now ar doing it by draining ever dwindling savings accounts.  

http://www.escapethenewgreatdepression.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Great Depression started in the summer of 1929.  It took a few months for the stock market to throw in the towel.  This depression started two years ago in August of 2007.  At the end of 1930 U.S. unemployment reached a high of 8.7%.  It crossed 10% in the early spring of 1931, which was a little less than 2 years in.  While our unemployment rate is officially 9.7%, the labor department has lowered the number of participants in the workforce by 2 million people.  If they had kept the number of people in the workforce constant the unemployment rate would be 11%.</p>
<p>The CPI is officially down 2.1% over the last 12 months.  However, in January of 1983 home prices were replaced by owners equivalent rent to approximate the cost of acquiring and maintaining a home in the CPI.  If we were calculating inflation/deflation in the same way as they did in the 1930&#8217;s our deflation rate over the last 12 months would be 6%.  In fact, owner equivalent rent rose 1.9% in the last 12 months while home prices fell at least 15%.  This error prone calculation also understated inflation earlier in this decade and caused the Fed to miss the true inflation rate caused by the housing bubble.</p>
<p>Finally, the economic improvement reported in GDP in Germany, France, Japan, and the U.S. (only down 1%) was mainly due to net exports (the trade gap).  Since the imports in these countries dropped more than the exports the gap added to GDP.  In the U.S. net exports made a positive 1.38% overall contribution to GDP despite actual exports falling 5%.  The formulas measuring unemployment, GDP, and the CPI need to be adjusted to more accurately reflect the real trends in the underlying economy.</p>
<p>But our calculations are not nearly as far off as China&#8217;s.  In China electricity consumption is down and imports have dropped a whopping 15% from a year ago.  Yet China says its GDP is growing at 7.9%.  </p>
<p>The point of all of this is we are definitely in a global depression.  By my calculation we have at least two more years to go before the economy hits bottom.  Where will auto sales and home sales be in the fourth quarter without cash for clunkers or the first time home buyers tax credit?  The Treasury and the Fed have opted for Zombie banks rather than painful reform such as a  true &#8220;bad abnk&#8221; to absorb the assets.  The problems have been swept under the rug and not dealt with in a meaningful way.  Until real actions are taken by Washinton the dwonturn in the economy will continue.  There is simply too much debt and not enough real assets or income to support the debts.  Many businesses and consumers that are current on their loans right now ar doing it by draining ever dwindling savings accounts.  </p>
<p><a href="http://www.escapethenewgreatdepression.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.escapethenewgreatdepression.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: Mark E Hoffer</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/09/depression-versus-recession/comment-page-4/#comment-214166</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark E Hoffer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Sep 2009 21:26:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=37762#comment-214166</guid>
		<description>&quot;Most investors are looking for 8% annually, that’s 80K on a million dollar portfolio. You already need that for retirement so you need another 10-40K to add to your fund, plus your living expenses which are high when you have two kids...&quot;

danm, 

you should understand covered-call writing..

see: http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=MO as one, potential, vehicle
and: http://finance.yahoo.com/q/op?s=MO for the chain (note: this is Not fortuitous timing, for this ex.)

LSS: double-digit returns w/ Covered-Call Writing are Not OOQ..

ht tp://finance.yahoo.com/q/op?s=DRYS
one with, somewhat, better current attributes..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Most investors are looking for 8% annually, that’s 80K on a million dollar portfolio. You already need that for retirement so you need another 10-40K to add to your fund, plus your living expenses which are high when you have two kids&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>danm, </p>
<p>you should understand covered-call writing..</p>
<p>see: <a href="http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=MO" rel="nofollow">http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=MO</a> as one, potential, vehicle<br />
and: <a href="http://finance.yahoo.com/q/op?s=MO" rel="nofollow">http://finance.yahoo.com/q/op?s=MO</a> for the chain (note: this is Not fortuitous timing, for this ex.)</p>
<p>LSS: double-digit returns w/ Covered-Call Writing are Not OOQ..</p>
<p>ht tp://finance.yahoo.com/q/op?s=DRYS<br />
one with, somewhat, better current attributes..</p>
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		<title>By: DeDude</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/09/depression-versus-recession/comment-page-4/#comment-214125</link>
		<dc:creator>DeDude</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Sep 2009 20:22:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=37762#comment-214125</guid>
		<description>How about the “little great depression” or “the great little depression” or “the little depression that couldn’t” or “the great depression that wouldn’t or “the optimistic great depression” or “the pessimistic great ressesion”…….</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How about the “little great depression” or “the great little depression” or “the little depression that couldn’t” or “the great depression that wouldn’t or “the optimistic great depression” or “the pessimistic great ressesion”…….</p>
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		<title>By: franklin420d</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/09/depression-versus-recession/comment-page-4/#comment-214083</link>
		<dc:creator>franklin420d</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Sep 2009 19:06:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=37762#comment-214083</guid>
		<description>Onlooker, very much agree with you and ahab about the longer this is drawn out the worst the concequences will be. 

I kind of liken it to children that reach the age of seperating from their parents. Some parents don&#039;t want it to happen nor do some children don&#039;t, but it is a necissary evil. 

As long as the (Adult) child stays under the parents roff the more difficult it will be for the children to grow into the adults they need to be and the parents can not reach the level of comfort they should have.

But here we have uncle stupid supporting A LOT of children who just refuse to grow up, but the older they get the harder it will be when the parents are finally put into a nursing home or die.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Onlooker, very much agree with you and ahab about the longer this is drawn out the worst the concequences will be. </p>
<p>I kind of liken it to children that reach the age of seperating from their parents. Some parents don&#8217;t want it to happen nor do some children don&#8217;t, but it is a necissary evil. </p>
<p>As long as the (Adult) child stays under the parents roff the more difficult it will be for the children to grow into the adults they need to be and the parents can not reach the level of comfort they should have.</p>
<p>But here we have uncle stupid supporting A LOT of children who just refuse to grow up, but the older they get the harder it will be when the parents are finally put into a nursing home or die.</p>
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		<title>By: hue</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/09/depression-versus-recession/comment-page-4/#comment-214082</link>
		<dc:creator>hue</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Sep 2009 19:00:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=37762#comment-214082</guid>
		<description>all we can do is look back at the past to try to figure out the future.  for now, 1930 will do.  

that said, one major thing that is different now is life expectancy. i think this is also left out of the health care debate too. when SS was created,  it was only suppose to help you a few years.  it&#039;s not design to sustain you to your 90s.  so now, we are all healthier and living longer, but the wealth and economy are lagging to support our longer lives.  

i&#039;m still amazed that people think it&#039;s over. look at any instrument after a bubble, tulips,  rail roads etc.  it may pop back for a short time like the market is doing now, but the direction is down for a long, long time.   

it&#039;s like people expect Cisco to roar back to the 70 level in 2002. tech is a market leader now nearly a decade later and the wintel complex is just trading in the low 20s. doesn&#039;t the nasdaq have to go back to 5000 first because housing will recover to 2006 levels? the same with oil, no matter what the fundies are.  i&#039;m sticking to my bearish view no matter what ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>all we can do is look back at the past to try to figure out the future.  for now, 1930 will do.  </p>
<p>that said, one major thing that is different now is life expectancy. i think this is also left out of the health care debate too. when SS was created,  it was only suppose to help you a few years.  it&#8217;s not design to sustain you to your 90s.  so now, we are all healthier and living longer, but the wealth and economy are lagging to support our longer lives.  </p>
<p>i&#8217;m still amazed that people think it&#8217;s over. look at any instrument after a bubble, tulips,  rail roads etc.  it may pop back for a short time like the market is doing now, but the direction is down for a long, long time.   </p>
<p>it&#8217;s like people expect Cisco to roar back to the 70 level in 2002. tech is a market leader now nearly a decade later and the wintel complex is just trading in the low 20s. doesn&#8217;t the nasdaq have to go back to 5000 first because housing will recover to 2006 levels? the same with oil, no matter what the fundies are.  i&#8217;m sticking to my bearish view no matter what <img src='http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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