End of Recession Blues
By Barry Ritholtz - October 2nd, 2009, 5:00PM
Too apropos to today’s NFP:
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Please use the comments to demonstrate your own ignorance, unfamiliarity with empirical data, ability to repeat discredited memes, and lack of respect for scientific knowledge. Also, be sure to create straw men and argue against things I have neither said nor even implied. Any irrelevancies you can mention will also be appreciated. Lastly, kindly forgo all civility in your discourse . . . you are, after all, anonymous.
October 2nd, 2009 at 5:02 pm
This year’s Ig Nobel Prize for Economics goes to…
The directors, executives, and auditors of four Icelandic banks — Kaupthing Bank, Landsbanki, Glitnir Bank, and Central Bank of Iceland — for demonstrating that tiny banks can be rapidly transformed into huge banks, and vice versa — and for demonstrating that similar things can be done to an entire national economy.
http://www.boston.com/news/health/blog/2009/10/ig_nobels_hold.html
October 2nd, 2009 at 5:27 pm
Ben adds that it might not feel like the recession is over to you but me and my buddies at Goldman Sachs are doing just fine thank you very much….
October 2nd, 2009 at 5:31 pm
Ha! Your friend Chris Whalen is on Fast Money calling for GD-II. It always strikes me as ludicrous for these hyper-bears to call for a complete global economic meltdown leading to starvation, death + destruction, and the return of Godzilla, and then in the next breath, to talk about what they’re doing in the market. Shouldn’t they be out stockpiling cans of Spam and cases of Twinkies? Shouldn’t they be building a lead house where they can ride out the nuclear holocaust? Shouldn’t they be stocking up on God, guns and gold?
October 2nd, 2009 at 5:34 pm
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601101&sid=aJ5F1yFPPN0w
G-7 May Break With Currency Tradition as Status Fades
“One week after the Group of 20 anointed itself the world economy’s main policy forum, G-7 finance ministers and central bankers may break with tradition and choose not to release a statement on the global economy and currencies, said officials who declined to be identified. That would deprive traders of the commentary that policy makers frequently use to influence exchange rates.”
…..Hmmmm……all sorts of questions come to mind…..
Lefty, I think I’m going to be right about the dollar as the world’s currency….we’ll see (if we are able to afford the internet in 24 months…)
BinT
October 2nd, 2009 at 5:38 pm
“Ha! Your friend Chris Whalen is on Fast Money calling for GD-II . . .Shouldn’t they be out stockpiling cans of Spam and cases of Twinkies? Shouldn’t they be building a lead house where they can ride out the nuclear holocaust? Shouldn’t they be stocking up on God, guns and gold?”
it’s a depression- not Armageddon-
don’t be so melodramatic- also-
go obama
October 2nd, 2009 at 5:53 pm
F411 – can you please, pretty please, just for me, find another song to sing?
Thanks a heap!
October 2nd, 2009 at 6:04 pm
franklin411 Says –
FYI –
1) You can’t stock up on God, he is either with you or not with you.
2) We have the guns but it is becoming difficult to obtain additional ammunition. As you are probably unaware, ammunition has been in short supply since December, 2008.
3) After we get through this deflation faze we will be obtaining gold aggressively (prices are a bit to steep right now). The next spiral downward will take another 5 trillion dollars out of circulation (knocking commodities down as well), then the purchase of gold will be less expensive.
Otherwise, stop being a panzy, go to Chicago and enjoy the olympics…..oh my….I forgot….the trip to Copenhagen was for naught…..I guess you’ll have to fly to Rio.
Oh my…….
October 2nd, 2009 at 6:07 pm
“Ha! Your friend Chris Whalen is on Fast Money calling for GD-II. It always strikes me as ludicrous for these hyper-bears to call for a complete global economic meltdown leading to starvation, death + destruction, and then in the next breath, to talk about what they’re doing in the market. ”
I agree. The polarisation of opinion points to a lack of imagination on both perma-sides seeing as the likely outcome is almost certainly smack bang in the middle, at least for the forseeable.
That’s not to say the perma bulls are any less idiotic than the collapse poets. However I agree with F411 that talking armageddon on the internet is non plausible, when if one believes ones own bullshit, the time would be better spent at self defence classes or learning how to fillet your neighbours.
I blame Marc Faber and others like him. His crazed ranting is a clear expression of cognitive dissonance that events are diverging from his predictions so he’s moved them all out 5 or 10 years and predicted a nuclear holocaust. How do you go from financial pundit to that?
October 2nd, 2009 at 6:11 pm
I actually agree somewhat with f411 and scepticus, but the term “armageddon” is such a subjective term and one used for hyperbole and effect (probably overused, I admit). I would argue that for the millions of folks who have no job, no job prospects, no health insurance or access to care, and are being foreclosed on their homes, their personal “armageddon” is pretty near and dear, no?
October 2nd, 2009 at 6:12 pm
@Thor – I like this sound and you can sing it too.
I hope you like it.
Sunny Day
Sweepin’ the clouds away
On my way to where the air is sweet
Can you tell me how to get,
How to get to Sesame Street
Come and play
Everything’s A-OK
Friendly neighbors there
That’s where we meet
Can you tell me how to get
How to get to Sesame Street
It’s a magic carpet ride
Every door will open wide
To Happy people like you–
Happy people like
What a beautiful
Sunny Day
Sweepin’ the clouds away
On my way to where the air is sweet
Can you tell me how to get,
How to get to Sesame street…
How to get to Sesame Street
How to get to…
October 2nd, 2009 at 6:14 pm
420d-
shroomin’?
October 2nd, 2009 at 6:15 pm
I called for the equity rally to end when gold held above 1000. I guess a reduced risk appetite indicator. I though it would occur much earlier than this. For gold to stay above 1000 within an equities sell off requires it to rally alongside the dollar. That is a combined gold-dollar flight to safety. Impossible? Who Knows.
October 2nd, 2009 at 6:16 pm
@ahab, re: “go obama” -
Sure was nice to see that the world does not give a CRAP about B & M’s personal life stories and how they triumphed against all odds to fulfill the American Dream. Unfortunately for me, I was WAY too sick of Chicago before they even won the election, then immediately tried to sell his Senate seat to the highest bidder, and I ain’t lookin’ forward to 7 more years of taking care of the boys back home by the Oval Office.
Also, I picture the President as the guy in the above pic, just after getting hit by the truck that delivered the IOC’s decision to him on Air Force One.
October 2nd, 2009 at 6:24 pm
worth-
as i posted a couple threads ago-
ahab Says-
“Thousands of people are standing in stunned silence in downtown Chicago after watching the International Olympic Committee choose someone else for the 2016 Summer Olympics”
does anyone even give a shit about this-
fucking ridiculous
October 2nd, 2009 at 6:30 pm
“However I agree with F411 that talking armageddon on the internet is non plausible”
Who on this blog is talking Armageddon?
October 2nd, 2009 at 6:33 pm
thor-
no-one-
it is only a recurring nightmare for f411- as he huddles under his classroom desk hiding from the bad men looking for spam and maybe a little company
October 2nd, 2009 at 6:35 pm
@ahab 6:14 LOL
now don’t be a gruch.
I know a lot of folks who are extremely loyal
To a banjo or a nice guitar
But I prefer a greasy can of olive oil
With a broken broom handle by far
Some people think the sound of a trombone’s devine
But I think wet paper and a comb are fine
So blow the soda bottle, let the soup cans crash
‘Cause one guy’s treasure is another guy’s trash
In Oscar’s junk band, Oscar’s junk band
Stamp your muddy feet and clap your dirty hands
We’re gonna play the junkiest tune you can stand
Come on and hear Oscar’s junk band
Some music fans appreciate the pedal steel
Or a clarinet or violin
But me I love the sound of dried up orange peel
When you shake it in a sardine tin
You keep your tuba give me paper tubes to play
Don’t want a glockenspiel I want an ice-cube tray
We’d like it rusty, dusty, busted, bent or old
‘Cause one gal’s garbage is another gal’s gold
In Oscar’s junk band, Oscar’s junk band
Stamp your muddy feet and clap your dirty hands
We’re gonna play the junkiest tune you can stand
Come on and hear Oscar’s junk band
We’re Oscar’s junk band, Oscar’s junk band
Stamp your muddy feet and clap your dirty hands
We’re gonna play the junkiest tune you can stand
Come on and hear Oscar’s junk band
Come on and hear Oscar’s junk band, oh yeah!
Come on and hear Oscar’s junk band
October 2nd, 2009 at 6:35 pm
“I would argue that for the millions of folks who have no job, no job prospects, no health insurance or access to care, and are being foreclosed on their homes, their personal “armageddon” is pretty near and dear, no?”
Yes, but I think those banging on about the collapse while simultaneously worrying about charts and each and every market fart are perhaps betraying, more than anything else, their fears of joining the great unwashed, powerless to do much about despite whatever insights they perceive themselves to have.
It’s hard to come to terms with the fact that merely possessing knowledge above sheeple-clearance does not confer the status we feel it ought to. In fact it means jack shit, and in a true armageddon scenario it means even less.
Armageddon is not approaching, because there is no possibility of a long term, or perhaps even short term lack of liquidity developing, and anyone who thinks there is is not thinking straight. That was what nixon meant when he said that we’re all keynsians now. That liquidity will stabilise things as it washes out over the US, eurozone and asia.
Gibbering about debt levels and major soverign default is completely unjustified and so is worrying about 10 years with 25% unemployment. The reviled dollar, and even sterling still represent a vast cushion of stored global wealth that can be almost endlessly debased without converting us all into cavemen. Who knows, perhaps some silver linings will emerge as the currency value evaporates, and we rediscover some of what we lost when it was converted into asset-liability entries on some banksters computer.
October 2nd, 2009 at 6:51 pm
OT: When was Bro debased to Brah? I
October 2nd, 2009 at 6:56 pm
Tranzor – I don’t know, but it drives me crazy. That and women who say “Dude” a lot. ;-)
October 2nd, 2009 at 6:57 pm
We will find out if you’re right soon enough, won’t we scepticus? Plenty of posters who no longer post here also made similar dismissals of others who got it right here at TBP.
Beware the law of uintended consequences. We can debauch the dollar forever and get away with it. If we can, then why not just give everyone free greenbacks ad infinitum and call it a day?
October 2nd, 2009 at 6:57 pm
That’s we “CAN’T” debauch…….the dollar……that is.
October 2nd, 2009 at 7:06 pm
Government FOR the people. So, why is the money-drop helicopter hovering over Wall Street instead of giving equal time over the rest of the country?
October 2nd, 2009 at 7:16 pm
Mish — whom I love but don’t always agree with — goes on and on about “overcapacity”. There are homeless people and plenty of empty homes. There are billions of people barely able to feed themselves or find clean water to drink, while the technology (but not the “money”) exists to bring it to them.
So, I argue, we don’t have “overcapacity”. Somehow, we are enforcing scarcity amidst plenty.
Why?
Well, one reason: by not letting prices drop and markets clear, bankers and regulators are letting homes rot in Florida instead of house people.
What these people are saying is: “I will relinquish rights in these properties — and would rather see them rendered useless — unless you make it really worth my while (which, by the looks of your bank account, you are not able to do).”
Looks like a “command” economy, with HQ on Wall Street and the conference rooms in DC.
[Profanity removed prior to posting.]
October 2nd, 2009 at 7:17 pm
Sheesh, I’m off my meds. Need to take a break. Please excuse the hit-and-run.
October 2nd, 2009 at 7:22 pm
Like ahab said, stop being over dramatic already. Too many people equate a depression with “Armageddon.” It’s their own lack of understanding of this that leads to conclusions that everybody who says we’re in for harder times and/or a depression is some kind of nut job living in a bomb shelter.
And of course the only thing keeping us from a very tough depression, for the last couple of decades probably, has been the easy money policy. And yes it has made some people look foolish for predicting larger downturns than played out because they underestimated the power of the printing press and/or the willingness of the powers that be to use it. And so they’re chided for being wrong, as the masses go back to their foolish and shortsighted ways.
But that’s losing it’s effectiveness with each swing, and eventually it won’t work. And each time we avoid the hard decisions and sacrifices needed to get back on solid ground we make the eventual pain much worse. Those who think we can do this ad infinitum without ever paying the piper are delusional and most likely cowardly.
October 2nd, 2009 at 7:27 pm
Mannwich, sterling lost 30% in the space of a little more than a few months and I barely even noticed except for the fact I was pleased I had a good portion of gold in savings and pension.
Admittedly we didn’t go on holiday this summer, and I haven’t made any major consumer goods purchases, but life hasn’t changed much as a result of that devaluation, and that applies to me and the rest of us brits. Yeah, we have a lot more unemployed now but we’d have a damn sight more if sterling had stayed at $2.
We’ll keep printing, our currencies will fall dramatically but not disasterously until eventually we get our jobs back (even if they be government jobs – gasp) in reasonable measure as long as them at the helm don’t blink. I don’t give a shit what happens to the stock market. That’s what soft currencies are for and what global re-balancing requires, as the asians know, who’ve been doing this for decades.
What else can we possibly do?
October 2nd, 2009 at 7:29 pm
wunscon Says-
“we don’t have “overcapacity”. Somehow, we are enforcing scarcity amidst plenty . . .Why? . . .Well, one reason: by not letting prices drop and markets clear”
truer words were never spoken-
by letting prices drop- you don’t need subsidized mortgage rates and tax credits- do you want $8,000 from Uncle Sam- or do you want a $20,000 lower price-
the government is now in the job of supporting asset prices across all spectrums and won’t stop unless there is a monetary crisis that gets in the way
October 2nd, 2009 at 7:49 pm
@worth
Chicago is not Obama, Chicago is not the Olympics (thank God for Rio), Chicago, like most other cities in the USA and the world is corrupt, Blago wasn’t the first governor who left office in disgrace, at least his alleged corruption is garden variety and not sexual in nature, and it is quite entertaining.
Piss all over Chicago, fine, but that says more about you than it says about Chicago.
Truthfully, I am sick to death of 30 years of conservatism and what is has brought and I still do not understand why Bush, Cheney and the rest of the criminals are not in the Hague being tried for crimes against humanity. It took the conservatives 30 years to collapse the economy and impoverish the middle class, but I guess they can all laugh as they got away with it. Now we have to live with the consequences.
Go Obama.
October 2nd, 2009 at 7:52 pm
@f411
“Shouldn’t they be out stockpiling cans of Spam and cases of Twinkies? Shouldn’t they be building a lead house where they can ride out the nuclear holocaust? Shouldn’t they be stocking up on God, guns and gold?”
Personally, I’ve already stocked up on all the Twinkies & Spam, guns & gold that I need… Of course, God is always around, so he, like you, is laughing at me all the way…
Basically, nothing left for me to do right now but trade the market…
October 2nd, 2009 at 7:56 pm
DSS:
They had plenty of help from some sections of the Democratic party(Sadly!).
October 2nd, 2009 at 7:59 pm
To keep with the lyrical theme:
“Time Has Come Today” – The Chambers Brothers
Time has come today
Young hearts can go their way
Can’t put it off another day
I don’t care what others say
They say we don’t listen anyway
Time has come today
Oh – the rules have changed today
I have no place to stay
I’m thinking about the subway
My love has flown away
My tears have come and gone
Oh my Lord, I have to roam
I have no home
I have no home
Now the time has come
There’s no place to run
I might get burned up by the sun
But I had my fun
I had, my fun
I’ve been loved and put aside
I’ve been crushed by the tumbling tide
And my soul has been psychedelicized
Now the time has come
There are things to realize
Time has come today
Time has come today
Oh – Now the time has come
There’s no place to run
I might get burned up by the sun
But I had my fun
I’ve been loved and put aside
I’ve been crushed by tumbling tide
And my soul has been psychedelicized
Now the time has come
There are things to realize
Time has come today
Time has come today
_________________
A link to the Ramones version:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wanoXM90yHE
October 2nd, 2009 at 8:04 pm
dss-
what think ye of Obama going to Copenhagen to pitch Chicago for the Olympics-
why? outside of political debt owed?
a joke and an embarrassment- like we don’t have more things to worry about-
who does he think he is that he thinks he’s going to change the mind of the IOC on a sporting venue-
sheeeeeesh
October 2nd, 2009 at 8:04 pm
@wunsacon @ 7:16,
Bingo!
I’m with you about Mish – I admire his ability to dissect information and define a problem but find his solutions too simpleminded and ideologically-based.
(I’m not eccentric. I’m colorful. Live down here long enough and that’s what happens to you – you get colorful. [spits tobacco] Bingo!”
October 2nd, 2009 at 8:07 pm
Winston – It’s “That’s a BINGO!”
Please see below.
http://19.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_kovbsnE9iW1qz51dto1_500.jpg
October 2nd, 2009 at 8:15 pm
Dam, BR…whatever happened to that 650 s&p, or did I miss something? Or is it YOU and all of Wall-Assholes have no, not anyone to answer too? We are going to fuck along for over 10 years how and no one is telling anyone how someone got pissed all over their backs??? Where is the justice? Where is the truth?
October 2nd, 2009 at 8:16 pm
@The Commish – Started reading Manias, Panics and Crashes – Stupid title, but great book so far, needs more picures though.
October 2nd, 2009 at 8:20 pm
@ahab – Well Obama is the president of change, has a president ever gone and lobbied for he Olympics before, well now that has changed.
October 2nd, 2009 at 8:23 pm
@ Thor,
I screwed up trying to quote “Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid” from memory.
Percy Garris: “I’m not crazy. I’m colorful. That’s what happens when you live 10 years alone in Bolivia: you get colorful.”
October 2nd, 2009 at 8:26 pm
@JustinTheSkeptic 8:15 – A wall made out of assholes, people getting their backs pissed on, fucking for over 10 years answering to no one, wondering what happened to s&p 650 not knowing where the justice and truth went. And you missed something.
I think I understood your above post Juuuusssssttttt fine.
October 2nd, 2009 at 8:30 pm
420d-
a step down in stature- we are “dancing with the stars” culture-
fucking embarrassing
Winston-
love that line
October 2nd, 2009 at 8:32 pm
“A wall made out of assholes, people getting their backs pissed on,” – Hah, someone’s off his meds.
Winston – I just realized that if you haven’t seen Inglorious Basterds yet my post made no sense :-)
Sorry for that!
October 2nd, 2009 at 8:37 pm
Justin is just raging out loud while the rest of us keep it a bit down low-
i know where he’s coming from
October 2nd, 2009 at 8:45 pm
Yeah, I can see Ben describing it as “an accident”. That’s the shame.
October 2nd, 2009 at 8:47 pm
@ahad – Agree with you, but if I am going to get fornicated with for 10 years I might at least have a smile on my face :)
October 2nd, 2009 at 8:55 pm
well- 420d- that would depend my friend- on who’s doing the fornicating- :D
October 2nd, 2009 at 8:57 pm
pat g @8:45
don’t follow- elaborate
October 2nd, 2009 at 9:21 pm
Nassim Taleb on BB….Ben Bernanke saved nothing! He shouldn’t be allowed in Washington. He’s like a doctor who misses the metastatic tumour and says the patient is doing very well.
October 2nd, 2009 at 9:22 pm
Somewhere deep inside the Blackcave sit Blackman and Biden, watching T.V.
Biden: Holy Olympics, Blackman, the IOC is about to make its choice.
Blackman: Quick, Biden, the Blackphone.
Blackman speed dials the number. After 8 rings, the phone is finally answered. But whoever answers drops the receiver. There is the sound of bumping and scratching. Then finally a voice.
Off Camera Slurred Voice That Sounds Totally Stoned And Oddly Like Tommy Chong: Hello?
Blackman: I need to talk to the IOC president. This is Blackman.
OCSVTSTSAOLTC: Blackman?
Blackman: Yes. Blackman.
OCSVTSTSAOLTC: Blackman’s not here.
October 2nd, 2009 at 9:24 pm
@ ahab
Because he’s not that stupid to not know how it happened and since he wants to keep those same policies in effect now by feigning the recession as an accident. The shame is that the average American believes that but we here on TBP know it was no accident and that the accident is far from over.
October 2nd, 2009 at 9:28 pm
For Brazil, Olympics mean the future finally has arrived
http://news.yahoo.com/s/mcclatchy/3325148
Obama got punked for his stupid lobbying in light of all the pressing problems the USA has.
His nemesis will be bending over for Wall St crooks to tune of $12Trillion…at taxpayer expense !
I voted for the guy ( because the alternative would have been much worse ) bit I am sorely disappointed with his reliance on cheap talk of ‘hope and change’ without tactical execution.
I the real business world this guy would get run over….
October 2nd, 2009 at 9:41 pm
Barry, is it possible that someone (either your peoples) or another researcher can see if there is such a thing as an “Olympics effect”? In other words, this past Beijing Olympics saw unprecedented amounts of spending leading up to the 2008 games and most certainly contributed an amount to China’s stock market going bonkers since 2000 or so when their bid was announced. To some effect, Canada is benefiting as well from having 2010 games in Vancouver. Do you know of any research that says “hey, buy up brazil companies between now and 2016 and capture some of the growth”?
October 2nd, 2009 at 9:55 pm
There is indeed a recovery going on, it just depends on who you are and where you work…if you work at all, that is.
Welcome to the brave new economy!
October 2nd, 2009 at 10:20 pm
i think ‘ol BR has me on a short leash tonight- so lets see if this posts-
probably not
October 2nd, 2009 at 10:29 pm
Franklin: This is a Depression in many places. There’s no doubting it. Depressions aren’t such a bad thing…Shit, even in the G.D. 80% of the people had jobs of some sort….
The pictures of the G.D. we have in our minds are of famine and hoovervilles because people were actually starving as a result of a real lack of food and real shelter. The situation is different today…the cost of food relative to household budgets is smaller and there is obviously plenty of housing available.
The cold hard reality is that it many respects the economy no longer needs a lot of the workers, as it becomes more efficient. I’ve come to the conclusion that socialism, or socialistic tendencies, is a natural result of technological innovation/effieciency…the people who are more valued will make more profits and will be forced to “share the wealth” with the people who are not really needed….
The GDII will be people losing cell phones, cable, and shopping at thrift stores for their clothes…maybe replacing the cars with some bikes….no biggie.
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:39 pm
in this picture there is hope. All is light. Cannot offend remmember only Mr Mahmoud Ahmadi Nejad can do that following the thinker around.
See even a cartoon think there is hope , after a truck run him over we all think it is ok. It is NOT. be heavy he is dead as the idea of US. “C’est fini” stop the BS and RE INVENT AMERICA because i an mot sure I want a China model to follow.
October 3rd, 2009 at 12:00 am
What is this? Do shrooms and post on TBP night?
October 3rd, 2009 at 12:32 am
LOL Thor! There have been some “interesting” (and unintelligible) comments here, eh?
October 3rd, 2009 at 1:19 am
franklin420d:
Who cares? The other world leaders went and lobbied. So why not Obama?
October 3rd, 2009 at 1:30 am
lol…Thats so true.
I dont know if anyone is keeping tabs on FDIC problem. It is massive problem. FDIC says 400 banks to go bust. We did a quicl check on these claims thru third party rating agencies and the number astounds us.,
1800 banks to go bust with tax payer cost of 1trillion.
1800 banks to go bust
Please do register at Register to read the articles.
fresbee
investingcontrarian.com
October 3rd, 2009 at 8:00 am
I want the Anti-Banker party to vote for next time. Right now there’s only the Banker Party and the Other Banker Party.
October 3rd, 2009 at 8:20 am
Now this is smart concrete tactical execution rather than cheap talk about ‘hope and change’
WASHINGTON – President Barack Obama says passage of his health care proposals would create new jobs by making small business startups more affordable.
In his weekly radio and Internet video address Saturday, the president linked one of his biggest challenges — a worse-than-expected loss of jobs — with a top priority: passage of far-reaching changes to the nation’s health care system.
If aspiring entrepreneurs believe they can stay insured while switching jobs, Obama said, they will start new businesses and hire workers.
He said he has met people “who’ve got a good idea and the expertise and determination to build it into a thriving business. But many can’t take that leap because they can’t afford to lose the health insurance they have at their current job.”
Small businesses create many of the nation’s jobs, the president said, and some have the potential to become big companies.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091003/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_obama
October 3rd, 2009 at 9:12 am
km4-
good post-
as i have said before- the biggest upside to universal care w/ a one payer system- is that it opens up choices for people to try other things they have a talent for- instead of staying at the same job just to keep their health coverage
October 3rd, 2009 at 10:48 am
Armageddon is not approaching, because there is no possibility of a long term, or perhaps even short term lack of liquidity developing, and anyone who thinks there is is not thinking straight.
———-
I mostly agree with what you said but in the back of my mind I can’t help but think of the French Revolution.
It was awash in liquidity but at one point the liquidity was such that it flooded the system and all hell broke loose.
October 3rd, 2009 at 11:10 am
@km4/ahab
“Small businesses create many of the nation’s jobs, the president said, and some have the potential to become big companies.”
—
Look, I’m not trying to criticize HOPE, but let me add this… (cvienne’s version)…
“Small businesses cost money to start and involve risk , cvienne said said. Some have the potential to become big companies, while others have the potential to go bankrupt. Almost ALL require startup capital in the form of “loans from banks” to begin operation… However, the banks are hoarding the capital right now that BB is printing for fear of balance sheet issues… Instead, what they’re doing with the money is TRADING with it to help put a floor under asset and commodity prices… This is why the DEBT problem in America never gets solved and gets kicked down the road… So many of the POTENTIAL entrepeneur types out there, with good ideas, are STYMIED right now and the process therefore goes nowhere because the RISK outweighs the potential REWARD”
So therefore, while trying to tie healthcare to small business in a nice soundbyte… It is basically a TURKEY…
A turkey is a bird right? It has wings right? Then why doesn’t it fly?
IOW – So long as the President continues to let Larry Summers convince him to align himself with banking interests, American “innovation” will remain stifled…
October 3rd, 2009 at 1:09 pm
@cvienne
> Small businesses create many of the nation’s jobs, the president said….( w/o the add on OK because I agree with you that 99%+ will not become big companies )
> therefore, while trying to tie healthcare to small business in a nice soundbyte
nope you’re way off base….it’s a smart way ( assuming Obama follow through ) to keep mostly the independents and Dems who work in small business on board. The clueless GOP people need to read Thoma Frank’s ‘What’s The Matter With Kansas’ to perhaps understand that voting against their own best interests and on passing legislation that lowers taxes for the rich and puts more money in corporate pockets is amazingly stupid.
Read this for more perspective including comments
Obama: Insurance costs are killing small business, innovation
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/10/3/789144/-Obama:-Insurance-costs-are-killing-small-business,-innovation
October 3rd, 2009 at 4:08 pm
Unfortunately, I retain the ultimate notion that the US Government is a TURKEY… Does anyone know that out national bird (instead of the bald Eagle), was going to be a TURKEY?
It would have been appropriate…
A bird with both a right and a left wing… Neither of which is capable of producing flight…
October 3rd, 2009 at 4:57 pm
“Remember the old adage ‘what’s good for GM is good for America’? That’s no longer the case. Success with money is intimately connected with inflation – people have got rich not through productive, wealth-creating activity, but because they bought a house or stocks at a time when general asset prices were rising. But what’s good for Warren Buffett is not necessarily good for the rest of us. Turroni wrote about the new business leaders who “became rich not with the general rise in prosperity but with the increase in the poverty of the people”. In a similar vein, the US may have become a plutocracy over the last eight years. And you have Buffett financially backing the Democrats. Could it be that the uber-rich are attempting to build moats around their castles in order to secure their fortune?”
- “Why are billionaires voting for Obama and backing Brown?” By Hugh Hendry Nov 28, 2008
http://www.moneyweek.com/news-and-charts/why-are-billionaires-voting-for-obama-and-backing-brown-14178.aspx
October 3rd, 2009 at 8:36 pm
@call me ahab,
Here is my take on it. First of all I was not for the Olympics coming to Chicago. Obama going there, like the other heads of state from Brazil, Spain and Japan was a traditional move, as past heads of state like Tony Blair, and Chirac and others have done so as well. To make a stink about Obama going to the Olympics to represent America is just politics to try and embarrass Obama, it is juvenile and pathetic that Obama had to be singled out when he was just doing what heads of state do.
Obama can’t win either way, if he had not gone he would have been criticized for hating America, how dare he not try to lobby for America when all of the other heads of state found the time during this world wide economic crisis to do so. How dare he not try to bring the games here as it would bolster the economy and bring lots of foreign money and tourism. Glen Beck and the other right wing morons would have material for the next 17 years about how Obama hates America, what a traitor he is, this is more proof he is not an American, is that a Kenyan flag I see in his back pocket, let’s draw Hitler moustaches on his photos, he is a socialist, a communist, and needs to be removed from office for this terrible transgression by military coup or assassination.
This demonizing of presidents has to stop, it cheapens our democracy. He was doing what he was supposed to do, which was represent America.
October 4th, 2009 at 9:33 am
dss,
btw, feel free to have your own opinion, though, are you saying that 44 should govern/act in such a way as to limit ‘criticism’ from the likes of Glenn Beck, et al. ?
past that, see: http://clusty.com/search?input-form=clusty-simple&v%3Asources=webplus&query=Obama+just+like+Bush 2, 3, & 8 for starters..
and, this type of thing: “The attack from Obama’s left flank began in earnest yesterday, as two reliably liberal forces openly compared Barack Obama’s plan for escalating the war in Afghanistan to Bush’s fiasco in Iraq.
Obama fangirl Rachel Maddow put together an Obama-Bush mashup on last night’s show, playing Obama’s speech announcing his Afghanistan plan next to clips of Bush talking about Iraq, and pointing out the eerie similarities. She hesitantly defended Obama—or at least seemed like she was trying to give him the benefit of the doubt—but it was clearly a shot across the bow…”
http://gawker.com/5187911/rachel-maddow-and-michael-moore-say-barack-obama-is-just-like-george-bush
finally, seeping into the synapses of some (D)s..