Hiring Continues to Lag
By now, everyone knows that employment is a lagging indicator. This cycle, however, the extent and duration looks to be deeper and longer than usual:
“Companies across the economy are holding off on hiring even as the profit outlook improves, amid economic uncertainty and their own success at raising productivity in rough waters.
Hiring always lags behind in economic recoveries, but the outlook this time is worse, many economists say. Most forecasters now expect a prolonged period of high unemployment, even though the government is expected to report next week that the economy grew in the third quarter, after four quarters of contraction. That is sure to frustrate the jobless and could be a problem for the Obama administration.
There are several major factors behind the trend, which is coming on top of sharper-than-expected job cuts in the recession. Many businesses have nagging doubts about the durability of the upturn, attributing much of the recent growth in orders to a move by their customers to rebuild inventories and to government stimulus spending, rather than underlying strength in their markets.
Businesses also face uncertainty about the potential costs of regulatory moves — such as an expansion of health care and climate legislation — that could drive up costs. And many employers have learned how to produce more with a smaller number of people than they previously thought possible.”
A “V” recovery looks increasingly far-fetched . . .
>
Chart courtesy of WSJ
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Previously:
NFP: Understanding the Lag (April 3rd, 2009)
http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/04/nfp-understanding-the-lag/
Source:
Employers Hold Off on Hiring
TIMOTHY AEPPEL and CONOR DOUGHERTY
WSJ, OCTOBER 20, 2009
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125599093581195087.html
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October 19th, 2009 at 9:48 pm
“By now, everyone knows that employment is a lagging indicator”
Everything I’ve read regarding unemployment during a balance sheet led recession is that unemployment is not a lagging indicator but a leading indicator.
““Companies across the economy are holding off on hiring even as the profit outlook improves”
Profit outlooks are increasing due to labor cutbacks the lack of hiring. Why did I waste 5 minutes of my life reading and commenting to this post?
~~~
BR: I was being Snarky; I’ve written that components of NFP is a leading indicator — namely, hours worked, wages, and temp help
October 19th, 2009 at 9:49 pm
Barry,
This just up on ZH. As soon as I saw this I thought “this is the kind of shit that Ritholtz likes”.
A comparison of 10 economic data points accompanying our current 60% rally vs average in all such others.
Data courtesy of Contrary Investor.
•Year over Year Retail Sales: 9.3% average in prior 60% rallies versus -5.3% in the current one
•Consumer Confidence: 95.5 average; 53.1 now
•Capacity Utilization: 79.9% average; 66.6% now
•Year over Year Industrial Production: 4.1% avereage; -10.7% now
•ISM: 53.9 average; 52.6 now
•Payroll employment gains over period: 2.2% average; -2.0% now
•Decline in continued unemployment claims from cycle peak: -26.3 average; -11.6% now
•Year over Year growth in total credit market debt: 9.3% average; 3.0% now
•Year over Year growth in household debt: 8.8% average; -0.1% now
•P/E Multiple: 16.8x average; 20.0x now
October 19th, 2009 at 9:53 pm
Barry, there is no end to this.. Everyone is hitting the numbers. I thought the chip makers would do well with double ordering but it looks like we will hit 1200 sp…The admin will put geitner or some other clown on tv and push it even higher. This could be a shorts dream coming up!!
October 19th, 2009 at 9:57 pm
In the 1990s the U.S. economy created a net 22 million jobs, or 2.2 million a year.
From 2000 to the end of 2007, the rate plunged to 900,000 a year.
From 2008 to present the rate is negative ??? and will continue to lag because in general the U.S. business model is broken expect of course for the banking oligarchs who will be getting $23B in bonuses
October 19th, 2009 at 10:01 pm
@10 cc: But some posters here claim we’re in a “mini economic boom”, so how can this be?
Perhaps some are so clueless about the world that exists outside of their own little elite bubble, they can’t see The Big Picture?
October 19th, 2009 at 10:02 pm
I challenge the whole premise that employment lags economic recoveries.
May be so in “normal economy” where consuming is NOT 70% of the economy.
To consume, you need money. For you to have a job & money, people will have to spend. Aren’t we in this vicious cycle? No one has answered to my satisfaction that how are we going to break out of this cycle? Except I hear this lazy man’s explanation that employment lags economic recoveries and blah blah blah…..
Let’s accept it – this is the new “normal”, permanent unemployment rate of 9 or 10% like our European brothers.
October 19th, 2009 at 10:04 pm
@madman130: But for those millions who are no longer paying their mortgage and living rent-free, there’s PLENTY of income left over to buy I-Thingy’s to our heart’s content.
October 19th, 2009 at 10:05 pm
Not to mention, any money that could have been used to create jobs have gone to wars/bailouts/cashforclunkers and mother of all useless spending “the obama care”.
October 19th, 2009 at 11:08 pm
I thought you were of the assumption that in a credit shock, unemployment is a coincident indicator. What changed?
October 19th, 2009 at 11:18 pm
This is the part of the business cycle where companies get lean and mean, contract their balance sheets and productivity increases. That is, companies get smarter, cheaper and better at what they do. The consumer, also sensing this, saves and also cuts spending, pays down debt, getting leaner at meaner at what he does.
The GOVT however, is not constrained by such trivial matters, and really must save private industry and the consumer from such foolish behavior. It expands its balance sheet with pet projects, prints a trillion dollars to give to insolvent banks (who then magically are profitable), gives everyone health insurance, buys a few car companies and mortgage companies, moves 40,000 more troops overseas, and gives congress a 5% raise for all its hard work.
Somehow, despite all its effort, in a few years time, they are even more broke than before.
Right about the time Industry and consumers are ready to rock, the GOVT will be forced, because of unforseeable deficits to tax you back to the stone age. Don’t worry these tax cuts will only affect those
October 19th, 2009 at 11:20 pm
of you making more than 200,00 dollars a year. That is the 2009 equivalent of 56.000 a year in 2014 devalued Bernanke Bucks.
Did i miss anything?
October 19th, 2009 at 11:20 pm
There are some compelling arguments being made that unemployment should be viewed as a leading indicator for this cycle, which is being driven by the collapse of credit and the destruction of our capital base.
e.g. In a Deleverage cycle, unemployment leads the economy lower.
This is one of the rare recessions that isn’t driven by an inventory cycle.
October 19th, 2009 at 11:28 pm
I talked to a lawyer friend in Mobile, and after 20 years in the biz, he is teetering on the edge. He’ll be able to hold onto his house for 6 more months at the present rate of loss. The quality of his clients has plummeted and so far shows no rebound at all. A large number are on disability. When he asks them why the reply is almost always “nerves”. I get the feeling that about 1/4 are on the brink, and that’s why we must have a V recovery or things get messy. And not just any V, but a screaming steroid laced recovery.
October 19th, 2009 at 11:56 pm
And the worm has turned: http://www.tnr.com/article/how-i-became-keynesian
October 20th, 2009 at 12:07 am
My son, who lives and works in Manhattan, says of his eight friends who are attorneys that were making between $300-500K, have their suburban McMansions, and young families, they are all out of jobs, and have no prospects.
Green shoots.
October 20th, 2009 at 12:09 am
“Local currencies are gaining popularity almost as quickly as our dollar is being debased. The following news report is from December of last year, the video highlights BerkShares which is a community currency circulated in the Berkshire region of Massachusetts.
The currency was launched in 2006, since that time over two million BerkShares have been created. The notes are used by more than 350 businesses and thousands of individuals in the area. Another popular currency is called the Ithaca hour which circulates in Ithaca, New York…”
http://ncoal.com/blog/?p=405
note, Nation has had History with similiar http://clusty.com/search?input-form=clusty-simple&v%3Asources=webplus&query=hard+times+tokens
October 20th, 2009 at 12:34 am
Mark E Hoffer,
The first link you posted. WTF. I don’t want this racist and anti-semitic dreck seen promoted here.
rc
October 20th, 2009 at 12:50 am
rootless,
a Story about Community Currencies is ‘racist’? and ‘anti-semetic’?
dude, you should spool up a new screen-name, try clueless_cosmopolitan
I’ll suppose you’ll think this link http://clusty.com/search?input-form=clusty-simple&v%3Asources=webplus&query=private+coinage is, at least, seditious, as well?
October 20th, 2009 at 1:08 am
Rootless, I am not sure what I am missing, I did not see the same thing you did from Mark’s post.
Can you explain why you concider this racist and/or Anti-semitic?
Thanks.
October 20th, 2009 at 1:15 am
Mark E Hoffer,
Not the story itself to which you referred. That one by itself appears to be harmless. But the ads and links right and left on this webpage. Have you even looked what else you find there? Links to Nazi literature, anti-semitic conspiracy theories, white supremacists etc. Allow me to vomit when I see this dreck and to express my objection to promoting it in any form, even if it happens accidentally.
rc
October 20th, 2009 at 1:20 am
madman130:
Health care is needless spending? What is your suggestion?
October 20th, 2009 at 1:21 am
Rootless – After your what you said I visited their site and agree with you – This is the first 2 paragraphs from thier web site. THANK YOU FOR POINTING THIS OUT.
In order to continually stimulate and facilitate local and national activism and to provide strong continuity for all White activists at all times, the Nationalist Coalition was created to network White activists within a cooperative infrastructure with the goal of pooling and coordinating all of our skills and resources towards a common self-evident cause; we promote whatever is good for our people, whatever strengthens our people, whatever increases the survivability of our people.
Welcome to our website! We hope to use this website as a gateway to anyone interested in learning more about the Nationalist Coalition, our activities and future projects. This site is also intended as an informative, educational resource for all of our people.
October 20th, 2009 at 1:21 am
@ MEH, you owe cosmopolitan an apology. Your link is to a white supremist web site, who cares if it talks about a local currency. It is extremely offensive. Of course, BR does not care about being PC
so maybe he doesn’t care, but I do.
Click through and see what the rest of the site promotes, which is white supremacy.
National Coalition, a new kind of white activism.
“”n order to continually stimulate and facilitate local and national activism and to provide strong continuity for all White activists at all times, the Nationalist Coalition was created to network White activists within a cooperative infrastructure with the goal of pooling and coordinating all of our skills and resources towards a common self-evident cause; we promote whatever is good for our people, whatever strengthens our people, whatever increases the survivability of our people.
Welcome to our website! We hope to use this website as a gateway to anyone interested in learning more about the Nationalist Coalition, our activities and future projects. This site is also intended as an informative, educational resource for all of our people.”"
“Nationalist Matters is our periodic radio program developed to educate and enlighten our people – people of European descent. Tune in each month for our latest broadcast. See below to read or listen to our most recent broadcast.”
“The White Community Scholarship
“With the costs of higher education skyrocketing, and the proven benefits to the various non-White communities of race-based scholarship funds (e.g., the United Negro College Fund’s positive impact on the Black community), ALLNAT PRODUCTIONS LLC and the Nationalist Coalition have created an annual scholarship competition to reward that driven student who has demonstrated commitment to helping the White community.”
October 20th, 2009 at 1:22 am
franklin420d,
I refer to all the racist and anti-semitic dreck, including Nazi literature and literature by Holocaust deniers, that can be found when you click on the first link that he posted, which leads to the “Nationalist Coalition Blog”. I don’t refer to what Mark wrote in his comment. I assume he just wanted to show this story about the local currencies w/o thinking about all the other stuff.
rc
October 20th, 2009 at 1:24 am
franklin420,
OK. I see you looked it up yourself, while I was writing my reply to your comment.
rc
October 20th, 2009 at 1:31 am
The wiki has an entire section about community currencies. The BerkShares came about not because of currency debasement but because they wanted to promote and sustain the local economies.
BerkShares are a local currency designed and issued for the Berkshire region of Massachusetts. According to the BerkShares website,[6] residents purchase BerkShares at 95 cents on the dollar from one of twelve branches of five local participating banks. Businesses then accept BerkShares at full dollar value, differentiating the business as one supporting the BerkShares values’ of local economy, ecology, sustainability, and community, and creating a five percent discount incentive for those using the currency. BerkShares can then be used by accepting businesses to purchase goods and services from other participating businesses, make change, pay salaries, or support local non-profits, increasing the local economic multiplier effect and keeping value recirculating in the region. If businesses have an excess of BerkShares, they may also be returned to a participating bank for an equivalent of 95 cents per BerkShare.
Over 70 area non-profits currently accept BerkShares for donations. Participating banks provide BerkShares with 12 brick-and-mortar offices where residents can exchange dollars for BerkShares and receive more information on the project.
[edit] Denominations
October 20th, 2009 at 1:38 am
rootless,
two things, I was linking to a story+vid clip about Community Currencies, and, as Noam Chomsky puts it: “If we do not believe in freedom of speech for those we despise we do not believe in it at all.”
http://www.wisdomquotes.com/001917.html
personally, I wouldn’t care if they were talking of Aliens living under the Denver Airport, or whether Martians were going to attack at Dawn, they’re Free to Choose, and so am I. And, for that matter, so are you.
October 20th, 2009 at 2:16 am
Mark E Hoffer,
And I think this is a pretty stupid quote by Chomsky, if it supposed to support unhindered freedom to express an ideology that promotes hate, enslavement and murder of people because of their skin color, or because they are Jewish, or because of their sexual orientation, or because they love freedom and oppose to the ideology of hate and death. It is stupid, because in this case, Chomsky would be gassed by the ones to whom he wants to give “freedom of speech”, if these people just got the opportunity to do so. Sorry, but my self-preservation is more important to me.
But my objection wasn’t even related to the meta-issue how far “freedom of speech” should go. Assuming we accept, out of higher idealist reasons, “freedom of speech” even for promoting racist and anti-semitic hate, or even mass murder, it doesn’t mean we have to help with the promotion. No one’s “freedom of speech” is impaired by not posting links to such dreck. So, even then my objection stands.
“personally, I wouldn’t care if they were talking of Aliens living under the Denver Airport, or whether Martians were going to attack at Dawn, they’re Free to Choose, and so am I. And, for that matter, so are you.”
So, you promote absolute “freedom of speech” about anything and whatever. Well, you say with this, for instance, I have the freedom to choose to publicly talk about how to best murder you and your family and I have the freedom to choose to publicly incite to the murder. Would you still not personally care in this case? I can’t really imagine you really believe this, but this is the consequence of what you are saying.
rc
October 20th, 2009 at 2:27 am
rootless,
these areas of Law have been, well, covered..
see: Course Materials: Freedom of Expression
This section addresses four sets of issues concerning free speech under the first amendment:
A. Our freedom of speech, protected by the First Amendment in the Bill of Rights, is one of our most basic constitutional rights. Yet the precise nature of what is protected by the First Amendment is often misunderstood.
B. The word speech in the First Amendment has been extended to a generous sense of “expression” — verbal, non-verbal, visual, symbolic. The artistic work supported by the NEA includes a variety of types of expression enjoying this broad protection.
C. Various exceptions to free speech have been recognized in American law, including obscenity, defamation, breach of the peace, incitement to crime, “fighting words,” and sedition.
D. The work of major philosophers who have considered freedom of expression (e.g., J.S. Mill and Joel Feinberg) is helpful in explaining the rationale for these exceptions.
http://www.csulb.edu/~jvancamp/freedom1.html
much of your ‘argument’ is covered in C., above..and, to be clear, I think C. well delineates the limits of ‘Freedom of Speech’.
October 20th, 2009 at 2:37 am
and, if you need to read this again, or for the first time..
Martin Niemöller
Niemoller stated he prefers the version as:
First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak out for me.
His poem is well-known, frequently quoted, and is a popular model for describing the dangers of political apathy, as it often begins with specific and targeted fear and hatred which soon escalates out of control.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came...
hopefully, wikipedia is an ‘approved’ source..
Wikipedia founder admits to serious quality problems
Yes it’s garbage, but it’s delivered so much faster!
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/10/18/wikipedia_quality_problem/
October 20th, 2009 at 2:39 am
Mark E Hoffner,
Thus, I don’t think we disagree on the principle that there isn’t a limitless free speech. And as I already said, with a few more words, my objection to posting the link doesn’t imply the impairment of anyone’s free speech.
rc
October 20th, 2009 at 3:02 am
Damn – people like rootless and Mark are what makes this site great.
Mark, posts a link about faxbucks, but is oblivious to the craddle it is placed in (i.e. White Supremists)
Myself and who knows how many others view Mark’s post and come away from it seeing a story about faxbucks and take away from it what they want.
Rootless, sees the craddle and not the story, rootless takes exception to the craddle and calls Mark on it.
Mark (Peraphras here) says “Who the Fuck cares” It is the story not the bed it is laid on that matters, rootless says the bed makes the story – after a couple exchanges of ideas they agree to disagree on the details, but except the over all differences in each others view points.
Hmmmmm, because everyone see things from thier point of view I do not take sides.
Then we have posters like Harry who only bait people, call them names and refuse to discuss things logically – this leads me to wonder, if I said “Who the Fuck Cares” and “I have a boner” in the same post, would my posts be subject to monitoring?
Oh who the fuck cares.
Mark and Rootless – thank you for your though filled dialog.
October 20th, 2009 at 3:15 am
yes, franklin420d, but don’t miss the subtleties..
note the only post, of Rootless’, where he has difficulty spelling my name..
hard to imagine, after 3 successful spellings in posts filled with invective and buzzwords, that it was a, mere, syntax error..
there’s an apt descriptive for that type of individual, but we wouldn’t want to offend the offensive, now, would we?
October 20th, 2009 at 3:18 am
franklin420d,
Thanks for the kudos.
rc
October 20th, 2009 at 3:55 am
Mark E Hoffer,
Sorry to disappoint you, but it was a typo indeed. I even wouldn’t have noticed, if you hadn’t pointed it out now.
“there’s an apt descriptive for that type of individual, but we wouldn’t want to offend the offensive, now, would we?”
What is this now? Some name calling and insult by innuendo at the end? In response to what? I don’t remember to have insulted you.
rc
October 20th, 2009 at 4:25 am
rootless,
to help you out, this: “there’s an apt descriptive for that type of individual” is a declarative statement.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/declarative
and, this: “but we wouldn’t want to offend the offensive, now, would we?”” is an interrogatory
http://www.rhlschool.com/eng2n19.htm as a refresher.
though, to keep it simple, I did refer to you as ‘offensive’. And, to A: your Q: “In response to what?”, see your own posts @ 1:15, and, moreso, @2:16
also, to join you in wearing a ‘thin-skin’, I find it insulting that you’d, freely, jump to the conclusion that my intent was to promote, or, in any way, support the, further content of that site–past what I was, specifically, highlighting, by context, in my original post.
you might care to consider taking it easy on the ‘ink blots’, they have a nasty habit of distracting one’s attention from the actual scene..
October 20th, 2009 at 4:44 am
this months employment report had a loss of around 40k for government jobs, this has just begun, the stimulus money allowed states and municipalities too keep the doors open, now they all have just completed there budget process, the lay-offs they are a coming, they have no money………they fund thru bond programs and if you don’t have new ones you don’t have new spending………..many state programs are in major trouble, in texas they have essentially run out of money in the kittey for unemployment, there solution, run the debt up until things get better, and double tax a few years from now………this is one item of hundreds………the states do not have a printing press
October 20th, 2009 at 5:07 am
Mark E Hoffer,
“to help you out, this: “there’s an apt descriptive for that type of individual” is a declarative statement.”
So what? As if declarative statements about a person couldn’t be mean as insult about the person. But, of course, you didn’t make any statement that was specific. You chose the innuendo instead. This makes the denial easier, afterward, doesn’t it?
“and, this: “but we wouldn’t want to offend the offensive, now, would we?”” is an interrogatory”
I do think I am able to recognize where an interrogatory is used rhetorically.
“see your own posts @ 1:15, and, moreso, @2:16″
I don’t see any insults by me toward you in these postings.
“I find it insulting that you’d, freely, jump to the conclusion that my intent was to promote, or, in any way, support the, further content of that site–past what I was, specifically, highlighting, by context, in my original post.”
Then the mistake is in your perception, since I didn’t say such a thing in any of my comments on this subject. On the contrary, I considered the possibility that it happened “accidentally” in my comment @1:15. And again, in my reply to franklin420d @1:22, I explicitly said that I assume you only wanted to show the story about the local currency. How much clearer could I become?
rc
October 20th, 2009 at 5:56 am
rootless,
to highlight: “So, you promote absolute “freedom of speech” about anything and whatever. Well, you say with this, for instance, I have the freedom to choose to publicly talk about how to best murder you and your family and I have the freedom to choose to publicly incite to the murder.” you’d like to pretend that your set piece isn’t offensive? and, then, have the temerity to question my perception?
That’s, rather, rich, no?
~~
past that, this: “…Bling targets a small community which has a decent population and financial asset size, and which is served primarily by local community banks. They sign up one or more of the banks, and an assortment of frequently-visited local merchants (movies, pizza, dry cleaners…). The banks provide customers with a payment sticker (co-branded with Bling and the bank’s brand) and instructions on how to enroll their phone in the service.
The merchants are given a stand-alone device (called a “Blinger”) for payments acceptance. At time of purchase, the consumer taps the Blinger, the transaction is processed and the consumer and merchant both receive confirmation of payment – the consumer to their mobile phone and the merchant on their Blinger. Bling also supports a variety of merchant rewards, loyalty, discount, and couponing programs, all tied to mobile phone messaging.
Sounds like any debit card or open loop network-branded prepaid card, right? Wrong! There is no network brand on the sticker or the Blinger. Transactions are authorized by the consumer’s bank – Bling looks like a foreign ATM to the bank. Settlement in batch is done at night, between Bling and the banks, as a private, not network, settlement. The merchant doesn’t have to submit any clearing transactions – as long as they got the Blinger confirmation, they know their account will be credited that day.
Bling is finding that the operational management of this is pretty straight forward – and, significantly, that the processors which are serving many of their target banks are willing and able partners…”
http://paymentsviews.com/2009/10/19/blinging-it-home-a-look-at-bling-nation/
looks like good news for Customers y Merchants, not so much for Visa & MasterCard..
~~
and, here http://www.paymentsnews.com the trend toward Debit, and Pre-Paid, Cards is growing quickly, and, quite, telling–esp. in context of the Thread..
October 20th, 2009 at 7:15 am
Finding a job is difficult. Creating your own income offers you a better chance of surviving and is much easier. The world has changed in your favor!
Here’s the best part: it’s easier to try than it is to say “it can’t be done.”
October 20th, 2009 at 7:46 am
F420.. good one .. “sees the craddle and not the story” .. the layers of freedom we’ve got ..
cash flow .. promotion .. (or not) .. if we only knew “the rest of the story”
be careful who your friends are .. lie down with dogs you may get up with fleas
TBP in a big blue browning world .. I wonder what the other 6.3 billion think along these lines
October 20th, 2009 at 9:41 am
warning anecdote ahead…we closed on an bank owned condo last week, bought it for less 30% of what it sold for two years ago. asked the closing agent how things are looking from her pov, said she thinks we’re nowhere near bottom yet.
October 20th, 2009 at 11:07 am
globaleyes: Excellent post. Refreshing to see something positive rather than the gloom spread here constantly. Thanks!
October 20th, 2009 at 11:10 am
Mark E Hoffer,
Context matters. You also should have quoted what followed: “Would you still not personally care in this case? I can’t really imagine you really believe this, but this is the consequence of what you are saying.”, and to what statement by you I replied, when I wrote this. In your statement you had said that you personally don’t care what anyone is talking. This you said in the context of a discussion about the relationship between “freedom of speech” and ideologies of hate and death.
I was trying to make an argumentative point in reply to your statement by showing the logical consequence that followed from your own chain of argument. It wasn’t meant to insult you. And I, honestly, still don’t think what I said contained any insult against you. But you perceived it differently, obviously. Your reaction proves my point somewhat, though. You do care in certain instances what someone else is talking. But then, you also should care, if you don’t belong to the groups of people who are mainly targeted by the haters and someone else is targeted by them.
rc
October 20th, 2009 at 2:18 pm
rootless,
look, at what I did say: “personally, I wouldn’t care if they were talking of Aliens living under the Denver Airport, or whether Martians were going to attack at Dawn, they’re Free to Choose, and so am I. And, for that matter, so are you.”
see, well-know-n/-able limits of ‘Free Speech’, esp. here: C. Various exceptions to free speech have been recognized in American law, including obscenity, defamation, breach of the peace, incitement to crime, “fighting words,” and sedition.
to me, there’s a gross disconnect between our examples..
and, if you haven’t seen this, previously eaten, post: “October 20th, 2009 at 2:37 am
and, if you need to read this again, or for the first time..
Martin Niemöller
Niemoller stated he prefers the version as:
First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak out for me.
His poem is well-known, frequently quoted, and is a popular model for describing the dangers of political apathy, as it often begins with specific and targeted fear and hatred which soon escalates out of control…”
LSS: Don’t tell me about this: “But then, you also should care, if you don’t belong to the groups of people who are mainly targeted by the haters and someone else is targeted by them.”, moralistic B******t. Those people’s, Any people’s, Liberty ends at the beginning of any other people’s Liberty.
though, something tells me you’d give this person a pass: “Anita Dunn, is described by the online encyclopedia Wikipedia as “one of the major decision makers of the Obama campaign” and as one of Obama’s “four top advisers (along with David Axelrod, David Plouffe, and Robert Gibbs).” She currently holds the position of “White House Communications Director.” She is married to the President’s personal lawyer, Robert Bauer. In 2008, Newsweek named Dunn and Bauer the new “power couple” in Washington, D.C.
This last June, at a high-school commencement exercise, Dunn had this to say:
the third lesson and tip actually comes from two of my favorite political philosophers Mao Tse-tung and Mother Teresa, not often coupled with each other, but the two people that I turn to most to basically deliver a simple point which is you’re going to make choices, you’re going to challenge, you’re going to say why not…. In 1947, when Mao Tse-tung was being challenged within his own party on his plan to basically take China over, Chiang Kai-Shek and the nationalist Chinese held the cities, they had the army, they had the air force, they had everything on their side and people said, “How can you win, how can you do this, how can you do this, how can you do this against all of the odds against you?” And Mao Tze Tung said, “You fight your war and I’ll fight mine.” [Dunn's remarks appear in this online video.]..”
http://mises.org/story/3796
~~
“TEL AVIV – President Obama’s presidential campaign focused on “making” the news media cover certain issues while rarely communicating anything to the press unless it was “controlled,” White House Communications Director Anita Dunn disclosed to the Dominican government at a videotaped conference.
“Very rarely did we communicate through the press anything that we didn’t absolutely control,” said Dunn.
“One of the reasons we did so many of the David Plouffe videos was not just for our supporters, but also because it was a way for us to get our message out without having to actually talk to reporters,” said Dunn, referring to Plouffe, who was Obama’s chief campaign manager.
“We just put that out there and made them write what Plouffe had said as opposed to Plouffe doing an interview with a reporter. So it was very much we controlled it as opposed to the press controlled it,” Dunn said.
Continued Dunn: “Whether it was a David Plouffe video or an Obama speech, a huge part of our press strategy was focused on making the media cover what Obama was actually saying as opposed to why the campaign was saying it, what the tactic was. … Making the press cover what we were saying.”
Video of Dunn’s remarks at the conference can be seen below: …
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=113347#
October 20th, 2009 at 4:58 pm
Mark E Hoffer,
I don’t know where you are going with Dunn. Do you think I shouldn’t give her a pass? For what, specifically? Is she engaging in hate speech? Has she incited to hate, persecution, or murder against groups of people?
rc
October 20th, 2009 at 5:05 pm
“hate speech”, rootless, you’re a Treasure.
if you don’t know the History that Mao is responsible for, in the words of HarryWanger, you are scary stupid..
but, like I said, “something tells me you’d give this person a pass.”. Hope that works out for you.
October 20th, 2009 at 5:19 pm
Mark E Hoffer,
I know China’s history. Well, maybe not every finest detail. Are you claiming Dunn wants to implement a Maoist regime in United States? Do a “Great Leap”? Implement economic policies a la Mao? Or a “Culture Revolution”? Create inhuman prison camps with low survival rates?
You are talking about “giving a pass”. What is this supposed to mean? How do I give her a pass? Oder how don’t I? What do you want from me?
rc