Wise Words from Economists ?
Mike Panzner just got back from The Economist’s “Buttonwood Gathering” in New York and thought I’d share a few of the more interesting (and, in some cases, quite enlightening) quotes (in no particular order) from the movers-and-shakers at the (well attended) conference:
Secretary Tim Geithner, United States Department of the Treasury:
“Generally, we did not do enough.” (Referring to the failure to address growing concerns over excessive risk-taking in the period leading up to the financial crisis.) [Editor's note: understatement of the year?]
Stephen Roach, Chairman, Morgan Stanley Asia:
Those who are looking for a “V”-shaped recovery are in for “a rude awakening.”
“The imbalances going into the crisis were large to begin with. Now, they are bigger than ever.”
George Soros, Chairman, Soros Fund Management:
“Bankers have too much power.” (Referring to the hold that Wall Street has over Washington.)
The “globalization of financial markets is built on false premises: namely, that markets can be left to their own devices.”
Sheila C. Bair, Chairman, Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation:
“Insured deposits are being used in ways that I don’t like to see.”
Wilbur L. Ross Jr., Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, WL Ross & Co.:
People were focused on “risk-ignoring rates of return.” (Describing one of the things that went helped bring about the financial crisis.)
If regulators had taken the time to visit a Countrywide Lending office, they would have seen something akin to “a Wall Street boiler room,” rather than a bank branch. (Referring to regulator’s unwillingness to go out into the field and see what was really going on during the housing boom.)
“Government is its own systemic risk in the mortgage market.”
Lawrence H. Summers, Director of the National Economic Council, The White House:
The root of most financial errors is “when you try to do today what you wished you had done yesterday.”
“I can assure you that on Main Street, it is a very different conversation.” (Referring to the contrast between the optimism on Wall Street and the more pessimistic mood of those struggling to get by in other parts of the country.)
“It is not the administrations’s view to bribe those who have been part of the problems we have experienced to do what is in the national interest.” (Referring to the suggestion that banks and other financial institutions need financial incentives to support proposed regulatory changes.)
Jeffrey D. Sachs, Director of The Earth Institute, Quetelet Professor of Sustainable Development, and Professor of Health Policy and Management, Columbia University:
“It was grotesque.” (Referring to fact that, despite its extraordinary size, the $62 trillion credit default swap market was essentially unregulated.)
“This was a crisis made in the U.S.” (Referring to the suggestion that China’s export policies played a key role in creating the credit bubble.)
Niall Ferguson, Laurence A. Tisch Professor of History, Harvard University, William Ziegler Professor of Business Administration, Harvard Business School:
“We are living though a gradual shift away from a dollar-centric system.”
“Is China the Germany of our time?” (Referring to the combination of economic dynamism and growing nationalism that stoked the aggressive ambitions of Nazi Germany.)
“The problem of being a declining empire doesn’t have a solution.” (Referring to the suggestion that a great many, if not all, of America’s problems are fixable.)
Robert J. Shiller, Arthur M. Okun Professor of Economics, Yale University:
“Look up ‘bubble’ in an economic textbook and it’s not there.” (Referring to the shortcomings of the traditional economic curriculum.).
People “are living in a ‘pretend-and-extend’ environment, waiting for the economy to recover.” (Referring to the precarious state of the commercial real estate market and the wave of resets coming due between 2011 and 2013.)
Elizabeth Warren, Chair, TARP Congressional Oversight Panel:
“The reason banks lost confidence in each other is because they looked at their own books.” (Referring to the loss of confidence that roiled markets during the darkest days of the crisis.)
Thanks, Mike!
October 17th, 2009 at 12:08 pm
good stuff… would like to see a more in depth post on this event…
thanks mr. panzner!
October 17th, 2009 at 12:12 pm
Bend over. Put your hands on your knees. Kiss your as goodbye.
Get your finger out of your ass. Stop licking your finger.
School of Hard Knocks 101
October 17th, 2009 at 12:15 pm
Congressman Louis T. McFadden
“We have, in this country, one of the most corrupt institutions the world has ever known. I refer to the Federal Reserve Board. This evil institution has impoverished the people of the United States and has practically bankrupted our government. It has done this through the corrupt practices of the moneyed vultures who control it”.
October 17th, 2009 at 12:41 pm
A timely post for my current state of mind. I’m not going to lie – I am tired. Has anyone watched Artic tale where the polar bear dies? That is me – a very tired bear. I am disgusted with world leaders, especially in the USA. I am about to finally concede, sell all shorts, and curl up with a bottle of Jack – a big bottle of Jack. But before I concede I will endure one more week as this is expiration week. I hate to time markets or attempt to call a top but the sentiment around the markets may not be at all time highs but, considering where we have come from, they are relatively at all time highs, in my opinion. On the other hand, dollar sentiment is at all time lows – even below sentiment readings at the actual lows upon which we are quickly gaining. I am betting – literally, I might add – the current dollar situation is the equivalent to equities at the March low. If this is correct we should see the end of the carry trade in USD putting major pressure on short sellars and spectacular rebound in the USD, much like we have recently witnessed in equities. If I am wrong (as I have been consistently for months), I’m done because, quite frankly, the game is run by crooked dealers to shaft anyone who looks at reality, to reward “yes men” (read Brian and Harry) in the short run, and to fuck EVERYONE – minus the usual known crew – in the long run.
Thank you for your time.
p.s. I highly recommend the Max Keiser video. It is like watching Wanger debate (“debate” used very loosely) most posters here. I’ll let you figure out who Wanger is.
October 17th, 2009 at 1:00 pm
What’d they used to say: “Don’t fight the Fed”?
October 17th, 2009 at 1:43 pm
I don’t think i could be more disgusted than i am right now. Our nation is desperate need of a leader to incite the masses. The thought that our sons and daughters will continue to pay( for generations ) the fruits of their labors to support insolvent financial institutions should disgust all Americans to the point of hysteria. And they are not done yet. They will continue to require more tax dollars as the years go by and the value of their “assets” decrease., all the while paying themselves. This is immoral and unAmerican beyond comprehension. In “saving us”, they have mortgaged(no pun intended) our future prosperity.
I have no problem with anyone making themselves rich, but when you lose, YOU LOSE!! You go bust and the smarter money buy up your assets and create – from what you have destroyed.
Goldman, if your conterparties (AIG) can’t pay, get in line and go to court like everyone else!!!
Bernanke, Paulson, Obama, Geithner, Frank, Greenspan, Dodd and many more all should be jailed.
If this were happening in Russia or Mexico we would laugh, and yet here it is on our porch. The Great expirement in human liberty called America is in danger. The Gargoyles have taken over the Cathedral.
I for one have absolutley had it. Sorry for the rant.
PS At times like these the great men of this nation have an obligation to stand up and be heard. Society requires it. Morality demands it. This nation is counting on you. Are you out there?
October 17th, 2009 at 1:45 pm
Please someone tell me i am crazy, is this not insane?
October 17th, 2009 at 1:50 pm
I. The Concept of Sustainable Development
4 The satisfaction of human needs and aspirations in the major objective of development. The essential needs of vast numbers of people in developing countries for food, clothing, shelter, jobs – are not being met, and beyond their basic needs these people have legitimate aspirations for an improved quality of life. A world in which poverty and inequity are endemic will always be prone to ecological and other crises. Sustainable development requires meeting the basic needs of all and extending to all the opportunity to satisfy their aspirations for a better life.
5. Living standards that go beyond the basic minimum are sustainable only if consumption standards everywhere have regard for long-term sustainability. Yet many of us live beyond the world’s ecological means, for instance in our patterns of energy use. Perceived needs are socially and culturally determined, and sustainable development requires the promotion of values that encourage consumption standards that are within the bounds of the ecological possible and to which all can reasonably aspire.
http://www.un-documents.net/ocf-02.htm
and this dude – Jeffrey D. Sachs, Director of The Earth Institute, Quetelet Professor of Sustainable Development, and Professor of Health Policy and Management, Columbia University
goes with: ““This was a crisis made in the U.S.” (Referring to the suggestion that China’s export policies played a key role in creating the credit bubble.)”
sounds like the ‘Cained Peep are the responsible parties..no doubt, a lot of Ignorance, and serious inattention, go a long way, but, from his chair, leaving the PROC off the hook? http://clusty.com/search?input-form=clusty-simple&v%3Asources=webplus&query=China+environmental+disaster
I guess when one is charged with carrying out/promulgating this idea: “Our Common Future, Chapter 2: Towards Sustainable Development” (from the first link above)
It helps to knee-cap, in any way possible, the faster runners in the race..
If that guy wasn’t, totally, FOS, he’d be taking the FedRes, and its associated other CBs, to task for queering the Pricing Signals of the Marketplace that lead to the malinvestments they, purported, are convened to address..
LSS: You’re being lied to, again.
October 17th, 2009 at 1:52 pm
@mcHAPPY 12:41 pm
You have my sincere sympathies. I abandoned my short positions several months back, but stayed in cash until about a month ago, when I began moving back into undervalued growth stocks and high-dividend yield stocks, with preference given to foreign stocks. I am ready to pull the trigger and go completely short at a moment’s notice.
Life is miserable, being fully aware of just how far up we are, and how only fantasy is supporting us against the relentless gravitational pull of Reality. But as the Master said (undeniably a Master of pithy quotes), “the markets can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent”. Fighting the market is even more self-destructive than fighting the Fed.
Go long, but keep one hand on the eject button. This ain’t no bull market, it has no robust economy to push it, only the phantasm of zero rates and a declining dollar, which cannot last forever.
The Bears will rise again …
October 17th, 2009 at 1:52 pm
@scharfy
your rant speaks truth to corrupt power.
The Triumph of the Banking Oligarchs will continue until enough Americans wake up and/or take action on a dysfunctional economic system dependent on increasing debt, faux GDP growth, ponzi schemes and bubbles with politicians on both sides kicking the can down the road.
October 17th, 2009 at 2:10 pm
Guys, judging by what I’ve read on the mortgage mod programs and the way banks use it to delay writedowns, bears might have to wait until Q1 or even Q2 next year for things to go their way.
“Extend and pretend” is more powerful than I anticipated. (Must be prescription-strength Enzyte…)
October 17th, 2009 at 2:26 pm
“Please someone tell me i am crazy, is this not insane?”
scharfy, you’re not crazy. Yes, it is insane. There’s an article on clusterstock right now and the commenters are all saying pretty much what you just said. If you ever read The Daily Bail, it’s the same thing over there — all bailouts, all the time. You’re not alone by a longshot. It’s just that most Americans have no clue about finance or markets and they’ll see Raj whatshisface getting frog-marched and think the govt. is “getting tough” finally. We just have to keep spreading the word.
What do you think BR has been doing the last year? And now we have Dylan Ratigan, and even HuffPo is talking abou tthe bailouts. There are good signs out there — “green shoots” if you will — but we’ll see.
October 17th, 2009 at 2:36 pm
Mark@1:50
Can you translate “Cained Peep?
October 17th, 2009 at 2:36 pm
@wunsacon 2:10 pm
“… bears might have to wait until Q1 or even Q2 next year for things to go their way …”
I think the plan is to extend and pretend all the way to December 2012.
That would seem to be impossible to achieve, but I have to admit, I’m been impressed by the imagination and creativity employed to date in this endeavor. I think they’ll extend and pretend until it breaks.
October 17th, 2009 at 2:36 pm
@clawback
Yea, that was hilarious when they marched that Raj guy out in cuffs. Reminded me, of when the DEA puts some small time drug dealer on the front page to show how they are winning “the war”, but really are aiding and abetting and profitting from it all the way.. Stalin would be smile by the level of propaganda out ther in modern US.
I am calm now…. thx:)
October 17th, 2009 at 2:43 pm
Daffyorbugs.
American People degraded to ‘Cained Peep..
see http://clusty.com/search?input-form=clusty-simple&v%3Asources=webplus&query=the+poisons+in+our+food for starters
http://clusty.com/search?input-form=clusty-simple&v%3Asources=webplus&query=excitotoxins
http://clusty.com/search?input-form=clusty-simple&v%3Asources=webplus&query=TV+is+an+opiate
to begin with..
October 17th, 2009 at 2:53 pm
Wise words? More like blurry hindsight.
The common tread amongst most of these folks is the mistaken idea that if they were just left alone in a room they could tinker with things and all would be right in the kingdom. It is exactly this thinking, as championed by the Krugman’s of the world that has us in the the current predicament.
October 17th, 2009 at 3:02 pm
“…the mistaken idea that if they were just left alone in a room they could tinker with things and all would be right in the kingdom. It is exactly this thinking, as championed by the Krugman’s of the world that has us in the the current predicament.”
Bam! Nail, meet hammer. This is exactly the problem, but it’s also going to be the problem going forward, too. Tim Geithner and his f***ing “judgement.” As in, “In our judgement we had to throw taxpayer money down the AIG CDS rathole, even though it was very distasteful to have to do, but in our judgement we had no other choice but to screw the taxpayer — for his own good.”
October 17th, 2009 at 3:23 pm
Yes. In parts of the world where purchases of raw materials can be justified by profitable industrial output, the recession is over. For those countries for who the high costs of raw materials make their way of life unsustainable (hint-hint), stagflation is here.
October 17th, 2009 at 3:52 pm
How much more interesting would the conference have been if everyone there were given an injection of sodium pentathol and then asked what they think of Larry Summers.
October 17th, 2009 at 4:22 pm
Not to worry boys and girls as once again Goldman Sachs has our backs as Glenn Greenwald reports:
” A Goldman Sachs executive has been named the first chief operating officer of the Securities and Exchange Commission’s enforcement division.
The market watchdog says Adam Storch, vice president in Goldman Sachs’ Business Intelligence Group, is assuming the new position of managing executive of the SEC division.”
What’s next – Dick Cheney as the special prosecutor for the torture investigation?
October 17th, 2009 at 4:24 pm
Mark
So ‘Cained Peep means the food is poisoned and tv is the opiate of the masses? Do you get laid?
October 17th, 2009 at 4:37 pm
Re: Wilbur L. Ross Jr., Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, WL Ross & Co.:
People were focused on “risk-ignoring rates of return.” (Describing one of the things that went helped bring about the financial crisis.)
If regulators had taken the time to visit a Countrywide Lending office, they would have seen something akin to “a Wall Street boiler room,” rather than a bank branch. (Referring to regulator’s unwillingness to go out into the field and see what was really going on during the housing boom.)
“Government is its own systemic risk in the mortgage market.”
———————————————–
No truer words have ever been spoken about this crisis but I’d change the last line to..
“Government is its own systemic risk in its approach to fixing this and past financial crises.”
I blame it on a willfully mass blindness and acceptance of Keynesian doctrines … They worked poorly in addressing the problems in the 1930s and in Japan in the 1990s.
Why should they work now?
Matt Blackman
TradeSystemGuru.com
October 17th, 2009 at 4:38 pm
Daffyorbugs,
I think it’s safe to say that propositioning MEH is slightly OFF TOPIC. Please!
October 17th, 2009 at 4:40 pm
Get a room, guys!
October 17th, 2009 at 4:44 pm
Paul Jones:
I don’t think anyone is out of harm’s way, yet. The global economy is a complex machine in which we’ve stripped the teeth off of a good number of the major gears (the American consumer, the dollar, and globally-distributed toxic securities, to name a few). Profitable industrial output is difficult when your largest customer is broke. Maybe their own populations will suck up the excess,but I don’t think they can pay full (American) price (that’s why our jobs went there).
October 17th, 2009 at 5:30 pm
Daffy,
that’s quite OK, if you can’t understand what ‘for starters’, and ‘to begin with’, means, I’m sure the meaning of a whole bunch of other stuff is lost on you, too..
keep hewing to this line, delineated, well, by Neid’s apercu: “is the (mistaken) idea that if they were just left alone in a room they could tinker with things and all would be right in the kingdom. It is exactly this thinking, as championed by the Krugman’s of the world that has us in the the current predicament.”, I’m sure it will satisfy your curiosities.
~~
more importantly, this: Stephen Roach, Chairman, Morgan Stanley Asia:
“Those who are looking for a “V”-shaped recovery are in for “a rude awakening.”
“The imbalances going into the crisis were large to begin with. Now, they are bigger than ever.”
Roach was, way, out ahead in calling the oncoming problem(s).
August 23, 2005
Bubble after bubble (Steven Roach)
Bubble after bubble has since percolated to the surface during this
period of extraordinary monetary accommodation — especially in a
multitude of fixed income products (i.e., Treasuries, investment-grade
corporates, high-yield bonds, emerging market debt, and a host of
credit instruments). With overnight money basically free in real
terms, the “carry trade” was a no-brainer — investors and speculators
alike could pocket the spread anywhere on the yield curve. This
created an artificial demand for fixed income securities that was
quick to take on bubble-like implications of its own.
Out of this same mania, the property bubble was borne. Behavioral
economics tells us the American consumer should have been decimated
once the equity bubble popped in 2000 — the pain of loss should have
been far greater than the ecstasy of gain. But US households never
skipped a beat. House price inflation took over where the equity
bubble left off, and the Fed’s post-bubble rescue plan facilitated the
greatest bonanza of them all — a massive wave of home mortgage
refinancing that became a powerful supplement for an income-short US
consumer.
The home became the cash machine — the manna from heaven
that drew its sustenance from rock-bottom interest rates. And it
became contagious — as most bubbles do….”
http://omor.com/SF/archives/2005/08/index.html
as, but, one ex.
October 17th, 2009 at 5:42 pm
If my sweetie is bouncing on top of me and they drop the big one, I hope it lands right on top of us, I don’t care.
Roach was short for ten years, he got shipped to Asia.
I’m trying to make money, not hide under my desk.
October 17th, 2009 at 6:17 pm
Tim Geithner comes across as an intelligent individual but also as one who has limited experience outside of the confines of Wall Street. His view of the world is the investment banking view of the world. He simply does not understanding what the real world is like for the other 300+ million Americans who do not live in the IB/NYC sphere of wealth and privilege.
Perhaps Geithner should go on a road trip and seek to understand what it is like to not have a job or to live on a lower income from reduced hours, or to live off dwindling savings or one’s parents former retirement accounts or to lose one’s homestead and see the American dream collapse around them.
Then he may be less sympathetic to IB arm twisting and more understanding of the need to help out folks in the tens of thousands of “Main Streets” that make up most of this formerly great country of ours.
October 17th, 2009 at 6:29 pm
That there are still grown men here thinking someone is out there— some brilliant , honest leader, let alone several to solve what it took thousands of dishonest corrupt men with access to the levers of government, the SEC, Treasury, and the “Federal” reserve, creating ill-gotten multi trillion dollar fortunes for a select few with the stroke of a pen, is amazing. $24 billion is right now being set aside for Lord Blankfein’s minions, as we sit here. If no one gets killed with this outrage about to be shoved down our throats, then you can pretty forget about a populace who will revolt. That isn’t likely to happen even if their money becomes nearly worthless while the billion dollar bonus babies fly off to retirement in Mustique, Rio, or Costa Rica.
There are no heroes, those of you who seek them. Heroes are myths—as was Hero herself, who incidentally drowned when she thought, erroneously, that her lover was dead.
There are no solutions that will undo the massive debts laid upon the next generations, none. There are even more of these trillion dollar debts about to be laid once again. This bell cannot be unrung.
The upcoming producers of the world, those who actually produce something others value, who are right this second entering the working population (in the smallest numbers ever BTW), are increasingly indoctrinated in the philosophy of the left, wherein government is the solution to the problems government created. If you believe that this is going to result in anything other than a form of Communism, then you also believe in the Easter bunny.
This was avoidable but a traitor or many of them were in our midst, the spineless republicans (I spit at them).
The republicans betrayed every principle republicanism ever stood for, for over 12 years. They handed the keys to the kingdom and laid out a red carpet to the left and they were the only chance we had begining in 1994. Whether a sign of prejudice or not, no way in hell, in a rational world, after 9/11, would a man named Barask Hussein Obama be president today. So there is no savior (s) out there. The problems of one of our troubled states would overwhelm a dozen Einsteins. The complexities of a country with nearly 400,000,000 people, succumbing to rampant illegal immigration (being encouraged and rewarded right now in front of the Washington monument, in a cold rain) ought to give pause to anyone who thinks there is way to govern a nation of 50 states, over millions of square miles.
All that will happen from TheBamster ( or anyone else in his place) is some marginal change that will be but a band-aid on our hemorhagging wounds.
If mordant, think of us as a bull with the picadors weakening us for the kill.
October 17th, 2009 at 6:34 pm
Daffy,
you’re ripping Roach for his timing and, in the same post, go with: “If my sweetie is ..”
maybe, you’d care to avail yourself to this public service, provided, kindly, by Hofstra http://people.hofstra.edu/Stefan_Waner/RealWorld/logic/logicintro.html
might, even, help you understand how you could have made all kinds of Ca$h with Roach’s insight..
like this individual http://www.nydailynews.com/money/2008/01/16/2008-01-16_queensborn_john_paulson_makes_fortune_on.html
but, like I was saying: “there’s a whole bunch of other stuff is lost on you”, GL with the ‘money’ chase..
October 17th, 2009 at 6:49 pm
Barry,
Any other transcripts you can get ahold of from this event would be appreciated, thanks
October 17th, 2009 at 6:57 pm
@flipspiceland Says: October 17th, 2009 at 6:29 pm
> There are no solutions that will undo the massive debts laid upon the next generations, none. There are even more of these trillion dollar debts about to be laid once again. This bell cannot be unrung.
Bingo… just take a look at http://www.usdebtclock.org/ and cringe !
IMO America will be more Darwinian
October 17th, 2009 at 7:40 pm
Ponchovilla Says:
October 17th, 2009 at 12:12 pm
Bend over. Put your hands on your knees. Kiss your as goodbye.
Get your finger out of your ass. Stop licking your finger.
School of Hard Knocks 101
—–
Filth you posted belongs on Yahoo Message Boards.. disgusting. Think you are a “Hot Shot?” Watch too much Reality TEE VEE….or had bad “Home Schooling?
Ayyy…
October 17th, 2009 at 8:10 pm
flipspiceland at 6:29pm – “indoctrinated in the philosophy of the left, wherein government is the solution to the problems government created. If you believe that this is going to result in anything other than a form of …..”
… government is the common mans union for a fair days pay for effort; and an ally against danger; (usually)
stoic capitalism is the polar opposite .. wring every once of effort from the bones for the managements pockets; time clocks for punctuality; retain as much wealth as the possible; pay as little out in taxes to support the infrastructure
if you don’t believe in allies .. then . well .. you are taking on the world by yourself .. or the union you believe in …. went back to see who that might be .. you sound young and indoctrinated GOP
when I write “control of the government is the best path to prosperity” its a wake up call to control both powers gently in baby steps (Dems & Reps) not a siren call for one team to beat the other to death
the 21st century world is not one that a common man would be wise to take on the super-corporations by ones self .. they have the power of money .. and money buys lawyers and legal experts and otherwise greases palms … you know that … when this mess gets straightened out .. we best push for Amendments to the Constitution … so when you come of age .. you don’t payback the 2080s like same
October 17th, 2009 at 8:23 pm
flipspiceland Says:
“The upcoming producers of the world, those who actually produce something others value, who are right this second entering the working population (in the smallest numbers ever BTW), are increasingly indoctrinated in the philosophy of the left, wherein government is the solution to the problems government created.”
“Whether a sign of prejudice or not, no way in hell, in a rational world, after 9/11, would a man named Barask Hussein Obama be president today.”
__________
I disagree with the first paragraph, above. Government is neither the source or the remedy of all of our social ills, and pinning such a philosophy and/or propaganda on the “left” is simply ignorant. Tell me where a right-wing government ideology ever made a nation great. Government is a necessary evil. Progressive government is the only government that can adapt to a changing world.
As for the second part of your comment, rationality is why Obama got elected (not that he’s following through, but it’s why he got elected). By your logic, should we not elect anyone named Tim because of the Oklahoma City bombing? Focusing on his name as a condition of electability would seem to explain why the right is viewed as a bunch of clowns. If that’s your idea of rational thought, I don’t want any.
October 17th, 2009 at 8:28 pm
Finally, someone publicly saying what history has indicated all along ( reprint from TheBigPicture )…… my comments in blue
Niall Ferguson, Laurence A. Tisch Professor of History, Harvard University, William Ziegler Professor of Business Administration, Harvard Business School:
“We are living though a gradual shift away from a dollar-centric system.”
we are taking the same role as England took on at the point of the great depression. Finance yes. Nationalized Healthcare ( 1948 ) yes. Manufacturing no.
“Is China the Germany of our time?” (Referring to the combination of economic dynamism and growing nationalism that stoked the aggressive ambitions of Nazi Germany.)
the parallel is obvious, including the Olympics parallel
“The problem of being a declining empire doesn’t have a solution.” (Referring to the suggestion that a great many, if not all, of America’s problems are fixable.)
some things have a logical conclusion and there is no other way…. history rhymes. Human nature doesn’t change so America will not be able to make the changes necessary … the public wouldn’t tolerate it… see Jeremy Granthams latest publication re: Carter vs Reagan.
October 17th, 2009 at 9:38 pm
Niall Ferguson’s: “The problem of being a declining empire doesn’t have a solution.” (Referring to the suggestion that a great many, if not all, of America’s problems are fixable.)
First, I’m sorry for the many posters who are obviously very troubled by this political/economic disaster brought to us largely by the people WE and our neighbors elected to guide America.
Dr Ferguson sounds like he has thrown in the towel. Well, the rest of us had better think about posting our thoughts with our Congressperson and simultaneously looking for ways to:
1) Curtail lobbyist influence by backing government-funded campaigns with jail terms for abusers (both for the acceptees and the bribers). Somebody has to pay the bill. Its our choice.
2) Find and support (yes, donate…its corrupt but the only system we presently have) candidates who demonstrate a knowledge of economic theory, business sense and have a history of ethical behavior.
3) Propose reasonable solutions (rather than verbal bomb throwing diatribes that don’t advance the discussion). Start locally. Larry and Tim don’t read our flame mail. They just hire (and probably overpay someone to read the avalanche).
4) Create a plan to educate your current Congressperson as well as the less knowledgeable people around you. Focus on positive steps these individuals can take to put things right. Set a goal to meet with your Congessperson to discuss your ideas about current legislation. At the very least, write him or her and put your position in straightforward terms with well reasoned supporting evidence. If they think you have value, you will be asked for more.
5) Don’t give up. Think of the times this country could have “lost it”. Valley Forge? Look how few it took to turn things around.
Too many people have given their lives for what we believe in. We owe it to them to honor their sacrifice.
5) Add your own action items here_______. (Then act on them!)
October 17th, 2009 at 10:05 pm
bonderman Says:
1) Curtail lobbyist influence by backing government-funded campaigns with jail terms for abusers (both for the acceptees and the bribers). Somebody has to pay the bill. Its our choice.
2) Find and support (yes, donate…its corrupt but the only system we presently have) candidates who demonstrate a knowledge of economic theory, business sense and have a history of ethical behavior.
3) Propose reasonable solutions (rather than verbal bomb throwing diatribes that don’t advance the discussion). Start locally. Larry and Tim don’t read our flame mail. They just hire (and probably overpay someone to read the avalanche).
4) Create a plan to educate your current Congressperson as well as the less knowledgeable people around you. Focus on positive steps these individuals can take to put things right. Set a goal to meet with your Congessperson to discuss your ideas about current legislation. At the very least, write him or her and put your position in straightforward terms with well reasoned supporting evidence. If they think you have value, you will be asked for more.
5) Don’t give up. Think of the times this country could have “lost it”. Valley Forge? Look how few it took to turn things around.
Too many people have given their lives for what we believe in. We owe it to them to honor their sacrifice.
—————
Well said, “bonderman!.”
Too many people have worked to long and too many new folks are dealing with depression instead of becoming active. We cannot allow ourselves to fail into despair. We need to keep working and doing what we can in any way we can.
It’s a positive sign that there are Economic Blogs finally getting in there and doing the reporting our Mainstream/Corporate/Lobbyist Controlled Media has become so lax at doing in the past decades. Creating a new movement is important. And, to have business people who aren’t tied into the “US Chamber of Congress” and the Lobbying Groups getting money is a great plus for getting the change we can believe in. Leaving it up to the politicians, at this point, is useless.
And what about getting that Lobbying money out of Campaigns. I’m not one who thinks Lobbyists don’t have a function…but the money donations and the “revolving door” from Congress to K- and Dem Street in election cycles is not serving the “people.” It’s undermining our country and contributing to fraud and abuse by having the Lobbyists writing the very legislations which gives them perks and loopholes to get the country into trouble time after time.
A cleaner system serves everyone, eventually. That’s what we need to work for …the good of all collectively. Not the good of the top 1% and just below to buy many McMansions, and New and Fancier Toys. How much does one need to live a great life off what you’ve achieved…that doesn’t somehow become so excelssive that it underminds the joy when you start depriving the lesser of your employees and the rest of folks trying to just earn a living and provide the basics with lots of college loans or just sweat of their brow and brawn and some good horse sense intelligence? And then there’s the least of us that need to be provided for and not shuffled off into prisons or living on the streets.
October 17th, 2009 at 10:25 pm
It’s hard to see how the recession is over when federal tax receipts in September were 20% below 2008:
http://www.mybudget360.com/government-tax-receipts-down-20-percent-year-over-year-wall-street-banks-earning-billions-the-unsustainable-economic-course/ And state receipts seem to be following a similar path:
http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2009/10/state-revenue-drops-most-since-1963.html
In the second quarter national sales tax receipts were 9.5% below 2008. That would indicate to me that consumption was 9.5% below last year! Maybe those upward slopes in the graphs you presented reflect “less bad” conditions. They clearly don’t represent improvements over prior peaks!
October 17th, 2009 at 10:27 pm
[...] The Big Picture – Wise Words From Economists? [...]
October 17th, 2009 at 11:45 pm
Whoa! What country are we talking about here? “The good of all collectively?” and “How much does one need to live a great life off what you’ve achieved”? I suppose you’re going to be the one to determine “how much one needs”? Give me a break. If you want to live in a cracker box and hope to be in the half of the population that doesn’t need to work for a living, MOVE TO FRANCE! For heaven’s sake. This is the UNITED STATES of AMERICA! Land of the free – home of the brave and all that.
flipspiceland pretty much has it right. Although the real issue has little to do with dems or reps. (I spit on the GOP too). Almost every one of them is a corrupt scumbag. No matter what they say or do, their only goal is to achieve more power and money. Nothing more. I know it’s impossible to believe that people could get that corrupt but take a look around this site. All of the scumbags on Wall Street and in Congress that brought our financial system to its knees are still in power and making even more money at taxpayers expense. Do you think that happened out of stupidity or ignorance or accident? Although I don’t believe in a massive conspiracy, the process does feed itself. Former GS guys bailing out GS – and the world doesn’t see anything fishy there. Geez!
For capitalism to work, the screw-ups have to pay the price when they screw up. That means when GS might go under because AIG can’t pay the bills for GS’ indefensible risks – TOUGH! The gov’t can still “save the day” – just not with same guys that got us here. How hard is that?
Since solving the problem isn’t the goal – only saving the people that caused the problem – we have what we have today. This is not a failing of capitalism and its not going to be solved with socialism or “collectivism”. Those systems have lead to the very corruption we have today. The “Elites” decide “how much we need” while they get to look out over the huddled masses and enjoy anything they could ever possibly want on the backs of the masses.
It has happened over and over and over again. They always think that THIS TIME they’ll be smart enough to do it “right”. Unfortunately, it always ends the same – tyranny and death to those that desire to be free.
I’ll decide how much I need, thank you. You’ve got a whole wide world out there that believes in these systems. Be careful, though. They might not let you leave. Meanwhile, the best and brightest want to come here.
October 18th, 2009 at 1:21 am
“Nothing will change unless we realize that it is not the democrats versus the republicans, but the democrats and the republicans versus us!” unknown poster on another blog.
I wanted to respond to a couple of posts here, but I remembered the above quote. The powers that be have us at each others throats in a right vs. left debate while they take millions in contributions from their buddies on Wall Street and then turn around and give Wall Street billions. This ends up costing TRILLIONS and leaves our children with NOTHING!
October 18th, 2009 at 2:12 am
Ted Turner on the fallout: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=afyLWnoS2WlA
Turner said he has learned to live with less, yet he still bemoans the decline in his net worth.
“To drop out of that league[the elite top of the fortune 400], that was hard to do,” Turner said. “I’ve had the experience of being on top and riding the roller coaster down again, nearly to the bottom. You know, if you economize and don’t buy new airplanes or long-range jets, or that sort of thing, you can get by on a billion or two.”
October 18th, 2009 at 6:44 am
@MA
Within the confined of rationality, all the voters were presented with the two alternatives and TheBamster won by a slim electoral margin. All that tells us is that our forcee choices were between
a borderline senile republican, and man with a remarkably negative public relations fiasco of a last name.
Remove the black vote, which voted 95% for The Bamster because he is ‘not bush’ and tell me again how rational it was to vote for him. No one rationally garners 95% of a constituency unless there is pure bias in the decision. While you’re at it, remove the voters like myself who abstained because of the betrayal of the republicans in name only for over 14 years and tell me how rationality prevailed.
Obama won for only one emotional ‘reason’: he was NOT that addlebrained, incoherent, marionette, an inarticulate douchebag, and not by that many electoral votes that disaster of an administration bush presented us with for 8 years and 5 generations of debt laden depression to work our way out of while he retires to a life of luxury, privilege and nearly unanimous disdain, international embarrassment and ignominy.
I may not have been clear about the left. The left is responsible for so much more that is wrong with our country and the world, than there is space here to list. Suffice it to say that the coarsening of our culture, legitimizing the murder of babies in the womb (not that I have horse in this race–especially when we see how so many children, particularly black children, are turning out so badly, providing billions of dollars of construction and tens of thousands of jobs for prisons—it is likely a net good to society even though reprehensibly immoral) drowning us in sex, drugs, and the likes of Barney Frank
bankrupting the entire world to give poor people $500,000 houses—–I could go on but what’s the point?
The right, or what passes for the right, has been complicit in these debacles by not doing what the right had done in the past: opposing the left with some serious attitude. I don’t mean to say the right is the answer either.
to paraphrase skysurfer above:
“Nothing will change unless we realize that it is not the democrats versus the republicans, but the democrats and the republicans versus SOME of us who truly see that progress has not been accomplished by left or the right.!”
Health care reform will be another nail in our collective coffin, to appease without progress.
October 18th, 2009 at 8:22 am
flipspiceland said,
“The left is responsible for so much more that is wrong with our country and the world, than there is space here to list…. drowning us in sex, drugs, and the likes of Barney Frank bankrupting the entire world to give poor people $500,000 houses—–I could go on but what’s the point?”
You are right that there is no point – bigots have no point.
October 18th, 2009 at 9:16 am
Winnie,
fsl, above, may have been impolitic, though, is he, really, a bigot?
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/bigot
“…and is intolerant of those who differ.”
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/impolitic
“Not wise or expedient; not politic: an impolitic approach to a sensitive issue.”
~~
further, from skysurfer, above: “The powers that be have us at each others throats in a right vs. left debate while they take millions in contributions from their buddies on Wall Street and then turn around and give Wall Street billions. This ends up costing …”
“Divide and conquer refers to the common strategy of seeking to cultivate neutrality or support from those considered ‘moderates’ as a way of undermining and marginilising those deemed the ‘radicals’”
and it’s reverse http://www.wepin.com/articles/afp/afp06.html
October 18th, 2009 at 9:23 am
[...] Roundup of economists’ quotes from the Buttonwood Conference. (TBP) [...]
October 18th, 2009 at 5:14 pm
Winnie,
for a more politic spin of fsl’s musings, see: “Partisan Politics—A Fool’s Game for the Masses
By Robert Higgs on Oct 12, 2009 in Uncategorized
Because I despise politics in general, and the two major parties in this country in particular, I go through life constantly bemused by all the weight that people put on partisan political loyalties and on adherence to the normative demarcations the parties promote. Henry Adams observed that “politics, as a practice, whatever its professions, has always been the systematic organization of hatreds.” This marshalling of hatreds is not the whole of politics, to be sure, but it is an essential element. Thus, Democrats encourage people to hate big corporations, and Republicans encourage people to hate welfare recipients.
Of course, it’s all a fraud, designed to distract people from the overriding reality of political life, which is that the state and its principal supporters are constantly screwing the rest of us, regardless of which party happens to control the presidency and the Congress. Amid all the partisan sound and fury, hardly anybody notices that political reality boils down to two “parties”: (1) those who, in one way or another, use state power to bully and live at the expense of others; and (2) those unfortunate others.
Even when politics seems to involve life-and-death issues, the partisan divisions often only obscure the overriding political realities. So, Democrats say that anti-abortion Republicans, who claim to have such tremendous concern for saving the lives of the unborn, have no interest whatever in saving the lives of those already born, such as the poor children living in the ghetto. And Republicans say that Democrats, who claim to have such tremendous concern for the poor, systematically contribute to the perpetuation of poverty by the countless taxes and regulations they load onto business owners who would otherwise be in better position to hire and train the poor and thereby to hasten their escape from poverty…”
http://www.independent.org/blog/?p=3596
October 18th, 2009 at 5:43 pm
@winston
You ought to know.