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	<title>Comments on: State &amp; Local Taxes Plummet</title>
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	<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/11/state-local-taxes-plummet/</link>
	<description>Macro Perspective on the Capital Markets, Economy, Geopolitics, Technology, and Digital Media</description>
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		<title>By: Barry Ritholtz</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/11/state-local-taxes-plummet/comment-page-1/#comment-234248</link>
		<dc:creator>Barry Ritholtz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Nov 2009 11:03:50 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Beyond California: States in Fiscal Peril  
http://www.stateline.org/live/details/story?contentId=436547</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Beyond California: States in Fiscal Peril<br />
<a href="http://www.stateline.org/live/details/story?contentId=436547" rel="nofollow">http://www.stateline.org/live/details/story?contentId=436547</a></p>
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		<title>By: gab</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/11/state-local-taxes-plummet/comment-page-1/#comment-233690</link>
		<dc:creator>gab</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 23:55:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=43378#comment-233690</guid>
		<description>I made this comment in a post above, but I&#039;ll repeat it here.  Calif just reported a 7.1% increase in personal and corp income tax in October.  This is before the 10% increase in withholding that went into effect in November.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I made this comment in a post above, but I&#8217;ll repeat it here.  Calif just reported a 7.1% increase in personal and corp income tax in October.  This is before the 10% increase in withholding that went into effect in November.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Murphy</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/11/state-local-taxes-plummet/comment-page-1/#comment-233664</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Murphy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 22:21:47 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>The US has low rates across the board compared with Europe . . . My dividends in Dublin are taxed at a 55% rate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The US has low rates across the board compared with Europe . . . My dividends in Dublin are taxed at a 55% rate.</p>
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		<title>By: batmando</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/11/state-local-taxes-plummet/comment-page-1/#comment-233593</link>
		<dc:creator>batmando</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 18:19:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=43378#comment-233593</guid>
		<description>@ Jefff
&quot;Rental supply is increasing, while homes for sale are decreasing. Eventually a decrease in rental prices should suck housing prices down again&quot;
pretty much my thoughts. increasing downward pressure on home prices, as long-term holders of residential investment properties see declining ROI/ROA and seek to re-deploy capital (for which, i&#039;m real short of ideas ;^)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Jefff<br />
&#8220;Rental supply is increasing, while homes for sale are decreasing. Eventually a decrease in rental prices should suck housing prices down again&#8221;<br />
pretty much my thoughts. increasing downward pressure on home prices, as long-term holders of residential investment properties see declining ROI/ROA and seek to re-deploy capital (for which, i&#8217;m real short of ideas ;^)</p>
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		<title>By: Mannwich</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/11/state-local-taxes-plummet/comment-page-1/#comment-233570</link>
		<dc:creator>Mannwich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 16:24:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=43378#comment-233570</guid>
		<description>@batmando:  I highly doubt it, not with all of the rental supply out there.  Rental supply is increasing, while homes for sale are decreasing.  Eventually a decrease in rental prices should suck housing prices down again.  Key word being &quot;should&quot;, but it could take some time for this to happen, as we know.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@batmando:  I highly doubt it, not with all of the rental supply out there.  Rental supply is increasing, while homes for sale are decreasing.  Eventually a decrease in rental prices should suck housing prices down again.  Key word being &#8220;should&#8221;, but it could take some time for this to happen, as we know.</p>
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		<title>By: AS</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/11/state-local-taxes-plummet/comment-page-1/#comment-233569</link>
		<dc:creator>AS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 16:18:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=43378#comment-233569</guid>
		<description>Mannwich, thanks, very interesting.

Let me just ask a few Q&#039;s that pop to mind when I read Nathan Lewis&#039;s list: 
1. In 1992, the tax rate on short-term capital gains (under 2 years) on property was raised to 90%. 
MY Q: why should real estate get preferential treatment when sold? This kind of tax would stop flippers 
dead in the tracks. Good, I say.

2. Long-term gains were taxed at 60%. 
MY COMMENT: see 1 above.

3.  A 0.3% National property tax was introduced (this was several multiples greater than existing property taxes).
MY Q:  Annually? COMMENT: NJ residents like myself would not mind 0.3%....

4.  A City Planning Tax of 0.3%.  
MY COmment: I do not know how high city planning taxes are in various states.  Maybe a builder can fill me in).   I&#039;ve heard it is not cheap to get all permits across the spectrum. 

5. A Registration and License Tax of 5% of the sale value of a property. 
My Q; One time fee, okay, it is high.  Guess home owners will think twice before moving. Flippers need not apply.

6.  A Real Estate Acquisition Tax of 4%. 
Again, one time fee and high imho.

7. An Office Tax of 0.25%.
Nickel-and-diming folks, there as here.

8. A Land Ownership Tax of 1.4%. 
Q: One time?

At the end of the list, this:
 9.  Even the regular property tax, the Fixed Assets Tax, was effectively raised by several multiples. 
Ok, if we are talking PROPERTY TAX we should compare regular US  property tax with the Japanese equivalent.

My point basically is: property tax is insidious and though some cannot be avoided for the public services rendered, paying let&#039;s say 2% PER YEAR based on assessed value in states like NJ is a terrific burden on home owners.  Looking at public records in my small community in central NJ, I see that 
your average, 60+ year old little brick house went from assessed value in yr 2000 of $ 165 000 to assessed value of $ 367 000 in 2007, last public record I can easily find.  Annual property tax went from 3.1 % of a.v.  ( appr $ 5100) to approx. 2% ($ 7700)  of a.v.   I can hear municipalities saying &quot; but we are lowering taxes&quot;.....you know the spiel.  The taxes are the straw that breaks the camel&#039;s back of under water buyers....

I say let&#039;s revamp the way schools get their funding, and let&#039;s do away with  all the  home ownership tax breaks (from deductibility to cap gains), and let&#039;s stop throwing good money after bad in form of $8000 buyer&#039;s credits so prices can find their own equilibrium.

Ahhh....... hope over experience.... ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mannwich, thanks, very interesting.</p>
<p>Let me just ask a few Q&#8217;s that pop to mind when I read Nathan Lewis&#8217;s list:<br />
1. In 1992, the tax rate on short-term capital gains (under 2 years) on property was raised to 90%.<br />
MY Q: why should real estate get preferential treatment when sold? This kind of tax would stop flippers<br />
dead in the tracks. Good, I say.</p>
<p>2. Long-term gains were taxed at 60%.<br />
MY COMMENT: see 1 above.</p>
<p>3.  A 0.3% National property tax was introduced (this was several multiples greater than existing property taxes).<br />
MY Q:  Annually? COMMENT: NJ residents like myself would not mind 0.3%&#8230;.</p>
<p>4.  A City Planning Tax of 0.3%.<br />
MY COmment: I do not know how high city planning taxes are in various states.  Maybe a builder can fill me in).   I&#8217;ve heard it is not cheap to get all permits across the spectrum. </p>
<p>5. A Registration and License Tax of 5% of the sale value of a property.<br />
My Q; One time fee, okay, it is high.  Guess home owners will think twice before moving. Flippers need not apply.</p>
<p>6.  A Real Estate Acquisition Tax of 4%.<br />
Again, one time fee and high imho.</p>
<p>7. An Office Tax of 0.25%.<br />
Nickel-and-diming folks, there as here.</p>
<p>8. A Land Ownership Tax of 1.4%.<br />
Q: One time?</p>
<p>At the end of the list, this:<br />
 9.  Even the regular property tax, the Fixed Assets Tax, was effectively raised by several multiples.<br />
Ok, if we are talking PROPERTY TAX we should compare regular US  property tax with the Japanese equivalent.</p>
<p>My point basically is: property tax is insidious and though some cannot be avoided for the public services rendered, paying let&#8217;s say 2% PER YEAR based on assessed value in states like NJ is a terrific burden on home owners.  Looking at public records in my small community in central NJ, I see that<br />
your average, 60+ year old little brick house went from assessed value in yr 2000 of $ 165 000 to assessed value of $ 367 000 in 2007, last public record I can easily find.  Annual property tax went from 3.1 % of a.v.  ( appr $ 5100) to approx. 2% ($ 7700)  of a.v.   I can hear municipalities saying &#8221; but we are lowering taxes&#8221;&#8230;..you know the spiel.  The taxes are the straw that breaks the camel&#8217;s back of under water buyers&#8230;.</p>
<p>I say let&#8217;s revamp the way schools get their funding, and let&#8217;s do away with  all the  home ownership tax breaks (from deductibility to cap gains), and let&#8217;s stop throwing good money after bad in form of $8000 buyer&#8217;s credits so prices can find their own equilibrium.</p>
<p>Ahhh&#8230;&#8230;. hope over experience&#8230;. ;-)</p>
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		<title>By: batmando</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/11/state-local-taxes-plummet/comment-page-1/#comment-233567</link>
		<dc:creator>batmando</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 16:13:28 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>@ tawm at 9:57 am 
&quot;Good time to be a renter.&quot;
Question is, will landlords be able to pass along increased taxes to tenants?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ tawm at 9:57 am<br />
&#8220;Good time to be a renter.&#8221;<br />
Question is, will landlords be able to pass along increased taxes to tenants?</p>
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		<title>By: Mannwich</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/11/state-local-taxes-plummet/comment-page-1/#comment-233566</link>
		<dc:creator>Mannwich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 16:09:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=43378#comment-233566</guid>
		<description>@Transor:  I agree, but we&#039;re seeing our property taxes increase quite a bit every year, regardless of home valuations.  To me, the property tax is the last &quot;golden goose&quot; they haven&#039;t killed, beaten to a pulp, and picked clean, but they will in time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Transor:  I agree, but we&#8217;re seeing our property taxes increase quite a bit every year, regardless of home valuations.  To me, the property tax is the last &#8220;golden goose&#8221; they haven&#8217;t killed, beaten to a pulp, and picked clean, but they will in time.</p>
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		<title>By: Transor Z</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/11/state-local-taxes-plummet/comment-page-1/#comment-233562</link>
		<dc:creator>Transor Z</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 15:57:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=43378#comment-233562</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t think things will play out the same way here in the US as they did in Japan in the 90s. Government seems to be trying to boost RE prices/values, not puncture the bubble. I actually think what&#039;s going on right now is more subtle in some ways. 

Suburban school districts are having budget problems, resulting in larger class sizes and reductions in staff/services.  Here in Mass. we have statewide standardized tests called MCAS that are published annually and school districts are ranked by performance. For family buyers in the lower home sales bracket -- the only things moving right now -- this makes certain communities less attractive.  This creates a feedback loop that will further depress home prices in suburban communities whose schools are struggling. 

There are not many home sales in affluent communities, not many foreclosures.  But outside of places like Hingham, Newton, Brookline, Milton and Westwood, it will be interesting to see how this impacts working-class towns over the next few years.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think things will play out the same way here in the US as they did in Japan in the 90s. Government seems to be trying to boost RE prices/values, not puncture the bubble. I actually think what&#8217;s going on right now is more subtle in some ways. </p>
<p>Suburban school districts are having budget problems, resulting in larger class sizes and reductions in staff/services.  Here in Mass. we have statewide standardized tests called MCAS that are published annually and school districts are ranked by performance. For family buyers in the lower home sales bracket &#8212; the only things moving right now &#8212; this makes certain communities less attractive.  This creates a feedback loop that will further depress home prices in suburban communities whose schools are struggling. </p>
<p>There are not many home sales in affluent communities, not many foreclosures.  But outside of places like Hingham, Newton, Brookline, Milton and Westwood, it will be interesting to see how this impacts working-class towns over the next few years.</p>
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		<title>By: Bruce in Tn</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/11/state-local-taxes-plummet/comment-page-1/#comment-233556</link>
		<dc:creator>Bruce in Tn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 15:41:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=43378#comment-233556</guid>
		<description>Thanks Tranzor Z...about as I would have imagined...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Tranzor Z&#8230;about as I would have imagined&#8230;</p>
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