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	<title>Comments on: Geithner: TARP to End Soon</title>
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	<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/12/geithner-tarp-to-end-soon/</link>
	<description>Macro Perspective on the Capital Markets, Economy, Geopolitics, Technology, and Digital Media</description>
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		<title>By: DeDude</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/12/geithner-tarp-to-end-soon/comment-page-1/#comment-239168</link>
		<dc:creator>DeDude</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Dec 2009 21:26:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=45229#comment-239168</guid>
		<description>investorinpa

When senior management has the choice between screwing themselves by remaining under bonus and salary restrictions, or screwing the shareholders by risking and/or diluting their equutiy - it’s a no brainer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>investorinpa</p>
<p>When senior management has the choice between screwing themselves by remaining under bonus and salary restrictions, or screwing the shareholders by risking and/or diluting their equutiy &#8211; it’s a no brainer.</p>
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		<title>By: Market Talk &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Links 12/3/2009</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/12/geithner-tarp-to-end-soon/comment-page-1/#comment-239146</link>
		<dc:creator>Market Talk &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Links 12/3/2009</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Dec 2009 20:11:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=45229#comment-239146</guid>
		<description>[...] TARP&#8217;s moral hazard not going away anytime [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] TARP&#8217;s moral hazard not going away anytime [...]</p>
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		<title>By: deanscamaro</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/12/geithner-tarp-to-end-soon/comment-page-1/#comment-239125</link>
		<dc:creator>deanscamaro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Dec 2009 18:46:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=45229#comment-239125</guid>
		<description>@ investorinpa
Its magic or just the luck of good timing, isn&#039;t it?  Just at the time when they need to pay through the nose to get a new CEO, B of A reachs the point of being able to pay back the taxpayers and get out from under compensation restrictions.  Without needing a new CEO, TARP repayment wouldn&#039;t have even gotten a second thought.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ investorinpa<br />
Its magic or just the luck of good timing, isn&#8217;t it?  Just at the time when they need to pay through the nose to get a new CEO, B of A reachs the point of being able to pay back the taxpayers and get out from under compensation restrictions.  Without needing a new CEO, TARP repayment wouldn&#8217;t have even gotten a second thought.</p>
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		<title>By: DeDude</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/12/geithner-tarp-to-end-soon/comment-page-1/#comment-239113</link>
		<dc:creator>DeDude</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Dec 2009 17:48:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=45229#comment-239113</guid>
		<description>It’s fine to save the company, but it has to be done the right way - and we need clear legislation to say exactly how such a company will be “saved” in the future.  Anybody making more than 800K/year (total compensation) should be fired and have a 3 year clawback of any and all compensation in excess of 200K/year.  Shareholders should be wiped out 100% and bonds all converted to shares in the “new” company.  The governments “bailout” investment should be carrying an interest of inflation +5%, and after 2 years be convertible to stocks (at the lowest market price recorded 3-6 month after the bailout.  If the company pays back the money before the 2 years that’s fine, if not “we the people” have a business decision to make.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It’s fine to save the company, but it has to be done the right way &#8211; and we need clear legislation to say exactly how such a company will be “saved” in the future.  Anybody making more than 800K/year (total compensation) should be fired and have a 3 year clawback of any and all compensation in excess of 200K/year.  Shareholders should be wiped out 100% and bonds all converted to shares in the “new” company.  The governments “bailout” investment should be carrying an interest of inflation +5%, and after 2 years be convertible to stocks (at the lowest market price recorded 3-6 month after the bailout.  If the company pays back the money before the 2 years that’s fine, if not “we the people” have a business decision to make.</p>
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		<title>By: ZedLoch</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/12/geithner-tarp-to-end-soon/comment-page-1/#comment-239095</link>
		<dc:creator>ZedLoch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Dec 2009 16:29:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=45229#comment-239095</guid>
		<description>I loved the page break!

&quot;The US is going down in a boat ON FIRE with bailouts, moral hazards, debt, corporate socialism! AHHH-meanwhile in the EU...&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I loved the page break!</p>
<p>&#8220;The US is going down in a boat ON FIRE with bailouts, moral hazards, debt, corporate socialism! AHHH-meanwhile in the EU&#8230;&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: hue</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/12/geithner-tarp-to-end-soon/comment-page-1/#comment-239094</link>
		<dc:creator>hue</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Dec 2009 16:24:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=45229#comment-239094</guid>
		<description>BofbailoutA and tarp: &quot; Mitsubishi UFJ (MTU) is also placing $12 billion in additional common stock, the biggest share sale by a Japanese financial institution ever. (And in that regard, I wouldn&#039;t view the Nikkei&#039;s 10% rally over the past five business days as just pure coincidence. Check out the US markets leading up to and following May 6, when the stress-test results were announced and banks first issued stock).&quot; http://bit.ly/7i4jaw</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BofbailoutA and tarp: &#8221; Mitsubishi UFJ (MTU) is also placing $12 billion in additional common stock, the biggest share sale by a Japanese financial institution ever. (And in that regard, I wouldn&#8217;t view the Nikkei&#8217;s 10% rally over the past five business days as just pure coincidence. Check out the US markets leading up to and following May 6, when the stress-test results were announced and banks first issued stock).&#8221; <a href="http://bit.ly/7i4jaw" rel="nofollow">http://bit.ly/7i4jaw</a></p>
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		<title>By: ottnott</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/12/geithner-tarp-to-end-soon/comment-page-1/#comment-239084</link>
		<dc:creator>ottnott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Dec 2009 15:51:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=45229#comment-239084</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Don’t just mess up, bankers learned . . . but make sure your cock ups are so enormous as to threaten the entire economic system.&lt;/i&gt;

That was only half of the lesson. The other half (see AIG) is to make your big mess so complex and opaque that they have to keep the perpetrators around to unwind it.

And, of course, &quot;unwinding&quot; means to bundle up the few valuable assets and sell them at a bargain price to the investment firm you will be working for 6 months down the road.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Don’t just mess up, bankers learned . . . but make sure your cock ups are so enormous as to threaten the entire economic system.</i></p>
<p>That was only half of the lesson. The other half (see AIG) is to make your big mess so complex and opaque that they have to keep the perpetrators around to unwind it.</p>
<p>And, of course, &#8220;unwinding&#8221; means to bundle up the few valuable assets and sell them at a bargain price to the investment firm you will be working for 6 months down the road.</p>
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		<title>By: Adult Franklin411</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/12/geithner-tarp-to-end-soon/comment-page-1/#comment-239068</link>
		<dc:creator>Adult Franklin411</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Dec 2009 15:17:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=45229#comment-239068</guid>
		<description>ZH posted this earlier: http://www.zerohedge.com/article/four-scenarios-2010

Deutsche Bank&#039;s four world economic scenarios for 2010. This is #4, which they assign a 10% probability to:
&lt;i&gt;This is the nightmare scenario of Deflation or in less extreme terms perhaps a double-dip. Given that much of the world is currently still in negative YoY inflation territory it is difficult to completely rule out even if we do live in a fiat currency system and even if inflation is expected to return to positive territory in early 2010. For deflation to be sustained we would probably need an exogenous event to hamper the authorities ability to continue to successfully fight this credit crisis. Such events could be a fresh banking crisis arising, &lt;b&gt;a political backlash encouraging immediate increases in economic regulation or withdrawal of stimulus&lt;/b&gt;, or possibly a Government bond/currency sell-off that forces the authorities to aggressively reign in stimulus for fear of a sovereign crisis. A Sovereign crisis outside the Developed world could also encourage this scenario as there would be a flight to quality into Developed market bond market in spite of the fact that these markets have their own large fiscal issues. Bond yields would eventually rally strongly but risk assets would experience a very poor year. As time progresses this scenario becomes less likely as the system gradually repairs itself and the authorities are allowed more time to inflate the global economy. As we discuss in scenario 3, the more likely risk scenario is inflation, especially as time progresses.&lt;/i&gt;

The part I put in bold worries me. This is where sovereigns are most likely to lie to people with more green shoots nonsense and baked economic stats because they &quot;know better&quot; than the citizens.  Regulation and reducing stimulus would strangle global growth, so the bankers&#039; party line goes. 

Bad craziness, folks. Bad craziness.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ZH posted this earlier: <a href="http://www.zerohedge.com/article/four-scenarios-2010" rel="nofollow">http://www.zerohedge.com/article/four-scenarios-2010</a></p>
<p>Deutsche Bank&#8217;s four world economic scenarios for 2010. This is #4, which they assign a 10% probability to:<br />
<i>This is the nightmare scenario of Deflation or in less extreme terms perhaps a double-dip. Given that much of the world is currently still in negative YoY inflation territory it is difficult to completely rule out even if we do live in a fiat currency system and even if inflation is expected to return to positive territory in early 2010. For deflation to be sustained we would probably need an exogenous event to hamper the authorities ability to continue to successfully fight this credit crisis. Such events could be a fresh banking crisis arising, <b>a political backlash encouraging immediate increases in economic regulation or withdrawal of stimulus</b>, or possibly a Government bond/currency sell-off that forces the authorities to aggressively reign in stimulus for fear of a sovereign crisis. A Sovereign crisis outside the Developed world could also encourage this scenario as there would be a flight to quality into Developed market bond market in spite of the fact that these markets have their own large fiscal issues. Bond yields would eventually rally strongly but risk assets would experience a very poor year. As time progresses this scenario becomes less likely as the system gradually repairs itself and the authorities are allowed more time to inflate the global economy. As we discuss in scenario 3, the more likely risk scenario is inflation, especially as time progresses.</i></p>
<p>The part I put in bold worries me. This is where sovereigns are most likely to lie to people with more green shoots nonsense and baked economic stats because they &#8220;know better&#8221; than the citizens.  Regulation and reducing stimulus would strangle global growth, so the bankers&#8217; party line goes. </p>
<p>Bad craziness, folks. Bad craziness.</p>
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		<title>By: hue</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/12/geithner-tarp-to-end-soon/comment-page-1/#comment-239061</link>
		<dc:creator>hue</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Dec 2009 14:52:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=45229#comment-239061</guid>
		<description>great recession is over folks, bankofbailoutamerica is paying back tarp.

what happens if the banks come back for more bailout money? the second great recession brought to you by the immoral hazard.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>great recession is over folks, bankofbailoutamerica is paying back tarp.</p>
<p>what happens if the banks come back for more bailout money? the second great recession brought to you by the immoral hazard.</p>
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		<title>By: Transor Z</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/12/geithner-tarp-to-end-soon/comment-page-1/#comment-239047</link>
		<dc:creator>Transor Z</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Dec 2009 14:28:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=45229#comment-239047</guid>
		<description>But I thought TARP was going to yield a modest positive return for US taxpayers. Anybody else remember that line?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But I thought TARP was going to yield a modest positive return for US taxpayers. Anybody else remember that line?</p>
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