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	<title>Comments on: Strategic defaults &#8211; conditioning, morality, or naïveté?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/12/strategic-defaults-is-it-conditioning-morality-or-naivete/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/12/strategic-defaults-is-it-conditioning-morality-or-naivete/</link>
	<description>Macro Perspective on the Capital Markets, Economy, Geopolitics, Technology, and Digital Media</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 15 Feb 2012 00:33:57 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Radio this Weekend &#8211; WNRN Sunday Morning Wakeup &#124; RealCentralVA.com</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/12/strategic-defaults-is-it-conditioning-morality-or-naivete/comment-page-1/#comment-244102</link>
		<dc:creator>Radio this Weekend &#8211; WNRN Sunday Morning Wakeup &#124; RealCentralVA.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Dec 2009 13:43:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=46668#comment-244102</guid>
		<description>[...] Strategic Defaults &#8211; brought on by underwater homeowners &#8211; what will be their impact? [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Strategic Defaults &#8211; brought on by underwater homeowners &#8211; what will be their impact? [...]</p>
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		<title>By: DiggidyDan</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/12/strategic-defaults-is-it-conditioning-morality-or-naivete/comment-page-1/#comment-243276</link>
		<dc:creator>DiggidyDan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Dec 2009 22:31:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=46668#comment-243276</guid>
		<description>wow, everybody take a xanax at once now!  Merry Christmas, and play with your kids (or your family&#039;s kids) fer fux sakes!  There is joy in the world still, even if we all get foreclosed upon.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>wow, everybody take a xanax at once now!  Merry Christmas, and play with your kids (or your family&#8217;s kids) fer fux sakes!  There is joy in the world still, even if we all get foreclosed upon.</p>
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		<title>By: flipspiceland</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/12/strategic-defaults-is-it-conditioning-morality-or-naivete/comment-page-1/#comment-243180</link>
		<dc:creator>flipspiceland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Dec 2009 13:20:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=46668#comment-243180</guid>
		<description>Debt is a symptom.  Symptoms treated can eventually kill you.

The root of the financial meltdown is not debt. It is fare more fundamental than that.  The best example of the fact that debt is not the problem is none other than the ubiquitous vampire octupus, Goldman Sucks&#039; partners (shareholders re not all equal).  

Here&#039;s Lord Blankfein handing out multibillions of dollars in bonuses to himself and his Tribe, while heaven knows how much debt he carries. Here&#039;s my good friend, filing for bankruptcy after amassing millions in debt by not paying his withholding taxes and getting caught by the IRS and given a wrist slap and $158.00 a month payoff for however long it takes to get the government their vastly whittled down 
tax bill. Here&#039;s my tenant making $40,000 a year as a nurse and getting a divorce, and to mollify herself and her kid runs up $60,000 in credit card bills and eventually filing for bankrupcty and leaving me to spend a small fortune evicting her. 

What isn&#039;t said much on MSM about debt is that all unsecured debt  and a lot of secured it now seems is either greatly reduced one way or another, or forgiven and the debtor gets to keep most of the stuff they bought with it, and my good friend after 7 years has managed to do quite well, better than most, with bankruptcy assets in his hideaways.  

NakedHedge has it exactly right:  the moral, ethical, and justice fibers that once were a part of our DNA have somehow become evolutionarily superfluous, like a prehensile tail. 

Two things I would have done had I known how the world really works:  Amass as much debt as possible,
default, enjoy.

NakedHedge +100

BR: -100</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Debt is a symptom.  Symptoms treated can eventually kill you.</p>
<p>The root of the financial meltdown is not debt. It is fare more fundamental than that.  The best example of the fact that debt is not the problem is none other than the ubiquitous vampire octupus, Goldman Sucks&#8217; partners (shareholders re not all equal).  </p>
<p>Here&#8217;s Lord Blankfein handing out multibillions of dollars in bonuses to himself and his Tribe, while heaven knows how much debt he carries. Here&#8217;s my good friend, filing for bankruptcy after amassing millions in debt by not paying his withholding taxes and getting caught by the IRS and given a wrist slap and $158.00 a month payoff for however long it takes to get the government their vastly whittled down<br />
tax bill. Here&#8217;s my tenant making $40,000 a year as a nurse and getting a divorce, and to mollify herself and her kid runs up $60,000 in credit card bills and eventually filing for bankrupcty and leaving me to spend a small fortune evicting her. </p>
<p>What isn&#8217;t said much on MSM about debt is that all unsecured debt  and a lot of secured it now seems is either greatly reduced one way or another, or forgiven and the debtor gets to keep most of the stuff they bought with it, and my good friend after 7 years has managed to do quite well, better than most, with bankruptcy assets in his hideaways.  </p>
<p>NakedHedge has it exactly right:  the moral, ethical, and justice fibers that once were a part of our DNA have somehow become evolutionarily superfluous, like a prehensile tail. </p>
<p>Two things I would have done had I known how the world really works:  Amass as much debt as possible,<br />
default, enjoy.</p>
<p>NakedHedge +100</p>
<p>BR: -100</p>
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		<title>By: Weekend Reading &#124; Naked Hedge Fund</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/12/strategic-defaults-is-it-conditioning-morality-or-naivete/comment-page-1/#comment-243022</link>
		<dc:creator>Weekend Reading &#124; Naked Hedge Fund</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Dec 2009 16:37:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=46668#comment-243022</guid>
		<description>[...] Strategic defaults – conditioning, morality, or naïveté?  &#8211; THE BIG PICTURE [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Strategic defaults – conditioning, morality, or naïveté?  &#8211; THE BIG PICTURE [...]</p>
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		<title>By: NakedHedgeFund</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/12/strategic-defaults-is-it-conditioning-morality-or-naivete/comment-page-1/#comment-243018</link>
		<dc:creator>NakedHedgeFund</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Dec 2009 16:17:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=46668#comment-243018</guid>
		<description>The herd has just begun to realize that this is the &quot;new&quot; thing to do... as in strategic defaults.  Once they start seeing that their neighbor or friend went through it without a problem the numbers will exponentially grow.... Shame, guilt, and anxiety will go out the window just as their moral standards did when they lied about their income.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The herd has just begun to realize that this is the &#8220;new&#8221; thing to do&#8230; as in strategic defaults.  Once they start seeing that their neighbor or friend went through it without a problem the numbers will exponentially grow&#8230;. Shame, guilt, and anxiety will go out the window just as their moral standards did when they lied about their income.</p>
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		<title>By: call me ahab</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/12/strategic-defaults-is-it-conditioning-morality-or-naivete/comment-page-1/#comment-242937</link>
		<dc:creator>call me ahab</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Dec 2009 00:04:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=46668#comment-242937</guid>
		<description>oh by the way-

it was in my original post to you-

&quot;first off- 

you&#039;re a dick . . . and then it went on with my &quot;then secondly&quot;

just wanted to make sure you knew where i was coming from-

not that I give shit-

&lt;i&gt;the bohemian&lt;/i&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>oh by the way-</p>
<p>it was in my original post to you-</p>
<p>&#8220;first off- </p>
<p>you&#8217;re a dick . . . and then it went on with my &#8220;then secondly&#8221;</p>
<p>just wanted to make sure you knew where i was coming from-</p>
<p>not that I give shit-</p>
<p><i>the bohemian</i></p>
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		<title>By: call me ahab</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/12/strategic-defaults-is-it-conditioning-morality-or-naivete/comment-page-1/#comment-242935</link>
		<dc:creator>call me ahab</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Dec 2009 23:56:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=46668#comment-242935</guid>
		<description>jerkface- 

yeah . . .&quot;here&#039;s it all the time&quot;- the problems with posting when you are constructing a few thoughts on a blog w/ no preview-

anyway-  I have posted repeatedly for over a year regarding the same thought- that people can walk away in many cases with the bank taking the collateral- their only option in a non-recourse state- and true- a judge may see things differently in a recourse state- a person would have to weigh their odds and make a decision- but a better chance now then any time before-  that a deficiency judgment would not be handed down by a judge- but- 

anyway- just to be clear- you are a complete douche bag-  but I am sure you are aware of that- and a  bit of little whiny bitch as well- but . . .I&#039;m sure you have heard that too-

so . . .anyway-  bite me-  thanks and farewell

the bohemian</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>jerkface- </p>
<p>yeah . . .&#8221;here&#8217;s it all the time&#8221;- the problems with posting when you are constructing a few thoughts on a blog w/ no preview-</p>
<p>anyway-  I have posted repeatedly for over a year regarding the same thought- that people can walk away in many cases with the bank taking the collateral- their only option in a non-recourse state- and true- a judge may see things differently in a recourse state- a person would have to weigh their odds and make a decision- but a better chance now then any time before-  that a deficiency judgment would not be handed down by a judge- but- </p>
<p>anyway- just to be clear- you are a complete douche bag-  but I am sure you are aware of that- and a  bit of little whiny bitch as well- but . . .I&#8217;m sure you have heard that too-</p>
<p>so . . .anyway-  bite me-  thanks and farewell</p>
<p>the bohemian</p>
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		<title>By: spkelley</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/12/strategic-defaults-is-it-conditioning-morality-or-naivete/comment-page-1/#comment-242931</link>
		<dc:creator>spkelley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Dec 2009 23:35:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=46668#comment-242931</guid>
		<description>Of course, it&#039;s fine if Morgan Stanley defaults, right? http://bit.ly/7froS7</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course, it&#8217;s fine if Morgan Stanley defaults, right? <a href="http://bit.ly/7froS7" rel="nofollow">http://bit.ly/7froS7</a></p>
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		<title>By: jface</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/12/strategic-defaults-is-it-conditioning-morality-or-naivete/comment-page-1/#comment-242926</link>
		<dc:creator>jface</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Dec 2009 23:09:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=46668#comment-242926</guid>
		<description>&quot;jface-
then secondly-
you’re wrong- there are many states that are non-recourse- and even those that are recourse- it would be unlikely that a judge would place a deficiency judgement against the mortgagor in the current environment-

but- think what you want- appears you have everything figured out- at least in your small mind-&quot;


Dude read my first post, I clearly state: &quot;Personal mortgages are generally (with some states and circumstances exempted) full recourse.&quot;  

I&#039;m aware of which states are non recourse and under what terms within those states the non recourse rules apply.  

Where you and I diverge is that I would never presume to know what a judge would or wouldn&#039;t do regarding deficiency judgments, you have declared that a deficiency in the current environment would be &quot;unlikely&quot; and you might be right.  Then again, you are just as likely - if not moreso since the documents directly contradict your opinion - to be wrong.

So you&#039;ll understand that given that fact set, I&#039;m neither insulted nor pleased that your personal insults to me were edited.  I was looking forward to reading them.  I assume they were insults since they started with &quot;at least in your small mind...&quot; 

Speaking of which....it seems to be your lack of reading comprehension that drove you to a website to point out the fact there are non recourse states.  Yes, I&#039;m aware...I accounted for the possibility that some genius would decide to impress us all with his/her knowledge of the non recourse states by addressing it the first paragraph of my first post.  Your intellectual powers are frightening indeed.

BTW, the phrase you are struggling for is &quot;hears it all the time&quot; not &quot;here&#039;s it all the time&quot; and you&#039;re right, I do hear it all the time.  Jface is short for jerkface.  I&#039;m aware that I am jerk.  To me, the dangerous ones are the ones who aren&#039;t aware.

All that said, thanks for the internet link of non recourse states.  That&#039;s some good work right there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;jface-<br />
then secondly-<br />
you’re wrong- there are many states that are non-recourse- and even those that are recourse- it would be unlikely that a judge would place a deficiency judgement against the mortgagor in the current environment-</p>
<p>but- think what you want- appears you have everything figured out- at least in your small mind-&#8221;</p>
<p>Dude read my first post, I clearly state: &#8220;Personal mortgages are generally (with some states and circumstances exempted) full recourse.&#8221;  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m aware of which states are non recourse and under what terms within those states the non recourse rules apply.  </p>
<p>Where you and I diverge is that I would never presume to know what a judge would or wouldn&#8217;t do regarding deficiency judgments, you have declared that a deficiency in the current environment would be &#8220;unlikely&#8221; and you might be right.  Then again, you are just as likely &#8211; if not moreso since the documents directly contradict your opinion &#8211; to be wrong.</p>
<p>So you&#8217;ll understand that given that fact set, I&#8217;m neither insulted nor pleased that your personal insults to me were edited.  I was looking forward to reading them.  I assume they were insults since they started with &#8220;at least in your small mind&#8230;&#8221; </p>
<p>Speaking of which&#8230;.it seems to be your lack of reading comprehension that drove you to a website to point out the fact there are non recourse states.  Yes, I&#8217;m aware&#8230;I accounted for the possibility that some genius would decide to impress us all with his/her knowledge of the non recourse states by addressing it the first paragraph of my first post.  Your intellectual powers are frightening indeed.</p>
<p>BTW, the phrase you are struggling for is &#8220;hears it all the time&#8221; not &#8220;here&#8217;s it all the time&#8221; and you&#8217;re right, I do hear it all the time.  Jface is short for jerkface.  I&#8217;m aware that I am jerk.  To me, the dangerous ones are the ones who aren&#8217;t aware.</p>
<p>All that said, thanks for the internet link of non recourse states.  That&#8217;s some good work right there.</p>
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		<title>By: the bohemian</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/12/strategic-defaults-is-it-conditioning-morality-or-naivete/comment-page-1/#comment-242921</link>
		<dc:creator>the bohemian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Dec 2009 22:43:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=46668#comment-242921</guid>
		<description>I absolutely and postively protest that my 4:23 comment was edited-

post the original post BR-

I am sure Jface here&#039;s it all the time</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I absolutely and postively protest that my 4:23 comment was edited-</p>
<p>post the original post BR-</p>
<p>I am sure Jface here&#8217;s it all the time</p>
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