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	<title>Comments on: End of the Bond Secular Bull Market?</title>
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	<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2010/02/end-of-the-bond-secular-bull-market/</link>
	<description>Macro Perspective on the Capital Markets, Economy, Geopolitics, Technology, and Digital Media</description>
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		<title>By: FT Alphaville &#187; Further reading</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2010/02/end-of-the-bond-secular-bull-market/comment-page-1/#comment-254024</link>
		<dc:creator>FT Alphaville &#187; Further reading</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Feb 2010 08:01:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=51160#comment-254024</guid>
		<description>[...] - End of the bond secular bull market? [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] &#8211; End of the bond secular bull market? [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Rustywix</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2010/02/end-of-the-bond-secular-bull-market/comment-page-1/#comment-254020</link>
		<dc:creator>Rustywix</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Feb 2010 06:47:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=51160#comment-254020</guid>
		<description>mguerreiro...My guess is General Electric. And, you are dead on with this. They are in big time trouble.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>mguerreiro&#8230;My guess is General Electric. And, you are dead on with this. They are in big time trouble.</p>
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		<title>By: Silver Dollar Coins</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2010/02/end-of-the-bond-secular-bull-market/comment-page-1/#comment-253818</link>
		<dc:creator>Silver Dollar Coins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 14:56:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=51160#comment-253818</guid>
		<description>I think there is a lot of truth in this.  The bull market may indeed by over.  One thing I believe for certain that atleast in the short term, interest rates are headed up, and for a long time too...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think there is a lot of truth in this.  The bull market may indeed by over.  One thing I believe for certain that atleast in the short term, interest rates are headed up, and for a long time too&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: OnlineBrokerReview</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2010/02/end-of-the-bond-secular-bull-market/comment-page-1/#comment-253772</link>
		<dc:creator>OnlineBrokerReview</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 04:32:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=51160#comment-253772</guid>
		<description>&quot;This has been the most pre-announced bear market in history. Good luck with that.&quot;

Just because something is obvious doesn&#039;t make it wrong.  See: housing bubble.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;This has been the most pre-announced bear market in history. Good luck with that.&#8221;</p>
<p>Just because something is obvious doesn&#8217;t make it wrong.  See: housing bubble.</p>
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		<title>By: Mr.E.</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2010/02/end-of-the-bond-secular-bull-market/comment-page-1/#comment-253739</link>
		<dc:creator>Mr.E.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Feb 2010 23:32:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=51160#comment-253739</guid>
		<description>Bonds (market determined interest rates) run in a cycle of ~ 60 yrs duration -- 30 up, 30 down.  We&#039;ve enjoyed the 30 run on falling interest rates, so it is about time for the turn and a 30 year run of increasing rates.  Presently, by historical norms, yields on government treasuries are low due to (1.) monetary policy, and (2.) fear of anything else.  Fundamentals that consider long-term government borrowing and the real possibility that monetary policy will turn from massive liquidity stimulation to trying to drain the swamp and keep inflation under control also suggest the turn is near.  Crowded trade?  Not hardly, at least yet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bonds (market determined interest rates) run in a cycle of ~ 60 yrs duration &#8212; 30 up, 30 down.  We&#8217;ve enjoyed the 30 run on falling interest rates, so it is about time for the turn and a 30 year run of increasing rates.  Presently, by historical norms, yields on government treasuries are low due to (1.) monetary policy, and (2.) fear of anything else.  Fundamentals that consider long-term government borrowing and the real possibility that monetary policy will turn from massive liquidity stimulation to trying to drain the swamp and keep inflation under control also suggest the turn is near.  Crowded trade?  Not hardly, at least yet.</p>
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		<title>By: mguerreiro</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2010/02/end-of-the-bond-secular-bull-market/comment-page-1/#comment-253737</link>
		<dc:creator>mguerreiro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Feb 2010 23:19:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=51160#comment-253737</guid>
		<description>When you see a Train with Dynamite apporaching, do you wait until the last second before getting out of the way? Faber might have been a bit early for a while, but with the government spending at this rate, it wont take too long for the US to get into a debt crisis. 2-3 years, in 2011, the Debt/GDP already reaches 95% with the current estimates, which are always understated... 

True though, others are even further ahead, and the US has the special historical too big to fail and massive confidence shield built up over years, but eventually the domino starts falling. And if X was also A or AAA, or AA and starts falling, maybe the US AAA is not so good after all..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When you see a Train with Dynamite apporaching, do you wait until the last second before getting out of the way? Faber might have been a bit early for a while, but with the government spending at this rate, it wont take too long for the US to get into a debt crisis. 2-3 years, in 2011, the Debt/GDP already reaches 95% with the current estimates, which are always understated&#8230; </p>
<p>True though, others are even further ahead, and the US has the special historical too big to fail and massive confidence shield built up over years, but eventually the domino starts falling. And if X was also A or AAA, or AA and starts falling, maybe the US AAA is not so good after all..</p>
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		<title>By: Simon</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2010/02/end-of-the-bond-secular-bull-market/comment-page-1/#comment-253736</link>
		<dc:creator>Simon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Feb 2010 23:12:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=51160#comment-253736</guid>
		<description>Finance is so weird. The massive imbalances are obvious to everyone and yet there is huge debate about how they will resolve.

I will try to give my 2 cents worth.

The root cause of the problem are the huge foreign reserves built up by over productive undervalued currencies, and for arguments sake I will lump China and Japan together in this even though their bubbles have occurred many years apart. Both China and Japan have beaten American manurfactures successively on the head. What has kept the American economy going is the steadily lowering of interest rates which I think somehow replaces labor with capital although I don&#039;t understand this. Anyway what is easily understood is that GDP and employment have been kept up in America by using other peoples money (Japan and China) to consume and build. This was enabled by lowering interest rates and facilitated by the creditor nations through their willingness to lend at those rates.

Now it looks like this process is coming to an end and I think that we should not look to the past twenty years as a guide to what will happen now because there are too many differences. Globalization is now pretty mature. Accordingly and to make my argument as simple as possible the world should be considered as a single economic unit and now I&#039;m heading in the direction of Reinhart and Roghoff sp? although I have not read their book. But consider this. The savers of the world the Chinese and Japanese have nice looking credits on their investment statements. BUT the statements ultimately represent loans made to their governments. In the case of Japan much of the loans made by the people to the government were spent by the government in Japan to prop up the economy for the past decade or so. In the case of China the loans made to the government have been used by the Peoples Bank of China to buy US treasuries in order to maintain their currency peg.

So globally what we have is a situation where vast amounts of private savings have been entrusted with domestic or foreign sovereign debt programmes and probably all somehow leveraged 10x. Well! you might say what is so unusual about that! And I would say nothing except that the debts are so large and are sustainable only at low low interest rates. I would ask what happens if there is a crises of confidence in sovereign debt?

Remember how subprime was going to be so easy to contain? Lets hope that the emerging sovereign debt crises in member countries of the EU IS contained! The possibility of a global sovereign debt crises is to horrible too imagine. We won&#039;t be merely worried about capital gains or losses on our bonds. Return of funds in a stable currency may be of a greater concern. Crikey now I&#039;ve got myself all worried again.

Feel free to correct criticise or enlarge.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Finance is so weird. The massive imbalances are obvious to everyone and yet there is huge debate about how they will resolve.</p>
<p>I will try to give my 2 cents worth.</p>
<p>The root cause of the problem are the huge foreign reserves built up by over productive undervalued currencies, and for arguments sake I will lump China and Japan together in this even though their bubbles have occurred many years apart. Both China and Japan have beaten American manurfactures successively on the head. What has kept the American economy going is the steadily lowering of interest rates which I think somehow replaces labor with capital although I don&#8217;t understand this. Anyway what is easily understood is that GDP and employment have been kept up in America by using other peoples money (Japan and China) to consume and build. This was enabled by lowering interest rates and facilitated by the creditor nations through their willingness to lend at those rates.</p>
<p>Now it looks like this process is coming to an end and I think that we should not look to the past twenty years as a guide to what will happen now because there are too many differences. Globalization is now pretty mature. Accordingly and to make my argument as simple as possible the world should be considered as a single economic unit and now I&#8217;m heading in the direction of Reinhart and Roghoff sp? although I have not read their book. But consider this. The savers of the world the Chinese and Japanese have nice looking credits on their investment statements. BUT the statements ultimately represent loans made to their governments. In the case of Japan much of the loans made by the people to the government were spent by the government in Japan to prop up the economy for the past decade or so. In the case of China the loans made to the government have been used by the Peoples Bank of China to buy US treasuries in order to maintain their currency peg.</p>
<p>So globally what we have is a situation where vast amounts of private savings have been entrusted with domestic or foreign sovereign debt programmes and probably all somehow leveraged 10x. Well! you might say what is so unusual about that! And I would say nothing except that the debts are so large and are sustainable only at low low interest rates. I would ask what happens if there is a crises of confidence in sovereign debt?</p>
<p>Remember how subprime was going to be so easy to contain? Lets hope that the emerging sovereign debt crises in member countries of the EU IS contained! The possibility of a global sovereign debt crises is to horrible too imagine. We won&#8217;t be merely worried about capital gains or losses on our bonds. Return of funds in a stable currency may be of a greater concern. Crikey now I&#8217;ve got myself all worried again.</p>
<p>Feel free to correct criticise or enlarge.</p>
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		<title>By: johnborchers</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2010/02/end-of-the-bond-secular-bull-market/comment-page-1/#comment-253732</link>
		<dc:creator>johnborchers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Feb 2010 23:01:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=51160#comment-253732</guid>
		<description>You have to own long term treasuries here (TLT). When you have deflation you come after any interest rate. Ben is printing to fill the credit bubble. As he fills the hole the money disappears. US is the next Japan. Look at the Japan long term rate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You have to own long term treasuries here (TLT). When you have deflation you come after any interest rate. Ben is printing to fill the credit bubble. As he fills the hole the money disappears. US is the next Japan. Look at the Japan long term rate.</p>
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		<title>By: bmoseley</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2010/02/end-of-the-bond-secular-bull-market/comment-page-1/#comment-253731</link>
		<dc:creator>bmoseley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Feb 2010 22:52:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=51160#comment-253731</guid>
		<description>you don&#039;t really believe that &#039;head and shoulder&#039; are any good at predicting. especially before they form. they look meaningful in hindsight.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>you don&#8217;t really believe that &#8216;head and shoulder&#8217; are any good at predicting. especially before they form. they look meaningful in hindsight.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike in Nola</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2010/02/end-of-the-bond-secular-bull-market/comment-page-1/#comment-253723</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike in Nola</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Feb 2010 22:25:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=51160#comment-253723</guid>
		<description>Lefty:  how can you be so damn articulate?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lefty:  how can you be so damn articulate?</p>
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