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	<title>Comments on: Insolvent European vs American States</title>
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	<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2010/02/insolvent-european-vs-american-states/</link>
	<description>Macro Perspective on the Capital Markets, Economy, Geopolitics, Technology, and Digital Media</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 14 Feb 2012 21:03:30 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Economic news headlines &#124; Money Supply &#124; FT.com</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2010/02/insolvent-european-vs-american-states/comment-page-2/#comment-254273</link>
		<dc:creator>Economic news headlines &#124; Money Supply &#124; FT.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Feb 2010 13:59:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=51389#comment-254273</guid>
		<description>[...] Insolvent European vs. American states - Big Picture [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Insolvent European vs. American states &#8211; Big Picture [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Living Inside a Broken Clock: Thursday, Feb. 11, 2010 &#124; the evil speculator - one nefarious trade at a time</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2010/02/insolvent-european-vs-american-states/comment-page-2/#comment-254263</link>
		<dc:creator>Living Inside a Broken Clock: Thursday, Feb. 11, 2010 &#124; the evil speculator - one nefarious trade at a time</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Feb 2010 12:46:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=51389#comment-254263</guid>
		<description>[...] http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2010/02/insolvent-european-vs-american-states/ [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] <a href="http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2010/02/insolvent-european-vs-american-states/" rel="nofollow">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2010/02/insolvent-european-vs-american-states/</a> [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Greece&#8217;s Debt Crisis in Context &#171; thwap!</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2010/02/insolvent-european-vs-american-states/comment-page-2/#comment-254234</link>
		<dc:creator>Greece&#8217;s Debt Crisis in Context &#171; thwap!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Feb 2010 06:22:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=51389#comment-254234</guid>
		<description>[...] Big Picture almost says something smart about Greece&#8217;s current debt crisis.  Almost. In contrast, consider the distressed United States: How do our own economic “pigs” [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Big Picture almost says something smart about Greece&#8217;s current debt crisis.  Almost. In contrast, consider the distressed United States: How do our own economic “pigs” [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Perspective on Greece &#171; The Reasoned Review</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2010/02/insolvent-european-vs-american-states/comment-page-2/#comment-254227</link>
		<dc:creator>Perspective on Greece &#171; The Reasoned Review</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Feb 2010 04:31:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=51389#comment-254227</guid>
		<description>[...] Ritholz over at The Big Picture has an excellent post on Greece&#8217;s debt woes vs. those of the United States: All by itself, the insolvent [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Ritholz over at The Big Picture has an excellent post on Greece&#8217;s debt woes vs. those of the United States: All by itself, the insolvent [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: bobr</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2010/02/insolvent-european-vs-american-states/comment-page-2/#comment-254223</link>
		<dc:creator>bobr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Feb 2010 04:20:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=51389#comment-254223</guid>
		<description>&quot;Arizona
Budget gap (as a % of the total budget): 19.9%
Gap: $2 billion&quot;

$2B is this year (ending June 30, 2010.  Next year (beginning July 1, 2010) is
closer to $4B.

Isn&#039;t that cheerful?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Arizona<br />
Budget gap (as a % of the total budget): 19.9%<br />
Gap: $2 billion&#8221;</p>
<p>$2B is this year (ending June 30, 2010.  Next year (beginning July 1, 2010) is<br />
closer to $4B.</p>
<p>Isn&#8217;t that cheerful?</p>
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		<title>By: the Lex team</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2010/02/insolvent-european-vs-american-states/comment-page-2/#comment-254221</link>
		<dc:creator>the Lex team</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Feb 2010 04:14:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=51389#comment-254221</guid>
		<description>The FT followed your lead:



&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.ft.com/cms/s/3/055126f4-1624-11df-8d0f-00144feab49a.html?catid=191&amp;SID=google February 10 2010 09:10&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Fifty Greeces: weakness at the periphery&lt;/a&gt;


Connecticut’s Lisbon, New York’s Rome, Georgia’s Athens and Iowa’s Madrid may lack the sense of budgetary crisis being felt lately in their European namesakes, but America’s states and municipalities could yet spark equally vexing problems for the United States. Like the eurozone’s members, America’s states have no currencies of their own to devalue and must tread cautiously between entrenched public sector unions and irate taxpaying voters.

Growth in state budgetsAnd just as those betting on the health of the euro once paid too much attention to what was happening in its financial centres, without fully appreciating looming weakness at the periphery, the budgetary strains in America’s 50 states and 52,000 municipalities get too little attention.

Though not as profligate as some peripheral European nations, US states spent freely before the recession. In the 30 years ending in 2008, spending grew at a compound annual rate of 6.7 per cent, well above inflation. Even after cutting an estimated $256bn from their budgets from 2009-2011, substantial gaps remain with several states recently identifying other shortfalls. Even this understates the problem, though, as actuaries have identified pension funding shortfalls as high as $3,000bn, or double all annual state spending.

Like Europe’s “no bail-out clause”, an explicit federal lifeline is taboo, although states are dependent on Washington. The 2011 federal budget sets aside $646bn for state transfers, including an extra $85bn in Medicare payments. Then there is the estimated $39bn annually in foregone revenue through the tax exemption given to most of the $2,800bn municipal debt market.

But the extra stimulus that has recently covered shortfalls will soon ebb, leaving budgetary holes that may tempt cities into Chapter 9 bankruptcy. With companies and residents free to relocate to any other city state, there is a limit to how deeply services can be cut or taxes raised before this becomes attractive. Timothy Geithner, US Treasury secretary, recently scoffed at the prospect of America losing its triple A rating, but most of its constituent parts already have and some may soon be in outright default.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The FT followed your lead:</p>
<blockquote><p><a href="http://www.ft.com/cms/s/3/055126f4-1624-11df-8d0f-00144feab49a.html?catid=191&#038;SID=google February 10 2010 09:10" rel="nofollow">Fifty Greeces: weakness at the periphery</a></p>
<p>Connecticut’s Lisbon, New York’s Rome, Georgia’s Athens and Iowa’s Madrid may lack the sense of budgetary crisis being felt lately in their European namesakes, but America’s states and municipalities could yet spark equally vexing problems for the United States. Like the eurozone’s members, America’s states have no currencies of their own to devalue and must tread cautiously between entrenched public sector unions and irate taxpaying voters.</p>
<p>Growth in state budgetsAnd just as those betting on the health of the euro once paid too much attention to what was happening in its financial centres, without fully appreciating looming weakness at the periphery, the budgetary strains in America’s 50 states and 52,000 municipalities get too little attention.</p>
<p>Though not as profligate as some peripheral European nations, US states spent freely before the recession. In the 30 years ending in 2008, spending grew at a compound annual rate of 6.7 per cent, well above inflation. Even after cutting an estimated $256bn from their budgets from 2009-2011, substantial gaps remain with several states recently identifying other shortfalls. Even this understates the problem, though, as actuaries have identified pension funding shortfalls as high as $3,000bn, or double all annual state spending.</p>
<p>Like Europe’s “no bail-out clause”, an explicit federal lifeline is taboo, although states are dependent on Washington. The 2011 federal budget sets aside $646bn for state transfers, including an extra $85bn in Medicare payments. Then there is the estimated $39bn annually in foregone revenue through the tax exemption given to most of the $2,800bn municipal debt market.</p>
<p>But the extra stimulus that has recently covered shortfalls will soon ebb, leaving budgetary holes that may tempt cities into Chapter 9 bankruptcy. With companies and residents free to relocate to any other city state, there is a limit to how deeply services can be cut or taxes raised before this becomes attractive. Timothy Geithner, US Treasury secretary, recently scoffed at the prospect of America losing its triple A rating, but most of its constituent parts already have and some may soon be in outright default.</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: cognos</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2010/02/insolvent-european-vs-american-states/comment-page-2/#comment-254198</link>
		<dc:creator>cognos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Feb 2010 01:53:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=51389#comment-254198</guid>
		<description>@drey, ahab -- Do you follow markets?  A good personal portfolio is up 100% since the bottom and it was only down 30% into the bottom.  Push risk on dips (Oct 08, Nov 08, Mar 09, Jul 09), trim on rallies.

You guys dont see the recovery?  Leading indicators are up EVERY MONTH since April 09... GDP was 5.7% in Q4 ?!?  (Is everyone taking crazy pills).

You guys are gonna be waiting for that &quot;depression&quot; trade... which isnt even worth much... for another 50 years.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@drey, ahab &#8212; Do you follow markets?  A good personal portfolio is up 100% since the bottom and it was only down 30% into the bottom.  Push risk on dips (Oct 08, Nov 08, Mar 09, Jul 09), trim on rallies.</p>
<p>You guys dont see the recovery?  Leading indicators are up EVERY MONTH since April 09&#8230; GDP was 5.7% in Q4 ?!?  (Is everyone taking crazy pills).</p>
<p>You guys are gonna be waiting for that &#8220;depression&#8221; trade&#8230; which isnt even worth much&#8230; for another 50 years.</p>
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		<title>By: flipspiceland</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2010/02/insolvent-european-vs-american-states/comment-page-2/#comment-254184</link>
		<dc:creator>flipspiceland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Feb 2010 01:11:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=51389#comment-254184</guid>
		<description>There is aq certain justice in the fact that states, cities, towns, and other so-called government employers do not have enough money set aside for the pensions they have accrued.

And why shouldn&#039;t this be so?  90% of the people who inhabit these grossly overpaid positions don&#039;t deserve a quarter of what they have been paid, let alone the lavish retirements for doing practically nothing their entire lives, but getting their sponsors re-elected.

Fuck  &#039;em, every single one of &#039;em.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is aq certain justice in the fact that states, cities, towns, and other so-called government employers do not have enough money set aside for the pensions they have accrued.</p>
<p>And why shouldn&#8217;t this be so?  90% of the people who inhabit these grossly overpaid positions don&#8217;t deserve a quarter of what they have been paid, let alone the lavish retirements for doing practically nothing their entire lives, but getting their sponsors re-elected.</p>
<p>Fuck  &#8216;em, every single one of &#8216;em.</p>
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		<title>By: philipat</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2010/02/insolvent-european-vs-american-states/comment-page-2/#comment-254179</link>
		<dc:creator>philipat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Feb 2010 00:49:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=51389#comment-254179</guid>
		<description>Moral Hazard all over again. How can we ever expect Governments to eliminate Moral Hazard in the Private sector if we are now to see the same thing in the Public sector? Whatever happenned to fiscal responsibility. Sigh...........................

Greece needs to cut spending and increase tax revenues. Period. If it gets bailed out, where is the impetus ever to do so going to come from. Sometimes it takes a crisis to force the tough (Responsible?) decisions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Moral Hazard all over again. How can we ever expect Governments to eliminate Moral Hazard in the Private sector if we are now to see the same thing in the Public sector? Whatever happenned to fiscal responsibility. Sigh&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;</p>
<p>Greece needs to cut spending and increase tax revenues. Period. If it gets bailed out, where is the impetus ever to do so going to come from. Sometimes it takes a crisis to force the tough (Responsible?) decisions.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: philipat</title>
		<link>http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2010/02/insolvent-european-vs-american-states/comment-page-2/#comment-254178</link>
		<dc:creator>philipat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Feb 2010 00:49:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/?p=51389#comment-254178</guid>
		<description>Moral Hazard all over again. How can we evr expect Governments to eliminate Moral Hazard in the Private sector if we are now to see the same thing in the Public sector? Whatever happenned to fiscal responsibility. Sigh...........................

Greece needs to cut spending and increase tax revenues. Period. If it gets bailed out, where is the impetus ever to do so going to come from. Sometimes it takes a crisis to force the tough (Responsible?) decisions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Moral Hazard all over again. How can we evr expect Governments to eliminate Moral Hazard in the Private sector if we are now to see the same thing in the Public sector? Whatever happenned to fiscal responsibility. Sigh&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;</p>
<p>Greece needs to cut spending and increase tax revenues. Period. If it gets bailed out, where is the impetus ever to do so going to come from. Sometimes it takes a crisis to force the tough (Responsible?) decisions.</p>
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