Yesterday morning, I had The Misinformation Hour on TV as I got dressed for work. One of the comments that was made –  “No one was wrongly thrown out of their home” — was repeated or ignored by hosts and guests alike.

This is patently demonstrably false, and yet no one challenged it.

The banks have gotten the Big Lie technique down to a science: State a lie so colossal that no one could believe anyone “has the impudence to distort the truth so infamously.” In practice, adding factually accurate, but irrelevant or misleading color, helps push the lie on unsusp0ecting rubes.

The banks and their many supplicants have been successful in doing just that in the robosigning issue. Any discussion about property rights, due process, or criminal investigations into perjury are thwarted; instead, the focus is on deadbeat homeowners. And note that I am the guy who in Q1 2010 wrote More Foreclosures, Please . . .)

The misdirection is successful, and the average reader/viewer/listener has no idea how badly they are being misinformed.

Beyond property rights and due process, the issue of this legal impossibility of being wrongly foreclosed upon (absent fraud), are the bailouts. Saving broken business models managed incompetently by bad management is a recipe for more errors and angst.

Fraudclosure is a perfect example of this. When you save broken companies from their own incompetence, this is what you get.

We have no record of how many people have been erroneously foreclosed — the banks themselves are the only centralized source of that data, and they ain’t talking — but we have lots of anecdotal evidence.

The plural of anecdote is not data; what is needed is a central collection of all the anecdotal errors of false or erroneous foreclosure — someone with a national office, say a US Attorney’s or Congressman’s office.

I will tag a few people today . . . but to get them started, here is what I have assembled from the media:

The Erroneous Foreclosure Central Data Repository:

• Lawsuit accuses Bank of America of seizing wrong house: Dr. Alan Schroit filed the lawsuit Monday in the 122nd State District Court in Galveston against the bank with which he has neither a relationship nor a mortgage. (The Galveston County Daily News)

• Christopher Hamby of Wheelwright, Ky., filed a lawsuit against Bank of America for repossessing his home by mistake and refusing to pay for damages other than replacing the locks. (Floyd County Times)

• Jason Grodensky bought his modest Fort Lauderdale home in December, he paid cash. But seven months later, he was surprised to learn that Bank of America had foreclosed on the house, even though Grodensky did not have a mortgage.  (Sun Sentinel)

• A Hampton Pennsylvania woman is suing Bank of America, saying one of its contractors wrongly repossessed her home, padlocked the doors, shut off the utilities, damaged the furniture and confiscated a pet parrot, though her mortgage payments were on time. (Pittsburgh Post-Gazette)

• Charlie P. and Maria Cardoso of New Bedford claimed that their home in Florida was free of any mortgage. They filed a lawsuit for a wrong foreclosure, claiming that the Bank of America had foreclosed. Their lawyers argued that the Bank had already been notified about the wrong foreclosure, in July, despite which it got foreclosed (South Coast Today)

• A Las Vegas woman whose condo was mistakenly emptied in a bungled foreclosure action could be the first person to benefit from a new state law.  Nilly Mauck, left Las Vegas in mid-December for a snowboarding trip to Utah and returned to stay with a friend for a few days when she received a disturbing phone call. Something was amiss at the Coronado Palms condominium on Badura Avenue that she had owned for the past two years. (Las Vegas Sun)

• Ricky Rought paid cash to the Deutsche Bank National Trust Company for a four-room cabin in Michigan with the intention of fixing it up for his daughter. Instead, the bank tried to foreclose on the property and the locks were changed, court records show. (Dealbook)

• Sonya Robison is facing a foreclosure suit in Colorado after the company handling her mortgage encouraged her to skip a payment, she says, to square up for mistakenly changing the locks on her home, too. (Colorado Springs Business Journal)

• Thomas and Charlotte Sexton, of Kentucky, were successfully foreclosed upon by a mortgage trust that, according to court records, does not exist. (NYT)

• Ron and LaRhonda Wilson Sr. in a process that allows debtors to reorganize their finances. Lawyers representing Option One Mortgage Corp. alleged that Mr. Wilson was delinquent in mortgage payments and late charges, and asked to foreclose in March 2008, documents show. That foreclosure motion included a document now central to the case being pursued by the trustee: an affidavit submitted by Dory Goebel, an employee at a predecessor company to Lender Processing called Fidelity National Information Services Inc. In a notarized “affidavit of debt,” Ms. Goebel said the Wilsons were delinquent on monthly payments between November 2007 and February 2008, according to documents.  The Wilsons’ lawyer subsequently proved to the court that the Wilsons had made debt payments, according to court documents.  (WSJ)

Category: Bailouts, Financial Press, Foreclosures, Really, really bad calls, Television

Please use the comments to demonstrate your own ignorance, unfamiliarity with empirical data and lack of respect for scientific knowledge. Be sure to create straw men and argue against things I have neither said nor implied. If you could repeat previously discredited memes or steer the conversation into irrelevant, off topic discussions, it would be appreciated. Lastly, kindly forgo all civility in your discourse . . . you are, after all, anonymous.

53 Responses to “The Big Lie on Fraudclosure”

  1. [...] Data needed on the Fraudclosure debate.  (TBP) [...]

  2. “…The banks have.. the Big Lie technique down to a science:…”

    “…— someone with a national office, say a US Attorney’s or Congressman’s office.”
    ~~

    BR,

    are you Sure, that by singling out ‘the Banks’ (in re: ‘The Big Lie’), you aren’t perpetuating “The Big(ger) Lie” ?

    seriously, We can pretend that We haven’t been ___________ , by the FedRes-FedGov duopoly, while listening to the (unofficial) Anthem of our (Stockholm) Syndrome http://www.elyrics.net/read/s/sheryl-crow-lyrics/strong-enough-lyrics.html

    “…Lie to me
    I promise I’ll believe
    Lie to me
    But please don’t leave…”

    But, at the EOD, simple Tricks (Productive Activities), like

    World’s Fastest Supercomputer… Is In China
    October 28th, 2010

    Via: Nvidia Press Release:

    Tianhe-1A, a new supercomputer revealed today at HPC 2010 China, has set a new performance record of 2.507 petaflops, as measured by the LINPACK benchmark, making it the fastest system in China and in the world today.

    Tianhe-1A was designed by the National University of Defense Technology (NUDT) in China. The system is housed at National Supercomputer Center in Tianjin and is already fully operational.
    http://cryptogon.com/?p=18505

    are, assuredly, being turned on other corners..

  3. Petey Wheatstraw says:

    BR:

    It pains me to say it, but nobody cares (until it shows up on their doorstep, and then its too late). The populace is blissfully ignorant of ALL major issues facing us, nationally and globally. Apathy would be off the chart, if there was a chart. From Priests diddling little boys, to the forever destruction of our environment in the quest for profits (BP spill, mountaintopping for coal, frac mining for NG, as examples), to unconcealed, unpunished criminality in the highest places (even blatant treason by the VP of the US), it just does not matter.

    Even if you get 10,000 examples, backed by unimpeachable proof, of the victims of this particular genre of criminality, not a damned thing will be done about it.

  4. lambert says:

    They’re not “incompetent.” They’re highly competent, both at stealing and gaming the political system to their benefit. That’s what living in a kleptocracy is all about.

  5. BennyProfane says:

    Why do you even bother to listen to those whiney b*****s in the morning? I turn it on every few weeks, hoping for an interesting guest, but all I get is that Kernan fellow blaming all the world’s woes on Obama’s meddling and obstruction. And, you know, I think he actually believes it.

  6. Patrick Neid says:

    In the current SNAFU circumstances what is an acceptable amount of mistakes? Is anyone suggesting that with millions of foreclosures in less than two years there would be no mistakes? Does anyone doubt that if the numbers are there that attorneys will ride in and start class action suits?

    Those issues aside, does anyone know how many “mistake foreclosures” happen in normal times. I know they are forever breaking down the wrong doors in drug raids.

    ~~~

    BR: This is about process, not outcome.

    What we had was banks hiring people to rubber stamp documents, and to falsely claiming that have reviewed the file, verified the data within, and attest to it being accurate. We know they reviewed none of it, and thus, committed perjury when they submitted those documents to court.

    The mechanics of perjury are easy. Why do you have such a hard time grasping this?

  7. Arturo says:

    Patrick Neid:

    Please get up off your knees, and take that giant bank cock out of your mouth You continually get these things wrong, and in a such an obvious and ignorant way.

    Ritholtz:

    Please install a plug in that lets us ignore these fools!

  8. Tarkus says:

    The reporting media is essentially worthless with only a few exceptions. Much of it is subverted to prompt an agenda, so they should be looked upon as salesmen, not information sources.
    As long as the reality is not reported, they can foster the communal feeling “most people don’t seem too concerned, so why should I be?” Like not being sure if there is a fire, and checking if others in the theater are running for the exits before getting out of the seat yourself.

    Why are there no politicians railing about what is happening – or if there are, wh do they get little/no air time?

  9. OT:

    Petey,

    this, generally, is a real issue: “…Like the wastewater pits increasingly used by the gas industry in Pennsylvania – the largest of which can hold the equivalent of 22 Olympic-size swimming pools full of contaminated fluid – the problem of what to do with the liquid waste from Marcellus Shale drilling is enormous.

    The average Marcellus Shale well requires 4 million gallons of water mixed with sand and chemicals to break apart – or hydraulically fracture – the rock formation and release the gas.

    About 1 million gallons of that fluid, now saturated with the salts, metals and naturally occurring radiation that had been trapped in the shale, returns to the surface to be treated, diluted, reused or pumped underground in deep disposal wells.

    There has been significant progress in determining what exactly is in the waste and how to reuse it over the last two years – from when the state’s environmental regulatory agency belatedly discovered that drillers were sending the fluids to publicly owned sewer systems incapable of treating it, to last week, when the state Independent Regulatory Review Commission endorsed strict restrictions on how much of the waste can be discharged into Pennsylvania’s streams…”
    http://thetimes-tribune.com/news/massive-use-of-water-in-gas-drilling-presents-myriad-chances-for-pollution-1.858914
    http://www.dunkardcreekkill.com/?p=49

    The ‘Water Use’-issue, is one thing, the “Geology”-exercise in FUD, is another..

    Needless to say, the ‘impoundment ponds’ are unnecessary, and the Waters, used, and developed, by the Fracturing Process, can be remediated/recycled on-site..

    Higher, short-term, Financial Cost; Lower, long-term, Economic Expense.

  10. pintelho says:

    Sadly, the skill of perpetuating Big Lies are not solely the skill of bankers…this is actually what the media is for…

    so really what you should be saying is that the media is the tool that is available to anyone who wants to perpetuate a big lie

    politicians do it, bankers and economists do it…anyone really who they allow on there has the option to use the media for what it does best…fabricate the “truth”

  11. JerseyCynic says:

    Baby Boomers: Get Out of the Stock Market Now, the Rug is Being Pulled Out By Insiders
    http://www.activistpost.com/2010/10/baby-boomers-get-out-of-stock-market.html#comments

    Is the stock market rigged?
    http://dailybail.com/home/is-the-stock-market-rigged-dylan-ratigan-video-ask-brian-sac.html

    what’s brian sack doing — I’ve lost track
    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125720947716624249.html

    JUST SHOOT ME NOW

    http://www.salon.com/technology/how_the_world_works/2010/10/26/wall_street_and_the_tea_party/index.html

    “…The disconnect is that freedom for Wall Street, in practice, leads to less freedom for the rest of us. Or at least that’s what the evidence of the last few years appears to demonstrate. Why are so many Americans angry? Because millions of us have suffered as a direct result of the irresponsibility and greed of a few. Because loosening restrictions on Wall Street did not result in greater prosperity for everyone, but in a calamity the likes of which the nation had not seen in 80 years.

    Last time around, America learned its lesson, and institutions like the Securities and Exchange Commission were created to protect Americans from Wall Street abuses. This time around, the difference couldn’t be sharper, more dramatic, or more ludicrous. Republicans are campaigning on a pledge to go easy on Wall Street! Republicans are campaigning on pledges to weaken regulations that were never that strong to begin with. The very financial institutions whose bailout enraged so many nascent Tea Partiers are harnessing that rage for their own benefit, and laughing all the way to the bank.”

  12. FrancoisT says:

    Barry,

    One of the most symptomatic manifestations of the degree of rot eating this country is the absolute servility, slothfulness and moral depravity of the US establishment media.

    Just a couple of examples, picked at random, by moi:

    Yokina Guchi, on NPR, Morning Edition: 4 minutes piece on strategic default. Listening to that bankster PR-generated fluff piece almost cost me my carefully, home made breakfast. Not ONCE, did the piece mention that strategic default is an everyday occurrence in the business world. But, we, the listeners, were treated with the steaming pile of grade-AAA bullshit about the moral imperative of consumer to “honor their obligations”. We even had a recording about this topic for the chief spokeperson of the ABA! The same ABA who strategically defaulted this very winter. BTW, we, the people, got to know about this escapade thanks to The Daily Show!

    And NPR wonders why it’s so painful to complete a membership drive? Mbwahahahahahahahaha!

    Gretchen Mortgenson, on NPR Fresh Air, about the fraudclosure. Great clinical description of what is going on…but…by all means, avoid the word “fraud” at all costs, do not delve into the common causes of all theses problems and, por favor, do not connect the dots for us. We’ll let more unserious people like, “some bloggers” to do that for us.

    As for CNBS…do I really have to comment on these clowns?

    You already took care of the WSJ.

    And that is just talking about ONE topic, that is, fraudclosure. If we had to get into civil rights…oh my! And health care, or voters rights.

    It ain’t pretty out there these days.

    ~~~

    BR: I dont look at it as sloth — they are corporate owned. GE, Comcast, Disney — whose water should we expect them to carry?

  13. NoKidding says:

    “Last time around, America learned its lesson, and institutions like the Securities and Exchange Commission were created to protect Americans from Wall Street abuses.”

    Thank goodness. Imagine the shennanigans on wall street without a strong, independent regulator like the SEC.

    1) Big crisis
    1A) Create central authority
    2) Next big crisis
    2A) Increase central authority
    3-10) Next big crisis
    3A-10A) Add independent crisis specific authorities
    11) Next big crisis
    11a) Bring all of the central authorities under an new cabinet-level central authority

    When Shapespeare wrote “and who will watch the watchmen” it was already a worn out idea.

  14. Evoo Kermartin says:

    “Tell the repo man and the stars above…” that car loans are also securitized. I hope that folk will take heed of the preceding sentence and ask themselves whether foreclosures on automobile collateral are any cleaner or more orderly than foreclosures on real property collateral.

    EK out.

  15. JerseyCynic says:

    very well presented Petey

    from my favorite gold but bill boner on the welfare state (from july)

    The welfare state doesn’t pay any more – not in France, Hungary or the US… http://goldnews.bullionvault.com/welfare_state_072620101

    oh look – he’s got another gem from last month I missed. He’s too much
    (i see they’re commenting there now) — I’ll have to start hanging out there again!

    http://dailyreckoning.com/welfare-states-decline-along-with-youth-population/

  16. Petey Wheatstraw says:

    Arturo:

    Ha!

  17. jdjed says:

    The weekend is here and as I sip an espresso listening to Vivaldi’s Four Seasons Barry thwarts it by misspelling “capisce” (capiscer = to understand).

    P.S. Wow, you were quick to withdraw. A bit too Tony Soprano for TBP : )

  18. Lugnut says:

    “Yesterday morning, I had The Misinformation Hour on TV as I got dressed for work…..”

    I hope you learned your lesson and trust that you won’t be repeating this mistake in the future.

    Becky and Joe are the financial industry equivilent of Cheri Oteri and Will Farrell’s Spartan Cheerleader characters from SNL. They could ignore the studio in collapsing in flames around them while smiling into the camera if they thought it prop up the DJIA moving average for another week.

  19. NoKidding says:

    Ultimately if we would just enforce existing laws, instead of rewriting the rulebook after every crisis…

    What stops that?

    On all of earth, in all recorded history, what human institution has never been corrupted?

  20. krice2001 says:

    @ Francois T
    You are so right. The almost amusing thing about NPR is the belief by some that they are some left wing equivalent to Fox News. Nothing could be further from the truth.

    I used to contribute to NPR annually because they were seemingly such an unbiased source of somewhat in-depth news coverage. They have become corporate shills like so much of the rest of media – maybe it’s the desperate need for corporate underwriting to sustain their operations or just trying too hard to overcome an earlier incarnation of leaning to the left.

    But now that even NPR allows unchallenged “facts” on foreclosures and related issues… I don’t know if there’s much hope for balanced information to get out there into the public sphere. (except for here of course).

  21. Patrick Neid says:

    Thanks for the ad hominem Arturo, it’s suits your alias.

    Barry, I get the process. What I don’t do is hyperventilate about it. Post bubble I expect fraudulent behavior, you don’t? What I was looking for was some background to measure it by. How many mistaken foreclosures happen in normal times? How/are the victims compensated? If you found out that 100 mistaken foreclosures happen in perfect conditions and only 80 have happened with robo signers/fradulent process, etc would that change your opinion on the gravity of the fraud?

    But whatever, if you don’t like the questions you don’t have to be nasty about it. You let Arturo make his post, so in that vein take your cock out of Arturo’s mouth!

    Enjoy your fifteen minutes…..

  22. If you want someone else in the MSM to bitch about, here’s the Economist’s take on the matter:

    “No evidence that anyone has been wrongly evicted has yet been found. Servicers say they can have their paperwork straight in a few weeks. But this is about more than slipshod affidavits. The scramble to securitise mortgages in the boom led not only to iffy loan underwriting but also to questionable record-keeping, including the recording of title. When pressed, some lenders have struggled to produce documents showing they own loans. To allow mortgages to be traded without falling foul of local property laws, the industry created an electronic-processing firm, Mortgage Electronic Registration Systems (MERS). But its right to act as an agent for lenders in foreclosures is under attack. ”

    http://www.economist.com/node/17257787

    ~In my opinion, The Economist usually does a pretty fair job of reporting on things across the pond. Without a dog in the hunt, they often seem to come at an issue in the States w/ a fair amount of objectivity. But I’m sure others feel differently, and this will example will just affirm their views of their detestable reporting.

    But here’s a question that I’ve yet to see asked by anyone bemoaning robosigners and such as the focus of evil in the modern world: What is the essential purpose of an affidavit attesting to having reviewed a foreclosure file? Isn’t it to ensure the accuracy of the file? Has a robosigned affidavit failed of its essential purpose if it turns out that the file is in fact accurate? And isn’t review and attestation of a file a subjective evaluation anyway? How much of the file must be reviewed? Is it enough to have reviewed computer summaries of the file, or must each page signed at closing be inspected for accuracy?

    And another question: When a borrower sits down to sign the closing papers, they attest to having reviewed and understood everything they’re signing. How many have actually done so? I can tell you that in about 6,000 or so closings I conducted, I can only be sure that it happened once, when a borrower wanted to see the entire closing package the day before closing, which we provided.

    And a last point: Only a few states require an affidavit filed in court that the file has been reviewed by the mortgagee prior to foreclosing. Florida seems to be the epicenter of the problems with foreclosure mills. I know that one of the regional banks in my hometown was taking upwards of two years to foreclose on property in Florida, even before foreclosuregate. Florida’s onerous foreclosure law and procedures practically made foreclosure mills a necessity, if the idea of roughly equivalent housing liquidity across a nationally-funded housing market was to be realized. I wonder whether Florida really wants to be the state that derails the mortgage securitization train, like in many respects it derailed the insurance underwriting train after the mid-aughts hurricanes. Bad law and policy is like currency. It tends to drive out good law and policy. Would the residential real estate market be better off if all states had Florida’s foreclosure law and procedure?

  23. blueveiner says:

    I have to agree with Neid’s comment that without any relative data, none of the cited news articles mean much. Simple stat should be improper foreclosure proceedings per year, or better yet, improper foreclosure proceedings as a % of total foreclosure proceedings. One can then get a better sense if this issue is statistical deviation from historical norm. I would not be surprised to discover that these events still happened earlier in the last decade. I can imagine there is a similar degree of error in auto repossessions.

  24. machinehead says:

    ‘The plural of anecdote is not data.’

    Brilliant coinage, Dr. Ritholtz. Let me complete the aphorism:

    The plural of anecdote is not data; it’s metatruth.

  25. Peter Pan says:

    Here’s a link to a document that has a slew of court cases – http://www.mortgagestudy.org/files/mortgage_resources.pdf

    Unfortunately it hasn’t been updated since July 2009.

  26. Joe Friday says:

    BR: “The banks have gotten the Big Lie technique down to a science: State a lie so colossal that no one could believe anyone ‘has the impudence to distort the truth so infamously’. In practice, adding factually accurate, but irrelevant or misleading color, helps push the lie on unsuspecting rubes.”

    Brought to you from the same folks that brought us:

    * It’s all the fault of the Community Reinvestment Act

    * It’s all the fault of those minorities

    * It’s all the fault of Fannie & Freddie

  27. Ken Picard says:

    Program Meant to Help Homeowners Actually Sends Many Into Foreclosure

    While thousands of people in other states have lost their homes in the national mortgage crisis, local politicians have touted Vermont’s relatively low foreclosure rate — 50th in the nation, according to RealtyTrac [1], a website that tracks state-by-state foreclosure rates.

    But not everyone in Vermont is celebrating. A federal program designed to help struggling Green Mountain homeowners has had the opposite effect: It’s forced many into foreclosure, including people who are gainfully employed and have never missed a mortgage payment.

    The Home Affordable Modification Program [2] was created by the Obama administration to allow income-qualified homeowners to renegotiate the terms of their loans. Following a three-month trial-and-review period, they’re permanently assigned a lower monthly rate.

    At least, that’s how HAMP is supposed to work. In practice, Vermonters who’ve experienced the program firsthand say its implementation has been a disaster.

  28. AHodge says:

    Curmudge
    UK media and the FT and Economist are usually good.

    but on financial reform their editors now firmly embracing finance’ s ( for them the City)’s posterior.
    the FT has a few good people like gillian Tett and John Kay,
    but even martin wolfe has gone Darkside and the FT is filled with screeds of CEOs
    with no place to rebut
    Just a recent example from the FT Chief Business Editor will make you queasy

    Obama must learn to love business
    By John Gapper
    Published: October 27

  29. Mannwich says:

    Agreed, AHodge. I used to subscribe to The Economist and liked it for a while, but eventually I figured out they were also mainly a mouthpiece for the elite, the global elite.

  30. gman says:

    Like a Bush2 minion once famously said in the run up to the iraq war when asked about the costs/wisdom and wmd…”we create our own reality”

  31. [...] When you bail out banks don’t be surprised if you get “fraudclosure.”  (Big Picture) [...]

  32. Lyle says:

    Actually Curmudgeon has a good idea. People should get copies of the closing documents a day earlier by FedEx or UPS. Then they can take them to their lawyer. When I closed on a house in 1978 I recall being pressured to hurry up and sign everything because the closer only had a limited time to do things.

    On another topic every so often the police raid the wrong house on a drug raid, and a few times the wrong house gets torn down, so that since humans run the process mistakes happen. The question is what is the rate in these cases.

  33. Lyle says:

    Let me add that for the note and deed of trust, fannie and freddie have their forms online. You just won’t know what the blanks will be. One thing I note that should be fixed on these forms notifications should be sent either certified mail or via FedEx/UPS so you have proof of delivery and the reciever can be sure that they are at least notified of the document. The current standards say just first class mail which can get lost.

  34. Andy T says:

    Barry,

    There were certainly improper foreclosure and evictions. I think the bonehead hosts said “No one was wrongly thrown out of their home.”

    Of all the cases you cited above, I don’t see any stories of someone “thrown out of their home.” The lady in Nevada was the victim of a reckless moving company–not a bad foreclosure.

    I think I have read about 2 or 3 instances of this happening…i.e. “the lady and her parrot.” But, let’s be honest, as awful as this “fraudclosure” mess is, very people have actually suffered the fate of being removed from their homes while “current.” That’s certainly a few too many, but out of millions of foreclosures, I would have thought there would have been even more problems over the last few years.

    I think that’s the gist of what the “Misinformation Hour” people were suggesting.

    They were wrong, but the weren’t that far off.

    NOTE: This is a big issue. This is a big financial issue for the banks and the people who hold some of this paper. And, it seems like there was either civil or criminal fraud involved in some of these “Fast-Food” foreclosures. But, I just haven’t seen many instances of real folks getting forced out of their homes while current on a mortgage. I think this one of the reasons the issue has faded from the “news”….legal action between financial heavyweights just isn’t that interesting to most folks. Whereas a bunch of families getting tossed out on the street by the Sheriff while current on a loan would make the news.

  35. Loki4-2 says:

    Bumping these questions to Barry:

    “What I was looking for was some background to measure it by. How many mistaken foreclosures happen in normal times? How/are the victims compensated? If you found out that 100 mistaken foreclosures happen in perfect conditions and only 80 have happened with robo signers/fradulent process, etc would that change your opinion on the gravity of the fraud?”

    Do previous metrics on foreclosure feck-ups matter? The above questions seem a reasonable.

    For the record I’m just an idle foreigner observer that’s interested with the fraudclosure views of Yves, Barry and the rest, but not quite won over.

    @Arturo and “Please install a plug in that lets us ignore these fools!”

    Hey, let’s burn the Witch!

    (Or maybe just provide a rebuttal to questions similar to the above that save sympathetic folk like from thinking that, yeah, maybe the banksters have a point.)

    h/t to a great site

  36. Dude, if you traded as well as you read, you’d be flat ass broke.

    Try reading the first 3 bullet points:

    • Lawsuit accuses Bank of America of seizing wrong house: Dr. Alan Schroit filed the lawsuit Monday in the 122nd State District Court in Galveston against the bank with which he has neither a relationship nor a mortgage. (The Galveston County Daily News)

    • Christopher Hamby of Wheelwright, Ky., filed a lawsuit against Bank of America for repossessing his home by mistake and refusing to pay for damages other than replacing the locks. (Floyd County Times)

    • Jason Grodensky bought his modest Fort Lauderdale home in December, he paid cash. But seven months later, he was surprised to learn that Bank of America had foreclosed on the house, even though Grodensky did not have a mortgage. (Sun Sentinel)

    Can you grok what “seizing” or “repossessing” or “foreclosed” means?

  37. Dennis the menace says:

    Andy T –

    I just reread your comment four times post — and now I know why some commenters think you are a troll. There is simply no way to read any good faith into your comment. It appears willfully ignorant and ignoring the facts and links in the post.

    Weak, very weak.

  38. mathman says:

    The big lie on everything U.S.:

    http://cryptogon.com/?p=18511

  39. “Dude, if you traded as well as you read, you’d be flat ass broke.”

    BR,

    Say it isn’t So ~!

    it, really, is, too, bad that HS isn’t, nearly, as broad a Category as SH is..

    please, don’t do me the Favor, but, Keep it Real~!

    It is what is Good. and, then some..

  40. OT:

    Petey,

    “Gasland”-propaganda aside, can you prove this “…frac mining for NG” ? (as part of ‘destruction of our environment’)

    http://search.yippy.com/search?input-form=clusty-simple&v%3Asources=webplus&v%3Aproject=clusty&query=%22Gasland%22+propaganda

  41. JerseyCynic says:

    thank you mathman

    “He proposes that the government give every person an annual voucher for health care, provided that the total cost not exceed 10 per cent of GDP. (U.S. health care now consumes 16 per cent of GDP.) He suggests the replacement of all current federal taxes with a single consumption tax of 18 per cent. He calls for government-sponsored personal retirement accounts, with the government making contributions only for the poor, the unemployed and people with disabilities.

    Without drastic reform, Prof. Kotlikoff says, the only alternative would be a massive printing of money by the U.S. Treasury – and hyperinflation.

    As former president Bill Clinton once prematurely said, the era of big government is over. In the coming years, the U.S. will almost certainly be compelled to deconstruct its welfare state.

    Prof. Kotlikoff doesn’t trust government accounting, or government regulation. The official vocabulary (deficit, debt, transfer payment, tax, borrowing), he says, is vulnerable to official manipulation and off-the-books deceit. He calls it “Enron accounting.” He also calls it a lie. ”
    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/commentary/neil-reynolds/the-scary-actual-us-government-debt/article1773879/comments/

    many astute observations in the comment section on that link also

    so then what’s the rush to foreclose on all these homes? because somebody’s got to pay the bill. but what happens when a lot of homes come on the market? Maybe if interest rates started rising a bit, people would be more apt to jump in to the housing market. Once inflation hits, the housing market isn’t going up with everything else this time.

    Benefits of home ownership challenged:
    http://www.latimes.com/business/realestate/la-fi-home-ownership-20101003,0,878533.story?source=patrick.net#content

    Taxes aren’t going up.

    Interest rates are key (i think).

  42. Petey Wheatstraw says:

    MEH:

    Never heard of Gasland or Josh Fox. As with BR’s post, there are many anecdotal and individual horror stories regarding frac mining. While I can’t prove the anecdotes true (any more than I can prove that cigarettes and cancer have any connection), the logic behind the effects of such practices (especially in karst, or similar, geological formations) isn’t outside the realm of likelihood.

    Ponder this: If no damage is being done, as has been reported, what’s to gain by presenting such fiction/falsehood? OTOH, who has shitloads of money to lose, should such reports “prove” to be true?

    Here’s a clusty result for you, my friend:

    http://search.yippy.com/search?input-form=clusty-simple&v%3Asources=webplus&v%3Aproject=clusty&query=fracture+mining+pollution

    and this:

    http://search.yippy.com/search?input-form=clusty-simple&v%3Asources=webplus&v%3Aproject=clusty&query=fracture+natural+gas+mining+pollution

  43. Petey Wheatstraw says:

    JerseyCynic, RE: the welfare state:

    Our welfare programs that benefit the already wealthy dwarf those that serve the poverty stricken.

    Show me a wealthy family, and I’ll show you one that eats away at our common wealth. Show me a “self-sufficient” western rancher, and I’ll show you a guy who gets $6-7 dollars in government subsidies for every dollar of his own invested into his “free” enterprise (same goes for energy and broadcast industries).

    It is not by coincidence that bankers and corporate moguls own our government, set policy, control the national discourse and resource allocation, and enrich themselves in the process.

    Poor people have always existed, and always will. The difference in cultures is how those folks are accounted/cared for.

    Our situation is different than that of other third-world countries, in that we have vast natural and human resources that have been misappropriated and/or discounted to zero. It’s fairly difficult for the disenfranchised (think, unemployed, but not unemployable) to pull themselves up by nonexistent boot straps. Should we emulate/imitate India or China?

    If one has never fully experienced a really poor (read, governmentally subsidized) community, one has no idea how pervasive and multi-generational poverty can be — even when individuals are fortunate enough to have the intelligence and drive, but not the avenue, to get out. The number who do get out is dwarfed by the number who don’t.

  44. Petey Wheatstraw says:

    Forgot the biggest leach of all: the “defense” industry.

  45. JerseyCynic says:

    oh man Petey can you imagine the world if all countries agreed to stop funding their “defense industries” (for a couple of years anyway) and lifted their poor out of poverty?

    I bet the U.S alone could wipe out worldwide poverty in no time.

    I shouldn’t put this story here, because I don’t know the WHOLE story behind the author (he’s in jail for murder) but what the hay — it’s pretty well written and very relevant to this topic

    AN INTERVIEW WITH DANIEL SHAYS

    http://proliberty.com/observer/20090205.htm
    Daniel Shays (1741-1825) of Massachusetts fought in two American revolutions. In the first one, he was a captain in the 5th Massachusetts Regiment and fought the British with distinction at Bunker Hill, Ticonderoga, Saratoga and Stony Point. Shays resigned from the army in 1780 and settled in Pelham, Mass. He became a farmer and held several positions in local government. By September of 1787, he was fighting a second revolution—this time against the government of Massachusetts. With the backing of 800 families and about the same number of militiamen, Shays decided to prevent the court from signing indictments against farmers who were behind in taxes that had become as unfair as those levied by the British king a decade before. Shays, who refused to allow a portrait of himself so we do not know what he looked like, forever maintained that he fought both revolutions for the same reason.

  46. Andy T says:

    Apologies Barry. I was in error.

    I had skimmed the articles and knew that you had recited some of the famous ones that have been cited for several weeks now–thus, my comment that I knew of 2-3 people tossed out in error. You found a few more cases for sure.

    As I’ve said–this is bad stuff and civil or criminal charges should be filed.

  47. Andy T says:

    For what it’s worth Barry, I’ve read through all the stories I could read on your “Erroneous Foreclosure Central Data Repository”

    Of the the 10 links you have up there: 2 of them relate to the same story (NYT and Dealbook) and those stories cannot be read due to subscriptions.

    The Galveston, Wheelright and New Bedford cases related to “second/vacation” homes. In the first two cases, nobody was kicked to the street but those second homeowners should have serious cases against their banks for damages as their homes were foreclosed on improperly and damage was done to the property. The New Bedford case had renters in it and a family was displaced–it sounded awful.

    The Grodensky guy in Ft. Lauderdale was not kicked out of his house, but was foreclosed on improperly.

    The Hampton case is the famous “Lady and her Parrot” case. This obviously was very bad and unfortunate.

    As I said above, the Las Vegas case didn’t involve a foreclosure problem at all–it was the mistake of a moving company that handled foreclosures. It sounds like the woman was already moved out of the property in some ways, but it does seems like she will be receiving 3X property damages.

    The two other stories were subscriptions that couldn’t be viewed.

    So, of the cases you served up, I could only read about TWO families that were forced out of homes to due to foreclosure problems (Parrot Lady and the Cordosa/renters). I KNOW there are probably more. One is too many. Two is too many. Three is too many. For sure.

    Some of these homeowners were indeed padlocked out and they had damage done to their properties. They’ve already sued the banks in question and I hope they receive huge rewards to compensate them for their ordeals.

    Thanks for highlighting some of these cases again Barry, as well as some of the new ones. Once again, apologies for not reading through them more carefully on the first go. Fortunately, I’m a better trader than Internet Article reader. :-)

  48. Andy T says:

    Dennis the menace Says:
    October 29th, 2010 at 6:45 pm
    Andy T –

    I just reread your comment four times post — and now I know why some commenters think you are a troll. There is simply no way to read any good faith into your comment. It appears willfully ignorant and ignoring the facts and links in the post.

    Weak, very weak.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Fair Enough.

    I agree. I read through it too fast on the first go.

    However, I still haven’t been able to read about more than 2-3 families “thrown out of their homes”/displaced. But, I know there are more out there.

    If you could find one for me in Houston (4th largest city), I’d personally donate money(or time/effort) to their cause. Send details to andystechnicals@gmail.com. I’m very serious.

  49. maspablo says:

    Andy t.
    While. I rarely agree with you. I do respect your. Honesty/sinceritry

  50. Lucendent says:

    Why get outraged now? The real “Big Lie” is now over 3 years old…
    1. Congress passes a law to help homeowners renegotiate their under water mortgages.
    2. Home owners call their banks but are told they must be 60 days in arrears before they will talk to them.
    3. Home owners fall behind,
    4. Banks stall the renegotiation’s,
    5. Banks robo sign foreclosure documentation.
    6. Home owners loose house.
    7. Banks resell foreclosed homes to investors at a discount they would not offer original homeowners or horde the real estate hoping he recovery comes sooner than later.

    In the mean time Banks hold onto their cash and continue to shell out executive bonuses.
    The news is no longer news. It is big media regurgitating the same crap over and over to fill time on 24Hr networks using sensational headlines to make it seem new and important without giving out any real information and the public ignores it for the most part and lives in their own little bubble saying “All is good in the world” until the crap lands on their doorstep.

  51. Marc P says:

    BR: “The plural of anecdote is not data; what is needed is a central collection of all the anecdotal errors of false or erroneous foreclosure — someone with a national office, say a US Attorney’s or Congressman’s office.”

    I’ll push back on this. These are local problems with a simple solution: the lenders should, and are required to, show up at the courthouse with a note and deed of trust with the lender’s name on it. The law requires it. The homeowners should demand it. Simple problem, simple solution.

    If a lender forecloses without the right to foreclose, then the homeowner has an easy case against the lender. It’s black and white with simple evidence and not expensive. It is the lender’s burden to prove each step in the chain of ownership and that the lender is the correct current owner of the note and deed of trust.

    The courts and juries can whack the lender where it counts.

    We the people should not take ownership of this problem by creating commissions and databases. We know how that that will end: a new federal department, laws letting the lenders out of liability, and bailouts.

  52. jad714 says:

    Fraudclosure runs rampant here in Florida. Don’t be deceived people.

    http://www.philstockworld.com

  53. [...] The Big Lie on Fraudclosure (October 29th, 2010) [...]