American’s spending turned negative in June (-0.2%) for the first time since September 2009. Without government largesse (personal transfer receipts) personal income would have declined. Personal income increased $18.7 billion, or 0.1 percent…Personal current transfer receipts increased 9.5 billion, in contrast to a decrease of $1.4 billion. Government largesse is 51% of income growth.

The BEA revised 2009 and 2010 personal income sharply lower. Yes, once again US beancounters overstate economic strength for years and the Street is mum on the scheme.

Personal income was revised up $69.1 billion, or 0.6 percent, for 2008; was revised down $244.7 billion, or 2.0 percent, for 2009; and was revised down $167.5 billion, or 1.3 percent, for 2010.

Disposable personal income (DPI) (personal income less personal current taxes) was revised up $71.6 billion, or 0.7 percent, for 2008; was revised down $246.1 billion, or 2.2 percent, for 2009; and was revised down
$195.0 billion, or 1.7 percent, for 2010

http://www.bea.gov/newsreleases/national/pi/pinewsrelease.htm

We have screamed for years that jobs & income are the key economic indicators. Everything else is just background music. The average American continues to experience worse economic conditions that most of Wall Street and DC realize or understand.

Americans on food stamps jumped 1.1 million in May to 45,753,078 from 44,647,861 (+12/1% y/y).

http://www.fns.usda.gov/pd/29SNAPcurrPP.htm

Category: Data Analysis, Wages & Income

Please use the comments to demonstrate your own ignorance, unfamiliarity with empirical data and lack of respect for scientific knowledge. Be sure to create straw men and argue against things I have neither said nor implied. If you could repeat previously discredited memes or steer the conversation into irrelevant, off topic discussions, it would be appreciated. Lastly, kindly forgo all civility in your discourse . . . you are, after all, anonymous.

41 Responses to “Discuss: BEA revised 2009 & ’10 Personal Income Sharply Lower”

  1. Concerned Neighbour says:

    The one group that has seen improvement over the last decade is the wealthy, and they are the only group of whom nothing is being asked to solve the problem. I think there is a lot – A LOT – of anger out there, though much of it is comically (and tragically misfocused). The recent debt ceiling theatre no doubt made it worse.

    I laugh when people say Keynesianism doesn’t work, and that’s because Keynesianism isn’t practised in the U.S. True Keynesianism calls for paying down debts and – prepare to be shocked – actually saving money during the good times so that the system has some resiliency in the bad times. Things were so fragile to begin with thanks to the Bush tax cuts and the Bush Holy Oil Wars that when real stimulus was needed, the capacity of the country to administer it was drastically reduced. If the system weren’t so stressed, you wouldn’t see the Tea Bagging loonies come out of the closet in such force. Now they’re just compounding their past mistakes, and no doubt will try to blame it all on the Democrats. And since the Democrats have proven to be utterly spineless, I have little doubt they will succeed. Prepare for a Sarah Palin presidency, because it’s a distinct possibility at this point. And that is downright terrifying to any thinking person.

  2. MayorQuimby says:

    Where are all the Keynsian spendocrats to suggest we add a few trill onto uncle sams balance sheet? Clearly all this monetization, printing and borrowing is doing freaking WONDERS for our economic outlook and stability!

  3. MayorQuimby says:

    @concerned- true dat. When I say keynsians I mean today’s perversion of the man’s work.

  4. Dogfish says:

    @CN

    While I agree with almost all of your statements, we disagree on one point. Palin. Bachmann is the new alpha hyena of the GOP/TP.

    Also, I think the TP could find itself overshadowed by the time NOV12 rolls around… if the situation gets as bad as the signs indicate it may, the populist energy of the TP could spill over and ignite a larger movement among the left and middle. Angry youth helping the old people mount pitchforks on the wheelchairs. Joined by the TP people who wake up and realize the policies they support are screwin’ em.

  5. Frwip says:

    Discuss?

    Not much to discuss, frankly. Just a confirmation of what anyone could observe if one took the pain to do so. Americans are broke, washed out. To make things worse, the easy fix of ever-increasing consumer leverage is no longer available to tart up that pig.

    If I had a reproach for the BEA, it would not be the over-evaluation of those statistics but the fact that they are computed only as aggregate. A break-down of those statistics by income quintiles or deciles is much needed. I’m ready to bet some good money that they would tell an even far more terrifying story, as hinted by the food-stamp numbers or the IRS reports on income tax filings.

  6. MayorQuimby says:

    The fix is always to suck more purchasing power out of J6P by forcing inflation upon him, diluting his dollar or putting him in debt.

    Well, J6P is pret much broke – at least the younger ones are – and so the only place to suck wealth is from those who have it – wealthy individuals, corporations and the grand parents.

  7. ironman says:

    Investors are playing a lot of catch-up to the nation’s real economic situation, so we’re going to see markets react as they have today.

    Speaking of which, we won’t find out until the data is finally released in September, but it’s really likely that the median household income in the U.S. dropped quite a bit in 2010 – although perhaps not as much as indicated at the link, given the “stimulus” tax cuts of that year, which may have skewed the tax receipt data upon which the estimate was calculated.

  8. DrungoHazewood says:

    Check out the jump for Alabama! Jumping Jehoshaphat!

  9. machinehead says:

    The BEA’s retroactive revisions were bad enough. But here’s a way to make them look even worse. Instead of using the BEA’s GDP deflator, Doug Short looked at what real GDP would be if the CPI were applied as the deflator. Answer: 2nd quarter GDP growth flips from slightly positive to minus 3.2%. Here is the butt-ugly chart:

    http://advisorperspectives.com/dshort/charts/indicators/Real-GDP-since-1960-CPI-deflator.gif

    Article link: http://advisorperspectives.com/dshort/updates/GDP-Deflators.php

    Not that CPI is an appropriate deflator for GDP. But the inflationary reality probably lies somewhere in between the BEA and CPI numbers.

    What rings true about the chart above is that the direction is right — 2nd quarter growth actually decelerated (or went negative) compared to the first quarter, rather than rising slightly as the flash GDP estimate improbably asserted.

  10. philipat says:

    Clearly what we need now is more Government, more spending and higher taxes so that we can issue more food stamps to more people. Rinse, recycle. Socialist eutopia here we come.

    The floor in the “Keynsian” arguement is that what Keynes REALLY said was that we should at present be spending the reserves that were accululated during the good times. Some hope of that in DC.

  11. philipat says:

    Flaw, but floor will do!!

  12. rktbrkr says:

    Oil prices (not gasoline) are right back to where they were 12 mos ago. It will take time to wring out commodity costs price increases but we could be right back at Bernanke’s deflation cunumdrum in a heartbeat the way things are falling, funny.

    Onion should update Bernanke’s bender in a neighborhood bar story, life imitates art “boy, are we fukked”

  13. BuffaloBob says:

    100% negative in the comments today. Time to be a buyer?

  14. rktbrkr says:

    Apparently the Club Euro bureaucrats are on August vacation while Italy rapidly approaches meltdown temps. The Big I in PIIGS could be the Euro show stopper.

  15. wally says:

    Here’s a great idea: let’s have a kindergarten-level debate about the “debt limit” and then all go home while Rome burns. Effing bastards.

  16. GrafSchweik says:

    Mayor Quimby, did you lose your job or are you off your meds?

    For your information, Concerned Neighbor nailed it and, for the umpteenth time in the last week or three since you’ve started blessing us with your inanities multiple times per thread, you have got it ALL WRONG.

    Unfortunately for us, your plutocrat idols are likely to continue having their way and then you’ll get to see first hand just how wrong you are.

    Or could it be that you are one of those clowns who thinks Pinochet’s Chile or Galtierri’s Argentina was the sine qua non of democracy?? I wonder…
    —-
    These numbers don’t surprise me one bit as I live much closer to the bottom of the socio/economic pyramid than most of the participants in these discussions. In fact, as far I can see, it’s been that way or heading that way since Ronnie RayGun was dozing in the Oval Office.

    To stay comfortably middle class and be able to afford a home on an average salary has required a dual income household for one helluva a long time.

    My father bought a house in a Boston suburb in 1959 for $17,500 on annual pay of $7500. He could support a stay-a-home wife and bring up 2 sons. Nearly 50 years later, making 6x as much and wondering when the firm would send my job offshore, I did not live nearly as well.
    —-
    Quimby, someday people in shoes like mine are going to start looking for people like you. They will not want to shake your hand…

  17. mark says:

    http://www.j-bradford-delong.net/Economists/keynes.html

    “We see, therefore, that rising prices [inflation] and falling prices [deflation] each have their characteristic disadvantage. The Inflation which causes the former means Injustice to individuals and to classes–particularly to investors; and is therefore unfavorable to saving. The Deflation which causes falling prices means Impoverishment to labor and to enterprise by leading entrepreneurs to restrict production, in their endeavor to avoid loss to themselves; and is therefore disastrous to employment…. Thus Inflation is unjust and Deflation is inexpedient. Of the two, perhaps Deflation is, if we rule out exaggerated inflations such as that of Germany [in 1923-1924], the worse; because it is worse, in an impoverished world, to provoke unemployment than to disappoint the rentier. But it is not necessary that we should weight one evil against the other. It is easier to agree that both are evils to be shunned.”

    I do hope that all of you who think that gov’t austerity NOW is a good idea are rentiers and not dependent on employment to pay your bills for in the latter case you will indeed be “fukked”.

  18. Petey Wheatstraw says:

    Concerned Neighbour:

    Well said.

  19. Petey Wheatstraw says:

    While the wealthy get a vacation from taxation:

    http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2011/08/millionaire_tax_rates.html

    The “Jjob creators” need a tax break, my achin’ ass. The next politician or pundit to us that term should be flogged in public. Literally.

  20. MayorQuimby says:

    Amazing.

    I want everyone to read this quote:

    “Mayor Quimby, did you lose your job or are you off your meds?

    For your information, Concerned Neighbor nailed it and, for the umpteenth time in the last week or three since you’ve started blessing us with your inanities multiple times per thread, you have got it ALL WRONG.

    Unfortunately for us, your plutocrat idols are likely to continue having their way and then you’ll get to see first hand just how wrong you are.

    Or could it be that you are one of those clowns who thinks Pinochet’s Chile or Galtierri’s Argentina was the sine qua non of democracy?? I wonder…
    —-
    These numbers don’t surprise me one bit as I live much closer to the bottom of the socio/economic pyramid than most of the participants in these discussions. In fact, as far I can see, it’s been that way or heading that way since Ronnie RayGun was dozing in the Oval Office.

    To stay comfortably middle class and be able to afford a home on an average salary has required a dual income household for one helluva a long time.

    My father bought a house in a Boston suburb in 1959 for $17,500 on annual pay of $7500. He could support a stay-a-home wife and bring up 2 sons. Nearly 50 years later, making 6x as much and wondering when the firm would send my job offshore, I did not live nearly as well.
    —-
    Quimby, someday people in shoes like mine are going to start looking for people like you. They will not want to shake your hand…”

    1. I have not got anything “wrong”. I see our credit ponzi having reached its limit and collapsing. I see no way to perpetuate said ponzi other than to embrace the defaults built up in the system and let prices drop to a point at which people can actually afford to work and live. I’m not sure where you think I’ve ‘got it wrong’ but by all means, bring forth your case and we will debate it if you like.

    2. WTF is the threat crap? You don’t know me from Adam. I might be worth 7 figures or I might be broke. At any rate – what the hell did I do to you to deserve a THREAT?!

    3. Plutocrat idols? I’ve railed against every connected politician and bankster on both sides of the aisle for years now. I saw credit getting out of hand in 2001!!!! I was expecting a Depression back then!

    4. Just so we’re crystal clear, dipwad. I’m against all corruption, an end to the current SEC, all TBTF banks, prosecutions for corrupted politicians, an end to lobbying, the beginning of a search for a solution to outsourcing of jobs, a smaller more efficient gvmt with a balanced budget amendment and a dizzying array of other reforms. I think workers in this country have been ROYALLY shafted and I HOPE they reach the point at which they are ready to force some real change upon the system.

    5. Expect MORE SHAFTING in the form of more QE (aka higher prices for everything thanks to a collapsing dollar), higher taxes (to pay rich bondholders), fewer jobs and a much lower standard of living. Don’t like it? Get off your ass and do something about it. Oh and thank your parents for this mess while you’re at it. They are a BIG part of this epic disaster.

  21. whskyjack says:

    The 10 yr treasury note was down to 2.29%. over 10 years that is free money
    Why would anyone advocate turning down free money especially when there are infrastructure needs and some of them can be payed off in 10 years. Like sidewalks in the central city.
    Jack

  22. MayorQuimby says:

    Because you’re wasting that money on paving sidewalks that won’t necessarily generate any economic improvement whatsoever???

    I have to be amazed that so many think the anomaly that was the 20th century created certain rules that will work forever more.

    I have to be amazed that people think BORROWING a million bucks to pave a road will bring about economic bliss.

    SNAP those fingers – INSTANT know-it-all prosperity.

    I’ll tell you all what. When the “all we have to do is” crap stops, we’ve turned a corner.

    There IS NO EASY WAY OUT.

    Say it to yourself a thousand times until it sinks in.

    NONE.

    NADA.

  23. MayorQuimby says:

    hey Whiskeyjack-

    Here are satellite photos of ENTIRE CITIES with no one in them:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1339536/Ghost-towns-China-Satellite-images-cities-lying-completely-deserted.html

    You think they turned a profit on those cities???? Well, at least China builds them with our debt interest.

    We have to BORROW money at interest to waste it.

    2.4% is not an easy money situation. It is a ‘things are dire’ indicator.

  24. whskyjack says:

    LOL
    Don’t you have a term paper to do? Summer school?

    Jack

  25. whskyjack says:

    As a person who has spent the last 40 years or so hunting up opportunities, I’ve spent a lot of time on the prayer side of the bankers desk. Trust me if someone is offering you money at 2 and half percent you take it. Something will come along to make a dollar on.

    Jack

  26. jaymaster says:

    The bureaucrats in the US government lie to us.

    Probably hoping it will help them keep their jobs.

    Just like in China.

  27. Clem Stone says:

    Everyone loves the concept of reversion to the mean except when it comes to the American standard of living vs a whole lotta 3rd world countries. We’re still financially way better off than most of the other people on this planet who, believe it or not, are just as “good” and deserving as we are.

    I also make maybe 6x what my father made and yet I can’t afford to buy the house I grew up in. But it wasn’t all peaches & cream back then! Nobody had a freaking granite counter top etc etc etc etc.

  28. MayorQuimby says:

    “Trust me if someone is offering you money at 2 and half percent you take it. Something will come along to make a dollar on.”

    Perhaps. Perhaps not.

  29. GrafSchweik says:

    Quimby, you dufus.

    You’re the obverse of Cognos: neither of you can recognize your own cognitive dissonance.

    Of course I don’t know you. And even if I did I wouldn’t come after you. What good would that do? That’s why I said ‘people like me’ although I might have been clearer if I had written, ‘people in shoes like mine’.

    The last thing we need is violence, but if you spent more time cracking the history books you’d know that situations like the one we are in are not socially sustainable, that they end in revolution, usually violent ones. And as far as the so-called advanced democracies go, our society is the most violent with the greatest disparity of wealth.

    The tumble of the Eastern European oligarchies 22 years ago was a happy exception: how likely are we to repeat that in a country with enough private weapons in circulation to arm every man, woman and child? Where about half the population has an Apocalypse Complex? And the 2nd Amendment is considered the 11th Commandment?

    You’ve got part of argument–about bailouts and bankers right; but you’ve got your current ideé fixe about balancing budgets tragically, bullheadedly wrong.

    That’s what happens when we leave the real world for the cloud-coo-coo-land of theory. When, as inevitably happens, the reigning theory starts looking like Swiss Cheese, human beings get pissed at having been taken for a ride. They do not say, ‘Well, thank you very much for that valuable lesson.’

    I wasn’t threatening, I was warning. In a state of social and political breakdown, no one is safe, including me and mine. Do you really want that? Because that’s where we’re heading.

    This summer I’ve driven 9,000 miles from east to west coast and back again, visiting every region except the upper Plains and deep South: it is getting ugly out there. [After the poverty I saw in central and north central New Mexico I don't believe the unemployment numbers I saw on a recent post either]. The American sheeple can put up with a lot, but some day even they will have had enough and then watch out.

    I don’t want it to come to that; but it looks more and more like it will. Until then we’ll look more and more like your garden variety South American dictatorship/oligarchy circa 1950-90.

    So it goes.

  30. gloppie says:

    I’m in the South, and it’s ugly here too. I’m tired and fed up, my ass is sore from the last decade or so since I moved in the U.S.
    Coming from Europe where guns are considered anywhere from dangerous tools at one end of the scale, to downright evil things at the other end, I am scared shitless of the times they-are-comin’. The last thing we need is violence for sure, and that’s exactly why violence is what we’re gonna get. Everybody is armed to the teeth down here, and everybody is only about “me and my family first”. As soon as the top .1% heads for their indefinite cruise, or the space station who knows, it’ll be Road Warrior in 3d in your backyard without Netflix, no popcorn either. Right now I am closely watching the Danziger Bridge trial, because the outcome will reflect our prospect; If the judgement is that the law applies even when there’s chaos, we still may have a chance. If the judgement is “the law applies but…..” then all bets are off. Who know, that may be the spark ala Rodney King.

  31. like the Headline of the Post..
    ~~

    Italy’s GDP Growth Accelerates In Q2
    26 minutes ago

    (RTTNews) – The Italian economy expanded at a faster pace in the second quarter, latest data from the statistical office Istat showed Friday.

    The gross domestic product rose 0.3 percent quarter-on-quarter in the second quarter compared to a 0.1 percent increase in the previous quarter. The figure matched economists’ forecast.

    Year-on-year, GDP rose 0.8 percent in line with expectations. The rate of growth was slower than the 1 percent recorded in the first quarter.

    For comments and feedback: contact editorial@rttnews.com
    ~~

    QOTD: “A gold miner is a liar standing beside a hole in the ground.” —Mark Twain
    ~~

    and, funny(?), the Tempur-pedic Ad–that was scrolling through–~”I have to fight my Cats for it..”

    given the Topic, I was *thinking ~”what? what her Paycheck buys? or, the Friskies that she can, actually, afford?”

  32. JerseyCynic says:

    Hang in there MayorQuimby

    ….”If you think about it, our entire society has evolved around the limitations of the Monkeysphere. There is a reason why all of the really phat-ass nations with the biggest SUV’s with the shiniest 22-inch rims all have some kind of representative democracy (where you vote for people to do the governing for you) and all of them are, to some degree, capitalist (where people actually get to buy property and keep some of what they earn).

    A representative democracy allows a small group of people to make all of the decisions, while letting us common people feel like we’re doing something by going to a polling place every couple of years and pulling a lever that, in reality, has about the same effect as the darkness knob on your toaster. We can simultaneously feel like we’re in charge while being contained enough that we can’t cause any real monkey mayhem once we fly into one of our screeching, arm-flapping monkey frenzies (“A woman showed her boob at the Super Bowl! We want a boob and football ban immediately!”)

    Conversely, some people in the distant past naively thought they could sit all of the millions of monkeys down and say, “Okay, everybody go pick the bananas, then bring them here, and we’ll distribute them with a complex formula determining banana need! Now go gather bananas for the good of society!” For the monkeys it was a confused, comical, tree-humping disaster.

    Later, a far more realistic man sat the monkeys down and said, “You want bananas? Each of you go get your own. I’m taking a nap.” That man, of course, was German philosopher Hans Capitalism.

    As long as everybody gets their own bananas and shares with the few in their Monkeysphere, the system will thrive even though nobody is even trying to make the system thrive. This is perhaps how Ayn Rand would have put it, had she not been such a hateful bitch.

    Then, some time in the Third Century, French philosopher Pierre “Frenchy” LaFrench invented racism…..”

    Read more: What is the Monkeysphere? | Cracked.com http://www.cracked.com/article_14990_what-monkeysphere_p2.html#ixzz1U98DH8gs

  33. Greg0658 says:

    MQ “wasting that money on paving sidewalks that won’t necessarily generate any economic improvement” .. again generally wrong – the government has tax receipts sitting in a computer terminal – why not spend them bytes – churning the economy the best way possible – by taking the bytes and turning them into local jobs buying Made in the USA nails and 2x6s building the forms, maybe buring up a skillsaw, going to lunch at Subway, maybe a splinter in the eye and a trip to the doctor and then finally the locally produced concrete mix comes – and in a week from now a rollerblader can tool around on the wheelchair friendly ramps.
    Bart would love such a playground in his Springfield.

    oh your China sat photo – guess what the Chinese got besides the above with our investment dollars planted on their soil … ok jobs – but EXPERIECE doing a real thing .. experience doesn’t come out of a book – really it doesn’t (or from an episode of the Simpsons)

  34. MayorQuimby says:

    Graf- kiss my tukus. Deficit spending is not the answer and will screw things irrevocably if it has not already done so. You think paying the rent with a credit card will do anything but harm?!

    As for the sheeple….they will screato gvmt to give them “free shit”. But THEY ARE GVMT. Oce again, kiss my tukus if you don’t understand one simple fact – that gvmt has no money and never did. It only allocates money as it comes in. Therefore it is now borrowing on our behalf because it is broke. Going deeper into debt will only bring the end faster.

    And the we all get to enjoy watching millions of idiots like you protest and scream for FREE SHIT.

    Just admit that you want someone to forcefully steal from John to pay you and I will be quiet.

    Greg- you’re incorct if you think paving a road is a sure winner. It could be and it might not be. But going deeper into debt to build infrastructure when you have no idea if said infrastructure will even be used is folly.

    LET ME SPELL THIS OUT FOR ALL OF YOU….WE ARE IN TOO MUCH EFFING DEBT BOTH PUBLICY AND PERSONALLY….THERE IS NO ROOM TO PUMP ANY MORE EFFING LEVERAGE INTO THIS DEBT LADEN SYSTEM BUT PLEASE DO TRY SO WE CAN END THIS CHARADE SOONER RATHER THAN LATER

  35. whskyjack says:

    “You think paying the rent with a credit card will do anything but harm”

    Yeah but when some one can’t tell the difference between renting the house and building the house it is a little hard to have a rational discussion with them.

    Jack

  36. wally says:

    “But going deeper into debt to build infrastructure when you have no idea if said infrastructure will even be used…”

    Predicting the end of civilization now?

  37. rtt is on a roll ..

    like above,

    U.S. Economy Adds 117,000 Jobs In July, More Than Expected
    5 minutes ago

    (RTTNews) – The U.S. Economy added 117,000 jobs in July, a more robust figure than most economists had predicted, according to figures released Friday by the Labor Department.

    The job growth was entirely in the private sector, with new 154,000 private sector jobs offsetting a decline of 37,000 government positions lost.

    Furthermore, the unemployment rate, measured by a different survey than job growth, ticked down slightly to 9.1 percent, while most economists had expected it to hold level at 9.2 percent.

    Health care employment grew by 31,000 jobs in July, with the retail sector adding 26,000 new jobs.

    Manufacturing jobs also grew, with nearly all of the 24,000 new jobs coming in the manufacturing of durable goods, according to the DOL.

    However, government employment continued to contract in July, shedding 37,000 positions, 23,000 at the state and local level.

    The average workweek held relatively level at 34.3 hours, according to DOL statistics, while average hourly earnings ticked up 10 cents to $23.13.

    Previous estimates of June job growth were revised up to 46,000, more than double the 18,000 initially reported.

    For comments and feedback: contact editorial@rttnews.com

  38. GrafSchweik says:

    Quimby—

    [Cue puckered lips & smacking sound]

    I give up!! LOL

    I have indulged in too much sandbox behavior in the last 15 hours. Between tiredness from a long time on the road and your recent fixation on the debt ceiling, I had forgotten several of your earlier posts. I should have apologized in my second one last night. Consider it done now. [Note to self: do not post unless bright eyed and bushy tailed].

    I still don’t agree about the debt ceiling issue, but it is pointless to act out a digital, hairless ape version of the scene at the waterhole at the start of Kubrick’s 2001.

    If Fate humorously causes our paths to cross, the first rounds are on me.

    We’ll find out soon enough what’s in store and we’ll deal with it, for better or worse, one way or another.

    Cheers–

  39. wally says:

    GrafSchweik,
    Quimby thinks it would be foolish to use 2% money to build roads and bridges when, instead, we could wait a few years and do it with 5% money.
    When that happens, guess what side of the fence he’ll be barking from?

  40. DeDude says:

    @GrafSchweik

    MayorQuimby’s opinions are actually not all standard right wing, although he use right wing approaches. He starts with the conclusion and work back to find arguments, ignoring any and all inconvenient truths in order to hold on to those opinions. He has this obsessive-compulsive opinion about deficit spending/debt and there is no way to engage him in rational debate on that. He knows what he knows, what he knows, what he knows – and he will neither acknowledge nor get into debate about facts that contradicts his opinions – becuase he knows what he knows what he knows. I guess he gets some kind of endorphine rush each time he with great conviction has stated his obsessions, in spite of clear evidence that nobody at TBP is stupid enough the get convinced by someone who cannot make their case. In his little world he is a genius and all others are the fools that cannot understand his genius anyway, so he has no reason to do anything but state his opinions as facts. Whenever he has tried to move out of that secure little shell, he has found that his opinions cannot handle the tough environment out there so he quickly draws back into that shell where he knows what he knows what he knows ……..