My wife is a big Elizabeth Warren fan:

 


Source: Online MBA Programs

 


Warren Quote
Created by: OnlineMBAPrograms.org

Category: Consumer Spending, Credit, Politics

Please use the comments to demonstrate your own ignorance, unfamiliarity with empirical data and lack of respect for scientific knowledge. Be sure to create straw men and argue against things I have neither said nor implied. If you could repeat previously discredited memes or steer the conversation into irrelevant, off topic discussions, it would be appreciated. Lastly, kindly forgo all civility in your discourse . . . you are, after all, anonymous.

72 Responses to “Quoting Elizabeth Warren”

  1. Bob A says:

    exactly

  2. ancientone says:

    The fact that this even has to said is a sad reminder of how far our society has fallen into Randian idiocy. This used to be common knowledge, but thirty years of “one percent” false propaganda has created a totally false mindset that we don’t need government.

  3. techy says:

    Blasphemy. 50% of the country dont believe this and you will be silenced come tuesday.

  4. Fred C Dobbs says:

    The claim is taxpayers (not everyone) paid for the police, firemen, teachers, and roads off which I (and others) got rich. Once upon a time, not more than 150 years ago, the only thing taxpayers paid for were police. Firemen were usually voluntary collections of men who came became firemen when a fire started. They were paid full-time to wait for a fire to break out. Teachers were paid from tuition and school fees received from students. Roads were often privately funded and paid out of tolls. Then SOCIALISM stuck its greedy snout in, and took over. Now, we have firemen being paid to do nothing while waiting 24-7 for a fire to breakout for 25-30 years, teachers being paid full-time for working less than half of a business year for about 25 years, and inefficient government contractors building and maintaining roads at the expense of all taxpayers when they could be paid by the road users, rather than taxpayers. We suffer from GOVERNMENT getting into BUSINESS, something for which Government is least-qualified and least-experienced to get into. Apart from protecting us from our enemies foreign and domestic, we don’t need Government. We got along fine until SOCIALISM was introduced in the 2d half of the 19th century. The argument also ignores the fact that GOVERNMENT benefits from paying for these services, since the taxpayers (as a whole) make more money which Government can take away and spend on itself. GOVERNMENT makes more money from a gallon of gas than the people who look for it, find it, extract it, transport it, refine it, and put it in your gas tank.
    Eliz Warren is full of it.

  5. brewtown says:

    Thank you for giving her voice the coverage it needs. Thank You.

  6. teraflop says:

    Most business decisions are made based on marginal information and decisions, not absolute. Entities I’m familiar with all made the same calculation: what investment do I need to make *today* to generate the revenue I expect. Sure, ~236 years of incremental decisions over time have been made by previous companies/governments and we’re all standing/squatting on the shoulders of giants. Those are sunk costs, we don’t pay for them, there’s no expectation of guilt, and no expectation of “paying back” because that’s what bonds and existing tax structures are for. So the argument that we owe something for tangible infrastructure invested in the past is not germane. The argument to pay forward is equally fallacious. Try opening or operating a green field manufacturing entity anywhere in rural America. The combined actions of all tiers of government already ensure that the entity pays forward; this is not a slur, this is fact. It’s only when raiders scoop assets and employ means of labor/enviro-arbitrage when things go bad. And then paying forward doesn’t stop the raid, it ends up acting as a tax (and very likely is managed like one). Instead, that’s when government needs to be involved to ensure the level playing field isn’t weighed in on domestic employers but instead on countries exploiting sometimes-purposed loopholes in our trade regulations.

    Every single paper mill, gas-fired generator plant, logistics enterprise, and trading house I’ve been involved with over the decades has always had to pave its own roads, lay down its own fiber, enhance its own railroad, build its own effluent system, fund its needs, and manage risk on its way to success. That’s directed closely-watched, audited investor cash, not line items in some omnibus bill, funded by means unknown during appropriations without independent measure of merit.

  7. Bob A says:

    Pave it’s own roads? Lay it’s own fiber? You mean the last mile(s) from the Interstate? You built the infrastructure that get’s your product to it’s customers. That’s patently ridiculous. It’s amazing any kind of business can actually be built and succeed with such self deluded people at the helm.

  8. Steve Duncan says:

    Warren is a socialist just like Obama…….both are clueless on what it takes to create jobs since neither have really worked for a living. Scott Brown grew up in my home town in Massachusetts. He votes for what’s best for main street and is probably one of the most bipartisan Senators in Washington. Warren isn’t from Mass, and she doesn’t really care about the people in our state……she has her own socialist agenda. She is a elitist shrill and will be extremely partisan, not getting anything done…..so she would fit right in with the current idiots. With the likes of Obama and Warren in power, we will end up like France with a tax rate of 75%, driving small business into the ground. I voted for Obama the first time…..not this time since we did not get the “Change” he promised. Obama appointed a corrupt Secretary of Treasury (just like Bush Jr did). Obama continued bailing out the Wall Street Banks that helped cause the financial collapse, at the expense of Main Street. Independents put Obama in office…….I’m hoping they take him out.

  9. queenbee1 says:

    As the blogger says “Please use the comments to demonstrate your own ignorance, unfamiliarity with empirical data, ability to repeat discredited memes, and lack of respect for scientific knowledge. Also, be sure to create straw men and argue against things I have neither said nor even implied. Any irrelevancies you can mention will also be appreciated. Lastly, kindly forgo all civility in your discourse . . . you are, after all, anonymous.”

    You have done well.

  10. Mr Reality says:

    You married wisely then.

  11. Steve Duncan says:

    Hey queenbee1….if Barry wants to put political quotes in his Economic blog for one candidate, then it’s fair game…..anyone can also be political and comment as they see fit. And, at least I use my real name……you use a fairy name…….queenbee?………..Please!

  12. Oral Hazard says:

    @teraflop: Yeah, most businesses I know have their own standing armies and postal services. They also mint currency.

    To quote Bugs Bunny: What a maroon.

  13. Joe_in_Indiana says:

    As a reply, watch this and keep an open mind.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=EXvYNQIUvi4

  14. ellsworth says:

    For all of those people that think we should raise taxes:

    1.) Do you believe your own taxes should be raised? Or do you believe taxes should only be raised on people wealthier than you?

    2.) How you ever voluntarily sent a check to the IRS/US Treasury, because you believe you hadn’t paid enough?

  15. Mr.Tuxedo says:

    Those who say it takes a village will raise others to become reviled.

  16. AndrewShaw says:

    I’m not quite with her on all that, although not too far behind.

    I really enjoyed her “two-income trap”, it made a lot of sense.

  17. thenoz says:

    Forget whether or not Warren checked the Native American box when she applied to Penn and Harvard. The fact that she will not open personnel records to settle the allegation strikes me as similar to Obama not releasing his records at Occidental College about whether he checked the foreign student box or why two Democrat senators would not say whether the Bengazi drone was armed or not.
    Since these questions can be answered very easily leads one to not believe anything that comes out of their mouths.

    Since it has been proven that Warren plagiarized recipes for the POW WOW CHOW cookbook, does it not seem possible that she lied to Harvard about her background as an Indian? Especially as Harvard was under pressure to hire minorities at the Law school.

    I have listened to her and it supports the idea that faculties at major institutions are way overpaid.

  18. mpappa says:

    Class warfare has done nothing to improve economic outcomes for the impoverished. It has created some good paying government and government funded non profit jobs.

  19. pmorrisonfl says:

    ellsworth: Yes and yes.

    I realize that a sovereign with its own currency isn’t a household, but it does seem reasonable to me that revenue and spending should balance. It doesn’t seem reasonable to me to gut relatively balanced programs like Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid to supply completely out of balance programs like Defense without some increase in revenue. Noting that our tax rates are now roughly what Mexico’s and Turkey’s are, and that they don’t have as many aircraft carriers, it seems reasonable to me to look at some combination a) cutting defense spending to something resembling what is required and we can support (admittedly shrinking GDP to do so) and b) increasing taxes to the point where it pays for all those nice shiny toys.

  20. Joe Friday says:

    ellsworth,

    1.) Do you believe your own taxes should be raised? Or do you believe taxes should only be raised on people wealthier than you?

    When traveling, if you wrongly turn South on a road when you were supposed to turn North, do you stop, turn around and go the other way ?

    According to the independent non-partisan Congressional Budget Office, the public policy that is overwhelmingly responsible for our massive current and mid-term future federal deficits & debt is the numerous rounds of tax cuts that overwhelmingly benefited the Rich & Corporate enacted by Chimpy Bush and the Republican Congressional Majority.

    Why would we not reverse the failed policies that caused the problem ?

    2.) How you ever voluntarily sent a check to the IRS/US Treasury, because you believe you hadn’t paid enough?

    This is silliness.

    Many players in the NBA are advocating that the height of the baskets should be raised because they believe it would improve the game for various reasons. Your question is like asking only those players who advocate raising the height of the basket to have to shoot to a higher basket, whereas the other players could still shoot to a lower basket.

    Dumb as a post.

  21. ThatsNotAll says:

    Barry,

    What is your wife’s interpretation of what Warren is saying with that quote?

    Is she advocating socialism wherein the profits earned by the few must be shared with the many?

    Is she advocating cronyism wherein government allows great profits for a few in return for government officials having their own cut – think of Fannie Mae and the train of Clinton officials who made bank taking a turn in an executive position at that GMO.

    Does your wife appreciate that Warren’s quote fails to explain how prosperity is created? To create wealth you must have trade and to have abundant trade there must exist many products that people want to have. Building roads for the sake of having roads will not create wealth. You need products.

    Who is going to build great products in the world created by Warren & your wife?

    Who is going to provide innovative, satisfying services in the world defined by Warren & your wife?

    How much of a cut can others take from the profits generated by a good idea before the person with that good idea decides it just isn’t worth doing?

    Please discuss.

  22. eddiefinn says:

    Hey, Lie-a-watha — please go back to Oklahoma.

    Businesses “pay it forward” by increasing the tax base many-fold through job creation. Higher taxes hinder job creation — you can’t tax your country out of a mid-cycle slowdown. You “Limousine Liberals” are all alike. You want to grow taxes? lower them for businesses to encourage job growth and attract the world’s greatest companies to set up shop here. How about allowing US corportations to repatriate foreign profits, as long as they can prove they are using them to grow business? That’s how you get more tax revenues — volune over margin.

    Your campaign attempts to scare women into thinking that your opponent will take away all of their reproductive rights is fatally flawed. The guy lives with three women — he’d be skinned alive!!! Your attempts to scare everyone into thinking your opponent is a right-of-center stooge for the republican party are not only an insult to one of the most independent-minded individuals in the Senate, and the second most bipartisan member of the Senate, but it’s an insult to all of us charged with deciding this race at the polls. Underestimate our intelligence at your own peril.

    You would lead us to believe that nothing is possible without “the state,” but that is so very socialist. Remember, any government big enough to give you everything you can ever need is big enough to take everything away.

    And another thing — I ain’t buyin’ your “common folk” schtick. The Globe reported you make somewhere north of $600 large, and your husband is probably in the same ballpark. You know nothing about living paycheck-to-paycheck, Granny.

  23. marktwain says:

    There is no doubt that “we are all interwoven…” as Marcus Aurelius said. But it is a logical error to move from an assertion of our interdependence — which is incontrovertible — to the proposition that the government is the best and highest mechanism to manage that interdependence. Rather than Warren’s communist approach (small “c” as in “I’m from the government and I’m here to create a community”), we should look to Locke, Rousseau, Hobbes and Adam Smith, who all posited that the “Leviathan” of government intervention should only be deployed when citizens are not able to organize and manage their own communities. For instance, when racism is allowed or when abject poverty prevails or when civil order breaks down. Or when there are clear economies of scale (one unified military vs a bunch of local militia).

  24. Joe Friday says:

    mpappa,

    Class warfare has done nothing to improve economic outcomes for the impoverished.

    Why would it help the “impoverished” ?

    Warren Buffet:

    There’s class warfare all right, but it’s my class, the rich class, that’s making war, and we’re winning.

  25. Joe Friday says:

    eddiefinn,

    Higher taxes hinder job creation

    Evidence ?

    you can’t tax your country out of a mid-cycle slowdown.

    It’s worked like a charm every time.

    You want to grow taxes? lower them for businesses to encourage job growth and attract the world’s greatest companies to set up shop here.

    If that were true, we should have been BOOMING during Chimpy Bush’s two terms. Instead we got two recessions, an economic depression, and tens of millions of lost jobs.

    How about allowing US corportations to repatriate foreign profits

    Scam.

    How about US corporations pay their damn taxes and stop relying on Corporate Welfare ?

  26. the pearl says:

    Warren puts forth a junior high level argument. Only political partisan can’t see through the silliness. Of course nobody builds a business by itself. Warren exploits the populist rhetoric and plays the “business takes without giving back” card. It is simply the flip side of the “all welfare people are lazy” mantra from the right. Her and her ilk are simply the Grover Norquist of their team. Shame on them.

  27. Joe Friday says:

    Actually, Bill Gates father has been making the very same excellent point that Elizabeth Warren did for YEARS.

  28. MiloD says:

    I weep for my country.
    There is no civil discourse only “fans” cheering on their side to beat the shit out of the other side.
    I don’t know where it leads but it’s hard to see it leading anywhere good.
    Battle lines drawn, each side convinced that the other is stupid and fundamentally wrong.

    You’re either with us or against us.

    Fuck it, I’m voting for Jill Stein. That oughta get everybody pissed off at me.

  29. the pearl says:

    What is the conduit for improving inequality if tax rates are raised? What is the plan? What are the new programs proposed? Will they work and if so based on what research? Reducing the deficit, shoring up healthcare, securing already existing social programs? Those are nothing more than accounting transactions from one side of the ledger to the other. As of the now the tax rate increases are the equivalent of simply cutting the rich guys steak in half and throwing it in the garbage. The end result is the impoverished guy is still starving. The left has packaged the tax increases as a panacea for all the country’s ills. What poppycock. But hey, it feels good and makes sense to the home crowd. It is an incredible con job.

  30. Joe Friday says:

    Actually, our most economically prosperous periods during the 20th Century were when the top tax rate was 87%, 91%, and even 94%.

    Poppycock ?

    Nope.

  31. thegreatwhitenorth says:

    Unbelievable! If the government exists but no successful businesses exist exactly how many roads would we have…or hospitals…or how many armies? Do you really think that government by itself can accomplish anything? As in anything? I don’t know how any concept could be clearer. There is no chicken and egg angle to this. It’s mind boggling that anyone could possibly buy into her line of thinking…but of course it’s the flavour of the day and it’ll be interesting to see the end result.

  32. the pearl says:

    @ Joe Friday

    Good point. Our most economically prosperous periods where also when our women ran around and did chores all day in high heels and aprons and stayed married for financial reasons and could only dream of a life with orgasms and a college degree. Maybe we can convince all women to go back to scrubbing floors, blacks to drank out of separate water fountains, and once again white men can dominate every facet of life. We can also send the Asians back home and the Latino’s across the border. All the white, male unemployed mortgage brokers, real estate agents, appraisers, and stucco experts can pick up the job slack. Unemployment will plummet to 2%.

    You live in a one variable world.

  33. Joe Friday says:

    thegreatwhitenorth,

    There is no chicken and egg angle to this.

    Exactly.

    More than 73% of our national economy is Consumer Spending. We are a DEMAND economy. That’s why failed Supply-side economics is a dismal miserable failure each and every time it is enacted.

    Businesses do not create jobs, consumer demand creates jobs, and consumers are overwhelmingly workers.

    Throwing money at the Rich & Corporate has never worked economically.

  34. Joe Friday says:

    the pearl,

    Good point. Our most economically prosperous periods where also when our women ran around and did chores all day in high heels and aprons

    Wrong.

    The other most economically prosperous period was after taxes were INCREASED on the Rich & Corporate in the early ’90s (not to mention the federal budget surpluses).

    Ya got any more bumper sticker nonsense ?

  35. ellsworth says:

    pmorrisonfl: I agree 110% with a balanced budget. However, given that federal spending nearly doubled in the last 10 years and in my opinion, we don’t seem to be getting 2x the services/benefits, I’d rather see spending cuts than tax rate hikes (on anyone).

    Joe Friday: You do a great job of not directly answering questions, as well as regurgitating nonsense…you should run for political office.

    Keep in mind the difference between where your federal tax $$ go and your state tax $$. Most of what Elizabeth Warren mentions (education, roads, police, etc.) are funded at the state level. The majority of Fed $$ go to welfare, healthcare, and defense spending.

  36. thegreatwhitenorth says:

    Again, unbelievable Joe. Where do the consumers get their money? The concept is way too simple. Is your contention that consumers magically conjure up money and thus business is irrelevant to econimic prosperity. Why don’t we just make business illegal. Then your consumers can buy from your government and everything will be bliss. Sounds like a great place to live.

  37. the pearl says:

    @Joe Friday,

    Seriously Joe, have you ever considered that the link between tax rates and economic growth is weak and that larger, mostly unmeasurable, and uncontrollable forces are contributors, particularly given the global linkage now, even compared to the early 90′s, let alone the 50′s? Your claim would not even pass the basic junior high science fair requirements.

  38. Joe Friday says:

    ellsworth,

    I agree 110% with a balanced budget … I’d rather see spending cuts than tax rate hikes (on anyone).

    Just goes to show how uninformed you are. As I’ve previously delineated:

    You could eliminate ALL non-defense discretionary spending –

    Eliminate all the air traffic controllers and shut down all the airports, shut down the entire federal prison system (and release all the prisoners), shut down the federal court system and eliminate the federal marshals, shut down the Justice Department along with the FBI and the ATF, shut down the customs service and eliminate the border patrol and Coast Guard, and shut down the CIA/NSA/DIA/Homeland Security

    – and STILL not even come close to balancing the federal budget.

    Besides, why would we cut spending to address the federal budget when the deficits & debt are as a result of plummeting income tax revenue from the numerous rounds of tax cuts that overwhelmingly benefited the Rich & Corporate ?

    Joe Friday: You do a great job of not directly answering questions, as well as regurgitating nonsense…you should run for political office.

    Can’t defend your assertions, eh ?

    Most of what Elizabeth Warren mentions (education, roads, police, etc.) are funded at the state level.

    Like the federal highway system, the federal airports system, and more ?

  39. Joe Friday says:

    thegreatwhitenorth,

    Why don’t we just make business illegal.

    Gee, another one that can’t defend their ridiculous assertions.

  40. Bill Wilson says:

    Liberals should avoid making this argument. It’s too easily taken to it’s logical conclusion. That you didn’t really earn what you worked for, so the government has the right to take it from you.

    Liberals should instead focus on why a lifetime of hard work is deserving of benefits like social security and medicare. Caring for the welfare of others is a basic human value as well as a Christian value. It has nothing to do with who paid for what.

  41. Joe Friday says:

    the pearl,

    Seriously Joe, have you ever considered that the link between tax rates and economic growth is weak…

    Nope.

    Have you ever considered the supposed link between low taxes and economic growth, job creation, and sunshine and lollipops, HAS NEVER OCCURRED, all the evidence is to the contrary, and is FANTASY ?

  42. the pearl says:

    @ Joe Friday,

    At no time in this thread I have advocated tax cuts or any type of supply-side economic theory.

  43. Joe Friday says:

    the pearl,

    As of the now the tax rate increases are the equivalent of simply cutting the rich guys steak in half and throwing it in the garbage.

  44. the pearl says:

    @ Joe Friday,

    You obviously have a reading comprehension problem.

  45. ilsm says:

    Someone brought up Warren’s native American “issue”.

    I can bring up Scott Brown the make believe veteran. One Brown ad in Boston shows his kids pinning on a shoulder board with his rank on his dress uniform. I doubt he has BDU’s.

    Lt Col Brown has served his military career in the JAG corps of the Massachussets National Guard.

    The extent of Brown’s military adventures: dressing for a court martial, and helping guard soldiers write wills on their way to Iraq.

    More experience than Ryan, and Romney.

  46. thegreatwhitenorth says:

    Joe, you sound like a child with your responses.

    “Gee, another one that can’t defend their ridiculous assertions.”

    I did defend my point. I don’t know how consumers and governments exist without business first. You talk as though business is evil. If only consumers and governments can kill them by taxing them to death we’ll all be better off. It just doesn’t make sense. Without viable business everything else dies. People leave. They go to where they have a chance. This has happened throughout history and it’s happening today. Where are the youth in Ireland right now?

    Your argument that government creates is ridiculous.

  47. Joe Friday says:

    the pearl,

    You obviously have a reading comprehension problem.

    I’ll allow others to decide who has the “problem”.

  48. Joe Friday says:

    thegreatwhitenorth,

    Joe, you sound like a child with your responses.

    You just can’t handle the truth.

    I did defend my point.

    Not that I noticed.

    You talk as though business is evil.

    You do realize how stupid that looks ?

  49. victor says:

    If my father were still alive he would beat his chest, pull at his beard and lament: God! until when? until when the curse? the curse of the intellectuals socialists?

    Warren would have been a good choice for the Consumer Protection, too bad the Repubs didn’t like her and BO caved. As a junior Senator (if) she’d be OK to bring coffee to Harry Reid…oops! Harry doesn’t drink coffee! What now?

  50. thetruthseeker says:

    Leaving the partisanship out of this, what i find very interesting is this belief that human beings cannot accomplish anything for society except through a centralized bureaucracy (i.e. government) that compels people to participate through the implied threat of force. It is a mindset that seems to believe that human beings could never voluntarily come together and do something positive for their own communities.

    ~~~

    BR: Thats one way to read this. Or, we can recognize that humans are social creatures who work well in groups, whether its family business or government — its our nature to organize ourselves

  51. thegreatwhitenorth says:

    Joe, you believe business is evil and must be taxed to death and you think others look stupid.
    Have you ever worked a day in your life or are you a gov’t supportee…which would mean you live based on my hard work?

  52. DrungoHazewood says:

    Scott Brown is a FIRE economy/big bank douche. Just hope EW is not: maybe she can get together with Sanders or some other left wing crazy and stir up some shit. At this point I’ll take anything.

  53. victor says:

    If this is supposed to make us all feel bad when the income/wealth inequality is exposed then: the problem is falsely identified, the cause is not identified at all and the solution (increase taxes) is a bad one.

    Problem as implied here: the rich are rich and the poor are poor

    Cause of inequality: not explored here

    Solution, wrong: tax hike for the rich

    Problem as it should be identified: why aren’t the poor getting rich since they all want to?

    Causes: a) discrimination based on race, age, sex etc. Still exists? Put policies in place to eliminate
    b) education gap: fix education, start with the union, c) cronyism: stop it d) ability, luck, risk taking: we know the answer, not all of us can be Steve Jobs, RIP.

    Solution: grow the economy, grow the pie’cause taking from the rich and giving to the poor doesn’t work. One thing: fix the darn tax code.

  54. victor says:

    @Joe Friday: actually the Federal tax take as % of GDP (not as a % of marginal income) has been CONSTANT at some 18% throughout the past several decades except for recession periods. When state income taxes and all other are added plus what we pay for health care, education, etc, our real average tax rate here in the US, is the same as Finland’s: 60%! as discussed here on this blog when BR visited Finland.

  55. bonalibro says:

    @Fred C. Dobbs,

    I did a ride along years ago, as a reporter, with an ambulance crew from a fire station in Northern Virginia. We rushed from one incident to another all day long, and the firetrucks and firemen mostly went out with us.

    Their job today is saving lives, not just fighting fires, and no volunteer fire company could handle the load in any urban area. Small towns still have volunteers. Big ones not so much. And for very good reason. The firemen are simply too busy to handle another job.

    As for teachers working half the year, vacations amount to fourteen weeks and most of them can’t afford to take their pay in the summertime because they need it all during the school year just to meet normal expenses. They can find other jobs in the summer only if they are lucky, and have a very tough time making ends meet when they do. You try spending 38 weeks in front of dozens of students all day, dealing with the stress, and the discipline problems, and the drain of being the show for eight hours a day, five days a week, and tell me teachers don’t earn their pay or need the time off in summer to recuperate from their labors and recharge their batteries for the fall.

    The problem with Fred C. Dobbs is that he’s just an ignorant gold digger.

  56. denim says:

    It was so refreshing to hear her quote again. The data accentuates the truth of it.

    I loved Cape Ann, Massachusetts. In this age of mendacity, memories of its beauty reminds me that there are better things than conquering the world.

    I look to the prophet Jeremiah for solace in the face of a wealth drenched mendacious clique hell bent on ruling me and the whole world.

    “Blessed is the man that trusts in the LORD, and whose hope the LORD is.
    For he shall be as a tree planted by the waters, and that spreads out her roots by the river, and shall not see when heat comet, but her leaf shall be green; and shall not be careful in the year of drought, neither shall cease from yielding fruit.
    The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
    I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.
    As the partridge sits on eggs, and hatches them not; so he that gets riches, and not by right, shall leave them in the midst of his days, and at his end shall be a fool.”

  57. romerjt says:

    Fred C Dobbs:

    “Roads were often privately funded and paid out of tolls” – but that stopped b/c the private companies could no longer provide reliable, coherent infrastructure for national needs and of course the Interstate system, created by the well known socialist, Eisenhower, remembering his 62 day cross county trip in 1919 over the awful roads. “just fine” – really?.

    “could be paid by the road users, rather than taxpayers” – I bet Fred doesn’t know that a 5 axle truck is the equivalent of thousands (maybe even 9000) cars and if they had pay as they go their expenses would increase exponentially . . tax payers really provide a subsidy to the trucking business. http://www.vabike.org/vehicle-weight-and-road-damage/

    “We suffer from GOVERNMENT getting into BUSINESS”, – maybe so but not in the way Fred suggests . . . In Troy NY the local government provided $300,000 in tax breaks for a barbeque restaurant while laying off teachers. The state has provided $100B of taxpayer money to have Global Foundries locate north of Albany . . this goes on all over the country as business holds localities hostage – no tax break, no infrastructure, won’t come.

    “We got along fine until SOCIALISM was introduced in the 2d half of the 19th century”– Really? The Civil War, 750,000 dead.

    People can have their own opinion but not their own, personal history

  58. Malachi says:

    I would like a smaller government. But I also want acceleration of growth so we can eventually move beyond the hangover of this credit crisis. Austerity in practice does not seem to be helping in Europe so what makes you think it’s going to work here?

    We’ve got to grow and when we get enough momentum we’ve got to cut back spending and increase revenue to pay the piper.

    Also, just really want to encourage everyone NOT to make this a site where the same type of crappy partisan bickering goes on in the comments section a lot of other places. Just share your point of view without attacking or belittling please. I have learned some interesting things in the comments section here but it will quickly get tiring reading comments if it degrades into ranting at the “other side”.

  59. gbgasser says:

    This will never be resolved until we all start viewing the govt/ private sector relationship with a whole new paradigm.

    We need to stop viewing taxes as the means for govt to have the money to buy things but instead they are simply a thermostat to heat up or cool down an economy. We could eliminate most taxes we have now, especially those for SS/Medicare and free consumers up and reduce small business costs by over 7%. The only reason to consider raising those taxes would be if we start running up against a supply constraint in the face of increased consumer spending. This would necessarily mean we never again talk about balanced budget amendments (federal level) or devote even one more paragraph to decrying the “evils” of deficits.

    If we start putting our efforts to discussing real problems, (unemployment rate, supply of necessary resources, health care distribution) instead of made up ones like the number of zeros after the negative sign in the Treasurys’ account at the fed or the number of outstanding federal bonds, we can start getting somewhere.

  60. rationalist says:

    I am curious whether the good professor has ever told the taxpayers of MA that raising taxes on the so-called rich ($250,000 per year does not necessarily = “rich”, thank you very much) will by no means solve our budget issues. Even at the federal level, much less when we add in the developing mess at the state and local levels. Which means the middle class will, in fact, be hit with big tax increases. Her stump speech seems to miss that little point. Not that Scott Brown makes the point either, I might add.

  61. Dima says:

    Barry,

    Are we bored this morning and need some amusement? Or are we sorting out sides? Have a good day sir.

  62. Orange14 says:

    Glad to see that the commentators on ‘The Big Picture’ are as polarized and ignorant as the general electorate. I can’t wait for tomorrow night to arrive!

  63. gbgasser says:

    ” raising taxes on the so-called rich ($250,000 per year does not necessarily = “rich”, thank you very much) will by no means solve our budget issues. ”

    How could that be? Over 70% of income is made by the upper 10% of income earners and they pay over 75% of the income taxes now. The upper 1% makes about 40% of the income and pays over 50% of the taxes. In fact the ONLY place more taxes can come from to balance the budget (not that that needs to be an issue at the federal level) is from the rich. They have virtually all the money!!

    Ah! But there is a solution (outlined above 8:39!) Stop calling for federal balanced budgets! Stop whining about a deficit when unemployment is over 8% (If unemployment gets below 3% we can watch the deficit together) Stop worrying if the feds CAN pay back their debt and worry about whether they WILL (big difference…. voluntary vs involuntary default)

    Oh and stop worryong about the 30-40% of income earners pay no FEDERAL income taxes on their income. You pay no federal income taxes on that portin of your income as well, so if you want people who make 35,000$ to pay some income tax, you will pay tax on your first 35,000 of income as well (which you do not now).

  64. delilo says:

    My wife is a big Mia Love fan.

  65. wally says:

    Nice post.
    It certainly brought out some of the wackos.

  66. Joe Friday says:

    thegreatwhitenorth,

    Joe, you believe business is evil and must be taxed to death and you think others look stupid. Have you ever worked a day in your life or are you a gov’t supportee…which would mean you live based on my hard work?

    You do realize you sound like a loon ?

  67. DeDude says:

    To those “I did it all by my own little selfish” types I suggest you try and go to Yemen and build whatever you build here. You will quickly realize that the legal and societal structures in which a business is build are essential to its success. Yes you put in a lot of hard work and deserve credit for that. Nobody suggests that you should hand it all over as a payment for framework that allowed your hard work to produce said success. But transplanted to Yemen you would be a lot less wealthy on an after tax basis than you are here (and a lot more dead).

  68. victor says:

    Please STOP confusing the two “Socialisms” . True Socialism, as in the second “S” in USSR is an economic AND social system beyond Capitalism, a bridge between Capitalism and Communism. The means of production are in the State’s hands and one party rule is the rule, Cuba anyone? Socialismo o muerte? Now many think France or the Scandinavian countries have embraced Socialism!. Not so. They are as Capitalist (this is an economic system only) as they come but have decided, in democratic ways (caution here) to build an elaborate social safety net financed in part by higher taxes and of course via borrowing, something we here are very familiar with. Any more confusion?

  69. readerOfTeaLeaves says:

    ‘High five’ for that comment, DeDude.
    Spot on.

  70. gbgasser says:

    DeDude, agreed. Good comment

    Victor, couldnt agree more

  71. Biffah Bacon says:

    1. Thank God for Joe Friday
    2. Why can’t the “Me First and the Gimme Gimme” people even come up with rational arguments that support their prejudices? Why can’t empirical science penetrate the bubble? Lafferism and the conservative confidence game since Nixon is costing them money and they refuse to realize it-potholes wreck Porsches as much as Subarus, and having the publicly funded infrastructure of New York shut down can’t be cheap.
    3. History shows again and again…Public spending creates the possibility of increased commerce and economic expansion-why do we allow those who don’t want to pay a proportional share to proceed publicly unshamed with their parasitical shenanigans?
    4. Thank God for Joe Friday.

  72. [...] in a vision, not in circumstances.’ [Reminiscent of Jimmy Valvano's ESPY speech.] Infographic: Quoting Elizabeth Warren | OnlineMBAPrograms.org “There is nobody in this country who got rich on his own. Nobody.” [Provides statistics [...]